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Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E39 (1997 - 2003)

E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 05-14-2016, 07:34 PM
haolibird haolibird is offline
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Exporatory Surgury tomorrow

OK, so on the drive home a few days ago, I he the sound like rapid ticking, and believed it was coming from the car next to me.
After a few lane changes, the sound followed me, and was getting louder.
I pulled over, popped the hood, and a sound like a playing card held to a bicycle wheel was coming from the front of the engine.
AAA was called, and it came home on the TT.
The WP had been replaced recently, and the VP and VC gaskets done.
The mech talked me out of doing the guides, stating that in the M62, guide failure was rare...

Needless to day, I'm pissed at him, but more at myself, if it turns out to be the case.

I'll know more tomorrow, when the oil pan comes off.

I know what rod knock sounds like, so I doubt it's that.

It runs...fine, just sounds like a broken chain saw.

T
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  #2  
Old 05-14-2016, 09:22 PM
MKJS MKJS is offline
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Seems M62 guide failure is a given! Average mileage is 150K. How many miles does your motor have on it?

Wonder if it would be possible to take the U guide out and replace it with a sprocket on a roller bearing.

Jim

Last edited by MKJS; 05-14-2016 at 09:25 PM.
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  #3  
Old 05-14-2016, 09:23 PM
rbail1 rbail1 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haolibird View Post
OK, so on the drive home a few days ago, I he the sound like rapid ticking, and believed it was coming from the car next to me.
After a few lane changes, the sound followed me, and was getting louder.
I pulled over, popped the hood, and a sound like a playing card held to a bicycle wheel was coming from the front of the engine.
AAA was called, and it came home on the TT.
The WP had been replaced recently, and the VP and VC gaskets done.
The mech talked me out of doing the guides, stating that in the M62, guide failure was rare...

Needless to day, I'm pissed at him, but more at myself, if it turns out to be the case.

I'll know more tomorrow, when the oil pan comes off.

I know what rod knock sounds like, so I doubt it's that.

It runs...fine, just sounds like a broken chain saw.

T
I got my buck on finding a whole bunch of little pieces of plastic in the pan. Must not have been a BMW mechanic because the m62 eats guides like candy. It is probably, along with the crap seals in the vanos units, the biggest design flaws of the m62. Oh yeah, and the plastic impeller on the water pump was a hell of an idea too. Count yourself lucky if it didn't jump a tooth on the sprocket and munch the whole deal. That sound is probably the chain rubbing the bottom of the upper timing guide cover.

Last edited by rbail1; 05-14-2016 at 09:29 PM.
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  #4  
Old 05-14-2016, 09:37 PM
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Brandon002 Brandon002 is offline
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Are you sure it wasn't something touching the fan? The chain guides usually don't sound like a playing card held to a bicycle wheel.
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  #5  
Old 05-15-2016, 10:22 AM
haolibird haolibird is offline
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Oil draining now.

No vanos in this engine.
I can't believe I was talked out of replacing the guides...
If it is the guides, There will be scalding Yelp review coming.

Fan is clear.
I was HOPING the WP was the source, but no dice.

More info within the hour.
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  #6  
Old 05-15-2016, 10:54 AM
Barracuz Barracuz is offline
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Relax. There's no need to bash your mechanic. It's not his fault the car is making noise. It's not like he told you that the guides did not need replacing before they failed. And you won't know for sure it's the guides till you actually take a peek behind the covers.

Plus he's a human just like you. He won't know everything and he might forget a couple things. The e39 is becoming an older and rarer car so his knowledge on it might be blurry.
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  #7  
Old 05-15-2016, 11:40 AM
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Brandon002 Brandon002 is offline
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Yeah, you can't really blame the Mechanic for not doing the guides if there were no symptoms present. Imagine if he charged you for doing guides and you didn't need them yet.
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  #8  
Old 05-15-2016, 01:14 PM
haolibird haolibird is offline
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Mystery Solved

Pulled the pan, and my greatest fear realized.

I especially liked the piece in the oil pump.

So, I have my bottle of Super Glue, and am starting the "Fix" process.
All I could think about were the words of that long haired sage who said, "I can fix it! My dad's a TV repairman, and has the ULTIMATE set of tools..."
J. Spicoli

To quote another mental giant: "Shame, Shame, Shame!"

T
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  #9  
Old 05-15-2016, 01:24 PM
sealbeach740 sealbeach740 is offline
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Originally Posted by haolibird View Post
So, I have my bottle of Super Glue, and am starting the "Fix" process.
What kinda fix process are you talking about?



At least you stopped before chain slack jumped gears & caused bent valves.
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  #10  
Old 05-15-2016, 01:48 PM
rbail1 rbail1 is online now
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I got the joke........ you gotta laugh or you'll cry. Too bad you're pre vanos or I would ask if you wanted to go halfers on a timing kit. Sorry I was right.....that truly sucks.
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  #11  
Old 05-15-2016, 02:04 PM
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Good luck on the repair, ugh as an owner of a lowly 6 cylinder car I've read about this issue on the V-8's....ugly.
I know of 2 good Indy Bimmer shops but they are in North County; PM if you'd like details.
Take care/Bill
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  #12  
Old 05-15-2016, 02:40 PM
haolibird haolibird is offline
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Thanks for the moral support, guys.

If the mech won't come to some compromise on the repair...then I think I will give it a go.
I have a loner car, and plenty of time to do the work.
I can call in a pro to set the timing, then put the whole thing back together.

I have been looking for alternate solutions for the replacement for the Ultimate Driving Machine, but I can't bring myself to change!

At least it's clean, and everything should come apart no problem...

Rbail1, good luck with your future project.

Bill, thanks for the thought.
A PM may be coming your way soon.

Regards,
Tom
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  #13  
Old 05-15-2016, 03:24 PM
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Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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Cool... 2,000 miles off from when i did mine,

congrats... your doing it all
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  #14  
Old 05-15-2016, 06:51 PM
StPike75 StPike75 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by haolibird View Post
Pulled the pan, and my greatest fear realized....
T
Same for me on the fear meter. So glad that you were able to pull over before munching the motor.

All the best to the repairs!
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  #15  
Old 05-15-2016, 08:01 PM
haolibird haolibird is offline
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Aye, just short of 200k.
Sorry MKJS, I should have included in the OP

Jon, your opinion on the chunks floating around the oil system?
Back flush?
Multiple oil changes?

StPike, thanks for the encouragement.

F()CK!!!
I should have done it all myself to begin with!
Oh well, I have a boat load of vacation time, so I have a project...

I swear, there was a part of me thinking "Great excuse to get the M-Tech I've always wanted!", but the M5 is enough, really.
Now, I can't believe I was going to kick the 540 to the curb.
It's a paint job (and TCG job) from being perfect!

Thanks again to the Forum!
I appreciate all your interest, and support.

Best,
T
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  #16  
Old 05-16-2016, 01:35 AM
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Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
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Yeah.. you dont have to worry so much about the oil system.. The strainer in the sub caught the big parts..

your dropping the pan anyway,

do the strainer pick up oil ring, the check valve in the oil pump, the oil seperator the valley pan gasket.. all three tensioners main chain, both guides....

you could do the cam chains if you want.. i did not then all the other things you take off.. *valve cover gaskets.. intake. stuff like that...

make sure you replace everything you can when in that timing cover... of you will be pulling the front of that motor again


*does the cross in your direction..... Good luck
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  #17  
Old 05-16-2016, 06:03 AM
MKJS MKJS is offline
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I suggest you do both the osv and the valley pan gasket.

These cars are great to work on. I think you will be able to handle the work just fine and be good for another 200K!!

Jim
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  #18  
Old 05-16-2016, 06:30 AM
MKJS MKJS is offline
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Originally Posted by Brandon002 View Post
Yeah, you can't really blame the Mechanic for not doing the guides if there were no symptoms present. Imagine if he charged you for doing guides and you didn't need them yet.
Brandon002, you usually have very good advice, but I have to disagree with you on this one.

An M62 with almost 200K and original chain guides, the customer want's to do the guides and the mechanic talks him out of it saying M62 chain guides rarely fail. I'd say the mechanic knows nothing about M62 motors and I wouldn't even trust him to do the job. By the time there are symptoms it just might be too late and a motor is needed, not new chain guides.

M62 chain guides always fail, it's just a matter of when, not if, and 150K seems the median number so a motor with almost 200k has been living on borrowed time for a long time.

Jim

Last edited by MKJS; 05-16-2016 at 06:39 AM.
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Old 05-16-2016, 06:54 AM
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How do we know the previous owner of the car didn't have the guides replaced? Bitching about a mechanic not doing thousands of dollars in repairs when there are no symptoms present is hilarious. Especially when people constantly complain about being overcharged.
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:08 AM
MKJS MKJS is offline
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Originally Posted by Brandon002 View Post
How do we know the previous owner of the car didn't have the guides replaced? Bitching about a mechanic not doing thousands of dollars in repairs when there are no symptoms present is hilarious. Especially when people constantly complain about being overcharged.
I'm sure that sounds logical to you or you wouldn't have written it. I see it differently, based on the statement the mechanic made, "M62 chain guides rarely fail." This tells me the mech knows little about the M62 motor.

No symptoms. To me, the symptoms are mileage. By the time it starts making noise or you pull the pan and find chunks of guide in the pan it's a miracle there are no bent valves or holed pistons.

Jim

Last edited by MKJS; 05-16-2016 at 08:10 AM.
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:08 AM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Originally Posted by rbail1 View Post
... the m62 eats guides like candy. It is probably, along with the crap seals in the vanos units, the biggest design flaws of the m62. Oh yeah, and the plastic impeller on the water pump was a hell of an idea too...
This is only to clarify for those that may take part of the info in the quote above and not make the critical distinction... that the M62 engine DOES NOT have VANOS...its the M62TU (1999-2003) engine that has VANOS.
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2016, 08:20 AM
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Brandon002 Brandon002 is offline
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Originally Posted by MKJS View Post
I'm sure that sounds logical to you or you wouldn't have written it. I see it differently, based on the statement the mechanic made, "M62 chain guides rarely fail." This tells me the mech knows little about the M62 motor.

No symptoms. To me, the symptoms are mileage. By the time it starts making noise or you pull the pan and find chunks of guide in the pan it's a miracle there are no bent valves or holed pistons.

Jim
Again, how do we know the previous owner didn't have the guides done? Does the OP have a full service history from new to verify this? Let's know all the facts before we start insulting a mechanic. Maybe he's not a BMW specialist, in which case it would be the OP fault for using someone that knows little about these cars.
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  #23  
Old 05-16-2016, 09:04 AM
MKJS MKJS is offline
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Originally Posted by Brandon002 View Post
Again, how do we know the previous owner didn't have the guides done? Does the OP have a full service history from new to verify this? Let's know all the facts before we start insulting a mechanic. Maybe he's not a BMW specialist, in which case it would be the OP fault for using someone that knows little about these cars.
1. Known History: The PO had the chain guides done at 100K; Mech, "You probably have about 40-50K before we have to think about doing them again.

2. No history: Mech; "With no history and 200K on the clock, we need to think about doing them ASAP. If there bad, you could lose the motor literally, at any moment and we need to error on the side of caution as this is a fatal flaw.

3. What this mech said. "Chain guides? LOL, no worries Mon!! They hardly ever fail in the M62 motor." Oops.

Brandon, disregard history for a moment, just look at the statement, "Chain guards hardly ever fail in the M62 motor." Would you agree with that? Or say the mech was way off base?

Jim

Last edited by MKJS; 05-16-2016 at 09:44 AM.
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  #24  
Old 05-16-2016, 02:55 PM
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Burning2nd Burning2nd is offline
Under the lift arms
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They dont fail twice,
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Last edited by Burning2nd; 05-16-2016 at 03:00 PM.
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  #25  
Old 05-16-2016, 03:09 PM
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Brandon002 Brandon002 is offline
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They dont fail twice,
You put enough mileage on the car and they will. Same with lack of maintenance. You can't say they don't fail twice. If they are known to go at 100-150k, why wouldn't they go again at 200-300k?
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