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E82 / E88 1 Series (2008 - 2013)
BMWs throw back to the iconic 2002, with a renewed form and function. The smallest car in BMW's line up but still packs a punch. Available in coupe or convertible, powered by either an inline 6 in the 128 or the twin turbo rocket sled 135.

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  #1  
Old 06-05-2009, 11:57 PM
speed_330i speed_330i is offline
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Heresy: MazdaSpeed 3 Versus BMW 135i?

Well, just before everyone starts lighting their proverbial torches and getting the hounds ready to have me hung, all I ask is that you give me a 5 minute head start.

In all seriousness, would anyone consider the Mazdaspeed 3 a serious competitor to the BMW 135i.

If I'm not mistaken, the Mazdaspeed 3 has 268HP and a 0 to 60 time of 5.8 seconds or so and the Top Touring Model has an MSRP of $25k.

You want room, you got room with this car.

Cheers or Jeers?

Martin
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  #2  
Old 06-06-2009, 12:04 AM
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Hans Delbruck Hans Delbruck is offline
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Bang for the buck, as well as build quality -- the MazdaSpeed 3 is hard to beat.

The two cars aren't really in the same category but at the same time, I think each are in a class of their own.

One for odd days, the other for even?
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  #3  
Old 06-06-2009, 08:03 AM
Tom K. Tom K. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed_330i View Post
In all seriousness, would anyone consider the Mazdaspeed 3 a serious competitor to the BMW 135i.
If I'm not mistaken, the Mazdaspeed 3 has 268HP and a 0 to 60 time of 5.8 seconds or so and the Top Touring Model has an MSRP of $25k.
Martin
While the Mazda's 0~60 would be comparable with the 128i (not the 135i), the 60/40 FWD weight distribution puts it at a disadvantage to any BMW.

Tom
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  #4  
Old 06-06-2009, 03:27 PM
former former is offline
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I wouldn't consider the two as competitors really. Mostly because of the FWD vs RWD. The Mazda seemed well put together and drove well, but that's a lot of power to put to the front wheels while expecting them to also steer the car in the twisties.

Good bang for the buck though - to be certain!
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  #5  
Old 06-06-2009, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Hans Delbruck View Post
Bang for the buck, as well as build quality -- the MazdaSpeed 3 is hard to beat.

The two cars aren't really in the same category but at the same time, I think each are in a class of their own.

One for odd days, the other for even?
What category are these cars in if they aren't in the same ?
At the same times since I hear people say different cars, different classes, different price range, etc. etc. I'm begining to think there are over a million different categories when comparing two different cars.
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  #6  
Old 06-06-2009, 05:35 PM
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Turbo charged, direct fuel injection, lots of torque over a wide band. Sound familiar? They both have it.
If you could quantify a lot of features into a bang-for-the-buck ratio and that was your sole measure, the MS3 wins. But head to head no doubt about who wins. My son has a 2008 MazdaSpeed 3 which I drive on occassion, and he drives mine. We both agree that the car to be in 'to win' is the BMW. At half the cost of my 335i E92 his car is not to be dismissed easily.
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  #7  
Old 06-07-2009, 03:22 PM
speed_330i speed_330i is offline
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I don't want to get off topic here, but I always wondered why Mazda put more HP in the MazdaSpeed 3 hatchback than they did in their real sports-car, the RX8.

I've always liked the RX7 and the RX8, but the reliability issues , low gas mileage, high oil consumption and lack of low end torque really drove me away from the RX8.

Its a shame, because in my opinion, the styling is great. If only it could perform as good as it looks.

Martin
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  #8  
Old 06-07-2009, 03:36 PM
jkp1187 jkp1187 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speed_330i View Post
Well, just before everyone starts lighting their proverbial torches and getting the hounds ready to have me hung, all I ask is that you give me a 5 minute head start.

In all seriousness, would anyone consider the Mazdaspeed 3 a serious competitor to the BMW 135i.

If I'm not mistaken, the Mazdaspeed 3 has 268HP and a 0 to 60 time of 5.8 seconds or so and the Top Touring Model has an MSRP of $25k.

You want room, you got room with this car.

Cheers or Jeers?

Martin
Both great cars, but not direct competitors.

The 135i is a fine 2+2 premium grand tourer. The Mazda is a great 'hot hatch' with a little more room for a growing family.

But you can decide what you want for your own needs.
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2009, 05:19 PM
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ndabunka ndabunka is offline
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The PRIMARY reason the mazda is not a competitor to the BMW is fit and finish. If you like "plastic-iky" interiors, go for the Mazda. If on the other hand you are willing to pay for a bit more "quality" and attention paid to the interior, go for the BMW. If you were solely talking about performance, then there are some go carts that could out accelerate and out handle either of these two options. Of course, the go cart doesn't come with a roof or even doors, but it will HANDLE better. So, in the modern day and age, it's not really all about performance now is it? Rather, it's about what you would like to drive around in weighed against what you can afford. I hear my wife say "A car is a car, why do you NEED ...XYZ". Truth be told, a 1996 Honda Accord could easily get any one of us from point A to point B but that is not really all cars are about now, is it?
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  #10  
Old 06-07-2009, 06:00 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
The PRIMARY reason the mazda is not a competitor to the BMW is fit and finish. If you like "plastic-iky" interiors, go for the Mazda. If on the other hand you are willing to pay for a bit more "quality" and attention paid to the interior, go for the BMW. If you were solely talking about performance, then there are some go carts that could out accelerate and out handle either of these two options. Of course, the go cart doesn't come with a roof or even doors, but it will HANDLE better. So, in the modern day and age, it's not really all about performance now is it? Rather, it's about what you would like to drive around in weighed against what you can afford. I hear my wife say "A car is a car, why do you NEED ...XYZ". Truth be told, a 1996 Honda Accord could easily get any one of us from point A to point B but that is not really all cars are about now, is it?
The red stitching in my son's MS3 is as good as done in an M3. The rest of the interior is not up to Audi's standards. Or even BMW's.
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  #11  
Old 06-07-2009, 08:48 PM
speed_330i speed_330i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ndabunka View Post
The PRIMARY reason the mazda is not a competitor to the BMW is fit and finish. If you like "plastic-iky" interiors, go for the Mazda. If on the other hand you are willing to pay for a bit more "quality" and attention paid to the interior, go for the BMW. If you were solely talking about performance, then there are some go carts that could out accelerate and out handle either of these two options. Of course, the go cart doesn't come with a roof or even doors, but it will HANDLE better. So, in the modern day and age, it's not really all about performance now is it? Rather, it's about what you would like to drive around in weighed against what you can afford. I hear my wife say "A car is a car, why do you NEED ...XYZ". Truth be told, a 1996 Honda Accord could easily get any one of us from point A to point B but that is not really all cars are about now, is it?
Is it $20,000 better?

I really don't think the difference in interior finish is what sets these two cars apart. I have a Bimmer, but you have to admit that the premium that BMW charges for some of it cars (not all of them) is really unjustifiable.

Overall, I think that BMW, if it dominates consistently in any one area, its not fit/finish, reliability, or even design (give that award to Audi. Don't believe me, just take a look at the TT and new Q7), its handling and a commitment to making a driver's car.

Audi, Jag and MB don't even bother offering proper manuals on some of their vehicles, knowing that if a prospective buyer wanted performance, they opt for a Bimmer.

I don't think that I ever read a professional review of a BMW where a Bimmer lost out to Audi, Infiniti, or BMW on handling and sportiness. They'll lose on fit and finish, confort, design and value, but not performance.

That's my take on BMW as a whole.
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  #12  
Old 06-08-2009, 05:07 PM
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If you want handling and performance and a higher price tag than the MS3 there's always the Mitsubishi Evo 10.
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  #13  
Old 06-08-2009, 05:50 PM
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As a competitor to the 135? No. The MS3 does not have as broad a power band as the N54 TT. It is also FWD. It also will not be able to hang mod-for-mod. But its a good car in the low $20ks. I think its a competitor for other $20k cars.
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  #14  
Old 06-09-2009, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by former View Post
... The Mazda seemed well put together and drove well, but that's a lot of power to put to the front wheels while expecting them to also steer the car
so much power in fact that the torque management system doesn't make all the power available at take-off.
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  #15  
Old 06-09-2009, 05:09 PM
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Sorry, but the Mazda is in a different market category all together car. As nice as it is, there is nothing upscale about the Mazda. There are very few options offered and no luxury touches. Why? because Mazda has other cars in those market segments and I'm sure they'd like to say the Rx8 is the competitor for the 1 series. What's ironic is that if they did offer the Speed3 with better finishes and other nicities, the first sales it would probably steal would be from more expensive Mazdas. It's too bad. If Mazda offered the kind of options you can get in a Mini or a Scion, they'd sell a lot more of them.
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  #16  
Old 06-09-2009, 09:58 PM
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Hans Delbruck Hans Delbruck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kzang View Post
What category are these cars in if they aren't in the same ?
At the same times since I hear people say different cars, different classes, different price range, etc. etc. I'm begining to think there are over a million different categories when comparing two different cars.
Different categories because the MS3 is based on the Mazda 3, Mazda's econocar (at least in the US market) The 1 series is a downmarket/downsized 3 series.

I wouldn't even put the MS3 in the same category as an Evo (which I own and love) It competes with things like the Dodge SRT-4 and GTI. Front-drive "pocket rockets."
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  #17  
Old 06-09-2009, 10:03 PM
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Crazzy Asian Crazzy Asian is offline
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Originally Posted by hans delbruck View Post
different categories because the ms3 is based on the mazda 3, mazda's econocar (at least in the us market) the 1 series is a downmarket/downsized 3 series.

I wouldn't even put the ms3 in the same category as an evo (which i own and love) it competes with things like the dodge srt-4 and gti. Front-drive "pocket rockets."
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  #18  
Old 06-12-2009, 06:45 AM
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I just bought my first 135i (and my second BMW, previously I had a 525i). Before I did that I test drove:
VW GTI
Mazda Speed 3
Honda s2000
Nissan 370z
BMW z4
Volvo c30
Subaru WRX
----------------------
VW GTI- really nice, good acceleration, good price, good handling. Got very close to buying this.
Mazda Speed 3- sleeper- really fast, but kinda cheaply built We got a very annoying buzz in the dash during the test ride. Not worth the extra bucks over the GTI.
Honda s2000- felt like an "old" sports car- like a mid-70's Fiat or MG. I liked it, but a little too impractical and very expensive for what you get.
Nissan 370z- very nice. good performance, but 60mph felt like 80mph. A bit pricey, but overall nice, strong contender. Can't change the oil easily. WTF?
BMW z4- really really nice. They did a super job with the redesign.
Volvo c30- I thought this was supposed to be sporty. It wasn't. Felt like it was on marshmallows.
Subaru WRX- good performer, but a bit pricey. I'd go for the GTI and save the 5 grand.
BMW 135i- great performer and as with any BMW 80mph feels like 60mph. Winner.
Mini CooperS- Nice, but somewhat week in the engine, I think it should be a bit bigger. Good handling though.

I also looked at, but did not drive:
Porsche Boxter- to hard to do simple maintenance
Porsche Caymen- can't even see the powerplant!! WTF?! Why would I buy a performance car if I can't even see the thing that's providing all the performance? Just for the record, I've owned and driven Porsches before- they are great cars, but it seems like they are catering to those with more money than brains these days.
Audi TT- not big on the looks.
BMW M3- 'eh- all the subtleties of an MX missile... too "in your face" for me.

Overall I think the GTI, Speed3 and WRX are in the same class. I'd pick the GTI.
The s2000, 370z, and 135i would be the next class and the 135 wins hands down. The s2000 is in the class due to its price, its performance was the worst of this bunch. The 370 is nice, but for a few grand more, you can get the better 135. And better in all respect (imho)- handling, acceleration, creature comforts, ride quality, road feel, etc etc.

These are my 2 cents, and you can't have them!
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:43 AM
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ndabunka ndabunka is offline
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Originally Posted by jmo69 View Post
If you want handling and performance and a higher price tag than the MS3 there's always the Mitsubishi Evo 10.
...or you could always buy a Ferarri.. Same logic, a bit extreme but same logic. I always wonder why people post such things without proper qualifiers. It should have been written "IF you would be WILLING to pay $2,200 more, then the Evo MAY be a good option...
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:48 AM
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ndabunka ndabunka is offline
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Originally Posted by speed_330i View Post
Is it $20,000 better?

I really don't think the difference in interior finish is what sets these two cars apart. I have a Bimmer, but you have to admit that the premium that BMW charges for some of it cars (not all of them) is really unjustifiable.

Overall, I think that BMW, if it dominates consistently in any one area, its not fit/finish, reliability, or even design (give that award to Audi. Don't believe me, just take a look at the TT and new Q7), its handling and a commitment to making a driver's car.

Audi, Jag and MB don't even bother offering proper manuals on some of their vehicles, knowing that if a prospective buyer wanted performance, they opt for a Bimmer.

I don't think that I ever read a professional review of a BMW where a Bimmer lost out to Audi, Infiniti, or BMW on handling and sportiness. They'll lose on fit and finish, confort, design and value, but not performance.

That's my take on BMW as a whole.
My point was that some people are MORE THAN WILLING to pay for additional benefits. $20K may be "chump change" for some. The dichotomy of prices was not the point, the dichotomy of quality was the point. The assumption is that the quality is worth the price so your argument is not valid from the foundation of the premise extended. Maybe I too was not clear enough in my original post. Some people are ONLY comparing by price. If that was TRUELY the case, then just buy KIA...afterall, it's cheaper and that's what REALLY counts, right?
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  #21  
Old 06-12-2009, 08:54 AM
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BMW is better man...As always..lol
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Old 06-12-2009, 11:35 AM
jkp1187 jkp1187 is offline
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Since we're talking about what we cross-shopped, I actually had it between a Jetta, Cooper S, and the 1er. The Jetta would've been the most practical, but VW just didn't have the long-term reliability I wanted, and as for customer service, someone on TDIClub put it best: when you get a VW, you're buying a brand-new car without a warranty. I was also disappointed that the TDI trim didn't come with a sport suspension option, and neither it nor the GLI trim had dual-zone climate control.

From a back-to-back test-drive shootout between the two (45 mins each, no salesman,) I actually liked driving the Cooper S slightly more than the 1er, just because it felt like a much more involving drive on a day-to-day basis, and better fuel economy, and as I had no plans to track the car, those were more important to me. However, I could not get past the retro styling, and knew the risk of me growing to hate the car's quirky design was just too great. (I got a little annoyed on the test drive at the speedometer placement.)

Then when the chance for a European Delivery presented itself this spring...well, the rest was history.

Last edited by jkp1187; 06-12-2009 at 11:40 AM.
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  #23  
Old 06-15-2009, 04:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jkp1187 View Post
Since we're talking about what we cross-shopped, I actually had it between a Jetta, Cooper S, and the 1er. The Jetta would've been the most practical, but VW just didn't have the long-term reliability I wanted, and as for customer service, someone on TDIClub put it best: when you get a VW, you're buying a brand-new car without a warranty. I was also disappointed that the TDI trim didn't come with a sport suspension option, and neither it nor the GLI trim had dual-zone climate control.



Then when the chance for a European Delivery presented itself this spring...well, the rest was history.
About that long-term reliability of the TDI- I have a Passat I bought new in 1997. 250,000 miles, still on the original clutch. Mileage is still in the mid-40s per gallon.
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  #24  
Old 06-15-2009, 06:25 AM
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Frank Rizzo Frank Rizzo is offline
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IMHO the MS gives great performance in a straight line, if that's your bag, then go for it. I like the fact that you dont see them everywhere - but you have to look for the wheels and badres to make sure it's not a regular 3.

I have a 2008 VW R32 and see the same guy with a MS3 at the track (Buttonwillow). I'm pretty sure it's modded a little because it has a 3" exhaust and I can smell the exhaust when I'm behind him at WOT. He pulls me in the straights, but I'm glued in the corners. When he finally pulls over and lets me by I can get a half lap ahead in 10 minutes.

But then, I can do that to most stock 335's because the drivers usually apply boost at the wrong point in the turn ...It's the 135's I worry about. You guys are usually much more dedicated.
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  #25  
Old 06-15-2009, 08:50 AM
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I like the Mazda3. The last Mazdaspeed3 was fun for 10 minutes and then I wanted out. It felt too loud, too buzzy, too on the boil. The suspension has no give and the shifter/clutch is way too touchy.

For bang for the buck the 2009 WRX will do the job the Speed3 can't. It's faster, puts the power down with the right wheels, it's got the same interior space, bulletproof build quality, 25k, easy to mod and solid handling. The only failing I found in the WRX - five speed. Otherwise it's lighter and faster than my 335i while giving users more space and in my estimation a car that will last much longer. If they'd had a six speed (the on-the-boil at 80 on the freeway thing bugged me) I would have bought it.\\


That said, when my son is at least 3 and I'm hoping BMW allows real ED on the 1 series, then I feel a 128 with some toys will work fine for me - zsp, xenons, comfort access.

Last edited by brkf; 06-15-2009 at 08:54 AM.
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