Bumper damaged while parked - what would you do?

Originally Posted by mickey513

All I can say is.... WOW

I can still tell if you go through her insurance or your insurance, no way will they replace the bumper in accident like these. And beware, even if the insurance company decide to replace the bumper, you will not get OEM if there are aftermarket, "like kind/used" that is available. It is perfectly legal for the insurance company to use these parts provided they meet certain safety criteria.

what you are stating is HIGHLY dependent on how the policies involved are worded. you cant blanket make a statement like you did. if his insurance pays out for the damages and goes after her insurance, then its a non issue, his company will back him. some policies in NYS specify OEM untill the car is 10 years old, others specify non OEM like for all time. its all HIGHLY dependent on the carrier and how the policies are written.

if they balk at replacing (you cant really repair a plastic bumper) the OP can sue in small claims court. he has a) estimates for repair from multiple places, all indicating bumper replacement b) her on tape admitting she made the damage leading to a). civil suits are not based beyond a reasonable doubt, but on preponderance of the evidence. photos + an admission of liability...

Unbelievable "parking". Keep a level head, but pursue this all the way to an insurance repair with her's paying out.

I'm angry for you, just looking at that photo. I hope it eventually gets resolved to your satisfaction.

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

what you are stating is HIGHLY dependent on how the policies involved are worded. you cant blanket make a statement like you did. if his insurance pays out for the damages and goes after her insurance, then its a non issue, his company will back him. some policies in NYS specify OEM untill the car is 10 years old, others specify non OEM like for all time. its all HIGHLY dependent on the carrier and how the policies are written.

if they balk at replacing (you cant really repair a plastic bumper) the OP can sue in small claims court. he has a) estimates for repair from multiple places, all indicating bumper replacement b) her on tape admitting she made the damage leading to a). civil suits are not based beyond a reasonable doubt, but on preponderance of the evidence. photos + an admission of liability...

First off, you can repair a plastic bumper from light accidents. You can bark all day about wanting OEM parts in the repair but I can tell you from the insurance stand point. You won't get it if there are alternatives to the factory parts. You can walk into any auto repair body shop and they will tell you the same thing. The ONLY time you will get OEM parts is if there was no aftermarket alternative. Regardless of who is at fault, insurance companies operate from a cost cutting measure because the moment you drive that car out of that dealer lot, it is consider USED.

There was another member on e46fanatics who started a tread about his friend destroying the front end of his car from reversing his truck into his e46. He wanted all "OEM" parts from the insurance for the repairs totaling over $5 in parts and labor. His insurance, Geico if i remember correctly, gave him a little $2k and specified all repair parts to be "Like Kind" (ie: AFTERMARKET). Long story short, his insistence on OEM parts got him no where and not only that, he screwed up his friend’s insurance rate.

Simply not true. Had my car hit and was replaced with strictly OEM parts. Before you go on a rampage about how I was told I got OEM while getting aftermarket, let it be known I had all parts shipped to my house directly to verify OEM. I have Allstate platinum (which v12 also has - so he should be good to go).

Originally Posted by mickey513

First off, you can repair a plastic bumper from light accidents. You can bark all day about wanting OEM parts in the repair but I can tell you from the insurance stand point. You won't get it if there are alternatives to the factory parts. You can walk into any auto repair body shop and they will tell you the same thing. The ONLY time you will get OEM parts is if there was no aftermarket alternative. Regardless of who is at fault, insurance companies operate from a cost cutting measure because the moment you drive that car out of that dealer lot, it is consider USED.

There was another member on e46fanatics who started a tread about his friend destroying the front end of his car from reversing his truck into his e46. He wanted all "OEM" parts from the insurance for the repairs totaling over $5 in parts and labor. His insurance, Geico if i remember correctly, gave him a little $2k and specified all repair parts to be "Like Kind" (ie: AFTERMARKET). Long story short, his insistence on OEM parts got him no where and not only that, he screwed up his friend’s insurance rate.

Not true at all. Yes, you can indeed repair a plastic bumper quite beautifully. However, the part about OEM parts is simply not true, and the rest of your post is simple misinformation. Halfway to plonkville.

mickey513 doesn't know what the **** he's talking about! It depends on who your insurance company is. You CAN ask for OEM parts. You DO NOT have to settle for after market parts!

Hello everyone, update as promised:

I mentioned in my previous post that I was getting a voicemail at her office. Kept trying and finally someone picked up at around 1:45 pm and says that woman is expected at 4:30 pm.

She had offered to meet at 4:30 pm so I leave early enough to stop by a BMW Service location beforehand because I need another estimate to show. The collision guy there wouldn't fax/ e-mail anything and explains he has to see the car.
He takes a look and explains that I have to structural damage (he checked whether the trap (for lack of a better word?) in the trunk lifts/ closes normally and whether the rear-bumper cover and trunk lid are aligned normally with the rest of the car and rear panel.
He also says he thinks her insurance won't accept to pay for bumper replacement given the damage. He says that can sanded, repaired/ shaped with "fillers" and painted to my color car and with the clear coating. He says he's repaired some in the past, some where cracked over several inches. He insures me, there will be no visible difference in color paint/ bumper original design shape.
I ask for for an estimate for both scenarios and it turns out the "repair" is only $300 less than replacing the whole thing. I also find out he outsources this to a body shop.


Off to the meeting: I am there at 4:25 pm and call her telling her to come out and meet me.
She says she already filled a claim with her insurance and to call them. I ask her to come out because I need her driver, registration and insurance info. She refuses. I offer her to come out or deal with me and Police.
The conversation is going in circles, I say ok, come out show me what you have. She accepts.
As I exit my car a Police patrol car is turning the corner and driving in my direction! I flag it and explain to the passenger Officer the situation in three sentences, I look over the driver and it's one of the two officers who came out on Tuesday. He recognizes me and shakes his head in disdain seemingly because I pursued this (what happened is nothing and I am making a fuss in his mind I suppose). He goes "oh, you recorded it? Let me hear it". I say hang-on, I'll be right back.

I run back to my car to bring it closer to the Police car and now the woman who's crossing the street and approaching the Police car. I return and I am prepared to
play the recording but he says the woman already told him she did it.

So I still don't have all her info, she refuses and show them both a print out of the DMV accidents FAQs page with a highlight stating I have the right to see/ get all her info. She offers to show everything to the Officer but not me. I say I don't care about your identity and who you are. I need your info for the MV-104 form for a situation you created in the first place. I now understand she is worried about me having her info (as in identity theft or something).
The officer says I can have it and I copy over the content of her insurance card and all the while I am yelling at her about what she did, the aggravation she caused me, the hours of time she wasted and my indignation about her still not feeling she did anything wrong (she refers to the damage as "nothing").

I am done. The officer says "we got to go, there is an assault". That's BS because, I heard no call on the radio and as they leave, they do not turn on their sirens/ lights. They just want to leave. I understand that my situation is small and limited in importance to anyone but me. Still they are not there to judge me.
So helpless.

The woman and I cross the street, I ask for and get her cell #. I am saying to her that I'd have let it go if she had not parked in such a moronic fashion and after she did if she had at least left a note. She says she didn't do anything wrong and says she learned her lesson (contradiction right there but I say nothing: it's pointless).

Just a dumb and selfish person. You cannot change people.


I drive-off, I feel I am lucky I came back and found the owner of the car that hit me, it took work but I won.
Then I realize in this commotion, I didn't ask her to sign the MV-104 which is not valid without a signature. I then wonder whether I should go as far as obtain this (go back, wrangle some more, no one can force her to sign besides): it goes on her driver's record and taints it. That stays on forever I think. Am I satisfied or should I actually go beyond my resolution and hurt her?

The MV-104 form (link here) is to report the accident to the DMV. The accident goes on the record of Driver 1 (that's her). I have enough info to fill out everything on the left side except for her Driver License number and her signature.

But it's a separate element of this equation from working with her insurance to get my car fixed on their/ her dime.
I'll ask what is the version of the facts they got from her and I'll be sending them my story, pictures and recording (only the first one, I didn't record yesterday's meeting with her/ cops: my mind slipped and I didn't turn it on). I also don't know yet whether I want the bumper replaced or "repaired". I would prefer "repaired" if it means not taking the bumper off the car (it already irks me that I'll have to let someone else drive it/ leave it with them). I'll make sure I am there the day her insurance person shows up to see my car and approve the repairs. I'll insist on OEM parts.
If I want bumper replacement but he refuses to pay for, I'll go after the woman in Small Claims court (I repeated that to her at the meeting and she said "sue me, I have no money") to recoup the difference, the court fees and I will charge her for the hours I spent on this episode.



So in all of this, I unwillingly learned a lot, understand why people hate the Police (while I had a great deal of admiration/ respect for them), want to be armed and to never underestimate people creativity in being/ acting stupidly (which in turn I am sure explains why the cops are so blasé and try to get away with the bare minimum).


Live and learn. I hope this helps all the readers on these forums. No substitute: experience --> knowledge --> readiness --> better results.

Thank you again everyone. I'll keep going until my car is fixed and will update again.

Originally Posted by v12

Blah blah blah

Great job Dick Tracy. Now go out and see if you can find who murdered Sharon Tate.

New York cops have a lot more important things to do than chase down fender benders.

Scratches this small happen every time you park in a parking lot in NY.

May I suggest:

No you may not Smarty.

Your statement is false: they do not happen every time and I, for one, do not want them and had none before this happened.

People should realize if they watched their actions and respected other people's private property, there would no need for a piece of rubber hanging from the back of cars (it looks fugly anyway), the Police would not have so many "important things" to do and our society as whole would benefit from a better living environment and lower insurance rates.

If you damage someone else car while parking, you either cannot drive or you don't care. In both cases, you should be off the road.



Thank you for your valuable contribution.

Originally Posted by v12

No you may not Smarty.


People should realize if they watched their actions and respected other people's private property, there would no need for a piece of rubber hanging from the back of cars (it looks fugly anyway), the Police would not have so many "important things" to do and our society as whole would benefit from a better living environment and lower insurance rates.

If you damage someone else car while parking, you either cannot drive or you don't care. In both cases, you should be off the road.

I agree with these statements 100% but somewhere around 10th grade lost a bit of the idealistic streak. It's real tough to go through life with the expectation that life will be fair.

That's why I would have just four-flatted her and paid for the bumper repair.

Originally Posted by v12

No you may not Smarty.

Your statement is false: they do not happen every time.

Then you have either (1) never parked near Madison Square Garden or (2) tipped the parking attendants more than the expected 10 bucks.

Nice job v12!!

I would do the same and drag her to the hell..

In addition to that, expose her identity to 10 million chinese bloggers.. lol

Originally Posted by pony_trekker

I agree with these statements 100% but somewhere around 10th grade lost a bit of the idealistic streak. It's real tough to go through life with the expectation that life will be fair.

That's why I would have just four-flatted her and paid for the bumper repair.

pony:

I'd have gone further than that even if I were to take such actions. She would have had little left of her car: my Golf clubs in the trunk would have been more useful to me then than during years on the green.


But two wrongs don't make a right: four-flat her and take the risk to get in trouble myself?
I have a visible public profile (I am on Google if you type-in my name) and cannot take the risk for that satisfaction payout I was looking at.
Teaching her a lesson through her wallet seemed like the best way to *perhaps* get her to understand. Even that way, people don't seem to generally. But it hurts and that's good enough for me.


No, life is not fair but I worked very hard to put myself above the fray.I hate when it catches up with me and in this case I felt I had to teach that person a lesson since she deserved it. It's the upbringing one gets and then the decisions one makes in adult life.

On the road: I am the guy who stops at STOP signs and get honked for it and use my blinkers to signal my intentions: always. At the office: I am the guy who's never worked less than 70 hours a week and the youngest managing director they have here. On the street: I am the guy who'll buy dinner to three homeless people instead of giving them cash for booze.

It is not idealistic either: it's a collective effort, starting with the Politicians, Education and Law Enforcement representatives (all of which are prone to take shortcuts). Our society and NYC to a greater extend even is lazy, selfish, ill-mannered, tolerates (almost promotes, that's if you have TV at home) mediocrity.

I swear: this is starting to look like Europe. What happened?


I go to great lengths to achieve what I want (work and everything else in life). I value my results and expect people to do the right thing. I call them out on it and may get shot one day for it because despite their being wrong, people/ New Yorkers have a big mouth and NEVER admit it: they'll talk back. If I am an assh0le for being so upright, they are despicable when they behave that way.
When you add the terrible state of the roads in NYC, you wonder what people are spending so much time on and hiding being the excuse of a hectic life: "You don't get it! I got a lot going on. If you are not happy, F*** you!". That's the attitude and you get the idea...

And you are right: 1) and 2) don't apply to me.
I never use valet parking, I garage my car and sometimes park on the street. When I do I do not mind waiting for a spot which reduces the risks. This was one, she could not fit behind me, most would not have tried but this idiot tried anyway...

Originally Posted by nyfellas

Nice job v12!!

I would do the same and drag her to the hell..

In addition to that, expose her identity to 10 million chinese bloggers.. lol

Now that's an idea!

Originally Posted by v12

Thank you again everyone. I'll keep going until my car is fixed and will update again.

Keep doing what you are doing. It is unfortunate you have to waste your valuable time to get something repaired that someone else broke. Since she was being uncooperative and caused teh situation don't worry about her drivers license - that is part of the lesson. When her rates go up she will learn the hardway how to park.

Originally Posted by pony_trekker

New York cops have a lot more important things to do than chase down fender benders.

Like eating donuts? Part of the cops responsibilty is to properly report vehicle accidents - even minor ones. The cops just don't want to do it because they have to fill out mundane paperwork. Guess what - I don't want to do a lot of things but I do it because that is what I get paid to do. Also filling out the paperwork wouldn't have been long. The cops could have spent 10-15 minutes and gotten the situation done - and the person whose car was damaged and whose life was inconvenienced can be compensated.

All the laws in our society point to the OP and say he is right, and the real-estate agent is 100% wrong. The cops are also wrong for not assisting - it is also the law for them.

Why should the OP lose time/money because of someone else? BTW saying "well you parked here you should have expected it" is just plain retarded. So if I walk down south central LA and get shot should the police say "well he walked down south central LA - it's his fault, he shouldnt have been there" Thats retarded also

Making people pay for their mistakes, especially when they are non-chalant about it is the only way to teach them. If she would have written a note, put it on the window and paid up this would be simpler. And if she didn't realize what she did (at the time it happened) all she had to do was look at the pictures and say "i am so sorry, here is my insurance info" and it would have been done with. SHe is wrong, you are wrong.

OP: Drag her through hell so she feels the pain you are feeling. Take her to small claims for the damages, and your time/effort.

I was in a tiny bit of similar situation (parked car hit, not my BMW though) but the guy waited around and did the right thing. However, later on he lied to his own insurance and said that I was parked illegally and that I "admitted that it was illegal." I'm sure he just didn't want to admit clear fault and risk his premiums going up. I asked his insurance corporation for his information (name, number) and they made this big deal about not giving it to me, even though I had it at home (the guy gave me his business card, but I was at work at the time). I guess there are some assaults or harassment due to this stuff. I just sent pictures of where I was parked, told his insurance the truth, and they contacted the guy and his insurance ultimately paid everything.

Nevertheless, if you wanted this lady's name, I am sure it would not be hard to get -- just get your wife to go in to her real estate agency and ask for her, or see if there are names or a directory on the wall. Pretend to be interested in business. Shouldn't be that hard to get a full name, but I am not sure you need to do it.

I would complete the DMV form and put her license plate number and a note that the person hit and run, refusing to sign the document. From the license plate they can easily get the person's name if they want to pursue it.

Regarding revenge, REALLY bad idea at this time. The police have your name / number and know you were kinda mad. While they might also be lazy coming after you, girls get a bit more sympathetic treatment -- she could even do something even more dirty like lie to say you were harassing her at home and then the cops would probably come after you. You do NOT want to go down that road even though you have justifiable anger. You acted in a mature responsible manner and are all the better for it. She is probably being honest (finally) when she says she has no money, and I'm sure that life will punish her enough.

Focus on getting her insurance to pay for EVERYTHING in a very proper repair (I would advise repair or else OEM replacement. If you replace if the car is new enough you might not have to blend when using OEM BASF paints.

Good luck. Again sorry you had to go through this. I have several friends who are otherwise normal people, but would behave like this lady though. They say stuff like "What do you think BUMPERS are for? Why do they call them BUMPERS?"

I have a question.
When you originally parked there why did you not park with your rear bumper lined up with the driveway she was blocking? Then no one could have parked behind you.
My guess is that would have left a space in front of you and you wanted to take up two spaces.

Park in a place where you can leave enough room on both ends of the car, so if you get jammed on one end, you can still get out on the other. But if you're parking in an urban area, your bumper will get trashed and there's nothing you can do. I see this all the time in DC and close in VA where people park on the street. Unfortunately, BMW has eliminated rub strips on their bumpers. So you have nothing to protect them. The paint looks great when it's new, but over time, careless drivers who use the braille method of parking will put dings all over the pretty painted bumper.

Originally Posted by neapolitan

Nevertheless, if you wanted this lady's name, I am sure it would not be hard to get -- just get your wife to go in to her real estate agency and ask for her, or see if there are names or a directory on the wall. Pretend to be interested in business. Shouldn't be that hard to get a full name, but I am not sure you need to do it.

He has her name she gave him her business card. She won't give the insurance info.

For the OP: Grab her VIN number (it's easily seen from outside the car under the inspection/emission stickers --- or on the driver side front window and license plate. The cops/insurance company/etc can track this via those numbers.

Originally Posted by ramblinman

Park in a place where you can leave enough room on both ends of the car, so if you get jammed on one end, you can still get out on the other. But if you're parking in an urban area, your bumper will get trashed and there's nothing you can do.

Sometimes there are thinsg you can do and in this persons case this is one of those times.

Originally Posted by neapolitan

[...]
Nevertheless, if you wanted this lady's name, I am sure it would not be hard to get -- just get your wife to go in to her real estate agency and ask for her, or see if there are names or a directory on the wall. Pretend to be interested in business. Shouldn't be that hard to get a full name, but I am not sure you need to do it.

I would complete the DMV form and put her license plate number and a note that the person hit and run, refusing to sign the document. From the license plate they can easily get the person's name if they want to pursue it.

Regarding revenge, REALLY bad idea at this time. The police have your name / number and know you were kinda mad. While they might also be lazy coming after you, girls get a bit more sympathetic treatment -- she could even do something even more dirty like lie to say you were harassing her at home and then the cops would probably come after you. You do NOT want to go down that road even though you have justifiable anger. You acted in a mature responsible manner and are all the better for it. She is probably being honest (finally) when she says she has no money, and I'm sure that life will punish her enough.

Focus on getting her insurance to pay for EVERYTHING in a very proper repair (I would advise repair or else OEM replacement. If you replace if the car is new enough you might not have to blend when using OEM BASF paints.
[...]

Glad your situation worked out well for you.

Thank you. She first gave me her business card when I waited and confronted her on Wed. So I had her name, employer info, office #.
Now I also have her home address (from her insurance card) and cell # which I asked her for and she gave.
She refused to give her insurance info at first yesterday but the officer validated my right to have it.

I just don't have that MV-104 form signed by her which is what I would need to taint her license record with this incident. I forgot to ask her to sign and it's not said she would have done it since it isn't necessary to complete the repairs through the insurance. I have the feeling the cops would have sided with her.

Revenge: no, nothing like that.


Could you please explain the BASF blend sentence? I don't know anything about it.

Originally Posted by hbdunn2003

I have a question.
When you originally parked there why did you not park with your rear bumper lined up with the driveway she was blocking? Then no one could have parked behind you.
My guess is that would have left a space in front of you and you wanted to take up two spaces.

Negative.

The stretch this was at can accomodate 3 *crammed" cars (I have seen it during past visits there) between a parking sign pole 15' to the right of a fire hydrant and the driveway behind me.

When I arrived I found a car taking-up 1.5 spot and I parked 20" behind him taking the other 1.5. I did it this way as I figured no one would try and park behind me (insufficient space).

Had I parked aligned to the driveway and the car in front me had left, two more cars would have likely tried to cram themselves in front me, potentially damaging my front.

If it wasn't for that car parked there before me, I would have never left it there. I usually get a spot between two driveways just to myself. There are several ones there and in adjacent streets just none that I saw when I arrived.

Hopefully your situation will work out as well V12. She should get what she deserves!!

Thank you everyone. I appreciate your thoughts, collective knowledge and support.

Originally Posted by pony_trekker

Then you have either (1) never parked near Madison Square Garden or (2) tipped the parking attendants more than the expected 10 bucks.

I think you're missing the point here... the OP can correct me if i'm wrong, but i think he's pursuing this mostly on principle.... the inaction on the side of the police and the woman being difficult have probably pushed him to pursue this the way he has been...

personally, for me, it all depends, i've been rear ended a few times, mostly light bumper damage. most of the time i'll let it slide if the driver of the other car is apologetic, I'll take their info, but usually just let it go, crap happens, its NYC. one time the other driver immedietely went off about how it was nothing, and that he was in a hurry. I made sure he stayed till the police came and filed a report and made sure that i went and got the bumper replaced on his insurance's dime. OEM parts at the best body shop in NYC (at the time).

Originally Posted by v12

Thank you everyone. I appreciate your thoughts, collective knowledge and support.

Good Luck to you!!

Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC

I think you're missing the point here... the OP can correct me if i'm wrong, but i think he's pursuing this mostly on principle.... the inaction on the side of the police and the woman being difficult have probably pushed him to pursue this the way he has been...

personally, for me, it all depends, i've been rear ended a few times, mostly light bumper damage. most of the time i'll let it slide if the driver of the other car is apologetic, I'll take their info, but usually just let it go, crap happens, its NYC. one time the other driver immedietely went off about how it was nothing, and that he was in a hurry. I made sure he stayed till the police came and filed a report and made sure that i went and got the bumper replaced on his insurance's dime. OEM parts at the best body shop in NYC (at the time).

Spot-on.

Fully agree with your perspective in paragraph 2 as well.

Not only she wasn't apologetic but she was thick. You don't know what it is like until the actions of someone like that affect you.


N.B: I forgot to mention to pony_trekker: I never go to Madison Square Garden, Times Square or any other popular/ crowded places.

Spoke with GEICO (her insurer) this morning and this afternoon.
It's clean-cut, they'll pay for fixing my car.

Now, how much they'll pay depends on the adjuster. So having GEICO set me up to meet him is the next step.


If the repairs are done at a location of my choice (BMW-Certified-location) GEICO cuts me a check.
I spoke with Hassel BMW in Freeport, NY, they sounded good and they also do the work on premises as opposed to sub-contracting a third-party like Life Quality BMW in Brooklyn (which uses Auto Pro Collision in staten Island).
A third-party shop isn't necessarily a bad thing I suppose. I don't know any (good) one and it'd have


If they are done at a location GEICO recommends, I bring in the car, it gets fixed, I walk away, no monetary consideration.

I asked for a few locations they work with. Anyone knows any of them?

DTS Delta Collision Auto Express
529 East 84th Street
Brooklyn, New York 11236
Phone (718) 444-7266
Contact Phil or Billy
Office Hours Monday, Tuesday and Saturday: 7:30 a.m.-12:55 p.m.;
Wednesday and Friday: 7:30 a.m.-10:15 a.m.; Thursday: 7:30 a.m. -
12:30 p.m.


SEA Seabreeze Auto Body Auto Express
8729 18th Avenue
Brooklyn, New York 11214
Phone (718) 372-5600
Contact Domenic
Office Hours Monday-Friday: 7:30 a.m.-10:15 a.m.; Saturday: 7:30
a.m.-12:00 p.m.

NYX Auto Tech Auto Express
505 West 57th Street
New York, New York 10019
Phone (212) 974-0400
Contact Michael Glickman
Office Hours Monday Through Saturday: 7:30 a.m.-12:30 p.m.