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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Talk about the E83 BMW X3 in this forum!

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  #1  
Old 11-16-2013, 11:46 PM
cagui1223 cagui1223 is offline
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Driver side heated seat no longer works...

2007 x3 3.0 si.
Passenger side works fine. The green light on the button doesn't light up and the seat no longer generates heat for the driver side.

The fuses diagram found in the vehicle indicate the heat should be 12, 31, 51, 61. The only ones that I find labeled are 51 and 61. Am I reading it right?

Ill provide pictures later on since its almost 3am and I'm typing this from my mobile.

Anyone have this issue?
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2013, 09:25 AM
joylove joylove is offline
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There will only be one fuse. The switch contains diagnostic circuits, I think you can hold the button down and it flashes a fault code. Assuming the fuse hasn't popped.
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2013, 10:01 AM
joylove joylove is offline
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Also some seat heaters burned out on early cars.

Find the seat heater info page on this website.

http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r.../e83/index.htm
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  #4  
Old 11-17-2013, 11:05 AM
cagui1223 cagui1223 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joylove View Post
There will only be one fuse. The switch contains diagnostic circuits, I think you can hold the button down and it flashes a fault code. Assuming the fuse hasn't popped.
Which fuse would it be? What switch are you talking about?

Here's a picture of the fuse chart. Heated seat 12, 31, 51, 61.

Click image for larger version

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  #5  
Old 11-17-2013, 12:50 PM
joylove joylove is offline
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The switch would be the seat switch.

The fuse would be visible in the schematics I linked you. I don't have Java on this device.
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  #6  
Old 11-17-2013, 01:26 PM
cagui1223 cagui1223 is offline
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I check the wiring diagram you sent me, found the seating heating but I don't see anything that references the specific fuse.
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  #7  
Old 11-17-2013, 02:27 PM
joylove joylove is offline
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The supply for the switch will have the fuse number on it. Additionally, the diagnostics features of the switch should be described in the text.
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  #8  
Old 11-18-2013, 04:20 AM
cagui1223 cagui1223 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joylove View Post
There will only be one fuse. The switch contains diagnostic circuits, I think you can hold the button down and it flashes a fault code. Assuming the fuse hasn't popped.
So, a bit embarrassed here because I don't know how to read the information off the diagram you provided http://www.bmw-planet.com/diagrams/r.../e83/index.htm

What switch exactly? The switch I press down to turn on the heated seat? Where would it flash a fault code? Could you be more specific about it?
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  #9  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:16 AM
DangermouseX3 DangermouseX3 is offline
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I am used to a lot of European wiring but this is a little different and will take a little familiarity.

From looking at those schematics I think the switch is labeled A169 (being the center console switch) and has two fuses feeding it. Cross referencing the fuse chart above and looking at the fuse section in the diagram, it looks like both F12 (7.5A) and F61 (30A) are both involved. F61 being the one for the heater element (larger current) and F12 being the thermostat that shuts the heater off.

I would start there and check both for continuity, with a meter.
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  #10  
Old 11-18-2013, 06:56 AM
cagui1223 cagui1223 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DangermouseX3 View Post
I am used to a lot of European wiring but this is a little different and will take a little familiarity.

From looking at those schematics I think the switch is labeled A169 (being the center console switch) and has two fuses feeding it. Cross referencing the fuse chart above and looking at the fuse section in the diagram, it looks like both F12 (7.5A) and F61 (30A) are both involved. F61 being the one for the heater element (larger current) and F12 being the thermostat that shuts the heater off.

I would start there and check both for continuity, with a meter.
Thanks! I'll check the fuses later when I'm home and report back.
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  #11  
Old 11-18-2013, 07:26 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is offline
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Had the same problem -- driver's seat didn't work pax seat worked fine. It was not a fuse, the heating pad had failed. Apparently a fairly common problem with the E83 heated seats. The other problem those seats had was burning through the seat cover and into the seat of the occupant Just be glad it didn't fail that way! BMW fixed mine but it was still under the OEM warranty.
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  #12  
Old 11-18-2013, 07:49 AM
cagui1223 cagui1223 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
Had the same problem -- driver's seat didn't work pax seat worked fine. It was not a fuse, the heating pad had failed. Apparently a fairly common problem with the E83 heated seats. The other problem those seats had was burning through the seat cover and into the seat of the occupant Just be glad it didn't fail that way! BMW fixed mine but it was still under the OEM warranty.
Yeah I had read up a while back regarding the burning.

I figure its not a fuse issue but I gotta start somewhere, why not from there? Either way I don't know much of electrical so I don't forsee myself fixing this one on my own.. :/ (Unless there's a DIY out there!) :/
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  #13  
Old 11-18-2013, 10:32 AM
joylove joylove is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagui1223 View Post
Yeah I had read up a while back regarding the burning.

I figure its not a fuse issue but I gotta start somewhere, why not from there?
How did you get on with the diagnostic features integrated into the seat switch and described in the WDS? They can detect opens, shorts, underheat, overheat and so on.
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  #14  
Old 11-18-2013, 10:46 AM
cagui1223 cagui1223 is offline
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Driver side heated seat no longer works...

Again, I don't know much about wiring and plugging into ports on a vehicle other than using an OBD reader. So I haven't read any codes on the seat and I don't know what tool is necessary.


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  #15  
Old 11-18-2013, 11:54 AM
joylove joylove is offline
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There is no need for a code reader.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joylove View Post
The switch contains diagnostic circuits, I think you can hold the button down and it flashes a fault code.
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  #16  
Old 11-18-2013, 12:01 PM
cagui1223 cagui1223 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joylove View Post
There is no need for a code reader.
So the seat switch you're referring to is the "heating" switch for the seat?
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  #17  
Old 11-18-2013, 05:14 PM
Pavilion Pavilion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
The other problem those seats had was burning through the seat cover and into the seat of the occupant Just be glad it didn't fail that way! BMW fixed mine but it was still under the OEM warranty.
When it happened on my 05 last February BMW reversed its starting position and paid for a seat cover and heater replacement even though mine was well out of warranty.
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2013, 11:00 AM
cagui1223 cagui1223 is offline
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Is there a technical service bulletin for this?
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2013, 11:23 AM
joylove joylove is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagui1223 View Post
So the seat switch you're referring to is the "heating" switch for the seat?
Quote:
Originally Posted by joylove View Post
The switch would be the seat switch.
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2013, 12:59 PM
cagui1223 cagui1223 is offline
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Driver side heated seat no longer works...

Quote:
Originally Posted by joylove View Post
Man, it's like pulling teeth.

So the seat switch which adjusts the backrest, height, depth, etc of the seat.


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  #21  
Old 11-19-2013, 01:04 PM
joylove joylove is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cagui1223 View Post
Man, it's like pulling teeth.
Funny as I was thinking the exact same thing. You have the schematic, you have the tips on what to look for, you have the link to find the detailed description of the button flash codes. Short of me coming there and doing it for you I can't imagine what the issue is.
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  #22  
Old 11-19-2013, 01:09 PM
cagui1223 cagui1223 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joylove View Post
Funny as I was thinking the exact same thing. You have the schematic, you have the tips on what to look for, you have the link to find the detailed description of the button flash codes. Short of me coming there and doing it for you I can't imagine what the issue is.
I really appreciate all your tips and info joylove. My apologies if I don't understand electrical or the schematics, even as logical as it may look to you.
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  #23  
Old 11-19-2013, 01:55 PM
joylove joylove is offline
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Ah OK well that's easy to fix.

Check Fuse F16 25A
Quote:
he seat heating system heats the seat cushion area and backrest. The electronics for controlling the selected heating temperature (3 stages) and fault monitoring are integrated in the switch centre of the centre console.
Function

Seat heating can be switched on in three heating stages as from terminal 15 by pressing the button. Three LEDs built into the switch centre light to indicate operation. "Terminal 15 active" is signalled to the centre console switch centre via the K-bus.
Initially, heating stage 1 is activated when the seat heating is switched on (button pressed once). The seat surface is heated up to approx. 44 C. All three LEDs light to indicate operation.
By pressing the button once more, the topmost LED goes out and heating stage 2 is activated. The seat is now only heated up to 39 C.
The seat heating system is switched to heating stage 3 by pressing the button once again. The bottom-most LED lights. The seat is heated up to 35 C.
The seat heating is switched off by pressing the button once again or switching off the ignition. The seat heating can also be switched off in any heating stage by pressing the push button for longer than 1 second.
The seats are heated by means of carbon fibre heating mats in the main section and steel wires (steel filaments) in the bolster. A carbon fibre heating mat is installed in both the seat cushion section as well as in the backrest. The centre sections of the seat and backrest as well as the bolsters of the seat and backrest are always heated. Heating filaments or carbon fibre mats are additionally integrated in the thigh support on sports seats. The seat and backrest bolsters are not heated on the series E39 sports seat with fabric cover.
The temperature is measured by a temperature sensor in the seat upholstery and passed on to switch centre.
Monitoring functions

Battery voltage

The electronic seat heating control switches off the power supply to the heating mats if the battery voltage in the vehicle is less than 11.4 V 0.3 V. The function LEDs however remain on. Power supply to the heating mats is restored when the battery voltage is greater than 12.2 V 0.3 V for at least 5 seconds.
PC-Board temperature

Due to the fact that the power input of the seat heating system is very high (120 W), the temperature of the pc-board in the switch centre is monitored by temperature sensors. Initially, the heating power is reduced as the temperature increases to over 85 C. The heating is switched off if the pc-board temperature exceeds 95 C. The function LEDs however remain on. The seat heating cuts in automatically again when the pc-board temperature drops below 85 C.
Fault monitoring

The electronic seat heating control system monitors the temperature sensor and heating mats for faults. Detected faults are stored in the fault code memory of the centre console switch centre.
The following faults can be recognized:
Short-circuit or line break
Short-circuit or line break of temperature sensors
Break in heating mats
If a break or short occurs at the temperature sensor, the seat heating is switched off in order to prevent overheating. The function LEDs are switched off.
Quote:
Current measurement, seat heating

The current is measured in order to be able to provide a basic statement with regard to a defect in the seat heating system.
Measurement preparation

On vehicles equipped with a switching centre in the centre console, the current is measured directly at the switching centre.
Switch off seat heating
Remove centre console switching centre (A169)
Measurement is carried out with a 50 A clip-on ammeter
Unwind insulating tape from wiring harness under seat and attach clip-on ammeter to the wire to be measures.
Left seat heating: Measurement on HZFA wire (white/yellow, pin 1)
Right seat heating: Measurement on HZBF wire (white/green, pin 13)
Start engine in order to ensure a system voltage of approx. 13.8 V
System voltage
If the system voltage drops below 11.4 V, the LEDs remain lit but the seat heating is switched off. The seat heating is re-activated as soon as a voltage of at least 12.2 V is permanently applied.
Measurement at DIS tester

Select "measurement system"
Measurement function: Current 50 A
Measurement connection: Clip-on ammeter
Type of measurement: Direct current =
Measuring range: +/- 50 A
Check system voltage with DIS tester
Switch on seat heater on the side to be measured
Measurement evaluation

Generally applicable for all heating stages: Each heating stage has a certain setpoint temperature. The control unit attempts to reach this temperature as fast as possible. The temperature is the kept constant by means of clocking (= pulsating direct current).
Generally, the current is approx. 10 A during the heating-up phase (at a system voltage of 13.8 V)
The heating output is reduced on approaching the setpoint temperature. The clocking function can now be distinctly recognized, i.e. the current pulsates between 0 and approx. 10 A.
On finally reaching the setpoint temperature, the interval of the 0 A range is extended even longer.
If the current temperature is higher than the setpoint temperature, e.g. when, after a longer period of operation, the heating is switched back from stage 1 (3 LEDs) to stage 3 (1 LED), no current is applied until the temperature has again dropped to the corresponding setpoint temperature.
Heating-up seat
The duration of the heating-up phase is dependent on the temperature measured at the temperature sensor! The setpoint temperature is reached more quickly at high ambient temperatures (e.g. in summer) or if the seat is preheated. In this case, the clocking cuts in correspondingly earlier.
Measured power
The measured power depends on many different factors. Both the level of the system voltage as well as the type of seat installed and operation of other loads (seat heating on other side, steering wheel heating) play a significant role. The specified value of 10 A is therefore only a reference value.
Setpoint temperatures

The following setpoint temperatures are reached in the three-stage seat heating system:
Stage 1 operation (3 LEDs lit):
The seat is heated to a setpoint temperature of 35 C
Stage 2 operation (2 LEDs lit):
The seat is heated to a setpoint temperature of 39 C
Stage 3 operation (1 LED lit):
The seat is heated to a setpoint temperature of 44 C
Measurement evaluation

A current of approx. 10 A is applied:
The seat heating is OK
A current of approx. 5 A is applied:
Defect in heating mat of seat cushion or seat backrest
No current is applied:
Defect in heating mat of seat cushion and seat backrest
Here's how they used to flash a fault, bu tI guess they only support it via INPA these days. I'd be under the seat with my multimeter, expect about 2-5R per mat if memory serves.
Quote:
Fault monitoring

The seat heating electronics monitors the temperature sensor and the heating elements for faults.
If a break or short occurs at the temperature sensor, the seat heating is switched off in order to prevent overheating.
Fault indicator

If a fault is recognized, the function LED installed in the switch flashes for 12 seconds when the fault occurs, or, if the fault is already present, when the seat heating is switched on.
Flash code

A flash code shows what faults the electronic circuitry has currently detected.
Flash code output is started by following procedure:
Switch off ignition
Press and hold the button for seat heating
Switch on ignition (terminal 15) with button depressed
Release the button and press it again briefly
The following faults can be indicated:
Flashing
Defect
Once
Switch faulty (potentiometer or electronics) or switch overheating due to a short-circuit
Twice
Temperature sensor has break or short
3 times
All 4 heating elements broken or have a short (probably break or short in wiring harness)
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