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E90/E92/E93 M3 (2008 - 2014)
4th generation E90 M3 sedan, E92 M3 coupe and E93 M3 convertible. The last of the naturally aspirated M3s, powered by a 4.0 liter V8 making 414hp and 295 lb-ft of torque.

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  #1  
Old 07-18-2009, 09:56 AM
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Kurt_OH Kurt_OH is offline
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Coupe vs. Sedan, weights

In the 335i, there is 23lbs difference between coupe and sedan.

In the M3, there is 22lbs.

Seems to me that:

1. Coupes should have a GREATER weight advantage generally
2. M3 coupe should have GREATER weight advantage than 335, or what the heck is the point with that roof?


Separately, why does the BMW web site list the M3 as sitting almost 2" taller than the 335? Does that seem odd to anyone else here? Is that correct?

Not here to kick the M3: I LOVE them, and want one. Wife has 335i now, which is a very nice car.
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  #2  
Old 07-18-2009, 10:05 AM
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M3 is higher? Hmmm does seem odd. Others will know more because I don't have either of those cars (yet).

I do know the "Supreme special edition M3 cars supposedly in production for 6 months and avilable in the US this month is .4 inches (metric and inches?) lower than other M3 cars.
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  #3  
Old 07-19-2009, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurt_OH View Post
In the 335i, there is 23lbs difference between coupe and sedan.

In the M3, there is 22lbs.

Seems to me that:

1. Coupes should have a GREATER weight advantage generally
2. M3 coupe should have GREATER weight advantage than 335, or what the heck is the point with that roof?


Separately, why does the BMW web site list the M3 as sitting almost 2" taller than the 335? Does that seem odd to anyone else here? Is that correct?

Not here to kick the M3: I LOVE them, and want one. Wife has 335i now, which is a very nice car.
Why? E46 sedan weighs less than the coupe, and the body is stiffer as well.
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  #4  
Old 07-19-2009, 08:48 PM
CliffJumper CliffJumper is offline
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G35 Sedan weighs less than G35 coupe (at least in 2004).

M3 is taller than a 335. I park my M3 next my gf's 335 sport pack (both sedans) regularly, and my car is definitely taller. With the bulging fenders, 19" wheels and bright blue color, my car looks like a caricature of her car...
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  #5  
Old 07-20-2009, 04:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 330i View Post
Why? E46 sedan weighs less than the coupe, and the body is stiffer as well.
Why? It's just a thought or sense of the purpose, in my thinking. A coupe is more focused on sportiness; sedan = "and my family".

Seems the sport focused would attempt to reduce the greatest enemy to sportiness: weight. Also, two less doors/hinges/frames.

That's it.

I also do NOT get why the c/f roof is in there?! Why does an M3 coupe weight closer to/greater than a sedan than other E9x 3 series? I presume it does, since WITH the CF roof the coupe/sedan diff. is about the same as other 3 series.
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Originally Posted by PhillyNate
I just love how a 4 year old car/design is STILL the benchmark which other automakers aspire to reach. Still winning comparisons . Still very much in the conversation. Is the E9x M3 a legend? You bet your @ss it is.
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  #6  
Old 07-20-2009, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Kurt_OH View Post
Why? It's just a thought or sense of the purpose, in my thinking. A coupe is more focused on sportiness; sedan = "and my family".

Seems the sport focused would attempt to reduce the greatest enemy to sportiness: weight. Also, two less doors/hinges/frames.

That's it.

I also do NOT get why the c/f roof is in there?! Why does an M3 coupe weight closer to/greater than a sedan than other E9x 3 series? I presume it does, since WITH the CF roof the coupe/sedan diff. is about the same as other 3 series.
The B piller gives the sedan greater stiffness. You know chassis stiffness gives a better sense of control in corners. The coupe's door is exeptional longer and shuts with less precision. Next time when you are in the dealer test shutting both the coupe and the sedan's doors and then tell me which car feels more solid. Granted, the coupe looks more sporty. Given a choice for a M3 coupe or sedan, the coupe would be my choice, but the sedan's chassis stiffer.
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  #7  
Old 07-20-2009, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 330i View Post
The B piller gives the sedan greater stiffness. You know chassis stiffness gives a better sense of control in corners. The coupe's door is exeptional longer and shuts with less precision. Next time when you are in the dealer test shutting both the coupe and the sedan's doors and then tell me which car feels more solid. Granted, the coupe looks more sporty. Given a choice for a M3 coupe or sedan, the coupe would be my choice, but the sedan's chassis stiffer.
The sedan is indeed slightly stiffer, but you'd never notice it unless you're an experienced driver taking a hard turn/corner on uneven pavement. I actually noticed the difference much more in the E46 than in the E9X.

FWIW, coupe doors never feel as "solid" as their sedan counterparts when shutting, but it doesn't always mean that the sedan has greater chassis rigidity.
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  #8  
Old 07-20-2009, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by TLudwig View Post
The sedan is indeed slightly stiffer, but you'd never notice it unless you're an experienced driver taking a hard turn/corner on uneven pavement. I actually noticed the difference much more in the E46 than in the E9X.

FWIW, coupe doors never feel as "solid" as their sedan counterparts when shutting, but it doesn't always mean that the sedan has greater chassis rigidity.
The shear fact that the B piller is there increases overall stiffness. The coupe's stiffness is only slightly better than the converitble.
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  #9  
Old 07-20-2009, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 330i View Post
The shear fact that the B piller is there increases overall stiffness.
The coupe has a B pillar too man; where the heck do you think the seat belts are anchored? It's not visible from the outside for styling reasons, but it's there (behind the glass). If sedan is stiffer (doubt it), it'd be insignificantly so. Coupe is longer though, so probably about the same weight as a sedan with sunroof IMO, and a bit lighter without. If you're anal about that, there should be detailed weight stats somewhere (car mags with calibrated scales are your best bet for accuracy).
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  #10  
Old 07-20-2009, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
The coupe has a B pillar too man; where the heck do you think the seat belts are anchored? It's not visible from the outside for styling reasons, but it's there (behind the glass). If sedan is stiffer (doubt it), it'd be insignificantly so. Coupe is longer though, so probably about the same weight as a sedan with sunroof.
Yes, the coupe does have a B-pillar, but the longer coupe door pushes it further back. Throughout the 3-series' history, the sedan frame has always been slightly stiffer than the coupe.
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  #11  
Old 07-20-2009, 04:17 PM
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The point of a carbon roof is also to help lower the center of gravity by dropping the weight at the highest level of the car.
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  #12  
Old 07-20-2009, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLudwig View Post
Yes, the coupe does have a B-pillar, but the longer coupe door pushes it further back. Throughout the 3-series' history, the sedan frame has always been slightly stiffer than the coupe.
That makes sense. Plus it's shorter too. Take care.
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  #13  
Old 07-20-2009, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pal View Post
The point of a carbon roof is also to help lower the center of gravity by dropping the weight at the highest level of the car.
Yea, by REMOVING the weight. I presume they don't take the metal out of the roof and add it to the floor!? :-)

The chassis stiffness is a valid comment that I've read elsewhere also; that and aerodynamics allegedly make the sedan the faster of the two in pretty much any speed competition. However, what I was asking is why the two vehicles' weights are so close, and what do they do to the M3 coupe so that even WITH a CF roof, it's STILL the same number of LBs different than the sedan - in other words, the M3 coupe with a steel roof would likely OUTWEIGH the sedan!?
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Originally Posted by PhillyNate
I just love how a 4 year old car/design is STILL the benchmark which other automakers aspire to reach. Still winning comparisons . Still very much in the conversation. Is the E9x M3 a legend? You bet your @ss it is.
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  #14  
Old 07-20-2009, 07:05 PM
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Kurt, it's difficult to say where the "extra" weight comes from. The coupe is 1.5" longer (all in the C-pillar/trunk area), but the sedan is almost 1.5" taller. The coupe may have more structural reinforcement to make up some of the chassis stiffness.

Interestingly, the coupe has closer to a 50/50 weight distribution, likely due to the longer tail end.
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Old 07-20-2009, 08:59 PM
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I also still don't "get" why the M3 is TALLER than the 335?! That one REALLY scrambles my brain.

Taller, heavier (even with an allegedly lighter than prior 6cyl engine) than 335 . . .

NOT that an M3 isn't clearly more desirable - I would love to have one, and would gladly swap our 335 for one tonight (uh, minus the $30k+ price diff between my used 335 and a new M3).

I'm just trying to learn/understand where the height and weight are coming from?!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyNate
I just love how a 4 year old car/design is STILL the benchmark which other automakers aspire to reach. Still winning comparisons . Still very much in the conversation. Is the E9x M3 a legend? You bet your @ss it is.
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  #16  
Old 07-22-2009, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurt_OH View Post
I also still don't "get" why the M3 is TALLER than the 335?! That one REALLY scrambles my brain.

Taller, heavier (even with an allegedly lighter than prior 6cyl engine) than 335 . . .

NOT that an M3 isn't clearly more desirable - I would love to have one, and would gladly swap our 335 for one tonight (uh, minus the $30k+ price diff between my used 335 and a new M3).

I'm just trying to learn/understand where the height and weight are coming from?!
I couldn't resist. It's the bigger brother? If you don't shut up, I'm going to beat the crap out of ya.
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  #17  
Old 07-22-2009, 04:31 PM
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The M3 comes with 18" tires standard where the 335 comes with 17".

Coupled that with the M3 having a different suspension.

The M3 sedan is 57" tall, the 335 sedan is 55.3. That is 1.7" difference, minus the tire size and your are at 1.2 inches. Again this could be the height with dampening control included, who knows? No big whoop either way. for all we know, the web site is a typo.
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Old 07-24-2009, 02:33 PM
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The M5 is taller then 530i and M6 is taller then non-sport 650i and so is the M3 taller then 335i. It is all because of the fact that M cars have bigger wheels + tires compared to regular standard versions of 3er, 5er, and 6er.
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Old 07-25-2009, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by NetSpySD View Post
The M3 comes with 18" tires standard where the 335 comes with 17".

Coupled that with the M3 having a different suspension.

The M3 sedan is 57" tall, the 335 sedan is 55.3. That is 1.7" difference, minus the tire size and your are at 1.2 inches. Again this could be the height with dampening control included, who knows? No big whoop either way. for all we know, the web site is a typo.
Without taking sagging due to extra weight of tire pressure, compare stock tires and wheels.

1st 2nd 3rd group below 225/45-18, 245/40-18, 265/40-18 respectively. Diamerter =Circumference/Pie

24.98" (stock 335i coupe) 25.72" (M3 fronts) 26.35" (M3 rears). Average out the front and rear of M3 = 26.04"
Difference in height between 335i coupe and M3 coupe is 26.04-24.98=1.05"

Stock Tire - 225/45R17 >Search Tires Tire 1 - 245/40R18 >Search Tires Tire 2 - 265/40R18 >Search Tires
Section Width: 8.85 in 225 mm
Section Width: 9.64 in 245 mm
Section Width: 10.43 in 265 mm

Rim Diameter: 17 in 431.8 mm
Rim Diameter: 18 in 457.2 mm
Rim Diameter: 18 in 457.2 mm

Rim Width Range: 7 - 8.5 in
Rim Width Range: 8 - 9.5 in
Rim Width Range: 9 - 10.5 in

Overall Diameter: 24.97 in 634.23 mm
Overall Diameter: 25.71 in 653.03 mm
Overall Diameter: 26.34 in 669.03 mm

Sidewall Height: 3.98 in 101.09 mm
Sidewall Height: 3.85 in 97.79 mm
Sidewall Height: 4.17 in 105.91 mm

Radius: 12.48 in 316.99 mm
Radius: 12.85 in 326.39 mm
Radius: 13.17 in 334.51 mm

Circumference: 78.44 in 1992.3 mm
Circumference: 80.77 in 2051.5 mm
Circumference: 82.74 in 2101.5 mm

Revs per Mile: 832.9
Revs per Mile: 809.0
Revs per Mile: 789.6

Actual Speed: 60 mph 100 km/h
Speedometer1: 58.2 mph 97.1 km/h
Speedometer1: 56.8 mph 94.8 km/h

Speedometer Difference: - Speedometer Difference: 2.954% too slow Speedometer Difference: 5.483% too slow
Diameter Difference: - Diameter Difference: 2.88% Diameter Difference: 5.21%
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Last edited by Dave 330i; 07-25-2009 at 08:49 AM.
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  #20  
Old 07-25-2009, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave 330i View Post
Difference in height between 335i coupe and M3 coupe is 26.04-24.98=1.05"
Difference in height would be HALF the overall diameter difference buddy, as the other half just reduces fender gap (wheels are attached in the middle, not at one end). Makes sense????

I'm sure speedo was recalibrated for the M3 as my error is 3.7%, which is perfectly normal, but if not, it'd be the difference in circumference between rear tires. Take care.
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  #21  
Old 07-25-2009, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elp_jc View Post
Difference in height would be HALF the overall diameter difference buddy, as the other half just reduces fender gap (wheels are attached in the middle, not at one end). Makes sense????

I'm sure speedo was recalibrated for the M3 as my error is 3.7%, which is perfectly normal, but if not, it'd be the difference in circumference between rear tires. Take care.
My bad. I got the right approach, but wrong answer, can't fault that in a physic exam.
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Swim upstream. Go the other way. Ignore the conventional wisdom. If everybody is doing it one way, there’s a good chance you can find your niche by going exactly in the opposite direction", Sam Walton.
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Old 07-26-2009, 05:06 AM
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The M3 is taller so when the potential customer is on the lot comparing the M3 to the 335 and asks why the M3 costs so much more, the dealer can say because it is taller.
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Old 07-26-2009, 05:08 AM
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The M3 is taller so when the potential customer is on the lot comparing the M3 to the 335 and asks why the M3 costs so much more, the dealer can say because it is taller.
and weighs more. And, in the sedan, you get two free doors.
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Old 07-26-2009, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave 330i View Post
and weighs more. And, in the sedan, you get two free doors.






Why are we arguing the merits of 22lbs difference on a car that weighs almost 2 tons, again?
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Old 07-27-2009, 07:17 PM
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Why are we arguing the merits of 22lbs difference on a car that weighs almost 2 tons, again?
1. It ISN'T about 22lbs. It's about why the coupe isn't 200lbs lighter. Isn't the coupe SUPPOSED to BE sportier? Or is it just LOOK sportier, but BE slower (which it is)?

2. It is ALSO about if the LB diff between coupe and sedan on 335 is 22lbs, then if the M3 coupe has a carbon roof, then shouldn't the LB diff on M3 coupe vs sedan be GREATER than the LB diff on 335 (no carbon roof on coupe)?!

3. If you don't think 1.7" matters, perhaps you should read all the crap put out by auto manufacturers about 10mm ride height reductions with their multi-thousand dollar sport suspensions. It matters a BUNCH. That's ~3% reduction in height and corresponding CG reduction.
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Originally Posted by PhillyNate
I just love how a 4 year old car/design is STILL the benchmark which other automakers aspire to reach. Still winning comparisons . Still very much in the conversation. Is the E9x M3 a legend? You bet your @ss it is.
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