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The Detail Department
Detailing tips, tricks to keep your bimmer in showroom condition.

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  #1  
Old 03-20-2002, 02:51 PM
Nat Brown Nat Brown is offline
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The truth about Zaino (long)

There's a lot of misinformation and misunderstanding about the Zaino system. I've only been using it a short time, but the reality of this stuff is not what you would think from reading this board. Let me clear up a couple of misconceptions.

MISCONCEPTION #1



It's Expensive

Zaino is not expensive; it's comparably priced. To properly Zaino your car, it's recommended that you go through similar steps as you would with a wax system. First you clay bar, then you apply polish lok, followed by polish, and a gloss enhancer. The wax equivalent is similar: clay bar, polish, wax, enhancer (like McGuire's Final Inspection). For novices with no detailing experience, all these steps might seem extreme. For car care veterans, these steps make sense, and the only difference is the application method between the two processes.

Let's break down the cost:

ZAINO
8.95 Z1 Polish Lok
16.95 Z5 Polish
9.95 Z6 Gloss Enhancer Spray
16.95 Z18 Clay Bar
=====
$52.80


CONVENTIONAL WAXING (prices from Motorhead.net for smallest sized items)
10.59 3M Imperial Hand Glaze (polish)
13.99 One Grand Blitz Wax (wax)
5.99 McGuires Final Inspection #34 (enhancer)
24.99 3M Perfect-It III Cleaner Clay (clay)
=====
$55.56


MISCONCEPTION #2



It's difficult to use

Zaino is easier to use. Washing and clay barring are the same in both methods, but when it comes to polish, Zaino really shines. With conventional waxing, you apply your polish, let it dry, and then buff off your polish. Then you apply your wax, let it dry, and buff off your wax. Then you spray down the car with Final Inspection or something similar. This is a lot of work!

With Zaino, you apply a thin coat of polish lok, let it dry, then appy a coat of polish on top of that. You then buff out the coating when it's dry. This removed a step, one that take a great deal of work. The gloss enhancer spray has the same effect as a Final Inspection product.

Zaino has the added bonus that it the shine will improved with added applications. This is not true with wax. A second coat of wax won't help your shine -- the car can only take so much wax. For those who don't want to add multiple coats of Zaino, that's fine. It's not required.

MISCONCEPTION #3



It lasts just as long as wax, so why bother?

Before thewaxtest.com went down, they had tested Zaino against a variety of conventional waxes. After several months of outdoor exposure, all the conventional waxes were wearing off, while the Zaino was shiny and going strong. Although there needs to be more testing, it's clear that Zaino outlasts wax.


FINAL ANALYSIS

So if it costs less, is easier to put on, and lasts longer, why are there so many naysayers?

1. FEAR. People fear the unknown, and if grandpa waxed the Chevy with Mother's California Gold Wax, it's good enough for me.

2. LAZINESS. People who buy their wax at Pep Boys and think a clay bar is where gumby picks up chicks are likely to be daunted by both the conventional waxing procedure and the Zaino treatment. Zaino doesn't require a lot of work, but it requires traditional detailing steps that many car owners find excessive.

3. CONFUSION. The Zaino web site is a disaster area, with Z's flying all over the place. Even after reading the site it's easy to order the wrong products, too many products, or nothing at all out of confusion. Sal Zaino is his own worst enemy when it comes to sales and marketing and he needs to document his product better, and set up some e-commerce to help people buy his wares.

That's my armchair analysis!

--gary
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  #2  
Old 03-20-2002, 02:57 PM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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Re: The truth about Zaino (long)

Quote:
Originally posted by Nat Brown
It lasts just as long as wax, so why bother?

Before thewaxtest.com went down, they had tested Zaino against a variety of conventional waxes. After several months of outdoor exposure, all the conventional waxes were wearing off, while the Zaino was shiny and going strong. Although there needs to be more testing, it's clear that Zaino outlasts wax.
Very nice write up :thumb:

Take a look at this pic of my car. As I took it, the car was Z'd 3 months before.

Click

You be the judge.

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Last edited by Alex Baumann; 03-20-2002 at 02:59 PM.
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  #3  
Old 03-20-2002, 05:13 PM
in_d_haus in_d_haus is offline
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Re: The truth about Zaino (long)

I have to take exception with your analysis.

Quote:
Originally posted by Nat Brown
MISCONCEPTION #1

(snip)... To properly Zaino your car, it's recommended that you go through similar steps as you would with a wax system. First you clay bar, then you apply polish lok, followed by polish, and a gloss enhancer. The wax equivalent is similar: clay bar, polish, wax, enhancer (like McGuire's Final Inspection).


I don't use a "gloss enhancer", just clay, polish, and wax.


MISCONCEPTION #2

It's difficult to use

(snip) ... With conventional waxing, you apply your polish, let it dry, and then buff off your polish. Then you apply your wax, let it dry, and buff off your wax. Then you spray down the car with Final Inspection or something similar. This is a lot of work!


I don't (and you shouldn't) allow polish to dry on your car.
I also don't apply a gloss enhancer (see #1)

FINAL ANALYSIS

So if it costs less, is easier to put on, and lasts longer, why are there so many naysayers?

1. FEAR. People fear the unknown, and if grandpa waxed the Chevy with Mother's California Gold Wax, it's good enough for me.

2. LAZINESS. People who buy their wax at Pep Boys and think a clay bar is where gumby picks up chicks are likely to be daunted by both the conventional waxing procedure and the Zaino treatment. Zaino doesn't require a lot of work, but it requires traditional detailing steps that many car owners find excessive.

3. CONFUSION. The Zaino web site is a disaster area, with Z's flying all over the place. Even after reading the site it's easy to order the wrong products, too many products, or nothing at all out of confusion. Sal Zaino is his own worst enemy when it comes to sales and marketing and he needs to document his product better, and set up some e-commerce to help people buy his wares.

That's my armchair analysis!

--gary

I'm glad that you are very pleased with the results that you get with Zaino. I'm very pleased with the result I get with the products I use (and have trophys to show for it)

DON'T call me scared, lazy, or confused because I don't choose to use the same product you do!!!! It's MY money and I'll spend it on whatever products I care to!

Haus
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  #4  
Old 03-20-2002, 05:27 PM
Nat Brown Nat Brown is offline
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Re: Re: The truth about Zaino (long)

Quote:
Originally posted by in_d_haus
I have to take exception with your analysis.
In no way am I implying that conventional waxing is inferior, nor am I implying that those who don't use Zaino don't use it because of the factors I mentioned.

What I am saying is that there is a gross distortion of how this product works, and there are people who regularly demonstrate reactionary judgements about Zaino and those who use it, as if it's a cult of insane polish madmen who spend every waking moment on their cars. This is simply not the case.

As someone who recent found this product helpful and who thought about using it for over a year before adopting it, I can say that it's cheaper, easier and demonstrates superior results than conventional waxing. I was surprised to find this was the case and thought others might also find this enlightening.

--gary
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  #5  
Old 03-20-2002, 05:51 PM
in_d_haus in_d_haus is offline
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Re: Re: Re: The truth about Zaino (long)

Quote:
Originally posted by Nat Brown
as if it's a cult of insane polish madmen who spend every waking moment on their cars. This is simply not the case.
--gary
Were not ???? Rip?... Al?...

Ok Gary, point(s) taken.

Peace :thumb:
Haus
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  #6  
Old 03-20-2002, 06:03 PM
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Emission Emission is offline
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Personally, I think Zaino and all other clay/wax/polish systems are a waste of time.

I wash my car every weekend with lots of sudsy water and a soft sponge. I dry with a water blade and cotton towels. If I get a wild hair, I will spray some $4.95 spray wax on my hood, roof, and trunk. Wow, does she shine...

My car looks brand-new.

Now, do you think I have it easy because my car is silver, I live in Los Angeles (almost no rain this year), and my car is garaged? You bet I do!

If you use Zaino (or any other wax system) depends on more than just being lazy, cheap, or confused. It depends on where you drive your car, if you garage it, and what color it is.
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  #7  
Old 03-20-2002, 06:34 PM
blackdawg blackdawg is offline
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funny. i usually buy based on the vendor, not the OEM manufacturer.

i like the products that classic motoring carries and right now i'm pleased with blackfire. it's a polymer concept, and the cerebral nature of the system just appeals to me.

but at certain pricepoints, there hasn't been one product better than the rest. it's the method and not the product, which seems to make the difference.

'am glad you sorted out the misconceptions about zaino, though. sounds like it works for you. i try 3 different systems on three different cars and it's fun to compare. in the end: is there a quantum difference? nope.
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Old 03-20-2002, 06:42 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
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your argument is flawed.

point 1 price:

1a:
the clay bar kit you quote is the most expensive one I've ever heard of. it's probably one of the more difficult ones to find as well. the Mother's kit can be had for ~$14 at any pep boys or kragen. furthermore, it comes with a Final Inspection equivalent. there's also a meguiars kit that is similarly priced and comes with the detailer spray as well. the adjusted total price for comparison is really $38.56, making zaino more expensive by $14.24. if you factor in the extra cost of ZFX over Z1, add another $11 to the $52.20 to make $63.20. this makes zaino *more* expensive (in YOUR comparison) by almost $25.

1b:
for most people, the IHG (or even meguair's show car glaze) will be a one time purchase and will likely pushed to the back of the cabinet and replaced with another brand before it actually runs out. for the people that do go through this like water, it is available in bulk quantities, saving even more money.

so once people depleat their original supply, the next "refresher" batch of supplies will be *less* with the meguair's system.

1c:
you didn't factor in car wash. that is probably going to be the product that you go through the most of. again, meguiar's can be purchased in bulk (I had a gallon that lasted ~1.75 years on two cars). the cost factor of zaino will really add up over time (beyond initial purchase) as will the cost of the Z6 spray. final inspection is available in gallons to save even more money.

point 2 difficult to use
since you only really need to polish once or maybe twice a year, your statement is misleading. except for the once a year ritual of doing a full on cleaning, all you really need to do is wash and wax. this is in fact LESS work than the zaino system. if the new ZFX is used, then it's the SAME amount of work (excluding the one to two times a year you do a full 3 step job).

point 3 lasts just as long as wax per waxtest.com
well, the difference between what thewaxtest did and real life is driving the car through different weather conditions and lots of road debris. while zaino may indeed last as long if not longer than a good carnauba or even another polymer for that matter, your argument is still flawed. case in point is the P21S wax. they got outstanding results with it and it even lasted a long time but for people who actually use their cars as a daily driver, the wax just doesn't stand up. this has been supported by posts on teh org as well as on autopia and even from vendors like carcareonline who sell ALL of the brands.


your conclusion
points 1 and 2 seem more inflamatory than anything else.

you hit right on about sal zaino. no argument. not accepting credit cards or even paypal is really cumbersome to the consumer. he may be intentionaly throttling his sales though since he does consider this to be "...an enthusiast product...."


none the less, thank you for your honest review.

Last edited by 31st330i; 03-20-2002 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 03-20-2002, 07:20 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
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another comment on price....

I'm a brand new user of zaino and the check I sent them was for almost exactly $100. I purchased the ZFX which is in liu of and more expenzive than the Z1. granted, I ordered QTY 2 of Z6 and Z7 but that's only because these high volume products come from zaino in thimble size.

to *refresh* my meguiar's supply would have cost (based on prices from carcareonline.com):

$20.25 - 1 gallon of #62 car wash
$19.80 - 1 gallon #34 of final inspection spray
$18.00 - one 16oz bottle of medallion wax (which is actually a polymer/carnauba blend giving us the best of both worlds)

total $58.05


a future zaino refresh using HALF the wash and spray quantities of meguiar's

$19.95 - ZFX
$16.95 - Z5
$39.80 - four 16oz bottles (half gallon) of Z6
$31.80 - four 16oz bottles (half gallon) of Z7

total $108 - nearly TWICE the price for half the amount of wash and spray
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Old 03-20-2002, 07:48 PM
ict330xi ict330xi is offline
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I have been using Zaino on my cars for 1 year now and although I find the ordering process, yes, cumbersome, it isnt that bad. I mail the form and the check and it gets to me within a week. It really isnt a problem-much easier than going to a parts store 10 miles away. I also find the products easy to use and they smell good. One of the things that I reallly like as opposed to a wax, is that if you get it on the black trim its easy to get off.

As for the cost factor-BFD, I drive a 43,000 car.

Is it really necessary as Emission points out-well probably not, but I enjoy fiddling around with the car.

I am not saying its better than other products, I just like it and would never rag on someone who uses the other great products out there. I dont think anyone else is trying to say that or do that either.

Nice review Gary!
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Old 03-20-2002, 08:01 PM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ict330xi
As for the cost factor-BFD, I drive a 43,000 car.
sorry but that's BS reasoning not unlike K&N junk science.

just because on has an expensive car doesn't dictate the need to buy expensive car care products to get the SAME or similar end result. it's not like I'm arguing that you go buy the least expensive turtle wax possible. besides, our cars have no emotions and will never know we skimped on price (wait... I think Dinan has an "emotions" upgrade in the works).

at this point, I remain neutral and will will remain neutral untill several months after I've applied the zaino that I presently have on order.
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Old 03-21-2002, 01:22 AM
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Re: The truth about Zaino (long)

Quote:
[i]

3. CONFUSION. The Zaino web site is a disaster area, with Z's flying all over the place.

That's my armchair analysis!

--gary [/B]

What's wrong with Z's flying all over the place? Sounds like a great time to me. :thumb: :thumb:
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Old 03-21-2002, 01:56 AM
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Well, I just Zaino-ed my new steel grey 325i...

All I can say is that it's easier to remove than Klasse, and looks a bit better (it's less artificial looking). However, the difference between no Zaino and Zaino is so subtle that given a comparison in broad daylight, I'd be hard pressed to find a difference until I go up and touch the paint. I can only see a difference when the light gets low--then I can see how shinny it is by all the lights that reflect off. On the other hand, any good wax gives the same results.

AND, I'd have to say that Zaino IS expensive. Very expensive. I spent over $120 on a moderate supply that should last me a few years. I'm not a total detail freak so I don't use the QD Z6 spray except between layering, but I do wash often, and the price of Z7 may eventually kill the Z system for me.

The two bottles of Klasse AIO an SG I have, will last perhaps as long as the car. Probably longer now that I only use it to wax the wheels. The only thing I don't like about Klasse, and why I chose Zaino over it, is that the SG is very difficult to remove, and takes a long time to dry. Zaino with ZFX is just wipe on, wait 5 min, and wipe off with minimal effort. I don't mind using the Z6 between as it gets off any residue I miss the first time. Other people say it's excessive, and to an extent I believe it. (It is really good at keeping dust off the car if you use it just right though; anti-static properties seem to lessen pickup by 20-30%; can really see it because of all the pollen that is usually around)

So why did I buy it for the price? Well actually I got it just because of the hype. Compared to what I hear, I’m very disappointed. But if it weren’t for the price I’d say it has a significant lead over all the synthetics I’ve tried. (haven’t tried Blackfire yet) I like the feel of it the best. It leaves a very slick coat that Klasse can’t quite match. The kind that makes people go oooooh… The non-trim staining nature of it is a very high plus, as is durability, which with three coats seems to last half a year on other vehicles I’ve tried.

Overall unfortunately, I’ll still have to say that Pinnacle Souveran actually looks better, and applies even easier. If it weren’t for the durability I’d use that. I might switch back to it when my supply of Z runs out and I think I can keep up with monthly waxing. But then again I like hearing my neighbors say:

“you spent $120 on just WAX???” :thumb:
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Old 03-21-2002, 05:52 AM
ict330xi ict330xi is offline
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31 your are right!
"sorry but that's BS reasoning not unlike K&N junk science. "

I did a poor job of stating my point. It's only a few bucks one way or the other for the different pdts. And if you only apply maybe 3-4 times a year, the price is negligible.

I too, as I tried to say am neutral, but for myself I like Zaino because of the intangibles (ease, smell, results in my hands) and I totally agree with you about the ability of buying in bulk with many of the other products.:thumb:
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Old 03-21-2002, 06:09 AM
Guest84 Guest84 is offline
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I don't usually "promote" any particular wax because its my belief that it's more important to properly prepare the finish, and have a good application/removal process of any product.

However, since your naming numbers, Griots Garage starter kit includes the following:

16 ounce Car Wash
35 ounce Wheel Cleaner with Finest Sprayer cleaning sponge
16 ounce Best of Show Wax®
8 ounce bar of Paint Cleaning Clay
35 ounce Speed Shine®
8 ounces of Vinyl & Rubber Dressing.

Cost $59.00

Now if you measure that up to Zaino, Zaino is quite a bit more expensive.

Now, personally, I would also purchase either Griots Carnauba wax or P21S Carnauba in place of the Best of Show wax, and add P21S Paint Cleaner to this equation.

Other than that, I prefer natural waxes to polymers simply because my car is not exposed to the elements as harshly as others may be..polymers do have increased longevity, but thats a non-factor because the TLC my finish gets, garaged, never driven in snow or when the roads have been sanded, etc., I get the same longevity out of Carnauba-based waxes.

Last edited by Guest84; 03-21-2002 at 06:20 AM.
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Old 03-21-2002, 06:21 AM
Guest84 Guest84 is offline
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Incidently, this thread should be in the Detail forum.
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Old 03-21-2002, 06:26 AM
Alex Baumann Alex Baumann is offline
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I'm living in one of the most rainy regions in Germany and I've used every kinda carnauba wax (except fr*cking expensive Zymol crap). Nothing has beaten the durability and the shine of Zaino till yet.

Application ? Bah ! Zaino is like butter. Easy to apply, easy to buff off. Since I can't find Meguiar's in my part of the world, I don't want to speculate on it. (I'd like to try their polymer based products though)

Price ? Non importante. I have almost 6-7 coats on the paint and there's enough stuff for another 15 in the bottles for the next year. I paid about $80 for Z1,Z2,Z5 and Z6. $80 in two years is too much ? Don't think so. That makes less then $4 in a month.
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Old 03-21-2002, 06:28 AM
Sjumper Sjumper is offline
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I don't find the ordering process difficult at all. But then, I deal with their distributor in Canada. I fax them my order with my credit card number . They courier it to my door.

As far as application, I like it much better than normal wax because it doesn't leave the white stuff on the trim. I wish I can get back all the time that I wasted trying to pick out all the white residue from the car when I used to use Zymol. There are still some of the sh*t in deep cracks.

The stuff really does last. The last time I applied Zaino on my car was in early September. Today, when I touch the paint, I can still feel the slickness when I remove the dirt on the surface with my finger. And I haven't even washed it since September! On the other hand, my Subaru that got the normal wax treatment from the dealer (I told delivery of it in mid-November) looked and felt rough after a couple of weeks of snow and salt.

The price is a little steep but I have used very small quantities. I think it will last me for a few years. Remeber, THIN coats.
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Old 03-21-2002, 06:32 AM
JPinTO JPinTO is offline
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ARRRGGHGHGHHGHGHH!!!!

Alex & SJumper----- You B@ST@RDS!

I was going to order P21S.... now I read your comments I'm thinking of ordering Zaino. This BETTER NOT BE RAINBOW WAX!
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Old 03-21-2002, 06:39 AM
Sjumper Sjumper is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by JPinTO
ARRRGGHGHGHHGHGHH!!!!

Alex & SJumper----- You B@ST@RDS!

I was going to order P21S.... now I read your comments I'm thinking of ordering Zaino. This BETTER NOT BE RAINBOW WAX!
Come on, JP. If Mr. SitOnTheFence (AKA Alex) has an opinion on this topic, you gotta believe him.

Just go visit their website (Canadian distributor):

http://www.car-fanatic.com/

Download the ordering form and fax it to them.
Glad I can help:thumb:

p.s. I am getting some new wheels from the boys at Steelcase Tire n' Mags. Fun guys to deal with. LONG wait for the rims to come in. This is for my crappy Subaru.
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Old 03-21-2002, 07:06 AM
Guest84 Guest84 is offline
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Next time your at a car show, do a quick poll with the owners of the auto's. Ask them 'Polymer or Carnauba'. I think you'll be surprised.

Both are great, polymers just outlast Carnauba's.
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Old 03-21-2002, 07:17 AM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by ict330xi
31 your are right!
"sorry but that's BS reasoning not unlike K&N junk science. "

I did a poor job of stating my point. It's only a few bucks one way or the other for the different pdts. And if you only apply maybe 3-4 times a year, the price is negligible.

I too, as I tried to say am neutral, but for myself I like Zaino because of the intangibles (ease, smell, results in my hands) and I totally agree with you about the ability of buying in bulk with many of the other products.:thumb:

well, I agree with you on color choice!!
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Old 03-21-2002, 07:21 AM
31st330i 31st330i is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ripsnort
...because its my belief that it's more important to properly prepare the finish, and have a good application/removal process of any product.
YES!!!!

and that's part of what gives zaino users the results. they (you/we) all seem to follow the same *process* and get decent results every time. but I've been getting good results with meguir's as well because of process/technique.
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  #24  
Old 03-21-2002, 07:49 AM
JPinTO JPinTO is offline
2001 M3:Stick, what else?
Location: Toronto
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,301
Mein Auto: ///MMMmmm good
Quote:
Originally posted by Sjumper

p.s. I am getting some new wheels from the boys at Steelcase Tire n' Mags. Fun guys to deal with. LONG wait for the rims to come in. This is for my crappy Subaru.
Steelcase has the best deals in the city. They can get stuff from Tire Rack in the USA for comparable amounts as being in the US.

I got a set of Sumitomo HTRZ2 for my 323i a few weeks ago from them for a great deal. They also ordered a set of ML55 wheels for my M-Class from Tirerack. Dave the owner is a good guy.
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  #25  
Old 03-21-2002, 08:21 AM
Nat Brown Nat Brown is offline
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Location: SF Bay Area
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 590
Mein Auto: 05 Dodge Magnum RT
Arguments and Counter-arguments

I made my original post into a web page:

http://www.bariaur.com/e39/zaino.html

I've added more price analsysis and counter-arguments about Zaino. It goes something like this: yes, ounce for ounce, Zaino is twice as expensive, but the reasoning is that it lasts twice as long (or at least significantly longer).

Anyway, check out the revisions. If you want to write a counter-argument, and it's reasonably well argued (not, Gary is a moron so...), I'll be happy to post it on my web page.

--gary
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