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  #1  
Old 08-29-2009, 02:43 PM
335ix09 335ix09 is offline
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Exclamation Dealer Says 21K Oil Change OK????

My 2009 335 that I purchased 01/09 turned 16,500 miles this week (yes it is my dailer driver) and the oil change indicator still says I have 4,500 mies left. I called the dealer and servie advisor said I have to wait until car tells me I need an oil change (even though that would be 21,000 miles) before they'de cover cost under scheduled maintenance. I reminded service advisor that manually states 15k or 1yr for oil change, whichever comes first, but he repeated that they go by what the car says!!!

Luckily having plans to keep the car until at least 100k I did do an oil change myself with BMW filter and oil purchased through internet from another BMW dealership but my dealer doesn't know this. I also had this oil analyzed through blackstone which suggested that I can extend changes to 10K miles not 21,000!!!!!!!!!

Just for the record my secret oil change did not change the number of miles left before the next oil change.

I am just appalled that the dealership could, with a straight face, tell me that a 21K oil change is O.K. for a twin turbo $50K auto. So much for their legendary free maintenance!
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  #2  
Old 08-29-2009, 03:00 PM
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paximperium paximperium is offline
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Any BMW dealership can perform the oil change. My dealership has an online service reservation with "Annual Oil Change-Do not reset Oil Service Indicator" so I get 1 and half oil changes a year from them using my mileage and annual oil change. BMW HQ sent a clarification concerning the annual oil change a few years back and if these dealers are ignorant of it, they aren't too competent or are being dishonest.

Any dealership that pulls this BS should have a complaint sent to BMW central and then go find another dealership that are not idiots.
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  #3  
Old 08-29-2009, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335ix09 View Post
My 2009 335 that I purchased 01/09 turned 16,500 miles this week (yes it is my dailer driver) and the oil change indicator still says I have 4,500 mies left. I called the dealer and servie advisor said I have to wait until car tells me I need an oil change (even though that would be 21,000 miles) before they'de cover cost under scheduled maintenance. I reminded service advisor that manually states 15k or 1yr for oil change, whichever comes first, but he repeated that they go by what the car says!!!

Luckily having plans to keep the car until at least 100k I did do an oil change myself with BMW filter and oil purchased through internet from another BMW dealership but my dealer doesn't know this. I also had this oil analyzed through blackstone which suggested that I can extend changes to 10K miles not 21,000!!!!!!!!!

Just for the record my secret oil change did not change the number of miles left before the next oil change.

I am just appalled that the dealership could, with a straight face, tell me that a 21K oil change is O.K. for a twin turbo $50K auto. So much for their legendary free maintenance!
Your secret is a secret here on the internet.
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  #4  
Old 08-29-2009, 04:29 PM
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IF you really want to keep your car for 100K, you are deluding yourself if you think that 15K oil changes are just fine REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE DEALER SAYS AND WHAT THE SENSOR INDICATES. Synthetic oil(and the oil used by BMW, Mobil1 and others is not 100% synthetic) can easily go 7.5K -10K without issue. But after that the non synthetic element starts to break down and sludge accumulation is possible as well as loss of full lubricating protection Oil is not that expensive. Use a good quality synthetic(100% synthetics are available) and change it at 7.5k or sooner and you car might just last 100k with out engine issues. If not, you will reap the consequences.

Last edited by DrGP; 08-29-2009 at 04:32 PM.
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  #5  
Old 08-29-2009, 04:38 PM
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I pay for one every 7.5K and then take the freebie.
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  #6  
Old 08-29-2009, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by johnc_22 View Post
I pay for one every 7.5K and then take the freebie.
+1
Same here
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  #7  
Old 08-29-2009, 06:13 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by deznium View Post
+1
Same here
+2. If you want your car to go to 100,000 miles and beyond, you are going to have to change the engine oil and filter more frequently than the oil sensor/change algorithm says to. Use your Blackstone test result as a guide. If you are approaching the 10,000 mile threshold since your last change, you might change the oil and filter on the sly and send a sample along to Blackstone labs to see how the oil survived the 10,000 miles.

My Magic 8 Ball says that your oil at the 10,000 mile mark will be close to failing the specification for 5w-30 oil if that is what you filled with.

Also, replace the oil with an oil that meets the BMW LL04 specification.
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  #8  
Old 08-29-2009, 08:06 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGP View Post
IF you really want to keep your car for 100K, you are deluding yourself if you think that 15K oil changes are just fine REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE DEALER SAYS AND WHAT THE SENSOR INDICATES. Synthetic oil(and the oil used by BMW, Mobil1 and others is not 100% synthetic) can easily go 7.5K -10K without issue. But after that the non synthetic element starts to break down and sludge accumulation is possible as well as loss of full lubricating protection Oil is not that expensive. Use a good quality synthetic(100% synthetics are available) and change it at 7.5k or sooner and you car might just last 100k with out engine issues. If not, you will reap the consequences.
Perspective for ya: My Ford diesel's coming up on 300K mi soon; had it's first out of warranty problem - alternator worn out. Regular oil changes + 30K mi maint only.

I'd expect BMW's diesel to match that. Gas with nickosil cylinders might do the same.

Anyone know about 3 Series' cylinder spec?
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2009, 09:44 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Perspective for ya: My Ford diesel's coming up on 300K mi soon; had it's first out of warranty problem - alternator worn out. Regular oil changes + 30K mi maint only.

I'd expect BMW's diesel to match that. Gas with nickosil cylinders might do the same.

Anyone know about 3 Series' cylinder spec?
And what was the frequency of the 'regular oil changes'?
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  #10  
Old 08-29-2009, 11:44 PM
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Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGP View Post
IF you really want to keep your car for 100K, you are deluding yourself if you think that 15K oil changes are just fine REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE DEALER SAYS AND WHAT THE SENSOR INDICATES. Synthetic oil(and the oil used by BMW, Mobil1 and others is not 100% synthetic) can easily go 7.5K -10K without issue. But after that the non synthetic element starts to break down and sludge accumulation is possible as well as loss of full lubricating protection Oil is not that expensive. Use a good quality synthetic(100% synthetics are available) and change it at 7.5k or sooner and you car might just last 100k with out engine issues. If not, you will reap the consequences.
counterpoint: my E46 330i is closing in on 150K miles, oil changed according to the OBC ~13-14K mile interval. does not burn oil. by all accounts, the engine should have blown up by now. average fuel econ is sitting at 24mpg with a 70/30 city highway mix.

the oil change interval wasnt planned, it was my lease that was bought out and given to my brother, who wouldnt know synthetic oil from peanut oil.
he gets an indy near him to change the oil when the computer tells him to. i check the car over whenever i visit, it has not had any engine oil issues, just the normal E46 trouble spots, control arms at 60K miles, blown window regulators, alternator at ~140K miles, preventative replacement of water pump, etc.

it'll probably get replaced due to him getting tired of it rather than anything catastrophic happening...
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  #11  
Old 08-30-2009, 06:20 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC View Post
counterpoint: my E46 330i is closing in on 150K miles, oil changed according to the OBC ~13-14K mile interval. does not burn oil. by all accounts, the engine should have blown up by now. average fuel econ is sitting at 24mpg with a 70/30 city highway mix.

the oil change interval wasnt planned, it was my lease that was bought out and given to my brother, who wouldnt know synthetic oil from peanut oil.
he gets an indy near him to change the oil when the computer tells him to. i check the car over whenever i visit, it has not had any engine oil issues, just the normal E46 trouble spots, control arms at 60K miles, blown window regulators, alternator at ~140K miles, preventative replacement of water pump, etc.

it'll probably get replaced due to him getting tired of it rather than anything catastrophic happening...
Oil life depends on the operating environment the engine is subjected to. Without a used oil analysis, it basically speculation as to why the engine has reached the 150,000 mile mark. Also, a single sample is rarely predictive of a trend. I would imagine that there are examples of E46s that were maintained just like your E46 that didn't make it to 100,000 miles.
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  #12  
Old 08-30-2009, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC View Post
counterpoint: my E46 330i is closing in on 150K miles, oil changed according to the OBC ~13-14K mile interval. does not burn oil. by all accounts, the engine should have blown up by now. average fuel econ is sitting at 24mpg with a 70/30 city highway mix.

the oil change interval wasnt planned, it was my lease that was bought out and given to my brother, who wouldnt know synthetic oil from peanut oil.
he gets an indy near him to change the oil when the computer tells him to. i check the car over whenever i visit, it has not had any engine oil issues, just the normal E46 trouble spots, control arms at 60K miles, blown window regulators, alternator at ~140K miles, preventative replacement of water pump, etc.

it'll probably get replaced due to him getting tired of it rather than anything catastrophic happening...
the practice is a gamble not worth doing. The best case senerio is that the car is fine, the worst case will be that engine needs an overhaul or replacement. An oil change every 5k miles or so is only around $100. Its cheap insurance, and it makes you feel good, too.
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2009, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGP View Post
IF you really want to keep your car for 100K, you are deluding yourself if you think that 15K oil changes are just fine REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE DEALER SAYS AND WHAT THE SENSOR INDICATES. Synthetic oil(and the oil used by BMW, Mobil1 and others is not 100% synthetic) can easily go 7.5K -10K without issue. But after that the non synthetic element starts to break down and sludge accumulation is possible as well as loss of full lubricating protection Oil is not that expensive. Use a good quality synthetic(100% synthetics are available) and change it at 7.5k or sooner and you car might just last 100k with out engine issues. If not, you will reap the consequences.
Market of fear is alive - and you prove it. Stop the madness.

You are deluding yourself if you think that you know better than BMW, Mercedes and Porsche.

They have been specifying very long oil changes for 15 years and there was no consequence REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU SUGGEST.
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  #14  
Old 08-30-2009, 07:30 AM
jxsanche jxsanche is offline
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In my case I took the car for an oil change when it had 15000 miles (the computer said I still could go for another 2000). Dealer changed oil but when I got the car back I noticed that the service indicator in the car said I only had 3000 miles left on this new oil. 2000 miles later when I hit 17000 miles I started getting the "service soon" message when you start the car. I figured that the dealer just forgot to reset the service interval in the computer. However when I took it back to the dealer he said that they need to do what the car says, so they changed the oil again. I'm now at 19000 miles and the computer says I have 12000 more to go.

Cheers,
Julian

P.S. at 13000 miles I did get a message in the computer telling me to add one quart of oil, which I did. So probably going 15k miles between oil changes in my particular car (other cars lose oil at different rates) may not be a good idea.
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  #15  
Old 08-30-2009, 07:35 AM
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I'd expect these cars to go 100k miles without oil related failures EASILY with 20k oil changes. It's that second 100k miles that'll be tough.

If making it 100k miles is the standard, I am apparently WAY overestimating these cars. I expect 200k+ before worrying about any oil-related part.
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Perspective for ya: My Ford diesel's coming up on 300K mi soon; had it's first out of warranty problem - alternator worn out. Regular oil changes + 30K mi maint only.

I'd expect BMW's diesel to match that. Gas with nikasil cylinders might do the same.

Anyone know about 3 Series' cylinder spec?
Come on! You can't compare the longevity of a diesel engine to a gas powered engine. They are completely different engines. Diesels are Known for their longevity, gas engines are not. BTW, the N54 335i engine does NOT have nikasil or alusil cylinderwalls. It is Alum(not alum alloy) with cast iron sleves. Most other BMW and German engines are alum alloy with alusil linings.

Lets suffice it to say that most people do not keep their cars long enough to see the consequences of 10K+ oil change intervals. Those that do see the consequences are the owners that buy the cars used. It is a very prudent investment to have your oil change every 5k-10K based on usage as long as you are using a good quality synthetic. My guess is that if you were looking at 2 identical used cars and could have the service records of both(without seeing any oil analysis). You would not buy the car whose owner changed oil every 15K or longer. At least I would't

Last edited by DrGP; 08-30-2009 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 08-30-2009, 07:59 AM
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As I said, BMW MErcedes and Porsche have been living with 15000miles+ oil changes for a long time. Large majority of 10+ yo cars of these brands on the roads follow this schedule. If there would be problems (REAL problems), we all would know by now.

I trust that those cars won't ever have oil-related problems in their lifetime - and that means 12 years / 200 000 miles easily.
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Old 08-30-2009, 02:18 PM
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xtremecruiser xtremecruiser is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrGP View Post
IF you really want to keep your car for 100K, you are deluding yourself if you think that 15K oil changes are just fine REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE DEALER SAYS AND WHAT THE SENSOR INDICATES. Synthetic oil(and the oil used by BMW, Mobil1 and others is not 100% synthetic) can easily go 7.5K -10K without issue. But after that the non synthetic element starts to break down and sludge accumulation is possible as well as loss of full lubricating protection Oil is not that expensive. Use a good quality synthetic(100% synthetics are available) and change it at 7.5k or sooner and you car might just last 100k with out engine issues. If not, you will reap the consequences.
+100k
5 oil changes in 100k miles, your car wont last much longer than that
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Old 08-30-2009, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
As I said, BMW MErcedes and Porsche have been living with 15000miles+ oil changes for a long time. Large majority of 10+ yo cars of these brands on the roads follow this schedule. If there would be problems (REAL problems), we all would know by now.

I trust that those cars won't ever have oil-related problems in their lifetime - and that means 12 years / 200 000 miles easily.
Bad advice.
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Old 08-30-2009, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by xtremecruiser View Post
+100k
5 oil changes in 100k miles, your car wont last much longer than that
Any evidence or just your guess?

(Pssst. pssst....they have been doing this for almost 15 yrs! )
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  #21  
Old 08-30-2009, 03:00 PM
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http://www.millionmilechevy.com/Once...il_Change.html

Quote:
Million Mile Chevy

I've Driven My 1999 Chevy Van...Over 1,106,000 Miles...Made In The USA

May 18, 2008...At 2 AM CST...I-94 / Exit 10... In Roberts, WI...Odometer Turned 999,999 Miles!

Still has the original transmission at 1,106,000 miles...never been overhauled.

tats: G-3500 Express Van (1 ton) 5.7 liter / 350 gasoline engine
The original engine made it to 930,599 miles..
I change the engine oil and filter every 25,000 miles.
I change the transmission oil and filter every 150,000 miles.
I add no additives to the engine or transmission oil.
Did he mention that he changes his oil every 25000 miles? lol.

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  #22  
Old 08-30-2009, 03:45 PM
DHC8 DHC8 is offline
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Originally Posted by Saintor View Post
http://www.millionmilechevy.com/Once...il_Change.html



Did he mention that he changes his oil every 25000 miles? lol.

An Amsoil dealer who clearly does a lot of mileage in a short period of time is not the best data point.

I would think the long term results for his van would be different if he were doing short trips in someplace like North Dakota during a few few winters.

Subtle differences in the operating environment can have huge impacts on service life, both positive and negative. That would be something worthwhile to discuss, rather than these endless and pointless X miles between oil change debates.
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  #23  
Old 08-30-2009, 04:33 PM
MikeTerp MikeTerp is offline
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After my last dealer oil change (328i) my indicator said the next one was due in 23K! I never leave oil in for even 15K, so after a little more than 6K I changed it myself using a BMW filter and Mobil-1 0-40, BMW approved oil. I sent a sample of what I drained out (presume it was BMW oil) from the dealer fill off to Blackstone for analysis. I know I could have left it in longer, but I wanted to get a sense of how well the additives were holding up. Came back as OK and they said it looked good for at least another 2K or so. My indicator still says I have 13K to go (I will be off warranty by then) so I will change it myself again before getting to that point. I don't plan to use the dealer again for oil changes, just other service requirements.

I have always been very skeptical of 15+K oil changes, a feeling that has been reinforced by several people posting the results of their oil analysis. All my additives would have been long used up by 15K, let alone 23K. These long oil changes may work for leasers who plan to dump their cars after 35-50K, but anyone planning to keep it longer probably ought to think about changing their oil more often. Just MHO.
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  #24  
Old 08-30-2009, 05:01 PM
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21k is way too long, that MUST be the reason the HPFP are failing
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  #25  
Old 08-30-2009, 05:04 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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21k is way too long, that MUST be the reason the HPFP are failing
That and the fact that the car is fueled with gasoline....
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