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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
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  #51  
Old 09-15-2009, 03:34 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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No problems found.

As expected the initial reaction is:

'Drives just like the other new one on the lot'

- put it up, check it out, can't find anything wrong, no faults.

They will hold it again and try it out more. Asked about the 10 mpg which seems absurd to me. I suggested places to drive where it is flat and slow.

----

Has anyone else gotten 10 mpg in city driving or any driving with this car. Not towing anything, no passengers, cargo space empty, back seat empty. 10 mpg?
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  #52  
Old 09-15-2009, 03:34 PM
spokelizard spokelizard is offline
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Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
spoke, I am in the South Bay Area but most of the problems come on trips out of the immediate area, to Santa Cruz, Carmel, Big Sur (on 1) and again up in the North Bay over to Bolinas on Sir Francis Drake, and to Mendocino via Booneville et al. The bad stuff is usually where roadwork has just been suspended for a time and "transition plates" installed, potholes filled or the roadway has been altered in some way. The absolute worst is on a concrete freeway in the right hand lane that has been crushed by heavy trucks over the years. Thanks for the support and suggestions!
I haven't ridden on most of those roads with the X3, so I can't really compare. I have been on other rough roads, including metal plates and the right lanes of freeways and never experienced the terrible ride you've been having. Still not clear to me whether you just have a bad riding specimen, or you just don't like the X3 ride, but I'm guessing the latter since you've tried several others. But if your decision is still in play and there's any way I can help, just let me know.
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  #53  
Old 09-15-2009, 03:36 PM
spokelizard spokelizard is offline
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Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
Has anyone else gotten 10 mpg in city driving or any driving with this car. Not towing anything, no passengers, cargo space empty, back seat empty. 10 mpg?
I thought my city MPG was pretty bad, but that's about 16 MPG. 10 is just another indication that something's terribly wrong with your new X3. Be persistent with the dealer.
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  #54  
Old 09-15-2009, 03:49 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spokelizard View Post
I thought my city MPG was pretty bad, but that's about 16 MPG. 10 is just another indication that something's terribly wrong with your new X3. Be persistent with the dealer.
Commute traffic on highway - 19-20 mpg

Suburban driving, mostly surface streets - 14 mpg

City driving, slow, crowded some hills - 10 mpg

----- So.... between this kind of gas mileage and the deceleration while going downhill without any brakes and the inability to find forward motion when turning left up a hill, the answer is....

I am getting really confused but there seem to be an assortment of transmission glitches at the lowest of speeds from 0-35.

Any advice? Now I am starting to be afraid to drive my own car just in case something bad....lack of acceleration in traffic or with oncoming traffic...starts up. The left turn I made was with a traffic signal.
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  #55  
Old 09-15-2009, 04:15 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Faults?

When the SA says there are no faults, I suspect this is referring to computer diagnostic codes? Is that correct?

From what I gather no faulty AT registered a fault anyway so that is not an answer.
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  #56  
Old 09-15-2009, 08:40 PM
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madurodave madurodave is offline
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Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
That's what I was wondering this morning as well. I have never used the HDC and it wasn't on. Service tech didn't see or mention anything either during the ride on very steep hills. The SA commented on this when I mentioned the slow down at 25 mph going downhill.

I thought HDC was for very steep hills taken at a crawl, not a descent from 25 mph to 15 but more like 10 to 5...I will have to look it up.

If it is always on, I wonder what that does to the car.
I belive it kicks in at 20 or so mph. It takes the X3 to walking speed (about 5 mph) by applying brakes. Mine is a little abrupt when it does this.

So your SA said it could be that? Or he commented about the sudden slow down you/he experienced?
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  #57  
Old 09-15-2009, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
Commute traffic on highway - 19-20 mpg

Suburban driving, mostly surface streets - 14 mpg

City driving, slow, crowded some hills - 10 mpg

----- So.... between this kind of gas mileage and the deceleration while going downhill without any brakes and the inability to find forward motion when turning left up a hill, the answer is....

I am getting really confused but there seem to be an assortment of transmission glitches at the lowest of speeds from 0-35.

Any advice? Now I am starting to be afraid to drive my own car just in case something bad....lack of acceleration in traffic or with oncoming traffic...starts up. The left turn I made was with a traffic signal.
I am getting 24 mpg on the highway, pretty steady flow, around 80 mph. I have seen 25 mpg. City is around 20 - 22.
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  #58  
Old 09-15-2009, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madurodave View Post
I belive it kicks in at 20 or so mph. It takes the X3 to walking speed (about 5 mph) by applying brakes. Mine is a little abrupt when it does this.

So your SA said it could be that? Or he commented about the sudden slow down you/he experienced?
The SA mentioned the hill descent when I told him briefly about coming down the hill and experiencing the slow down. No one but me (apparently) has experienced this so far. Loaner 5 series doesn't do it. In D, going downhill without brakes it accelerates which is what would be expected.

My experiment:

1. Start near top of gently winding hill at 25 mph.
2. Keeping it in D take foot off brake and let it coast.
3. Car slows down to 15 mph all by itself. It would have continued to slow down...maybe to a stop...if I hadn't hit the accelerator again. It wasn't too abrupt, just a pretty powerful engine brake.

I never used the hill descent and I never applied the brakes so I'm not sure what the difference is between the hill descent and being in D.
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  #59  
Old 09-15-2009, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madurodave View Post
I am getting 24 mpg on the highway, pretty steady flow, around 80 mph. I have seen 25 mpg. City is around 20 - 22.
City around 20-22?

That's nice.

Maybe my car is just fat. Maybe the flab is causing it to bounce around and get really poor gas mileage. I was told by the dealership that it takes awhile to get better gas mileage...car is too new to get the best mileage.

I don't know if that makes any sense but I am thinking the obesity angle shows some real promise.
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  #60  
Old 09-15-2009, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
City around 20-22?

That's nice.

Maybe my car is just fat. Maybe the flab is causing it to bounce around and get really poor gas mileage. I was told by the dealership that it takes awhile to get better gas mileage...car is too new to get the best mileage.

I don't know if that makes any sense but I am thinking the obesity angle shows some real promise.
Who knows! I bought mine with 15k miles so it was broken in already. That way I got the CPO warranty to 100k miles.
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  #61  
Old 09-15-2009, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
The SA mentioned the hill descent when I told him briefly about coming down the hill and experiencing the slow down. No one but me (apparently) has experienced this so far. Loaner 5 series doesn't do it. In D, going downhill without brakes it accelerates which is what would be expected.

My experiment:

1. Start near top of gently winding hill at 25 mph.
2. Keeping it in D take foot off brake and let it coast.
3. Car slows down to 15 mph all by itself. It would have continued to slow down...maybe to a stop...if I hadn't hit the accelerator again. It wasn't too abrupt, just a pretty powerful engine brake.

I never used the hill descent and I never applied the brakes so I'm not sure what the difference is between the hill descent and being in D.
And they are saying that is normal? Did the loaner or other vehicle you drove behave the same way? I drove a 2009 loaner and it was excellent. No issues seen.
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  #62  
Old 09-16-2009, 12:27 AM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Originally Posted by madurodave View Post
And they are saying that is normal? Did the loaner or other vehicle you drove behave the same way? I drove a 2009 loaner and it was excellent. No issues seen.
I still have to get the final verdict.

The loaner vehicle is a 5 sedan (as was my own car before the X3) and neither did the engine brake going downhill like the X3 did. I agree, it would have made more sense for me to have gotten an X3 as a loaner instead.

Someone said that maybe the hill descent is actually on all the time. I have never used it so if it is on it is on in secret. I find it hard to believe hill descent would do much better than taking a car from 25 to 15 in short order without any brakes going downhill.

I have a list of things to try when I get my car back including driving in manual and SD and trying out hill descent. I wish I could find a reliable way to recreate what I experience for the dealer as they are putting some miles on it trying to figure out what the heck I am talking about. I appreciate that so maybe they'll have good news that they have experienced it themselves and have it all fixed up!

Otherwise I am going to want to boot kick it off a cliff which is too bad because it is fun to drive when it is behaving.
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  #63  
Old 09-16-2009, 04:46 AM
Tolland Mark Tolland Mark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
The SA mentioned the hill descent when I told him briefly about coming down the hill and experiencing the slow down. No one but me (apparently) has experienced this so far. Loaner 5 series doesn't do it. In D, going downhill without brakes it accelerates which is what would be expected.

My experiment:

1. Start near top of gently winding hill at 25 mph.
2. Keeping it in D take foot off brake and let it coast.
3. Car slows down to 15 mph all by itself. It would have continued to slow down...maybe to a stop...if I hadn't hit the accelerator again. It wasn't too abrupt, just a pretty powerful engine brake.

I never used the hill descent and I never applied the brakes so I'm not sure what the difference is between the hill descent and being in D.
The Hill Descent Control (HDC) is essentially a low speed cruise control which uses the brakes (with no accelerator pedal action) to keep a constant VERY LOW speed. I used this feature several times on my previous 325Xi when my steep driveway was very icy in the winter. It works quite well and is quite noticeable when it is engaged - a little like a very slow acting ABS. From what you described I am doubtful this is contributing to your deceleration.

I think that the deceleration you describe is indeed normal for this vehicle and not a problem in my opinion as I value throttle response and engine braking versus just braking. This is what driving a manual transmission is like.

When going down hill if you kept the gas pedal at the same position, you would likely gain speed as expected. If you put the car in Neutral and lifted off the gas, you would be actually coasting and the transmission would be disengaged so only friction would cause the car to eventually slow down. By lifting off the gas, you are telling the engine and car to slow down. For an automatic without being in neutral, the car will slow down - how fast depends on the gear you are in at the time and how aggressive the auto trans programming is. The lower the gear, the faster you slow down ie engine braking. Personally, I prefer this approach to driving vs the typical Japaneses throttle lag. Simply put, if I lift off the gas I mean to slow down not wait or have to slam on the brakes to compensate.

I recently had a 2009 530xI series loaner and agree that it is not as responsive as the X3 when decelerating. Definitely different personalities and the 5 for me was more like a Toyota... By far, I prefer the X3 dynamics. This may not be to your liking and it may even seem crude or problematic to you if you came from a 5 series and it's more cushy dynamics. Just my humble opinion.
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  #64  
Old 09-16-2009, 04:48 AM
al_macaroni al_macaroni is online now
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For what its worth, our former 2006 330i used to experience the strong engine brake as you describe. It occured on all gradients. I believe our 2008 X3 behaves the same way, but I have not really noticed. I had assumed that it was a characteristic of BMWs. That being said, no other automatic transmission car that I have owned has exibited this brake saving feature.
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  #65  
Old 09-16-2009, 06:35 AM
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HDC make noises, (like the DSC intervention noises) so you will notice it's activated. If they don't find anything, take it to another dealer.

Did they let you drive the one that they have there? You really need to drive another one...

Last edited by X3-terrestrial; 09-16-2009 at 07:45 AM.
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  #66  
Old 09-16-2009, 10:56 AM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolland Mark View Post
The Hill Descent Control (HDC) is essentially a low speed cruise control which uses the brakes (with no accelerator pedal action) to keep a constant VERY LOW speed. I used this feature several times on my previous 325Xi when my steep driveway was very icy in the winter. It works quite well and is quite noticeable when it is engaged - a little like a very slow acting ABS. From what you described I am doubtful this is contributing to your deceleration.

I think that the deceleration you describe is indeed normal for this vehicle and not a problem in my opinion as I value throttle response and engine braking versus just braking. This is what driving a manual transmission is like.

When going down hill if you kept the gas pedal at the same position, you would likely gain speed as expected. If you put the car in Neutral and lifted off the gas, you would be actually coasting and the transmission would be disengaged so only friction would cause the car to eventually slow down. By lifting off the gas, you are telling the engine and car to slow down. For an automatic without being in neutral, the car will slow down - how fast depends on the gear you are in at the time and how aggressive the auto trans programming is. The lower the gear, the faster you slow down ie engine braking. Personally, I prefer this approach to driving vs the typical Japaneses throttle lag. Simply put, if I lift off the gas I mean to slow down not wait or have to slam on the brakes to compensate.

I recently had a 2009 530xI series loaner and agree that it is not as responsive as the X3 when decelerating. Definitely different personalities and the 5 for me was more like a Toyota... By far, I prefer the X3 dynamics. This may not be to your liking and it may even seem crude or problematic to you if you came from a 5 series and it's more cushy dynamics. Just my humble opinion.
Thank you for the explanation.

Of all the unexpected things the X3 is doing, I thought this one might actually be a feature. I don't mind it so much as a driving feature as was wondering if it might help explain the other things going on which don't seem like features such as the 10 mpg or the jerky acceleration as it keeps trying to stay in the lower gear.

Although I don't mind it so much when driving, I really question whether using the transmission (if I understand this correctly) to brake the car all the time like this is a good idea for wear and tear. The brakes are consumables so why not rely on them more as other cars do? I'd rather replace brakes than have a transmission that fails earlier than it needs to.

After all, I can downshift myself (as I did in my 5) when going downhill if I don't want to ride the brakes so why does the X3 do it in D? It doesn't make any sense to me which is why I think it's a defect and not a feature.

I also noticed when going up hill it revs up way beyond 3 really easily and I have to back off the speed if I do not want to go near 4500 because the owner's manual says to avoid doing that < 1,000 miles on the odometer.

Last edited by PPXYZ; 09-16-2009 at 10:57 AM. Reason: editing for clarity
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  #67  
Old 09-16-2009, 11:01 AM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Originally Posted by al_macaroni View Post
For what its worth, our former 2006 330i used to experience the strong engine brake as you describe. It occured on all gradients. I believe our 2008 X3 behaves the same way, but I have not really noticed. I had assumed that it was a characteristic of BMWs. That being said, no other automatic transmission car that I have owned has exibited this brake saving feature.
Maybe it exists in the X5 but definitely not in the 5's. I had my original one and now I have the loaner and neither do this.

The first shop guy I spoke with said that one complaint about the X3 is that it wants to stay in the lower gears for too long when going up hill. I didn't understand why that would be a problem because it would provide more power to get up the hill. Then I experienced going up a hill, wanting to accelerate more and having to back down because of the rpms until it finally found a higher gear.

I think that was what he was talking about.
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  #68  
Old 09-16-2009, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by X3-terrestrial View Post
HDC make noises, (like the DSC intervention noises) so you will notice it's activated. If they don't find anything, take it to another dealer.

Did they let you drive the one that they have there? You really need to drive another one...
No noise, no lights so it's probably not the HDC. When I get my car back I will try out the HDC and then try it without the HDC on the same hill and see if there is any difference.
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  #69  
Old 09-16-2009, 11:47 AM
Tolland Mark Tolland Mark is offline
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Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
Thank you for the explanation.

Of all the unexpected things the X3 is doing, I thought this one might actually be a feature. I don't mind it so much as a driving feature as was wondering if it might help explain the other things going on which don't seem like features such as the 10 mpg or the jerky acceleration as it keeps trying to stay in the lower gear.

Although I don't mind it so much when driving, I really question whether using the transmission (if I understand this correctly) to brake the car all the time like this is a good idea for wear and tear. The brakes are consumables so why not rely on them more as other cars do? I'd rather replace brakes than have a transmission that fails earlier than it needs to.

After all, I can downshift myself (as I did in my 5) when going downhill if I don't want to ride the brakes so why does the X3 do it in D? It doesn't make any sense to me which is why I think it's a defect and not a feature.

I also noticed when going up hill it revs up way beyond 3 really easily and I have to back off the speed if I do not want to go near 4500 because the owner's manual says to avoid doing that < 1,000 miles on the odometer.
I am not privy to BMW design criteria, but unless your car redlines during the low speed descent you described, I doubt you are approaching anywhere near overstressing your drivetrain.

In my last car I used sport mode and shifting A LOT including downshifting on steep hills from 50mph and never had a concern about the drivetrain and I traded the car in at 145,000 miles. Although brakes are consumables, riding them on a BMW will cost you a heck of a lot of money particularly if rotor replacement is involved. Having a more responsive drivetrain makes the X3 much more sporty (ie less of an SUV) and for some of us, including me, much more enjoyable. Again, this is driver preference and you may find the sporty nature of this car less preferable. If you found this behavior annoying in other X3s then the X3's nature might not be to your liking. Don't forget that the transmission is adaptave and will modify its responsiveness to your driving style. Whether that will change your feelings or not only you can determine and of course I have not driven your vehicle so I am only going by your description.

I just got my X3 out of break in mode and I agree that with such a powerful engine, it was a bit of work to back off when accelerating up hill or quickly onto a highway in order to avoid the 4500 rpm limit at less than 1200 miles. Thankfully that's over and now I am really starting to enjoy the acceleration that this car can provide.
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  #70  
Old 09-16-2009, 01:07 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Originally Posted by Tolland Mark View Post
Having a more responsive drivetrain makes the X3 much more sporty (ie less of an SUV) and for some of us, including me, much more enjoyable. Again, this is driver preference and you may find the sporty nature of this car less preferable. If you found this behavior annoying in other X3s then the X3's nature might not be to your liking. Don't forget that the transmission is adaptave and will modify its responsiveness to your driving style. Whether that will change your feelings or not only you can determine and of course I have not driven your vehicle so I am only going by your description.
I find jerkiness annoying. If it is smooth but it comes on quickly - decelerating quickly for example when you take your foot off the accelerator - I don't have a problem with it and can see how advantageous that can be.

My car feels like it can't quite get into the right gear or the shifting is choppy...it is hard to describe and it is intermittent so it is very hard to show it to anyone. I wonder how the transmission adapts if you have more than one driver of the car as it seems from what I read that it takes some 300-500 miles after the s/w upgrade before it settles in.

I did find out that my car has (as would be expected) the latest s/w which seems to have taken care of most but not all of the problem cars.
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  #71  
Old 09-16-2009, 04:08 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Still can't find anything wrong

The dealership is putting some miles on the car with trying it out and finding nothing abnormal. I will try again to reproduce what I feel and give it another shot. This is honestly the worst riding car I have ever been in and it is very frustrating to be unable to show what the problem is.

This is very similar to what I feel in my car:

-----http://autos.yahoo.com/2007_bmw_x3-reviews_user/?page=2&sort=recent

Boneshaker with dangerous acceleration programming

by Wilson Dillon

from West Vancouver, B.C. Canada

on 08/03/2007

* Overall 2 stars
* Appearance 4 stars
* Comfort 4 stars
* Performance 2 stars
* Value 2 stars

No trim specified for this review

Pros
Warranty, Interior space comfortable
Cons
Ride is a BONESHAKER. Gas guzzler. Unnerving hesitatation followed by surge on acceleration/Dangerou

Merging into freeway traffic is unnerving and in fact DANGEROUS because of initial hesitatation followed by zooming acceleration. This really needs attention because of the potential fo causing accidents.

Very rough ride. Need different type of shock absorbers. In the city the ride is so boneshaking, my wife refuses to ride with me in this automobile.

Very disappointed as I bought "The BMW Ride". If these defects not corrected then I will sell and try another make. My friend who also has anX3 feels the same way.

Last edited by PPXYZ; 09-16-2009 at 05:05 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #72  
Old 09-16-2009, 04:48 PM
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Another person feeling what I feel

http://edu.cqdx.gov*****bmw/CarModel/...for-me_58.html

"Home-Bouncity bouncy X3 just wasn't for me
Bouncity bouncy X3 just wasn't for me
I was planning to buy a slightly used X3 this weekend and since I just don't do automatics, that left me with one possible car at Ralph Schomp BMW in Littleton Colorado.

It was an 06 Highland Green X3 (Vin WA32247) with 23K miles on it and was equipped just as I needed. However, on the test drive the car bounced around and yawed back and forth over rough pavement. By bounced I mean that the rear end of the vehicle didn't just rebound after going over a bump, but continued to bounce one or two more times before settling down.

Tire pressure was good and just to be sure I wasn't imagining something (not a chance), I test drove another X3 of the same year with similar mileage. That X3 drove like every other X3 I've ever driven. Of course the sales guy acted like nothing was wrong with the 6spd manual X3 I'd planned on buying.

I doubt if they would CPO a BMW after being involved in a bad accident.

Any thoughts on this? Anyone seen an X3 with bad shocks at that mileage? Does the handling issue I describe sound like bad shocks or something else?
I'd say some blown shocks. I have an 05 that just did Toronto to Montreal and the ride on the highway was very smooth. Girlfriend thought the same thing.
The continuing-to-bounce scenario isn't normal, but X3's seem much more stiffly sprung than other model BMWs. I'm not a big fan of X3 ride quality. And let me just say the auto trans in the 08's blows.
The continuing-to-bounce scenario isn't normal, but X3's seem much more stiffly sprung than other model BMWs. I'm not a big fan of X3 ride quality. And let me just say the auto trans in the 08's blows.

Probably means blown shocks. Someone probably drove the crap out of it and took it in for a new car the next year."
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  #73  
Old 09-16-2009, 05:08 PM
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Mein Auto: BMW X3 2009 AT
Someone else gets the same effect as well. I didn't see these, obviously, a month ago.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/bmw/x3
Comfort

There's plenty of space but rear legroom is lacking. And then there's the biggest issue with the X3 - the ride. Bounce, bounce, bang. Young people, and Zebedee off the Magic Roundabout, may be able to cope, but older patrons will hate every hip-loosening moment.


http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=104066
"Unfortunately, an afternoon spent on a bumpy desert road proved to be too much. The tires held up fine, but the rear suspension couldn't handle the stress. We can only assume that our test vehicle's street-focused sport package had something to do with it. In any case, both rear shocks were rendered useless and several suspension parts needed replacement. Luckily, the repair was covered under warranty. From that day on, we kept the cute ute on the pavement."


http://www.channel4.com/4car/rt/bmw/x3/631/9
"This is where it all comes apart. Even in standard form the X3's suspension is too firm, causing an abrupt bouncing and checking from the rear over anything less than perfect roads. The Sport version is even worse, fidgeting constantly and proving close to intolerable when terrain gets rough. BMW claims the X3 is stiff to make it feel flat and stable, something not always felt in a tallish 4x4, but the compromise is too skewed. Otherwise all is well, with good seats, low noise levels and an efficient air-con system. "


================

My understanding is that the ride was improved and was no longer an issue after 2007. Could my car be regressing or maybe the luck of the draw has it at the edge of the specs and the combination of the car and the roads has it driving more like the original 2004.

Last edited by PPXYZ; 09-16-2009 at 05:48 PM.
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  #74  
Old 09-16-2009, 06:09 PM
Supercourse Supercourse is offline
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Location: British Columbia, Canada
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,151
Mein Auto: 2004 X3 2.5i
Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
I do not know what year this is, maybe it's the first year. Maybe my car has regressed to 2004 ride or the ride is inconsistent and, like the AT, is fine on most cars but is horrible on others?
Yes, that is the famous "Top Gear" review in late 2003.

As with most pre-release vehicles that the media are given keys to, it was more than likely a Sport version.
And as it was in the U.K., probably a manual transmission.

So, not directly comparable to yours, but,
it's looking more and more like you are experiencing early onset AT problems in combination with suspension or ride issues that have yet to be identified,
possibly exacerbated by particular road surface conditions in your area.

As already mentioned, direct comparison by driving another X3 on the same roads at the same speeds might be the only way that you will be able to satisfy yourself that the dealer should be able to recognize the issue and correct it.

Long-term X3 owners may not be exactly objective, but I think we impart factual knowledge without the flowery language that is the stock in trade of auto. journalists.

Just want to see a rational explanation and happy outcome of your travails.
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  #75  
Old 09-16-2009, 06:49 PM
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madurodave madurodave is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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Mein Auto: 2007 Z4+X3, 2006 530Xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_macaroni View Post
For what its worth, our former 2006 330i used to experience the strong engine brake as you describe. It occured on all gradients. I believe our 2008 X3 behaves the same way, but I have not really noticed. I had assumed that it was a characteristic of BMWs. That being said, no other automatic transmission car that I have owned has exibited this brake saving feature.
I checked mine last night. It speeds up going down the hill in Auto. Very little engine braking going on.
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