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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Talk about the E83 BMW X3 in this forum!

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  #76  
Old 09-16-2009, 06:56 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madurodave View Post
I checked mine last night. It speeds up going down the hill in Auto. Very little engine braking going on.
Thanks for letting me know that. If it's a feature then I have it and you do not!

I'm not sure who is on the good side of that.

Yours: Understands that when you go downhill in D you accept the fact of gravity and will either downshift and/or brake if you wish to slow down.

Mine: Is quite sure that I should crawl down any hill unless I override it by accelerating downhill to maintain speed.
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  #77  
Old 09-16-2009, 07:00 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Originally Posted by Supercourse View Post
Yes, that is the famous "Top Gear" review in late 2003.

As with most pre-release vehicles that the media are given keys to, it was more than likely a Sport version.
And as it was in the U.K., probably a manual transmission.

So, not directly comparable to yours, but,
it's looking more and more like you are experiencing early onset AT problems in combination with suspension or ride issues that have yet to be identified,
possibly exacerbated by particular road surface conditions in your area.

As already mentioned, direct comparison by driving another X3 on the same roads at the same speeds might be the only way that you will be able to satisfy yourself that the dealer should be able to recognize the issue and correct it.

Long-term X3 owners may not be exactly objective, but I think we impart factual knowledge without the flowery language that is the stock in trade of auto. journalists.

Just want to see a rational explanation and happy outcome of your travails.
Thank you.

I pick up the car tomorrow and will make another attempt to show what the problem is.
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  #78  
Old 09-17-2009, 02:59 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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X3: what the heck?

Here is the analysis after many test drives, looking at the suspension, etc.

1. My X3 drives like the other X3 in the lot. I no longer doubt that.

2. The ride is rocky, bouncy, uncomfortable, insufferable and it is DESIGNED THAT WAY.

3. If you want to sell back your brand new 2009 X3 to the dealership, it will cost you 20% of its value...it has less than 500 miles on it.

4. My last BMW ever. The company is ridiculous to produce a car that drives like you kow what. I am appalled, furious, angry, incensed. I will tell everyone I know and everyone I meet about this car.

---

Also met a guy with a $62K X5. Talk about incensed. Starting from brand new, it has been in the shop an average of once a month....for two years.

BMW...I am done with your garbage.

Sorry to those who love their cars but this X3 is so bad, it should be drop kicked off a effing cliff. If you know a private buyer who is interested in my very base model, let me know.

I am just furious and angry enough to let it go for a few thousand less than what I paid so it is a better deal than any dealer can make.

BMW should be ashamed for producing this car.
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  #79  
Old 09-17-2009, 03:09 PM
cubed cubed is offline
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..*****...

for balance -- I will just write that I am sorry you have had this experience, but this car continues to be the best driving, best riding combinations of attributes that I need/want in a vehicle. So if, in fact, your car drives like mine it is astounding how you can call it uncomfortable and insufferable. On the other hand, I still suspect that yours has something wrong with it...

BMW should get you into a car that you like. Lord knows they make some nice cars that might suit your needs. Good Luck...
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  #80  
Old 09-17-2009, 03:21 PM
bluskye bluskye is offline
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This thread is useless. Another buyer who failed at due diligence on the test drive. Its almost as silly as buying a coupe and coming home expecting 4 doors on the car. Ze germans never pointed a gun at your head and forced you to purchase the car. Dam, did you even test drive the car or even compare it to a lexus which may suit you better. Your desire to hold a cup of coffee over rough roads is an immediate sign you dont belong in an X3, but you wouldn't know since you didnt read the free comparisons littered on the internet for this class of vehicle.

Here's a hint, after you take the loss on the X3, head over to Lexus, and find something called a RX and call it a day.

Last edited by bluskye; 09-17-2009 at 03:25 PM.
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  #81  
Old 09-17-2009, 03:38 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubed View Post
..*****...

for balance -- I will just write that I am sorry you have had this experience, but this car continues to be the best driving, best riding combinations of attributes that I need/want in a vehicle. So if, in fact, your car drives like mine it is astounding how you can call it uncomfortable and insufferable. On the other hand, I still suspect that yours has something wrong with it...

BMW should get you into a car that you like. Lord knows they make some nice cars that might suit your needs. Good Luck...
Thank you.

I see that many of you love your cars. I loved the ride on my 5!

I am stuck for the moment with this car but I will comment on the unfolding consumer saga until it finds its way into the hands of someone who is more numb to the ride, thinks the ride is a fun feature of the car or it falls off the proverbial cliff. I am, however, totally done with BMW. I cannot trust them to produce a car that will ride as it should...smoothly. It may be great on a test drive but it shows its true colors in real driving.

I could pay some and get into something else from BMW but I am done.

It's really too bad as the car has other features which I am very happy with but it is impossible to ignore the jostling and bumping coming in and out of my neighborhood everyday.
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  #82  
Old 09-17-2009, 03:47 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluskye View Post
This thread is useless. Another buyer who failed at due diligence on the test drive. Its almost as silly as buying a coupe and coming home expecting 4 doors on the car. Ze germans never pointed a gun at your head and forced you to purchase the car. Dam, did you even test drive the car or even compare it to a lexus which may suit you better. Your desire to hold a cup of coffee over rough roads is an immediate sign you dont belong in an X3, but you wouldn't know since you didnt read the free comparisons littered on the internet for this class of vehicle.

Here's a hint, after you take the loss on the X3, head over to Lexus, and find something called a RX and call it a day.
That's right.

They didn't force me to buy this car. I bought the car.

They also cannot prevent me from making my honest comments on my car every single day and twice on Sundays until I no longer own said car. They have their rights and I have mine.

1. I read all the reviews for the car. I did not see this site until I looked SPECIFICALLY for the problems that I was having in my new car.

I understood the 2004 teeth-chattering, you must be clinically insane to own an X3 reviews. I understood the softening of the suspension in 2005 and in 2007. 2009 should have been a no brainer for suspension.

2. I researched cars in depth for 6 weeks after having considered different makes for a few years before that.
3. I test drove cars multiple times including the Lexus.
4. I have driven BMWs for 20 years..that, 'you don't know BMWs' doesn't work with me.
5. I test drove the X3....no such rocking and rolling and nauseating pitching. Nothing went airborne....luck of the draw....bad luck. X3 handled like my 5 and had better brakes. Obviously taller and not as cushy inside but otherwise the closest thing to my 5's driving as I could find in a mid sized utility car.


Do you honestly think that if I had felt this pitching during the test drive that I would have purchased this car? I DID NOT FEEL IT. It isn't as if I felt it and now I don't like it. I DID NOT FEEL IT.

That's like telling the people with AT problems that they should have felt the beginnings of a problem during their test drive. That doesn't make any sense.

Last edited by PPXYZ; 09-17-2009 at 04:00 PM.
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  #83  
Old 09-17-2009, 06:27 PM
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madurodave madurodave is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
That's right.

They didn't force me to buy this car. I bought the car.

They also cannot prevent me from making my honest comments on my car every single day and twice on Sundays until I no longer own said car. They have their rights and I have mine.

1. I read all the reviews for the car. I did not see this site until I looked SPECIFICALLY for the problems that I was having in my new car.

I understood the 2004 teeth-chattering, you must be clinically insane to own an X3 reviews. I understood the softening of the suspension in 2005 and in 2007. 2009 should have been a no brainer for suspension.

2. I researched cars in depth for 6 weeks after having considered different makes for a few years before that.
3. I test drove cars multiple times including the Lexus.
4. I have driven BMWs for 20 years..that, 'you don't know BMWs' doesn't work with me.
5. I test drove the X3....no such rocking and rolling and nauseating pitching. Nothing went airborne....luck of the draw....bad luck. X3 handled like my 5 and had better brakes. Obviously taller and not as cushy inside but otherwise the closest thing to my 5's driving as I could find in a mid sized utility car.


Do you honestly think that if I had felt this pitching during the test drive that I would have purchased this car? I DID NOT FEEL IT. It isn't as if I felt it and now I don't like it. I DID NOT FEEL IT.

That's like telling the people with AT problems that they should have felt the beginnings of a problem during their test drive. That doesn't make any sense.

I thought you wrote above that all of the other X3's have the same ride? Then you should have felp the same things on your test ride. I don't quite get your answers.

I am sorry you don't like the X3. I would sell/trade it rather than suffer driving it. I do think you will enjoy a Lexus ride better. It is much softer.
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  #84  
Old 09-17-2009, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madurodave View Post
I thought you wrote above that all of the other X3's have the same ride? Then you should have felp the same things on your test ride. I don't quite get your answers.

I am sorry you don't like the X3. I would sell/trade it rather than suffer driving it. I do think you will enjoy a Lexus ride better. It is much softer.
I probably wasn't being very clear.

I never got around to driving another X3. The dealership people drove them (one used to own one) and said they rode the same and I have no reason not to believe them. I've spent so much time on this issue that I ran out of time to do another test drive.

I drove with them several times and they felt what I felt and said it was normal for an X3. My reaction is still, are you kidding?

At any rate, different strokes I guess. Maybe I can find a buyer as the dealer deal is ridiculous because the situation is, of course, ridiculous.
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  #85  
Old 09-17-2009, 09:58 PM
spokelizard spokelizard is offline
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I still think you somehow ended up with a worst of breed, not a typical X3. But in any event, you're doing the right thing, taking your losses now rather than enduring the vehicle for a few years.

I hadn't realized it before, but for me it was a real plus to buy a used (excuse me: preowned) car. I got to drive the actual car I was purchasing about 100 miles on all types of roads and terrain before signing off on a purchase. So I knew what I was getting into. And what was that? well I knew it was a stiff ride, but not unbearably so. And I'm not an automotive engineer, but I assumed that the ride was the tradeoff for having a tall high clearance vehicle that handled so well. To me the handling outweighed the ride being rougher than a sedan. Clearly YMMV.

You're right about one thing though. As a matter of driving practice and safety I always have both hands on the wheel, but this is the first car where it's a matter of necessity. No hot beverages for me in this car.
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  #86  
Old 09-17-2009, 10:19 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spokelizard View Post
I still think you somehow ended up with a worst of breed, not a typical X3. But in any event, you're doing the right thing, taking your losses now rather than enduring the vehicle for a few years.

I hadn't realized it before, but for me it was a real plus to buy a used (excuse me: preowned) car. I got to drive the actual car I was purchasing about 100 miles on all types of roads and terrain before signing off on a purchase. So I knew what I was getting into. And what was that? well I knew it was a stiff ride, but not unbearably so. And I'm not an automotive engineer, but I assumed that the ride was the tradeoff for having a tall high clearance vehicle that handled so well. To me the handling outweighed the ride being rougher than a sedan. Clearly YMMV.

You're right about one thing though. As a matter of driving practice and safety I always have both hands on the wheel, but this is the first car where it's a matter of necessity. No hot beverages for me in this car.
I am tired and bummed so I haven't made a decision yet. I will sit on it (or in it) for awhile and see what I can do. I am totally bushed by the entire experience so I am not going to make any decisions for awhile.

It is the height of stupidity to take the worst of the depreciation after a single month with this car. I do not know if things will get better, more broken in although I understand that the suspension is here to stay. The rocky ride isn't going anywhere.

Does anyone know what changes were made between the 2004 and 2005 and then the 2007 on the ride? Was it, say, a 1% improvement in ride quality, 10% or more significant?

Has anyone ever driven the oldest cars and then newer cars and felt any difference?
Maybe there isn't actually any difference or such a small difference as to not really be noticeable?

I don't really understand the trade-off between the bouncy ride and handling. I would think that bouncy is the opposite of road-hugging handling.

Has anyone done anything to modify the seats (say, changing seating position or adding any after market products) to make the ride better?
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  #87  
Old 09-17-2009, 10:36 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Shocks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
That's like telling the people with AT problems that they should have felt the beginnings of a problem during their test drive. That doesn't make any sense.
Actually many did say almost exactly that. Dealer, BMWNA, and dozens of people on this website. That has changed. Since, it seems about 1 in 10 people have an AT problem.

If this car was as bouncy as you describe I certainly wouldn't have gotten another one. Two broken backs and 65 different bone breaks and I would never survive your car (yes I was a daredevil as a kid).

AznM probably has driven every year of X3 made so I would ask him about the differences.

Maybe you can have the shocks replaced with something that will give a softer ride? That certainly would be cheaper then selling it right back.
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  #88  
Old 09-17-2009, 10:38 PM
dharmadoggie dharmadoggie is offline
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I made a car choice once too that was all wrong, and had to suffer the financial consequences, but I have no regrets now. I dumped it after 9 annoying months. (A W8 Passat.)

The X3, when I first bought it, I said to myself: OMG what have I done it rides like a buckboard. But I got used to it. It's fine now, only a problem on roads that are under construction or that need to be. Compares to a stiffly sprung sports car. The alternative is like the Volvo cross country I had - nice ride, treacherous handling doing quick lane changes (is this a Corvair?); or the Outback - weirdly unbalanced roll centers or stiffnesses, lots of understeer.

I have wondered why BMW didn't opt for dynamicaly engaged stabilizer bars, something you can get on a Jeep Grand Cherokee; or some other electronically controlled suspension.
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  #89  
Old 09-17-2009, 11:10 PM
spokelizard spokelizard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
I probably wasn't being very clear.

I never got around to driving another X3.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PPXYZ View Post
I am tired and bummed so I haven't made a decision yet. I will sit on it (or in it) for awhile and see what I can do. I am totally bushed by the entire experience so I am not going to make any decisions for awhile.

If you're still considering keeping your X3, seems like the next step is go back to the dealer and take an extended ride on the same roads with another 2009 X3. They should be willing to accomodate you on that. At least that will decide whether you have a normal X3 or a lemon.

Also, you might want to consider this from another thread. Having bought a used car, I haven't experienced the break in period, so I'm not sure how relevant it is to your situation, or how patient you would be.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...8&postcount=23

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ishniknork View Post
That 8,000 mile marker was when I noticed improved gas mileage. Took me a year as I don't drive long distances much either. That seems to be the point where everything starts to free up. Most of the vehicle is broken in long before that but I can't remember what the actual mileage BMW recommends for the break-in period.

The things "breaking in" were pretty much listed in my previous post. Everything from the engine through the whole drive train (transmission, transfer case, front and rear differentials, CV joints on the drive shafts and axles) and all the way to the wheel bearings. Even the shocks and suspension bushings will be a little stiff until they wear in.
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  #90  
Old 09-17-2009, 11:27 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Actually many did say almost exactly that. Dealer, BMWNA, and dozens of people on this website. That has changed. Since, it seems about 1 in 10 people have an AT problem.

If this car was as bouncy as you describe I certainly wouldn't have gotten another one. Two broken backs and 65 different bone breaks and I would never survive your car (yes I was a daredevil as a kid).

AznM probably has driven every year of X3 made so I would ask him about the differences.

Maybe you can have the shocks replaced with something that will give a softer ride? That certainly would be cheaper then selling it right back.
Ouch. I've broken a single bone and that was painful enough.

I asked about the shocks but they said the computer will simply spit out a list of parts depending on your VIN number and, surprise, they will be what you already have.

A 10% failure like the AT should be catastrophic failure and should have triggered a more aggressive response than just waiting for people to get into dangerous situations and then make them go through the aggravation of trying to get the s/w upgrades. That was bad form IMO.

That doesn't say much about a premium car company.

I won't sell it back to the dealer for 20% less than I bought it for a month ago. That would put aggravation on top of aggravation. They are trying to equalize a 'used' X3 (500 entire miles) with a 'new' X3 which could have 600 miles on it because it was used by the staff. It's just the transfer of title and nothing more really but it affects what financing is available and it is an absurd idea.

It is much better to sell it to someone else who is in the market for an X3. Anyone know anyone?
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  #91  
Old 09-17-2009, 11:38 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Originally Posted by dharmadoggie View Post
I made a car choice once too that was all wrong, and had to suffer the financial consequences, but I have no regrets now. I dumped it after 9 annoying months. (A W8 Passat.)

The X3, when I first bought it, I said to myself: OMG what have I done it rides like a buckboard. But I got used to it. It's fine now, only a problem on roads that are under construction or that need to be. Compares to a stiffly sprung sports car. The alternative is like the Volvo cross country I had - nice ride, treacherous handling doing quick lane changes (is this a Corvair?); or the Outback - weirdly unbalanced roll centers or stiffnesses, lots of understeer.

I have wondered why BMW didn't opt for dynamicaly engaged stabilizer bars, something you can get on a Jeep Grand Cherokee; or some other electronically controlled suspension.
Hey, so you had the same reaction that I am currently having along with a huge helping of buyer's remorse, much head smacking and some heavy drinking (just joking). How long before you eased into the ride or became immune to its ride?

Did you make any adjustments to tires, seat positions, after market cushioning, etc.?

I looked at the Volvos but they were boat like in their steering and rather wide and flat. Nice seats though and interesting floating console.

What kind of a bath did you take on the Passat or do you remember? I'm not sure what else I would drive...I might resort to biking... After all, I just got through the entire process and settled on this!
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  #92  
Old 09-18-2009, 05:48 AM
cubed cubed is offline
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I think that given your level of outrage you shouldnt take the dealer`s word for it on the ride of your 3 compared with others on their lot.

1. I wonder whether the car you initially test drove is still around so you can drive it.

2. If not, try to get the oldest one on their lot -- 2007 or newer -- and see how it drives. Note the mileage and compare it to yours.

Its your seat of the pants impressions which are causing you all this angst, you ought not trust other peoples` impressions until you have driven another X3 yourself.

And then just make a decision, suck it up, and move on. We all make decisions in life -- some good, some bad. Buying the "wrong car" is not nearly at the top of the list of bad decisions you will ever make. Deal.
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  #93  
Old 09-18-2009, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cubed View Post
I think that given your level of outrage you shouldnt take the dealer`s word for it on the ride of your 3 compared with others on their lot.

1. I wonder whether the car you initially test drove is still around so you can drive it.

2. If not, try to get the oldest one on their lot -- 2007 or newer -- and see how it drives. Note the mileage and compare it to yours.

Its your seat of the pants impressions which are causing you all this angst, you ought not trust other peoples` impressions until you have driven another X3 yourself.
This makes sense.
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  #94  
Old 09-18-2009, 07:00 AM
UncleJ UncleJ is online now
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PPX, having been where you are (absent the transmission problems however) I "feel your pain". It may be you can work the dealer/BMWNA for a buy back or trade assist into another car, perhaps a base 5 series. I doubt they will do anything based on the ride alone (after all that was "fixed") but the A/T problem, coupled with the ride, might do the trick. As you correctly surmise you own the car's depreciation for at least a year, not including the wonderful DMV fees and even worse, the 8% sales tax you will never see again. The term "bath" is not misused here. Our fellow poster, Evl waged a heroic fight about the transmisson problem that in great part resulted in the sticky we have now at the head of our forum, so it can be done. Evl was successful in getting a M/T X3 which he seems to like. As for myself, as soon as I was satisfied that it was not my particular car, but all of them, that rode the same way I came to grips with it and weighing the cost of taking a bath financially and keeping what otherwise was a very nice car, I moved on (still hating the ride over rough roads). I agree with cubed in a way, I should have taken a longer test drive and made it more of a "real world" driving experience warts and all instead the sweeping turns and smooth roads I enjoyed at the time. Also, perhaps I am not suited to drive a BMW any more, their performance is beyond my competence and I should be driving a '53 Buick Skylark (I would trade my X3 straight across for one of those in a heartbeat!) or similar soft rider. I agree totally and my next ride will be more Lexus/Buick-like than BMW/Alfa-like. That of course does not help with your situation. The well documented transmission problem is the key to getting anything done by BMW IMHO. Good luck!

Last edited by UncleJ; 09-18-2009 at 07:09 AM.
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  #95  
Old 09-18-2009, 08:56 AM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Originally Posted by UncleJ View Post
PPX, having been where you are (absent the transmission problems however) I "feel your pain". It may be you can work the dealer/BMWNA for a buy back or trade assist into another car, perhaps a base 5 series. I doubt they will do anything based on the ride alone (after all that was "fixed") but the A/T problem, coupled with the ride, might do the trick. As you correctly surmise you own the car's depreciation for at least a year, not including the wonderful DMV fees and even worse, the 8% sales tax you will never see again. The term "bath" is not misused here. Our fellow poster, Evl waged a heroic fight about the transmisson problem that in great part resulted in the sticky we have now at the head of our forum, so it can be done. Evl was successful in getting a M/T X3 which he seems to like. As for myself, as soon as I was satisfied that it was not my particular car, but all of them, that rode the same way I came to grips with it and weighing the cost of taking a bath financially and keeping what otherwise was a very nice car, I moved on (still hating the ride over rough roads). I agree with cubed in a way, I should have taken a longer test drive and made it more of a "real world" driving experience warts and all instead the sweeping turns and smooth roads I enjoyed at the time. Also, perhaps I am not suited to drive a BMW any more, their performance is beyond my competence and I should be driving a '53 Buick Skylark (I would trade my X3 straight across for one of those in a heartbeat!) or similar soft rider. I agree totally and my next ride will be more Lexus/Buick-like than BMW/Alfa-like. That of course does not help with your situation. The well documented transmission problem is the key to getting anything done by BMW IMHO. Good luck!
I am done with BMW.

I will never buy another one.

20 years of BMW and this car has me done with the company. Period. I will join the growing ranks of people I know who are done with the cost, the glitches, the constant dealership visits, the weird electrical outages, the occasional blown head gaskets, etc.

The one, the ONE, reason I would put up with the lower reliability of any BMW versus say a Honda or Toyota is for the exceptional driving experience. In this X3, BMW fails to deliver EVEN THAT. If BMWs can't drive like BMWs then they shouldn't be sold as BMWs. If BMWs SAVs are going to drive like chuck wagons then don't sell them to the unsuspecting.

I now think they simply saw a hole in the market, dropped in this OEM car and wiped their hands of it. All they seemed to have done is fixed the s/w glitch in the AT which took them a long to even acknowledge. It seems, from where I sit, that they do not care about this car or its customers. They are simply hoping that customers give up and not tell anyone else about their problems.

When I have time (this has taken all my time lately) I can venture back and get another test drive of a car that I already own. What does it really matter? If the car actually drives like this then it is unacceptable. There is apparently nothing wrong with the car from the dealership's perspective and I appreciate the fact that they put over 100 miles on it and lifted it up twice to check the components. I am NOT saying that the dealership didn't do its job or that it is covering up anything.

This is the way this *.*.*. drives. OMG.

I am, again, sorry to the enthusiasts who have no idea what I am talking about and who are enjoying their X3s everyday. I expected to be where you are.

I am, however, going to do some blogging to make sure others do not get into the situation I have gotten into. The biggest problem about this entire mess is that I did not know about this to begin with. If I had, I wouldn't have even test driven the BMW and would now be in something else.

These threads are very helpful but only if you search for problems you don't know exist.

Caveat BMW.
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  #96  
Old 09-18-2009, 09:02 AM
szee1 szee1 is offline
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I have been following this thread with interest and feel badly that your experience has not been positive. My wife and I both have 2004's and are delighted with them. The ride is firm, no question of that, but this becomes a trade off. The X3 sport in 2004 has a skid pad rating of 8.8 which cannot be achieved by a soft ride. The Lexus has a mid 7 rating and obviously is focused more on ride than handling. To take a 4000 pound tall center of gravity vehicle and make it handle well, the choices are firm springs/shocks with large stabilizer bars. Either that or through electronics which can be an expensive alternative. I have had many vehicles and find the X3 rides no different than my ex Porsche, 1968 mini cooper, current 99 Miata with sports suspension, and several other vehicles with a focus on handling. The Caddi STS I had could handle fairly well and achieved this through electronic shocks etc but never truly felt composed and when these shocks failed, you could anticipate a 700 dollar a corner bill just for parts. In my mind, the trade off for a cushy ride for the handling is well worth it. That said, I did quite a bit of research prior to the purchases and knew what to expect. As for the transmission issues, pretty much inexcusable and shame on BMW for that and I am thankful this wasn't an issue in 2004.
Hope this turns out well for you.
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  #97  
Old 09-18-2009, 09:04 AM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cubed View Post
I think that given your level of outrage you shouldnt take the dealer`s word for it on the ride of your 3 compared with others on their lot.

1. I wonder whether the car you initially test drove is still around so you can drive it.

2. If not, try to get the oldest one on their lot -- 2007 or newer -- and see how it drives. Note the mileage and compare it to yours.

Its your seat of the pants impressions which are causing you all this angst, you ought not trust other peoples` impressions until you have driven another X3 yourself.

And then just make a decision, suck it up, and move on. We all make decisions in life -- some good, some bad. Buying the "wrong car" is not nearly at the top of the list of bad decisions you will ever make. Deal.
I appreciate your opinion.

My decision is to make sure that others are apprised of this situation before they get into the pickle I am in.

That relieves some of the angst. As to taking a 20% hit on the car so that BMW gets to sell more of these to the unsuspecting?
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  #98  
Old 09-18-2009, 09:21 AM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szee1 View Post
I have been following this thread with interest and feel badly that your experience has not been positive. My wife and I both have 2004's and are delighted with them. The ride is firm, no question of that, but this becomes a trade off. The X3 sport in 2004 has a skid pad rating of 8.8 which cannot be achieved by a soft ride. The Lexus has a mid 7 rating and obviously is focused more on ride than handling. To take a 4000 pound tall center of gravity vehicle and make it handle well, the choices are firm springs/shocks with large stabilizer bars. Either that or through electronics which can be an expensive alternative. I have had many vehicles and find the X3 rides no different than my ex Porsche, 1968 mini cooper, current 99 Miata with sports suspension, and several other vehicles with a focus on handling. The Caddi STS I had could handle fairly well and achieved this through electronic shocks etc but never truly felt composed and when these shocks failed, you could anticipate a 700 dollar a corner bill just for parts. In my mind, the trade off for a cushy ride for the handling is well worth it. That said, I did quite a bit of research prior to the purchases and knew what to expect. As for the transmission issues, pretty much inexcusable and shame on BMW for that and I am thankful this wasn't an issue in 2004.
Hope this turns out well for you.
Thank you for your comments.

Right, I have no problem with a firm suspension. I have no problem with feeling the potholes and the bumps and the car taking them, stabilizing and moving on. I have no problem feeling the road underneath the tires on the highway. I do not want to drive a boat which is the ENTIRE REASON for going to BMW.

What this car does is take the big things without much fuss.

What this car does is see a road that appears to have nothing amiss, hits some minor pocket or molehill and moves side to side through the midsection. What you might expect if a tiny earthquake swayed you from side to side in your seat. What it does is see another road that appears to have nothing wrong with it and begin bucking from the front as if something bumped up against the bottom of the bumper and set it bouncing.

On occasion, from nearly a standing start this car sees something in the street it doesn't like and begins rolling and moving along one axis or another as if the street itself became unstable and in undulating beneath it.

I am beginning to think that if I drove this car with more of a lead foot and spent more time over the speed limit I would not feel nearly as much as I do now. I think it might accelerate quickly enough over these undulation-causing imperfections that it would not have the time to undulate.

If you are driving this car like a sports car then you are probably not feeling what I do.

I have been trying to keep it under the 4500 rpms since it is sub 1K miles and I live in a place with lots of little hills and low speed limits. I do not get undulations on the highway or under fast acceleration. I can't do jack rabbit starts though for fear of hitting things just to please my car. Besides, I would like to improve my 10 (actually 9.9 yesterday) mpg city driving.

What kind of city driving mileage do you get?
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  #99  
Old 09-18-2009, 09:53 AM
szee1 szee1 is offline
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As for mileage, I get 18.8 with a combined city and highway. Most of the combined is city, say around 90% (the avg speed on the computer shows 32 mph). On highway only with a 75mph avg I have usually seen 23-24 mpg. My wife's is the 2.5 and she averages 20 with almost all of it city. I can't speak to the improvement after break-in as these were both purchased used. My driving style would be described as moderately aggressive. No jack rabbit starts but I enjoy getting my foot into it when merging onto the freeway. 10 mpg is unacceptable and while I can accept that a motor and drive-train will become more efficient as it's broken in, it's unlikely to believe that this would improve by 90%.

The road conditions in our fair cities (Henderson and Las Vegas) are over all pretty good but a significant number of intersections have channels or dips cut through them to direct the water flow when it rains (really amazing to see the amount of water rushing down the road when we get a good rain storm) and the X3 does a great job riding over these.

It sounds like yours has some issues and the best approach would be to do as others suggested and take another X3 out and compare them. Ours definitely do not exhibit the characteristics you describe in terms of ride and while it's optimistic, perhaps the dealership will do the right thing. Can't believe I said that but one can hope.
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  #100  
Old 09-18-2009, 10:14 AM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szee1 View Post
As for mileage, I get 18.8 with a combined city and highway. Most of the combined is city, say around 90% (the avg speed on the computer shows 32 mph). On highway only with a 75mph avg I have usually seen 23-24 mpg. My wife's is the 2.5 and she averages 20 with almost all of it city. I can't speak to the improvement after break-in as these were both purchased used. My driving style would be described as moderately aggressive. No jack rabbit starts but I enjoy getting my foot into it when merging onto the freeway. 10 mpg is unacceptable and while I can accept that a motor and drive-train will become more efficient as it's broken in, it's unlikely to believe that this would improve by 90%.

The road conditions in our fair cities (Henderson and Las Vegas) are over all pretty good but a significant number of intersections have channels or dips cut through them to direct the water flow when it rains (really amazing to see the amount of water rushing down the road when we get a good rain storm) and the X3 does a great job riding over these.

It sounds like yours has some issues and the best approach would be to do as others suggested and take another X3 out and compare them. Ours definitely do not exhibit the characteristics you describe in terms of ride and while it's optimistic, perhaps the dealership will do the right thing. Can't believe I said that but one can hope.
To be fair (I can't believe I said that) the 9.9-10.0 mpg is for all city driving. I find that different from suburban driving where I get about 14 mpg which is not very good either.

Your mileage may vary. I hope mine does in the future. I am buying an awful lot of gas at over $3/gallon.

Have you or your wife ever driven a more recent X3? I was wondering if there is any difference you can feel.

BMW was reported to have softened the suspension for 2005 and, I believe, 2007 but I haven't found anything that says this is actually true and what they actually did. Was it a tiny improvement or a big one? Since they are reported to have softened the suspension twice they knew something was up and tried to fix it...just like the AT.
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