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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #76  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:44 AM
poolman poolman is offline
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Finally getting to start my project--my tq wrench is American--any good site to convert the measures?
Beside the question it's a good way to bump this back up to the front so's I can find it easier down the road.
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  #77  
Old 10-09-2009, 11:12 AM
cn90 cn90 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poolman View Post
-any good site to convert the measures?
Hmmm,

How about Google "ft-lb Nm conversion":
http://www.boltscience.com/pages/convert.htm

Basically whatever Nm values in my DIY, take it and divide by 1.35582 to get ft-lb.
For example:

100 Nm / 1.35582 = 74 ft-lb

I have to tell your high school Physics teacher you slept through his class (joke)...hehe....!!!
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  #78  
Old 10-09-2009, 02:34 PM
poolman poolman is offline
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Ya got me CN90- Thanks for the conversion table
-Three hours into the first side--got my strut back together and ready to go back in--have installed the wheel bearing--I suggest that it be a given that you have a good impact wrench and strong compressor when replacing these bearings--it would have been a bear to do that with out those two items-the bolts are hell--they are in there with a lot of red loctite on them-all this is passengers side by the way--what I haven't been able to do is get the dang ball joint to seperate from the housing so that I can change out the control arm--I have cranked and cranked on this sucker and no go
starting to get into to my ---Friday Night Burbon Meetings-FNBM--Cranked it down a few more turns and will let it sit over night and begin again in the AM---Should I take my impact wrench to this Harbor Freight tool to get the job done? This is the longest part of the job so far.

Last edited by poolman; 10-09-2009 at 06:07 PM.
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  #79  
Old 10-09-2009, 07:38 PM
cn90 cn90 is online now
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Be patient. Spary WD-40 or PB Blaster into these ball joints on BOTH sides and let it sit overnight.
Tomorrow will be a breeze.
By the time you apply about 100 Nm of torque the Ball joint should come loose.

I'd not use an Impact Wrench on the Ball Joint Tool (possibility of damage to Tool).
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  #80  
Old 10-09-2009, 10:48 PM
poolman poolman is offline
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Thanks CN90---it's setting overnight--will be giving another go in the AM--Gonna give it a little heat from a propane torch for good measure--that might help seperate some things.
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  #81  
Old 10-10-2009, 05:07 AM
cn90 cn90 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poolman View Post
Thanks CN90---it's setting overnight--will be giving another go in the AM--Gonna give it a little heat from a propane torch for good measure--that might help seperate some things.
Heat can be used when workin with Exhuast System but I don't know enough about Steering Knuckle to advise you. Look up before doing it otherwise, you may weaken the Steering Knuckle.
Remember the whole front end sits on the Knuckle!
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  #82  
Old 10-10-2009, 05:44 AM
poolman poolman is offline
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OK--I'll just use that brute force of mine---all 99 lbs of me--I'm a beast--an angry beast--lol--gotta get this done this weekend.
Hey --looking at the strut that's removed compareing it with the Bleistien--the bulge down about 4 inches from the bottom, where it sets into the carrier--on the Bleisitien that bulge is about 1/2 inch lower--does that mean that my car is going to set 1/2 inch higher?
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  #83  
Old 10-10-2009, 07:32 AM
poolman poolman is offline
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Well--now It's on--the tool from Harbor frt broke into--what the heck does I do's now?
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  #84  
Old 10-10-2009, 07:43 AM
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mmm635 mmm635 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poolman View Post
Well--now It's on--the tool from Harbor frt broke into--what the heck does I do's now?
All is well when the HB ball joint tool works! However, you ran into the same thing I did. My ball joint was practically frozen and it almost got to the point that my ball joint tool was going to break.

If you have air tools, then you might be able to get er done. I ended up attaching my air hammer and used the bit that had a point on it. The point fit perfectly into the recess located on the end of the ball joint threads (where the hex wrench sits to hold it in place). Just place it in there and let the hammer do the work. This allows all of the pressure in a more concentrated point load. It came out pretty easy. If the sleeve also comes out from the knuckle with the ball joint, then you can easily remove it with a puller. Then, just place it back in and make sure you get it started evenly back in the knuckle. I think I may have used a larger socket that fir the circumference of the sleeve and tapped a good portion of it in. After that, the rest of it will go in when you are tightening down the new ball joint.

This is what it looked like when it came out:




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Last edited by mmm635; 10-10-2009 at 08:06 AM.
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  #85  
Old 10-10-2009, 07:59 AM
poolman poolman is offline
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Thanks for the idea--just tried it to no avail---I'm going after it again in a little while--sprayed so more
PB Blaster on it--wish me luck guys--I'm stranded--just me alone here at the house and the only thing I can watch is --Blare Witch---I'm damned
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  #86  
Old 10-10-2009, 08:04 AM
cn90 cn90 is online now
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....does that mean that my car is going to set 1/2 inch higher?
Nope,

I made the same observation too, Bilstein Strut is longer than Sachs OEM from the box but....
Read my DIY, I mentioned it in there, after the Bilstein is installed, the car will sit higher, no need to panic, give it about 15-30 min, it will settle down nicely.
In virtually all cars, tt is the SPRING, not the strut, that determines the height.
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  #87  
Old 10-10-2009, 08:10 AM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmm635 View Post
My ball joint was practically frozen and it almost got to the point that my ball joint tool was going to break.

If you have air tools, then you might be able to get er done. I ended up attaching my air hammer and used the bit that had a point on it. The point fit perfectly into the recess located on the end of the ball joint threads (where the hex wrench sits to hold it in place). Just place it in there and let the hammer do the work. This allows all of the pressure in a more concentrated point load. It came out pretty easy. If the sleeve also comes out from the knuckle with the ball joint, then you can easily remove it with a puller. Then, just place it back in and make sure you get it started evenly back in the knuckle. I think I may have used a larger socket that fir the circumference of the sleeve and tapped a good portion of it in. After that, the rest of it will go in when you are tightening down the new ball joint.
[/IMG]

Poolman, you are not alone. I too, encounter the same situation you did and wound up using a concrete chisel to the recessed ball joint bolt like Michel. I, unfortunately, do not have a compressor or air tools. Hence a few dozen hits from a dead blow hammer with the chisel and the it came out. The sleeve came out along the the ball joint and with another dozen taps of a hammer finishing off by tightening down new ball joint and nut.

If you are not too concerned about tearing up the ball joint boot, you can also try using a pickle fork. The combination of pickle fork and concrete chisel. Assuming you have both of them will get it out, eventually. Sometimes it just takes brute force when all else fails. Just be careful of you hands/fingers and damaging any parts you are not replacing during the overhaul.
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  #88  
Old 10-10-2009, 06:03 PM
poolman poolman is offline
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I have tried to use the ball joint tool and the air hammer---to no avaial------I'm now tearing the heart out of it all and replacing all thats going with this ---if this doesn't work-- I'm going to puss out and have the **** ****ed out of me by letting the dealership have their way--can't say more--ya know they love to see threads like this.
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  #89  
Old 10-10-2009, 06:34 PM
poolman poolman is offline
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I don't know why the tools don't do their job--I have repalced my struts and wheel bearings and for me that was the first thing I needed to do-----but what has my goat---my harbor frt tool has now failed twice and broken. I'm not about to go through this again--I'm suspecting this is about to become serious money and I have no resolve about it's ending---Tried to use the air hammer---didn't work--thought there was no force behind it--pointed towards the concrete on my car deck--1/2 inch chishel in less than a secound---this force still couldn't solve the problem--I guess the next thing will be the most dispiscable--take to an indy or the dealer--I hate it when that happens

Last edited by poolman; 10-11-2009 at 05:00 AM.
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  #90  
Old 10-10-2009, 09:18 PM
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DHoang DHoang is offline
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Try to put some heat to the outer joint so the bore will expand some.



I use a propane torch as a last resort on alot of motorcycle repair projects where rust and seizures are pretty common. This seems to get me the results I'm looking for...Good luck.
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  #91  
Old 10-10-2009, 10:15 PM
cn90 cn90 is online now
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Somehow my Harbor Freight Tool worked just fine as in my DIY. I guess I am lucky.

The HF tool uses the leverage concept, very much like a pair of pliers, but there is another alternative that uses STRAIGHT force rather than "pliers" tool:



Or Tool 266H here:
http://www.samstagsales.com/sirtools.htm
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  #92  
Old 10-10-2009, 10:32 PM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
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Poolman,

If you still haven't gotten it off, you can try two tools from Autozone, if nearby:

OEM27016 Pitman Fuller or OEM27022 Tie Rod Puller. They are similar to CN90s tool and applies downward pressure, I forget which one gives enough clearance underneath there so if they have both get both.
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  #93  
Old 10-10-2009, 10:46 PM
cn90 cn90 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsgene View Post
Poolman,

If you still haven't gotten it off, you can try two tools from Autozone, if nearby:

OEM27016 Pitman Fuller or OEM27022 Tie Rod Puller. They are similar to CN90s tool and applies downward pressure, I forget which one gives enough clearance underneath there so if they have both get both.
dvsgene,

NONE of the tools you mentioned in the Autozone link works! It is a tight space and nothing in that lists works.

The only options are:

1. The HF Tool as I mentioned in this DIY. But it depends on the quality of the metal, the Chinese-made Tool (from HF) may not be as good as the German-made Ball Joint Tool.

2. The "STRAIGHT" Tool as in my post above.

3. Use #1 or #2, apply tight pressure (about 80-90 Nm), then heat the knuckle part (not the tool) a bit with propane torch to expand the knuckle a bit. Under pressure (from the tool) + Heat, the ball joint should come out.

4. Pickle Fork + Hammer.

5. Or take the WHOLE knuckle out (it is held only by: a. Strut Pinch Bolt; b. Thrust Arm, c. Control Arm; d. Tier Rod).
Once the Knuckle is out you can deal with it easier on the bench.
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  #94  
Old 10-10-2009, 10:50 PM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
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Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
dvsgene,

NONE of the tools you mentioned in the Autozone link works! It is a tight space and nothing in that lists works.
Cn90, it does on the tie rod because I used it on that. If he's doing the control arms or thrust arms, it won't because of clearance issues.

Oh, and it's good for pulling off the sleeve from the ball joint should the sleeve come off with it too.

Basically I suggest Poolman get whatever suspension tools he can from Autozone, because a few of them come in handy and it beats running back an forth for them. Considering it's "free",why not get all possible choices. I did and it saved me several trips. Not to mention Autozone is open everyday and ordering a special tool takes over a week.

Last edited by dvsgene; 10-10-2009 at 11:06 PM.
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  #95  
Old 10-10-2009, 11:04 PM
cn90 cn90 is online now
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Originally Posted by dvsgene View Post
Cn90, it does on the tie rod because I used it on that. If he's doing the control arms or thrust arms, it won't because of clearance issues.

Oh, and it's good for pulling off the sleeve from the ball joint should the sleeve come off too.
dvsgene,

The Tie Rod is virtually never an issue, any tool will get it off.

The BIGGEST problem in BMW is the Thrust Arm + Control Arm BallJoints! They are very tight!
In this Picture of my DIY, you can see the Ball Joint Tool being applied on the Thrust Arm:

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  #96  
Old 10-10-2009, 11:10 PM
dvsgene dvsgene is offline
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Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
dvsgene,

The Tie Rod is virtually never an issue, any tool will get it off.

The BIGGEST problem in BMW is the Thrust Arm + Control Arm BallJoints! They are very tight!
In this Picture of my DIY, you can see the Ball Joint Tool being applied on the Thrust Arm:
Cn90,

I know you are the resident suspension expert so, I'll leave it to you to help Poolman. I'm just sharing my experience with my overhaul when I had issues and what I used. Maybe my choice of tools was silly but they worked for my needs. That's all.

Have a good night.
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  #97  
Old 10-11-2009, 05:18 AM
poolman poolman is offline
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Here's the last of it--I have rebuilt the passenger's side with new strut and wheelbearing---I have not replaced the control arm and have not replaced the bushings in my thrust control arm--neither of those on the passenger side would budge on the ball joint side---hence the following--I have now repalced the wheel bearing on the drivers side--have the strut out and ready to go back in--thats all I'm going to try---I figure that if I can get the drivers side ball joints out--it would be a mess not having the passengers side fixed--so the cars going up the road to an indy shop a soon as I can get an appointment to have those two things repaired--I"M NOT WOOOSSSING OUT---------------------I"M GIVING UP--thats different-------------
Just wanted to make that clear-------I have finally cussed enough------I'm sure that the neighborhood from which I live will be most appreciative to not hear the gentle hum of air tools on their Sunday afternoon end of the weekend.
The biggest reason that I'm heading in this direction--my Son returned from Hampton Sydney college late yesterday afternoon for a 4 day break---my heads a hurting after last night--I'm 57--I don't understand why I can't keep up with him-he's only 19 -but I'm still trying---I won't ever let an indy or the dealer have that job---
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  #98  
Old 10-11-2009, 06:52 AM
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mmm635 mmm635 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poolman View Post
Here's the last of it--I have rebuilt the passenger's side with new strut and wheelbearing---I have not replaced the control arm and have not replaced the bushings in my thrust control arm--neither of those on the passenger side would budge on the ball joint side---hence the following--I have now repalced the wheel bearing on the drivers side--have the strut out and ready to go back in--thats all I'm going to try---I figure that if I can get the drivers side ball joints out--it would be a mess not having the passengers side fixed--so the cars going up the road to an indy shop a soon as I can get an appointment to have those two things repaired--I"M NOT WOOOSSSING OUT---------------------I"M GIVING UP--thats different-------------
Just wanted to make that clear-------I have finally cussed enough------I'm sure that the neighborhood from which I live will be most appreciative to not hear the gentle hum of air tools on their Sunday afternoon end of the weekend.
The biggest reason that I'm heading in this direction--my Son returned from Hampton Sydney college late yesterday afternoon for a 4 day break---my heads a hurting after last night--I'm 57--I don't understand why I can't keep up with him-he's only 19 -but I'm still trying---I won't ever let an indy or the dealer have that job---
Poolman,

Something to consider before you give it to an indy. The oem Balljoint tool costs around $268, but it is guaranteed to get the ball joints off with no problem (worth the money). I would imagine you will be spending that much on labor. So, you could always invest in the tool and have it for the future and complete the job. I am slowly saving for that tool myself.

Hampton Sydney College...I know where a good chunk of your money goes! My brother taught their for about 7-8 years. Beautiful campus and good academics.
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  #99  
Old 10-11-2009, 06:59 AM
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mmm635 mmm635 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Somehow my Harbor Freight Tool worked just fine as in my DIY. I guess I am lucky.

The HF tool uses the leverage concept, very much like a pair of pliers, but there is another alternative that uses STRAIGHT force rather than "pliers" tool:



Or Tool 266H here:
http://www.samstagsales.com/sirtools.htm
I don't think that tool will work on an I6 car for any of the three arms. The tool is specifically used on tie rods that are attached to a center link for cars with a steering box, or similar setup (pretty much the joint is clear all the way around to get the tool on). There is not enough clearance to use that tool on any of the arms on the knuckle due to the design.

I actually have that tool you posted up and used it for the tie rods on my E24. I would imagine it can be used on the V8 cars since their steering setup is similar to the E24. When I was having trouble getting my arms off, the thought occurred to me to try the tool in question, but simply was not cut out for the job.
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  #100  
Old 10-11-2009, 10:08 AM
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Are there pictures of the BMW tool? How is it different?
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