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  #1  
Old 09-08-2003, 12:10 PM
Pvt. Joker Pvt. Joker is offline
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Interior pic of Dale Earnhardt's car after his fatal crash.

I was cleaning up my hard drive and came across this pic. Many of you have probably seen it before.
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  #2  
Old 09-08-2003, 07:50 PM
Dan Martin Dan Martin is offline
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I'm still amazed that he died in that accident. Aside from the wheel, the inside looks pretty good.
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  #3  
Old 09-08-2003, 08:36 PM
bluer1 bluer1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
I'm still amazed that he died in that accident. Aside from the wheel, the inside looks pretty good.
I'm not - but then I always wear a full face helmet at the track.
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  #4  
Old 09-08-2003, 08:56 PM
in_d_haus in_d_haus is offline
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We had a club member that specializes in racing safety devices come speak to us and he went in depth about that wreck. While it looked fairly mild the loads were subatantial on his neck
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Old 09-08-2003, 09:10 PM
bluer1 bluer1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_d_haus
We had a club member that specializes in racing safety devices come speak to us and he went in depth about that wreck. While it looked fairly mild the loads were subatantial on his neck
The loads from which impact? The car hitting the wall or his face contacting the wheel?


My disdain for Nascar aside, I still fall into the "full-faced helmet and tight harness" camp.
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  #6  
Old 09-09-2003, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluer1
The loads from which impact? The car hitting the wall or his face contacting the wheel?


My disdain for Nascar aside, I still fall into the "full-faced helmet and tight harness" camp.
I believe he was wearing a full face. And his accident and death helped push many series to require the HANS Device for drivers. Tight harness... I have know idea what you are saying with this comment... have you seen the harness that NASCAR requires.
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Old 09-09-2003, 07:31 AM
bluer1 bluer1 is offline
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Originally Posted by Artslinger
I believe he was wearing a full face. And his accident and death helped push many series to require the HANS Device for drivers. Tight harness... I have know idea what you are saying with this comment... have you seen the harness that NASCAR requires.
He wasn't wearing a full faced helmet and in fact used a non-standard harness, (standard harness, but non-standard installation and was reported to regularly wear it quite loosely).

The HANS device is nothing more than a whip prevention mechanism. It won't prevent posterior mandible/maxilla displacement.

At the end of the day, he was primarily responsible for his own safety.
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  #8  
Old 09-09-2003, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by DougDogs
His son switched to full face the next time he got into a race car.
Learning from others mistakes is a good thing!
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  #9  
Old 09-09-2003, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluer1
He wasn't wearing a full faced helmet and in fact used a non-standard harness, (standard harness, but non-standard installation and was reported to regularly wear it quite loosely).

The HANS device is nothing more than a whip prevention mechanism. It won't prevent posterior mandible/maxilla displacement.

At the end of the day, he was primarily responsible for his own safety.
Not necessarily NASCAR has known for a long time the problem with the very rigid cage and a hard wall... Neil Bonnett, Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin. Not to mention you're just speculating on how tight his belts were at the race, and I can find no mention of him not wearing a full face, and the helmet was never mention as a contributing factor to his death.

A high-speed-to-basically-zero-stop a "G spike" or acceleration-deceleration injuries have been the cause for the most of the recent deaths in NASCAR. I personally believe that the HANs device has saved more then a few Winston Cup drivers from serious injuries.


"The investigation also essentially confirms the findings of the court-appointed independent expert who determined Earnhardt died of a sudden head-whip when his car hit the wall Feb. 18 on the final lap of the Daytona 500, sources close to the investigation told Sentinel auto racing writer Ed Hinton on the condition of anonymity."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mot...rdt_safety_ap/

http://www.nascar.com/2001/NEWS/08/2...sr_reportlead/
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  #10  
Old 09-09-2003, 10:32 AM
cenotaph cenotaph is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artslinger
and I can find no mention of him not wearing a full face,
That's probably because anyone who followed NASCAR even a little while he was racing knows that he always wore an open face helmet. So no stories bother to mention it. It would be like mentioning that the sky is blue. I don't have any links, but I remember some debate about open vs. full face helmets after the wreck and some one saying that he was wearing an open face helmet that day.
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  #11  
Old 09-09-2003, 10:36 AM
in_d_haus in_d_haus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artslinger
Not necessarily NASCAR has known for a long time the problem with the very rigid cage and a hard wall... Neil Bonnett, Adam Petty, Kenny Irwin. Not to mention you're just speculating on how tight his belts were at the race, and I can find no mention of him not wearing a full face, and the helmet was never mention as a contributing factor to his death.

A high-speed-to-basically-zero-stop a "G spike" or acceleration-deceleration injuries have been the cause for the most of the recent deaths in NASCAR. I personally believe that the HANs device has saved more then a few Winston Cup drivers from serious injuries.


"The investigation also essentially confirms the findings of the court-appointed independent expert who determined Earnhardt died of a sudden head-whip when his car hit the wall Feb. 18 on the final lap of the Daytona 500, sources close to the investigation told Sentinel auto racing writer Ed Hinton on the condition of anonymity."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/mot...rdt_safety_ap/

http://www.nascar.com/2001/NEWS/08/2...sr_reportlead/
Yup, I haven't seen anything concluding that an open face helmet was the cause of his death...it was attributed to head whip which broke his neck at the base of the skull.
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  #12  
Old 09-09-2003, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cenotaph
That's probably because anyone who followed NASCAR even a little while he was racing knows that he always wore an open face helmet. So no stories bother to mention it. It would be like mentioning that the sky is blue. I don't have any links, but I remember some debate about open vs. full face helmets after the wreck and some one saying that he was wearing an open face helmet that day.
Not true, later in his career he wore an open face only at certain times on short tracks. He could have been wearing an open face but I do not recall that being the case.


Correction, he was not wearing full face helmet, this was not the cause of death though:

"Helmet effects and restraint effects

It has been suggested that a full face helmet might have been an important aid in preventing the injuries in this crash. This is incorrect. If Mr. Earnhardt had worn a full face helmet, he would still have experienced the same tragic outcome. There are several reasons for this. Addition of a full face helmet does not (affect) the inertial (whip) mechanism. In the chin impact mechanism, the impact was submental and as such directed forces posterosuperiorly (upward and backward). Addition of the full face helmet would not significantly alter how that force was transmitted through the maxilla and mandibular condyles (face and jaw). Moreover, it would not have significantly changed the ride-down distance and therefore the deceleration of the head during the phase in which the steering wheel impact and deformation occurred. In contrast, a full face shield provides benefit in protecting the jaw and face from direct trauma. It also can work in conjunction with other systems to control the head. Thus, while not ameliorating Mr. Earnhardt's injury, a full face shield is of potential benefit to other drivers."

http://www.skfriends.com/earnhardt-a...ers-report.htm

Last edited by Artslinger; 09-09-2003 at 12:17 PM.
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  #13  
Old 09-09-2003, 12:10 PM
in_d_haus in_d_haus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougDogs
Only speculation here, but wouldn't the travel distance of the "head whip" have been limited if he was wearing a full face as apposed to the open face???
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No, there would be little difference
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