Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)

E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series E60 Sedan was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E61 wagon followed shortly there after. The E60/E61 5 series is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-20-2013, 02:08 AM
kskane's Avatar
kskane kskane is offline
From DownUnder
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,010
Mein Auto: '04 525i M54 with 6HP19Z
Calling for final Verdict - Fuel Injector Cleaner Additive !?!?!?

Hi Guys, first up thank you for reading it and hope you don't jump to next topic since this is about Fuel Injector Cleaner Additives. I know this is a well discussed topic in different forums and I would like to know is it going to help my particular problem at all and/or has Fuel Injector Additive got any drawbacks.

I have a 2004 525i M54 with Auto trans. Recently over the past months, the car has done rough idle when stationary about four times. Once you push the pedal and car is running, the rough idle has gone. I have checked and verified the MAF Sensor appears clean, Disa Valve is good and functional with its O-ring showing wear as normal at 145K's, I have put new spark plugs and engine mounts seems okay.

Everything so far is pointing to Fuel Injectors to be bad. I really do not want to change the Fuel Injector unless that is the last option. So I searched the forums for Fuel Injector cleaning additive. There are mixed opinions on using and not using Fuel Injector Cleaners. Following seems to be the most likely Fuel Injector Cleaners people have used and recommended.
  1. Chevron Techron
  2. Redline SI-1
  3. BG 44K
  4. STP (something)
  5. Pro-Guard Fuel Injector Cleaner

I called my local dealer here in Australia. and according to the parts specialist BMW does not sell any Fuel Injector Cleaner Additive solution. Although, most or some of the people in US have posted that the BMW dealers tried to rip them off by Fuel Injector cleaning service for about US$180-275.

Another important point that I am concerned is, that my E60 the fuel filter is inside the petrol tank. So I would like everybody's opinion (who wants to share) - is adding Fuel Injector Cleaning Additive has any drawback to the Fuel Filter or the Injectors on the 2004 E60 ( I know the later E60 has a bad batch of injectors, not mine).

Also, if the answer is yes to use the Fuel Injectors, then which one out of the above list have you used ?

Thanks for your contributions.
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 05-20-2013, 02:53 AM
todd92 todd92 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NJ
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 628
Mein Auto: 13 X3 3.5, 05 ZHP
Your issue isn't dirty fuel injectors.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-20-2013, 04:10 AM
Inadream78 Inadream78 is offline
Registered User
Location: Holiday fl
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 4
Mein Auto: 2008 535 I
Lightbulb Just a thought

Hello, we use chevron with tectron and also shell premium... we periodically use sea foam for the carbon buildup that the 535 and 353 are known for... As far as fuel injector cleaner I think that is pretty much up to opinion, what I would do is research the different ones and see the reviews on them.
__________________
Is there anything else to say except its not a Prius or a smart car it's got turbo and knows how to use it so get out of its way !!!!

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-20-2013, 09:37 AM
v8power v8power is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: IL
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 198
Mein Auto: 2013 550xi M-sport
Chevron techron are quite popular.
Lucas are good too.

But do change oil soon after the treated tank is used up, as they degrade your oil real quick.

Check/clean your vanos as they will cause low and rough idle too if clogged or failure.
__________________
2011 X5 35i Sport
2007 E92 335i
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-20-2013, 02:01 PM
booyaazaa's Avatar
booyaazaa booyaazaa is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Ramon, CA
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,701
Mein Auto: '09 AW 535i, Fiat 500e
Calling for final Verdict - Fuel Injector Cleaner Additive !?!?!?

Lucas injector cleaner FTW! IMO.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________

2009 AW 535i
-Sport, Premium Package, and Comfort Access
-FBO, custom Cobb E45 map, Fuel_it Stg2 LPFP, Performance Gearing LSD.

Follow on IG: Booyaazaa
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-20-2013, 02:57 PM
johnniek johnniek is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Hunterdon County NJ
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 129
Mein Auto: 2009 528ix sedan
Calling for final Verdict - Fuel Injector Cleaner Additive !?!?!?

Techron only 1000 miles before your next oil change.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-20-2013, 04:07 PM
mrgrumpy mrgrumpy is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Atlanta
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 155
Mein Auto: 2005 545i Sport
If you want the "down and dirty" (outside of the marketing hype) then read the MSDS on each product.

That information has to be "factual" unlike marketing hype.

I use BG 44K, and BG "Engine Purge", but at the end of the day; all of these MSDS compounds can be bought at Home Depot or Lowe's home centers.

"If" you have a rough idle, then try BG's 44K products.

More than likely you WILL NOT notice any difference.

Kerosene, Naphtha, Mineral Spirits, etc., can only do so much.

BG's "Engine Purge" uses Naphtha and Kerosene and as I recall; it WILL remove a lot of sludge/carbon before you change the oil.

I use it because that "Home Depot" mix does indeed work in removing crap from your engine.

It cost me $30 for a liter and I know that if I mixed my own per the MSDS using Home Depot chemicals it would be cheaper.

But: Time is money and so I give BG some profit to save me time.

Engine Purge will indeed remove a lot of crap from your engine.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-20-2013, 06:25 PM
booyaazaa's Avatar
booyaazaa booyaazaa is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Ramon, CA
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,701
Mein Auto: '09 AW 535i, Fiat 500e
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inadream78 View Post
Hello, we use chevron with tectron and also shell premium... we periodically use sea foam for the carbon buildup that the 535 and 353 are known for... As far as fuel injector cleaner I think that is pretty much up to opinion, what I would do is research the different ones and see the reviews on them.
Hey just curious if you did notice a difference after the seafoaming the intake.
__________________

2009 AW 535i
-Sport, Premium Package, and Comfort Access
-FBO, custom Cobb E45 map, Fuel_it Stg2 LPFP, Performance Gearing LSD.

Follow on IG: Booyaazaa
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-20-2013, 06:46 PM
andrewkpt andrewkpt is offline
Infamous06
Location: kingsport,TN
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 103
Mein Auto: 2006 bmw x3 3.0i
fuel injector knocked my gas mileage down then my next tank went back up ? its like after i put it in, the cleaner filled the car with the crap then it exited after the 2nd tank that the car was treated ( if that makes sense ) hahahah
__________________



Black
Mans
Whip
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-20-2013, 08:58 PM
whoever whoever is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: new york
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 861
Mein Auto: honda civic
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8power View Post
Chevron techron are quite popular.
Lucas are good too.

But do change oil soon after the treated tank is used up, as they degrade your oil real quick.

Check/clean your vanos as they will cause low and rough idle too if clogged or failure.
It degrade engine oil? I got Techron and using it right now and plan to change oil as soon as it's done.

But I also got some low dose Costco Chevron and plan to use it more frequently. Should I skip that and just do it once before oil change?

Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 05-20-2013, 11:00 PM
UltimateDriving UltimateDriving is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Somewhere
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 929
Mein Auto: A Car
Some people change the oil after a couple Techron runs because supposedly it does not burns off with the fuel.
I dont know if thats true though.

My best advice would be to change all injectors, i mean the car is from 2004 so they might be giving out.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 05-21-2013, 09:21 AM
booyaazaa's Avatar
booyaazaa booyaazaa is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: San Ramon, CA
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,701
Mein Auto: '09 AW 535i, Fiat 500e
Calling for final Verdict - Fuel Injector Cleaner Additive !?!?!?

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateDriving View Post
Some people change the oil after a couple Techron runs because supposedly it does not burns off with the fuel.
I dont know if thats true though.

My best advice would be to change all injectors, i mean the car is from 2004 so they might be giving out.
Interesting I haven't heard of that issue before. If it doesn't completely burn off wouldn't it just get expelled into the exhaust with the rest of the unburnt fuel into the cats?

OP, like what Ultimate said probably replace your injectors since you are probably due.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
__________________

2009 AW 535i
-Sport, Premium Package, and Comfort Access
-FBO, custom Cobb E45 map, Fuel_it Stg2 LPFP, Performance Gearing LSD.

Follow on IG: Booyaazaa
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 05-22-2013, 07:39 PM
kskane's Avatar
kskane kskane is offline
From DownUnder
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,010
Mein Auto: '04 525i M54 with 6HP19Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd92 View Post
Your issue isn't dirty fuel injectors.
Thanks todd92, if it is not Fuel Injectors, what else can it be?

Also, guys thanks for all the opinion. I see most people are standing by Techron, question I would like to clarify is that does the Additive has any impact on the engine oil i.e. do I need to change oil after adding additive?

If do go down the path to get new ones, then instead of OEM Siemens injector, are there any performance Injectors available for a 2004 E60 M54?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 05-24-2013, 05:39 AM
Margal Margal is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: NY
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 142
Mein Auto: E60 545i B/B, Manual
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8power View Post
Chevron techron are quite popular.
Lucas are good too.

But do change oil soon after the treated tank is used up, as they degrade your oil real quick.

Check/clean your vanos as they will cause low and rough idle too if clogged or failure.
I am not the engine expert whoever I understand how the conbation engines function. Just wondering what the fuel system or injector cleaners have to do with oil? They are not engine cleaners. or you mean that a little bit of it may sip throgh cylinders and get to the oil? Can you be more specific about that? As far as I've read shall, chevron and other top gas companies are adding additives similar to above mentined cleanerswith small doses.
Thx
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 05-24-2013, 08:53 AM
v8power v8power is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: IL
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 198
Mein Auto: 2013 550xi M-sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margal View Post
I am not the engine expert whoever I understand how the conbation engines function. Just wonderingco fuel. ystem or injector cleaners have to do with oil? . ey are not . gine cleaners. or you mean that a little bit of it may sip throgh cylinders and get to the oil? Can you be more specific about that? As far as I've read shall, chevron and other top gas companies are adding additives similar to above mentined cleanerswith small doses.
Thx
If you go in the oil guru forum there are lots of talk about fuel additives. Yes fuel will seep through cylinder walls. Compression loss varys from engine to engine depending on wear and tear. So fuel seepage will vary too. Techron for example will thicken the oil to possible sludge if left for over period of time. Many manu factors of aditives recommend changing oil after the full tank.

I'm sure it won't make a big difference on an average driving vehicle but I'm just anal when it comes to oil and prolinging these engine, especially with these sensitive BMW cars.
These cleaning agents knocks carbons off cylinder walls, valves, etc. Imagine it shearing off the oil on the rod crank bearings. Well, maybe thats over exaggeration but could happen in real world high revving when oil is critical.
__________________
2011 X5 35i Sport
2007 E92 335i
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-14-2015, 02:08 AM
kskane's Avatar
kskane kskane is offline
From DownUnder
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,010
Mein Auto: '04 525i M54 with 6HP19Z
Revisiting my old thread, and want to see if anyone has any good experience with Liqui Molly Fuel Injector cleaner? Are they as good as Techron?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-14-2015, 04:50 AM
munsonbw munsonbw is offline
Registered User
Location: Hartselle, AL
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 70
Mein Auto: 2006 530XiT
There is an internet quote floating around from a Gm engineer that questioned why anyone thinks fuel injector cleaner works. Can you think of a better cleaning solution than pressurized gasoline? I cannot say if it is true or if the guy even knew what he was talking about, but if we are talking about adding stuff to the gas (solvents - petroleum distillates, of which gas is as well), I also am very skeptical that it does anything. I suspect placebo, but would love to see some data to prove it. I personally use the stuff every now and again because it is cheap and I have never heard of any negative affects.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-14-2015, 04:54 AM
kskane's Avatar
kskane kskane is offline
From DownUnder
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,010
Mein Auto: '04 525i M54 with 6HP19Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by munsonbw View Post
There is an internet quote floating around from a Gm engineer that questioned why anyone thinks fuel injector cleaner works. Can you think of a better cleaning solution than pressurized gasoline? I cannot say if it is true or if the guy even knew what he was talking about, but if we are talking about adding stuff to the gas (solvents - petroleum distillates, of which gas is as well), I also am very skeptical that it does anything. I suspect placebo, but would love to see some data to prove it. I personally use the stuff every now and again because it is cheap and I have never heard of any negative affects.
Ever used Liqui Molly?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-14-2015, 10:03 AM
u3b3rg33k u3b3rg33k is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,415
Mein Auto: e30, e60, R1100S
I once serviced fuel injectors. After 25 years, I sent my e30's injectors off to be properly cleaned. I got a before and after report on spray pattern and lb/flow rates. they were all over the place before, and almost the same after.

I was also having cold start issues (after sitting for a while, the first turn of the key wouldn't start the car, but the second one always would). turned out one of the injectors was leaking down. cleaning fixed it. I don't think some magic in a can is going to accomplish that.
it was way, way cheaper than buying new injectors.
I used this place:
http://www.okinjectors.com/my-website#!__my-website/faq

Last edited by u3b3rg33k; 01-14-2015 at 10:04 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-14-2015, 05:25 PM
munsonbw munsonbw is offline
Registered User
Location: Hartselle, AL
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 70
Mein Auto: 2006 530XiT
Quote:
Originally Posted by kskane View Post
Ever used Liqui Molly?
No, I have never noticed it for sale in the states. I have used mostly the cheap stuff, STP, Lucas, etc. As mrgrumpy states, I am pretty sure that they are all using more of less the same hydrocarbon and napthalene compounds, at best at different rates. Again, maybe someone has had good success with one brand when another failed and I would be interested to hear the effects. Like I mentioned before, I suspect that mostly it is placebo if we are talking the kind you mix into your gas tank. If you introduce the compound of choice into the vacuum lines or intake I do believe you will see some affect if carbon buildup is an issue. However, to further perpetuate my snake oil skepticism (I am a diehard pessimist, so you know) my dad used to de-carbon engines all the time by spraying the garden hose into the carb. I can't say if this is still a good idea with modern engines, but special sauce wasn't required to get that affect.

Anyway, I suggest to pick one and try a few tanks of it. Worst case you spend $20 and gain nothing. Best case is you see improvement and you can educate the rest of us on your findings.

Perhaps we should also discuss more about your symptoms and less about your diagnosis of clogged injectors. Does the M54 have Vanos solenoids? Have you cleaned them? This is a known solution to improve general running of the N52 engines. The fact that revving the engine seems to remedy the rough idle does not sound like a vacuum leak, but have you checked these? Things like the PCV/crankcase vent systems do fail as they age and get miles on them and contribute to rough idle due to unmetered air entering the engine. If the rough idle goes away after some throttle, maybe it is just electro-mechanical devices taking a bit more time to settle. My old '80s 911 would barely stay running after a hot start, but apply some throttle for 20 seconds and it would purr like a kitten. I know why, but for the money required it wasn't worth it to me for such a minor inconvenience.

Good luck,
Ben
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-14-2015, 05:53 PM
70383roadrunner 70383roadrunner is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: New Jersey
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 135
Mein Auto: 1989 535i/2008 528i
I use Seafoam.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-14-2015, 05:58 PM
Gangplank's Avatar
Gangplank Gangplank is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Las Vegas
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 615
Mein Auto: '04 545i
Fuel additives from time to time (techron & Lucas).

Oil additives, never again.
__________________
2011 135i | Sport Pkg | Leather | DCT | PPK
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-14-2015, 06:37 PM
u3b3rg33k u3b3rg33k is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,415
Mein Auto: e30, e60, R1100S
Actually spraying water in an engine will clean it out. Ideally you want it at load. Look up the research on water injection, particularly from WWII aircraft research. They'd tear down an engine that ran significant water injection and it would be spotless inside the combustion chamber. Not sure your MAF will take too kindly to it though.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-15-2015, 02:18 PM
kskane's Avatar
kskane kskane is offline
From DownUnder
Location: Australia
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,010
Mein Auto: '04 525i M54 with 6HP19Z
Quote:
Originally Posted by munsonbw View Post
No, I have never noticed it for sale in the states. I have used mostly the cheap stuff, STP, Lucas, etc. As mrgrumpy states, I am pretty sure that they are all using more of less the same hydrocarbon and napthalene compounds, at best at different rates. Again, maybe someone has had good success with one brand when another failed and I would be interested to hear the effects. Like I mentioned before, I suspect that mostly it is placebo if we are talking the kind you mix into your gas tank. If you introduce the compound of choice into the vacuum lines or intake I do believe you will see some affect if carbon buildup is an issue. However, to further perpetuate my snake oil skepticism (I am a diehard pessimist, so you know) my dad used to de-carbon engines all the time by spraying the garden hose into the carb. I can't say if this is still a good idea with modern engines, but special sauce wasn't required to get that affect.

Anyway, I suggest to pick one and try a few tanks of it. Worst case you spend $20 and gain nothing. Best case is you see improvement and you can educate the rest of us on your findings.

Perhaps we should also discuss more about your symptoms and less about your diagnosis of clogged injectors. Does the M54 have Vanos solenoids? Have you cleaned them? This is a known solution to improve general running of the N52 engines. The fact that revving the engine seems to remedy the rough idle does not sound like a vacuum leak, but have you checked these? Things like the PCV/crankcase vent systems do fail as they age and get miles on them and contribute to rough idle due to unmetered air entering the engine. If the rough idle goes away after some throttle, maybe it is just electro-mechanical devices taking a bit more time to settle. My old '80s 911 would barely stay running after a hot start, but apply some throttle for 20 seconds and it would purr like a kitten. I know why, but for the money required it wasn't worth it to me for such a minor inconvenience.

Good luck,
Ben
My symptoms are rough idle when stopped on light which gets louder with AC (does not happen all the time). Ocassional petrol smell at cold start. Siemens vdo injectors have never been pulled out for 205km's. So, wanted to pull them out and diy clean with 12v supply and some cleaner or brake cleaner. So thought to ask about liquid molly as it commonly available.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06-11-2016, 03:55 PM
manorcar manorcar is offline
Registered User
Location: Boston
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 1
Mein Auto: Ford
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8power View Post
Chevron techron are quite popular.
Lucas are good too.

But do change oil soon after the treated tank is used up, as they degrade your oil real quick.

Check/clean your vanos as they will cause low and rough idle too if clogged or failure.
Chevron is awesome, but it's quite expensive. Lucas and BK44 are better alternatives I think.
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms