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E60 / E61 (2004 - 2010)
BMW 5-Series E60 Sedan was first seen in the Unites States in the fall of 2003 with a 2004 Model Year designation. The E61 wagon followed shortly there after. The E60/E61 5 series is now available as a 528i, 528xi, 535i, 535xi, 550i and a 535xi sports wagon! -- View the E60 Wiki

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  #526  
Old 03-06-2013, 06:17 AM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_chris View Post
Hi guys... I'm new to this forum and have been keenly following this particular thread for the last few weeks.

I've posted my problems on a UK forum: http://www.bimmerforums.co.uk/forum/...rgggh-t127624/ where there's lots of us experiencing similar issues, and not many of us have found a definite fix.

Basically, I've got the fluctuating revs and a 2-3 second delay in selecting reverse. I've tried almost everything (new trans oil, cleaning sensors etc) and am getting really frustrated. But this thread is really making me think seriously about replacing the solenoids. My question is, do new solenoids somehow need coding to the car? I'm going to get a local independent garage to do the work, but I'm not sure what needs to be done, software-wise, once the new solenoids are in. Do I have to fiddle with the TCU via DIS (or at least INPA)?

I'm capable of resetting the gearbox adaptation values in INPA myself, but not sure about doing much more beyond that...

I've managed to source genuine original ZF parts from a store in China (of all places), and the total for the 7-piece solenoid set, plus mechatronic sealing sleeve, plus seal adapter, is US$444 delivered. Not bad, I think.

http://raymondtech.en.alibaba.com/pr...NOID_PACK.html

So, if I'm to go down this route of replacing the solenoids, what else needs to be done? ie. coding the TCU.

And are there any more parts that I should get replaced while the oil pan's out and the mechatronic unit's exposed?

Thanks in advance for your help! Hopefully this will be another success story! (please god!)...

Chris.
New solenoids do not need to be coded to the car. They're just basically dummy solenoids that do what they are told--there's no feedback or serial numbers or anything like that for the car to know they were changed.

No coding required.

Just reset adaptations.

Also change the seal that goes between the mechatronics and transmission oil pump. It looks like this:
. Very important that this seal doesn't leak

The mechatronics "Sleeve" could also stand to be replaced, but if it's not leaking then it's not necessarily needed at the same time.
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  #527  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
New solenoids do not need to be coded to the car. They're just basically dummy solenoids that do what they are told--there's no feedback or serial numbers or anything like that for the car to know they were changed.

No coding required.

Just reset adaptations.

Also change the seal that goes between the mechatronics and transmission oil pump. It looks like this:
. Very important that this seal doesn't leak

The mechatronics "Sleeve" could also stand to be replaced, but if it's not leaking then it's not necessarily needed at the same time.
This basically sums it up; you may as well change the mech sealing sleeve while you are at it. It's a $17 part; it can't hurt.
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  #528  
Old 03-06-2013, 01:45 PM
kiwi_chris kiwi_chris is offline
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Yup, those are what I got quotes for:

ZF 6HP26 7-piece solenoid kit (1068 298 044) US$375
Mechatronic seal adapter (0501 219 952 01) US$15.50
Mechatronic sealing sleeve (0501 216 272 01) US$14.30

You all discuss this issue as a 'surge' at about 37mph under light load. But I also notice it (possibly more so) at 20-25mph under a medium-heavy load. For instance, going to the gym today after work, cruising slowly up a hill in Drive, with 5 adults in the car - the hunting/fluctuations were really noticeable, and bounced between 1000 and 1500rpm.

The problem seems to fade away once I get past about 1800rpm on level ground (perhaps 50mph?).

Think it's all related? Or could this be something associated with turbo vacuum hoses or pressure converters, or a clogged DPF, or faulty MAF sensor, or...

*sigh*
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  #529  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwi_chris View Post
Yup, those are what I got quotes for:

ZF 6HP26 7-piece solenoid kit (1068 298 044) US$375
Mechatronic seal adapter (0501 219 952 01) US$15.50
Mechatronic sealing sleeve (0501 216 272 01) US$14.30

You all discuss this issue as a 'surge' at about 37mph under light load. But I also notice it (possibly more so) at 20-25mph under a medium-heavy load. For instance, going to the gym today after work, cruising slowly up a hill in Drive, with 5 adults in the car - the hunting/fluctuations were really noticeable, and bounced between 1000 and 1500rpm.

The problem seems to fade away once I get past about 1800rpm on level ground (perhaps 50mph?).

Think it's all related? Or could this be something associated with turbo vacuum hoses or pressure converters, or a clogged DPF, or faulty MAF sensor, or...

*sigh*

Yep, that's it! Swapping out the solenoids, mech adapter and sealing sleeves seems to fix these issues. Has your tranny ever gone into the limp mode as well?

Bellissima Italia! I got married in Positano three years ago! I will be heading back to Italia some time in August. I can't wait.
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  #530  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:42 PM
peachykonan peachykonan is offline
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Hi Vapiano,

Congratulations on your success !

I'm in a similar boat at the moment; I'm trying to resolve a transmission 2-1 downshift jerkiness + 4F8F fault code. My current mechanic recommends a full transmission replacement. Schpenxel made me aware of your thread and I want to try this route. I just need to verify parts before ordering.

I've been trying to msg klaus on thectsc but haven't gotten a response yet. Is there any chance you can help me get in touch?

I have a 2004 525i BMW Automatic and am trying to figure out which solenoid kit to buy from the below list. I'm having my mechanic hopefully obtain the trans serial #, main parts list, and trans type (as stamped on the trans housing) for me.

1. Solenoid Kit - 6HP19/26/32 M-shift
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...d=37&parent=45

2. Solenoid Kit - 6H19/26/32 M-shift
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...d=36&parent=45

3. Solenoid Kit - 6HP19/26/32 E-shift
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...d=35&parent=45


I'm having trouble getting a response from Klaus, what's his normal response time? Can you help me get in touch?

Which of the above kit should I be using?

Thanks,
Mark
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  #531  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:46 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by peachykonan View Post
Hi Vapiano,

Congratulations on your success !

I'm in a similar boat at the moment; I'm trying to resolve a transmission 2-1 downshift jerkiness + 4F8F fault code. My current mechanic recommends a full transmission replacement. Schpenxel made me aware of your thread and I want to try this route. I just need to verify parts before ordering.

I've been trying to msg klaus on thectsc but haven't gotten a response yet. Is there any chance you can help me get in touch?

I have a 2004 525i BMW Automatic and am trying to figure out which solenoid kit to buy from the below list. I'm having my mechanic hopefully obtain the trans serial #, main parts list, and trans type (as stamped on the trans housing) for me.

1. Solenoid Kit - 6HP19/26/32 M-shift
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...d=37&parent=45

2. Solenoid Kit - 6H19/26/32 M-shift
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...d=36&parent=45

3. Solenoid Kit - 6HP19/26/32 E-shift
http://www.thectsc.com/index.php?p=p...d=35&parent=45


I'm having trouble getting a response from Klaus, what's his normal response time? Can you help me get in touch?

Which of the above kit should I be using?

Thanks,
Mark
He usually responds in a day or two--He seems to do a lot of email all at once as opposed to a little all the time. How long has it been? may try sending him another email if it's been more than a day

edit: should be one of the first two, but will need serial # to confirm

Last edited by schpenxel; 03-06-2013 at 03:32 PM.
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  #532  
Old 03-06-2013, 02:56 PM
peachykonan peachykonan is offline
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Thanks Schpenxel - my mechanic promised me a photo of the serial / main parts list / etc stamped into the transmission housing tonight.
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  #533  
Old 03-06-2013, 03:30 PM
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Mark,

You are going to need the parts list off the transmission; this will tell you which kit you need. Is your tranny going into the safe mode as well? The code I had was 4F85. I just sent Klaus an email about my results and informed him to ping you. Hopefully he will get back to you very shortly.

Order of Numbers on Driver's Side (LHD) of Tranny:

Serial No. - for identification.
STU No. - this one gives you the parts list.
Model No. - this one determines which tranny type you have.
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Last edited by Vapiano; 03-06-2013 at 03:48 PM.
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  #534  
Old 03-06-2013, 03:39 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by peachykonan View Post
Thanks Schpenxel - my mechanic promised me a photo of the serial / main parts list / etc stamped into the transmission housing tonight.
Good deal!
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  #535  
Old 03-06-2013, 04:08 PM
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Good deal!
Klaus may want to give you a finder's fee! I have a feeling there will be a mass exodus of solenoids flying off the shelves soon!
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  #536  
Old 03-06-2013, 04:10 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Originally Posted by Vapiano View Post
Klaus may want to give you a finder's fee! I have a feeling there will be a mass exodus of solenoids flying off the shelves soon!
I almost said as much in my reply message but then forgot to, haha. Great minds think alike!
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  #537  
Old 03-06-2013, 04:37 PM
peachykonan peachykonan is offline
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2004 525i 2-1 downshift jerk 4F8F

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapiano View Post
Mark,

You are going to need the parts list off the transmission; this will tell you which kit you need. Is your tranny going into the safe mode as well? The code I had was 4F85. I just sent Klaus an email about my results and informed him to ping you. Hopefully he will get back to you very shortly.

Order of Numbers on Driver's Side (LHD) of Tranny:

Serial No. - for identification.
STU No. - this one gives you the parts list.
Model No. - this one determines which tranny type you have.
I received a tranny safe mode (gear symbol on dash) error 4F8F when I was downshifting from a higher gear down to the lowest while experimenting with the steptronic to see if I can avoid the 2-1 downshift jerkiness. I've stopped using steptronic and the error no longer occurs (OK for both DS and normal). However, this led to my mechanic recommending a full transmission replacement.

I am truly hoping that this works and that I picked the right mechanic. Since this is a requested service, there are no guarantees and that I need to provide the parts. He's not responsible if the parts are incorrect. I had to explicitly ask him for the transmission serial # and parts list number (which he is getting now). He did assure me that he has done this service before however.

I just msged BMW customer relations just in case after seeing Jay25's update in this thread.

Thank you Vapaino + Schpenxel, hoping to get the parts ordered tonight!

Last edited by peachykonan; 03-06-2013 at 04:51 PM.
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  #538  
Old 03-06-2013, 07:02 PM
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error 4F8F when I was downshifting from a higher gear down to the lowest while experimenting with the steptronic
This is very interesting; my car would go into the limp mode when downshifting in the auto mode during medium acceleration to force a downshift. The code rendered was 4F85. Your car does the same thing using the steptronic to downshift and your code was 4F8F. I have also noticed that the fluctuations in the DS mode happen between 50-60 mph; basically 20 mph higher than when in the auto mode. There is definitely a correlation between the issues that affects the tranny in both the auto and steptronic modes. It would be nice to know if it's the solenoids, sealing sleeve or mech adapter individually or a combination of each.

Edit: now that I think of it; my car only went into the limp mode during downshifts, never upshifts.

More important, it seems like you may have some doubts about the mechanic you have selected. If there is a strong sense of ambiguity; this maybe a red flag. In the end, they get paid regardless of the outcome. Especially in this situation, when you are going off of information you have found on a forum as opposed to the omnipotent one's recommendations to replace the tranny. I believe based on the report you posted, the solenoids, sealing sleeve and mech adapter will take care of these issues. I don't want to see you become a cash cow for this shop. I am not saying this will happen; but be vigilant.

I have a 5 yr/100,000 mile B2B warranty and the dealer wanted to replace the tranny, warranty company wanted proof it needed to be replaced. They couldn't provide absolute proof, so they said no to replacing it. I took it to a transmission shop, same thing. I took it to an indy shop and they couldn't read the code, so the warranty company wouldn't authorize the fix. After two months and $300 out of pocket for diagnostic fees; I got fed up and decided to do it myself based on schpenxel's video and results. I am so glad I took that plunge.
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Last edited by Vapiano; 03-06-2013 at 07:25 PM.
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  #539  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:02 PM
schpenxel schpenxel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapiano View Post

Edit: now that I think of it; my car only went into the limp mode during downshifts, never upshifts.

More important, it seems like you may have some doubts about the mechanic you have selected. If there is a strong sense of ambiguity; this maybe a red flag. In the end, they get paid regardless of the outcome. Especially in this situation, when you are going off of information you have found on a forum as opposed to the omnipotent one's recommendations to replace the tranny. I believe based on the report you posted, the solenoids, sealing sleeve and mech adapter will take care of these issues. I don't want to see you become a cash cow for this shop. I am not saying this will happen; but be vigilant.

I have a 5 yr/100,000 mile B2B warranty and the dealer wanted to replace the tranny, warranty company wanted proof it needed to be replaced. They couldn't provide absolute proof, so they said no to replacing it. I took it to a transmission shop, same thing. I took it to an indy shop and they couldn't read the code, so the warranty company wouldn't authorize the fix. After two months and $300 out of pocket for diagnostic fees; I got fed up and decided to do it myself based on schpenxel's video and results. I am so glad I took that plunge.
Mine did the same. Not sure about which code it threw, but I remember stepping on the gas as I was about to merge into traffic getting onto the interstate and that being when I saw the transmission warning for the first time. From then on I would see the transmission warning anytime it downshifted if I was accelerating hard through that particular gear change. I eventually figured out changing gears manually it was a particular gear change that caused issues. I can't remember if it was 6 to 5 or 5 to 4 anymore--I'm sure I posted it in the thread at some point though

Regardless, obviously I don't have that problem any more

Last edited by schpenxel; 03-06-2013 at 08:03 PM.
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  #540  
Old 03-06-2013, 08:10 PM
peachykonan peachykonan is offline
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I think my current mechanic is the best I've had so far. I've been to three shops with ultra-high recommendations on yelp cross-referenced against bimmershops.com, but actual experience was not so good.

#1:Never actually checked transmission fluids or seals and just said mechatronics need to be replaced. After some back and forth, eventually told me that he has no experience with transmissions.
#2: Told me I had the latest transmission software and found a completely separate issue to charge me with.
#3: I contacted HealthServices but he warned me that he doesn't have a lot of experience with the tool used to reset adaptations. If this wasn't the case I'd use him ASAP.
#4: Tim found that the transmission software was dated E060-07-03-525 whereas the newest one is E060-12-11-500, a difference of 8 years. He's updated it for me and also checked fluids and detected a minor sealing sleeve leak (no drip). Sent me the autologic diagnostic report (upon my request). I sent him your solenoid replacement instructions and he replied that they don't differ from the official BMW steps for a trans flush except for 7 and 8 (which involves the solenoids).

If anyone knows of another reliable mechanic out in Los Angeles, please tell me! I've spent a lot just trying to find Tim.

Last edited by peachykonan; 03-06-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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  #541  
Old 03-07-2013, 04:09 AM
kiwi_chris kiwi_chris is offline
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Is it not enough simply to give your VIN number to the supplier, so they can match the solenoids for you?

How much of a job is it to actually inspect the transmission casing for the stamped-on serial numbers?


Update: Actually, I think in my case (an '04 535D) it can only be the GA6HP26Z unit, according to realOEM ( http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...55&hg=24&fg=15 ), so no need for me to climb around under the car, thankfully...

Last edited by kiwi_chris; 03-07-2013 at 01:13 PM.
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  #542  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:02 PM
kiwi_chris kiwi_chris is offline
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Originally Posted by Vapiano View Post
Yep, that's it! Swapping out the solenoids, mech adapter and sealing sleeves seems to fix these issues. Has your tranny ever gone into the limp mode as well?

Bellissima Italia! I got married in Positano three years ago! I will be heading back to Italia some time in August. I can't wait.

Nope, fortunately never experienced limp mode. Hope it's not just a matter of time.

I'm based in Genova. It's nowhere near as exotic as places like Positano or Florence or Portofino or Milan etc... wouldn't really recommend a visit here! And boy are the city streets a tight fit for my big car!

Last edited by kiwi_chris; 03-07-2013 at 01:17 PM.
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  #543  
Old 03-07-2013, 01:47 PM
peachykonan peachykonan is offline
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Originally Posted by kiwi_chris View Post
Is it not enough simply to give your VIN number to the supplier, so they can match the solenoids for you?

How much of a job is it to actually inspect the transmission casing for the stamped-on serial numbers?


Update: Actually, I think in my case (an '04 535D) it can only be the GA6HP26Z unit, according to realOEM ( http://www.realoem.com/bmw/partgrp.d...55&hg=24&fg=15 ), so no need for me to climb around under the car, thankfully...
Both Klaus and Tim got back to me, parts have been ordered and shipped. I'll update with results soon!
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  #544  
Old 03-08-2013, 07:21 AM
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Both Klaus and Tim got back to me, parts have been ordered and shipped. I'll update with results soon!
Sweet! Looking forward to the follow up. I will be changing the tranny pan and oil today. I wanted to make sure that everything went well before moving forward. I might as well change the diff fluid while I am at it.
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  #545  
Old 03-08-2013, 11:04 AM
kiwi_chris kiwi_chris is offline
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One thing I've been curious about guys, is how do you know that the car is swapping between 5th and 6th gear, rather than, say, 4th and 5th? Is there something in the hidden menu that I'm missing that will display the current selected gear whilst in Drive mode?...
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  #546  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:37 PM
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Nope, fortunately never experienced limp mode. Hope it's not just a matter of time.

I'm based in Genova. It's nowhere near as exotic as places like Positano or Florence or Portofino or Milan etc... wouldn't really recommend a visit here! And boy are the city streets a tight fit for my big car!
LOL! The roads in Italia are extremely tight! Hard to believe how small sometimes, bus drivers are super crazy! The Autostrade is amazing; we rented an Audi A3 and drove from Milan to Certaldo to Rome to Bologna to Sorrento to Positano to the Amalfi Coast, back to Bologna, Rome and Milan! All in two weeks; I had a blast. You must really love the Autostrade!
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  #547  
Old 03-08-2013, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by kiwi_chris View Post
One thing I've been curious about guys, is how do you know that the car is swapping between 5th and 6th gear, rather than, say, 4th and 5th? Is there something in the hidden menu that I'm missing that will display the current selected gear whilst in Drive mode?...
When the car is fluctuating between gears, accelerate and count the gear shifts. One shift up only, 5th to 6th, two shifts up; 4th to 5th.

Update on the tranny pan and oil change; I drained and added 6 liters of new fluid today. The tranny shifts even smoother! I didn't get around to the diff oil change and will do that this weekend. I did notice the oil pressure sensor was leaking and changed that out as well. This has been a great week! Time for a road trip!
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  #548  
Old 03-10-2013, 12:25 PM
kiwi_chris kiwi_chris is offline
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Yup, the Autostrada is pretty sweet. Nice to happily cruise at 95mph for hours on end! Costly though.

Quick question: should the rev fluctuations completely stop if driving in Manual mode? I hadn't really even thought about testing this before, but on a quick drive this afternoon (busy city streets, so hard to measure) the rev needle seemed steady, but I thought I MIGHT have noticed some mild fluttering in M3 cruising at 35mph or so?... Or should this totally not be the case and I'm trying to hard to find an issue with it...
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  #549  
Old 03-10-2013, 02:58 PM
superdavebmw superdavebmw is offline
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Mein Auto: 89 BMW 325ix
Valvetronic repair

I'm new to this forum and came across this thread upon researching an unrelated 745 trans issue. I'm a BMW master tech in Detroit, and had a very similar issue to what you guys are describing. I believe this 745 had a very intermittent misfire on cylinder 3. Upon test driving it, I noticed that it had a bad shudder under light load, i think around 45 MPH. It turned out to not be a trans issue at all, it felt like a bad torque converter or tcc solenoid. It was caused by worn valvetronic levers. I replaced the levers and the eccentric shaft on bank one and it fixed the shudder. There is a test plan in DIS for the valvetronic, it failed the test plan. Just something to take into consideration as a possibility. It may not be a transmission issue even if it feels like it is. Cheers!

Last edited by superdavebmw; 03-10-2013 at 03:00 PM. Reason: misspell
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  #550  
Old 03-10-2013, 10:07 PM
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Vapiano Vapiano is offline
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Location: Maryland
 
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Mein Auto: Dinan E60 M5 & 2014 550ix
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiwi_chris View Post
Yup, the Autostrada is pretty sweet. Nice to happily cruise at 95mph for hours on end! Costly though.

Quick question: should the rev fluctuations completely stop if driving in Manual mode? I hadn't really even thought about testing this before, but on a quick drive this afternoon (busy city streets, so hard to measure) the rev needle seemed steady, but I thought I MIGHT have noticed some mild fluttering in M3 cruising at 35mph or so?... Or should this totally not be the case and I'm trying to hard to find an issue with it...
Fluctuations happen in manual mode as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by superdavebmw View Post
I'm new to this forum and came across this thread upon researching an unrelated 745 trans issue. I'm a BMW master tech in Detroit, and had a very similar issue to what you guys are describing. I believe this 745 had a very intermittent misfire on cylinder 3. Upon test driving it, I noticed that it had a bad shudder under light load, i think around 45 MPH. It turned out to not be a trans issue at all, it felt like a bad torque converter or tcc solenoid. It was caused by worn valvetronic levers. I replaced the levers and the eccentric shaft on bank one and it fixed the shudder. There is a test plan in DIS for the valvetronic, it failed the test plan. Just something to take into consideration as a possibility. It may not be a transmission issue even if it feels like it is. Cheers!
Hey Dave,


Thanks for your input. Can you please elaborate on the shudder that was experienced and how did you determine to run the test plan for the valvetronic levers? Did the valvetronic lever issue show up under a normal code scan to inform you to run the test? If so, what is that code? It would be interesting to see if anyone else is getting this same code.

Also, did this 745i ever go into the limp mode at anytime or have a delay in moving when reverse was selected? The fluctuations most are having seem to happen between a 10 mph range (30-40 mph or 50-60 mph). It feels like power is being turned off and on very quickly. When the dealer checked my car for codes initially, it had a misfire in banks 1 & 3 to go along with the tranny codes. I changed out all plugs and the misfiring ceased, but the tranny issues were still present.

At this point, schpenxel and myself have swapped out the solenoids, mech adapter and sealing sleeve and this has taken care of our tranny issues noted. Hopefully, others will chime in on their experiences as well. This will go a long way in determining and understanding how many sources could be causing the problem.
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