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BMW Diesel Owners / Enthusiasts
Do you own a diesel powered BMW? Maybe a 335d or a BMW x35d? Come and talk about what makes your car great!

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  #26  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:12 AM
d geek d geek is offline
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Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
....Diesel #1 is generally used during winter months due the lower temperature at which it solidifies.
my turn to correct you
You never use straight D1 in a diesel engine. It is mixed with D2 in the winter time- it does not replace D2.
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  #27  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:14 AM
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Gas Buddy, great website! http://www.miamigasprices.com/index....Sunrise,Weston

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  #28  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:17 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is online now
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Originally Posted by d geek View Post
my turn to correct you
You never use straight D1 in a diesel engine. It is mixed with D2 in the winter time- it does not replace D2.
My bad. I neglected to say mixed or blended. Used implies 100% utilization.
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  #29  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:19 AM
d geek d geek is offline
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Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
D1 is definitely not Kerosene. Close to it, but not the same. Here is one site that I found that gives some explanation of D1 versus D2 and Kerosene: http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/FAQ/diesel_fuel.htm Go about 1/2 down the page in the Q&A section. Jet A is Kerosene that has been certified to a particular engineering specification. See http://www.csgnetwork.com/jetfuel.html for more information. If you are in a cold area with a load of Diesel #2 in your tank, you can add Kerosene to make the fuel resistant to solidification until you can fill with Diesel #1.

OK. I found a link that says D1 is synonomous with Kerosene. What do you want to argue about now

http://www.spragueenergy.com/documen...el_number1.pdf
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  #30  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by d geek View Post
my turn to correct you
You never use straight D1 in a diesel engine. It is mixed with D2 in the winter time- it does not replace D2.

d-geek. I think this may spark some debate. According to at least one website I was reading, they don't even offer #2 diesel after October in some of the colder regions.

I recall as a Mariner we had to use JP-5 (Jet Fuel) and add some lube oil to make up for the lubricity when we went too far North. There was no #2 Diesel available up North for the military installations. We were running CAT 3512's. Engine room was plenty warm, problem was the cold storage tanks in the hull. Saltwater can actually get below 32 deg F and still be liquid. But I think the problem was land transport with air temps well below Zero. Brrrr!

Why I'm happy here in So. Fla.
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  #31  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:36 AM
d geek d geek is offline
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Originally Posted by Flyingman View Post
d-geek. I think this may spark some debate. According to at least one website I was reading, they don't even offer #2 diesel after October in some of the colder regions.

I recall as a Mariner we had to use JP-5 (Jet Fuel) and add some lube oil to make up for the lubricity when we went too far North. There was no #2 Diesel available up North for the military installations. We were running CAT 3512's. Engine room was plenty warm, problem was the cold storage tanks in the hull. Saltwater can actually get below 32 deg F and still be liquid. But I think the problem was land transport with air temps well below Zero. Brrrr!

Why I'm happy here in So. Fla.
When I was in the military back in the '80's we added 10% gasoline to keep our diesels running in Germany during the coldest months, and ATF or marvel mystery oil for lubricity. I wouldn't think about doing that in a modern deisel . How long ago were you at sea?

I've been driving diesels in Michigan since 2001. We use winterized D2 from mid-Oct to end of Mar. We do not use straight D1.
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  #32  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
When I was in the military back in the '80's we added 10% gasoline to keep our diesels running in Germany during the coldest months, and ATF or marvel mystery oil for lubricity. I wouldn't think about doing that in a modern deisel . How long ago were you at sea?

I've been driving diesels in Michigan since 2001. We use winterized D2 from mid-Oct to end of Mar. We do not use straight D1.
Hmmm, let's see, I graduated in 1981, so was at sea from 81 to about 86, then I worked shoreside for another 7 years until 93. Since 93 I've been pretty much always in the tropics.

We should be able to provide some definitive position on what diesel fuel should be used and when.
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  #33  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:43 AM
tcolberg tcolberg is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
lotsa fuel pricing info available here:
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/oog/info/gdu/gasdiesel.asp

I can't stress this enough: There is a huge variance in diesel fuel quality in N America. The best thing to do is to find a local source of high quality diesel in your area and only use that in your 335d/X5d. If this means driving out of your way to fuel up, then so be it. pogopop77 has posted a listing of premium diesel stations on this forum. hopefully he will check in here.

Most cases the only way to determine your diesel quality is to talk to the distributor your local station uses. Here are the two factors I believe most important for a high performance diesel engine.
Cetane of minimum 47. The diesel I have access to is minimum 50 cetane.
HFRR wear scar of 460 micron maximum. The ASTM spec for US diesel has a maximum wear scar of 520 microns. So you may need to use an additive to meet the tighter spec. I use 3-5% biodiesel to ensure this.
How the hell do you talk to your gas station about the specifications about their fuel supply? I'm pretty sure if I went up to the cashier's window and asked about fuel quality or cetane levels I would get blank stares.
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  #34  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:48 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post

OK. I found a link that says D1 is synonomous with Kerosene. What do you want to argue about now

http://www.spragueenergy.com/documen...el_number1.pdf
Well, in the composition part of the data sheet, notice the different Chemical Abstract Service Numbers for Hydrodesulurized Kerosene (64742-81-0 with a variable quantity of 0 to 100%), Hydrotreated Distillate (64742-47-8 with a variable quantity of 0 to 100%), and Kerosene (8008-20-6 with a variable quantity of 0 to 100%). All three products fall within a class of petroleum distillates that covers a range of product names (and CAS #s). Are they chemically the same? I tend to doubt it; otherwise they would have the same CAS Number. Plus they have cut the blend of Kerosenes and Distillate with Napthalene, which was probably added to raise the Cetane number, but that is speculation on my part.

So, back to the original question - is D1 the same as Kerosene? I tend to doubt it, but Arctic_Cat could weigh in on the subject from a more informed perspective (Chemical Engineer).
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  #35  
Old 10-06-2009, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tcolberg View Post
How the hell do you talk to your gas station about the specifications about their fuel supply? I'm pretty sure if I went up to the cashier's window and asked about fuel quality or cetane levels I would get blank stares.
What language would you speak to them in, anyway!
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  #36  
Old 10-06-2009, 12:07 PM
d geek d geek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcolberg View Post
How the hell do you talk to your gas station about the specifications about their fuel supply? I'm pretty sure if I went up to the cashier's window and asked about fuel quality or cetane levels I would get blank stares.
true statement. you need to get ahold of the station owner/manager, who can either provide the distributor contact or get the fuel info for you themselves.
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  #37  
Old 10-06-2009, 12:07 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcolberg View Post
How the hell do you talk to your gas station about the specifications about their fuel supply? I'm pretty sure if I went up to the cashier's window and asked about fuel quality or cetane levels I would get blank stares.
They might even call the police, thinking a robbery was in progress.
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  #38  
Old 10-06-2009, 12:13 PM
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FAQ


FUELS


Gasoline
Diesel
Benefits & Recommendations
FAQ


Heating Oils
Kerosene
Other Fuels
Commercial Fuel Services



LUBRICANTS


CONVENIENCE STORES & MARTS


LUBRICATION SERVICES


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TRAVEL SERVICES



What is diesel fuel?
Diesel fuel is principally a blend of petroleum-derived compounds called middle distillates (heavier than gasoline but lighter than lube oil) and may or may not contain additional additives. Other middle distillates include kerosene and No. 2 Heating Oil. Diesel fuel is designed to operate in a diesel engine where it is injected into the compressed, high-temperature air in the combustion chamber and ignites spontaneously. This differs from gasoline, which is ignited in a gasoline engine by the spark plugs.

What specification requirements of diesel fuel should concern me and why?
Sulfur content, Cetane number (ignition quality), cleanliness, lubricity, low-temperature operability and stability are the diesel fuel requirements of principal concern to you.

With the introduction of the 2007 model year, diesel powered vehicles have to meet stringent emissions limits. The equipment used by vehicles to meet those standards depend upon a fuel with very low sulfur content, 15 parts per million (ppm) or less, referred to as Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD). Use of LSD, with sulfur content that can be as high as 500 ppm, can, in a single tank full, permanently damage the emission control equipment of the new vehicles. We should note that ULSD is suitable for all diesel engines including those manufactured before 2007. All diesel dispensers have a decal on them indicated the type of diesel fuel being dispensed. Look for the ULSD decal for 2007 model vehicles and newer.

The cetane number is a measure of the ease with which the fuel is ignited in your engine. It is most significant in relation to low-temperature startability, warm-up and smooth, even combustion. The cetane number of the fuel should meet your engine manufacturer's minimum recommendation for the type of service. A cetane number higher than required does not materially improve engine efficiency or operation. Most engine manufacturers recommend diesel fuels with a cetane number of at least 40. Diesel fuels sold by reputable marketers meet or exceed this requirement.

Cleanliness refers to the absence of water and particulate contamination. This characteristic is important because dirt and water can plug fuel filters in your engine and cause severe damage to your fuel injection system because of the close tolerances within fuel pumps and injectors. All diesel engine manufacturers equip their engines with fuel filters to protect the fuel delivery system. You should replace these filters according to the manufacturer's recommendations. Some manufacturers also provide filters with drain valves and recommend periodic draining of any water that may accumulate from condensation and careless handling in storage or vehicle tanks.

Lubricity is the characteristic that ensures protection against fuel pump and injector wear. Since 2005 the use of lubricity additives has become common and all Exxon diesel fuels intended for over the road use contain them.

Low-temperature operability is the ability of the fuel to flow and to be pumped through diesel fuel system filters without plugging at low temperatures. Filter plugging due to the presence of wax crystals in the fuel can be estimated by measuring the cloud point temperature or other low temperature fluidity and filterability tests.

Stability is the term used to describe a fuel's resistance to the formation of gums and insoluble oxidation products. Fuels with poor oxidation stability contain insoluble particles that can plug fuel filters. This may lead to decreased engine performance or engine stalling from fuel starvation.

Is all diesel fuel sold at gas stations and truck stops in the U.s. now ULSD?
No. At present the EPA requires only 80% of the highway diesel fuel manufactured in the U.S. to be ULSD. Consumers may still find some LSD at services stations and truck stops until December 1, 2010 when EPA regulations will require all highway diesel fuel to be ULSD.

Does Exxon have ULSD available at all of its service stations?
No. At most Exxon retail locations where diesel fuel is sold, the product will be ULSD. However, some Exxon locations will still be selling LSD, particularly over the next several months as we make the transition from LSD to ULSD.

How will I know whether a pump is dispensing ULSD or the higher sulfur LSD fuel?
Federal regulations require all diesel fuel pumps to have labels specifying the type of fuel dispensed (except in California where all diesel fuel must be ULSD). Look for this decal.




What vehicles require ULSD?
Vehicles with diesel engines manufactured in the 2007 model year or later require the use of ULSD for proper operation. Using LSD or other improper fuel may reduce the efficiency and durability of engines, permanently damage advanced emissions control systems, reduce fuel economy and possibly prevent the vehicles from running at all. Additionally, manufacturer warranties are likely to be voided by improper fuel use.

How can I determine if my vehicle requires ULSD?
Instrument panel and fuel inlet/fill cap labeling is being mandated for 2007 and newer model year engines and vehicles that require ULSD fuel. Also, you can check yor owner's manual for vehicle fuel requirements.

Can I use ULSD in diesel engines manufactured before the 2007 model year?
Yes. ULSD is acceptable for use in all diesel engines.

I have heard that removing the sulfur from diesel can cause problems in older engines. Is ULSD going to harm the engine in my pre-2007 diesel vehicle?
Some of the sulfur compounds naturally occurring in diesel fuel provide some wear protection or lubricity. To compensate for the sulfur removal in ULSD Exxon branded diesel fuel is treated with additives to improve lubricity. Customers can be confident in choosing exxon because our branded ULSD fuel meets ASTM D 975 diesel fuel specifications, which provide standards for lubricity, cetane number and other performance characteristics.

How will ULSD fuel affect air quality?
ULSD fuel enables the use fo cleaner technology diesel engines and vehicles with advanced emissions control devices. Even when used in older diesel engines ULSD is believed to result in lower vehicle emissions.

May I continue to blend No. 1 diesel with my diesel fuel to improve cold weather performance?
Only ultra low sulfur No. 1 diesel (No. 1 diesel with no more than 15 ppm sulfur) may be blended with ULSD fuel to improve cold weather performance. Kerosene should never be used to improve the low temperature operability of ULSD; its sulfur level is too high. In cold weather climates Exxon branded diesel fuels are blended with an additives in winter months to improve low temperature performance. This should eliminate the need for supplemental ULSD No. 1 blending in most circumstances.

Will ULSD affect the fuel economy of existing diesel cars, trucks and non-road engines and equipment?
Theoretically, fuel economy may be reduced slightly (about 1%) because the refining process that removes sulfur also can reduce the energy content of the fuel.

Is there a place I can go to get additional industry information on ULSD?
Yes. For additional industry information on ULSD you can go to the Clean Diesel Fuel Alliance's web site (www.clean-diesel.org).

How do I know which grade to use?
Most engines are designed to operate on ASTM No. 2-D grade, but some diesel engines in stop-and-go service require No. 1-D diesel fuels in order to perform satisfactorily. Follow the recommendations of the engine manufacturer and a reputable fuel supplier who recognize that some fuels may have special or additive-derived quality features. Be sure to use ULSD in 2007 model vehicles and newer.

What are some fuel-handling causes of poor diesel engine performance?
Contamination of fuel by water and dirt entering the fuel as a result of careless fuel handling may cause poor diesel engine performance. Extreme care must be exercised. Fuel-tank caps, dispensing nozzles and hoses should be kept clean to eliminate potential sources of contamination. Regularly removing water from storage tanks, vehicle fuel tanks, and filter bowls is important. Dry storage systems will reduce fuel emulsion problems, injection system corrosion and microbial growth.

Why do diesel engines smoke?
Diesel engine smoke is caused by incomplete combustion. White smoke is caused by tiny droplets of unburned fuel resulting from engine misfiring at low temperature. This smoke should disappear as the engine warms up. Black smoke could be caused by a faulty injector, insufficient air and overloading and/or over-fueling the engine. Blue-gray smoke is the result of burning lubricating oil and is an indication the engine is in poor mechanical condition.

Why was the sulfur content of diesel fuel reduced?
Ultra Low sulfur diesel fuels (less than 15 ppm) are required by federal regulations for 2007 model year highway vehicles to ensure that these vehicles will meet emissions standards to improve the quality of the air we breathe. In California, other properties of vehicular diesel fuel are also controlled to help reduce smog.

Do Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel Fuels cause fuel system leaks?
When low sulfur diesel fuels were first introduced in some markets back in the 1990s, there was a rash of fuel injector O-ring failures causing fuel system leaks. The failures were limited to older vehicles and the problems have not recurred. The recent introduction of ULSD has not proven problematic.

How can I avoid having filter plugging problems?
Fuel filters can plug from a variety of causes. In the winter, small amounts of water or using fuel with inadequate low-temperature fluidity can cause filter plugging. At other times, common dirt and fuel distribution debris can cause filter plugging. And, if a fuel storage facility is not properly maintained, bacteria and algae can grow in the fuel and cause filter problems. With the exception of the fuel with inadequate low-temperature fluidity, all of these problems can normally be avoided by keeping the fuel storage system clean and dry. You should be sure to drain water accumulation frequently. That will obviously avoid icing problems in the Winter but will also minimize bacterial growth. Be sure to use dispenser filters when filling the vehicle tank.

How does water get into diesel fuel and what problems can it cause?
Water gets into diesel fuel storage and vehicle tanks in several ways – by condensation of humid air, during transportation from refineries to service stations, by leakage through faulty fill pipes or vents and by careless handling. Water can cause injector nozzle and pump corrosion, microorganism growth and fuel filter plugging with materials resulting from the corrosion or microbial growth. Both vehicle and storage tanks should be checked frequently for water and drained or pumped out as necessary. In extreme cases, biocides may be required to control microorganism growth. In cold northern winters, ice formation in fuels containing water creates severe fuel line and filter plugging problems. Regularly removing the water is the most effective means of preventing this problem.

What does the heat energy or BTU content of a diesel fuel mean?
The energy content of diesel fuel is defined by the amount of energy stored in one gallon. The higher the fuel's heat of combustion, the more power will be derived from each gallon of fuel consumed. Energy content is measured in British Thermal Units (BTU) per gallon and is related to the fuel's specific gravity and the temperature range at which it vaporizes. The BTU content per unit volume increases as the specific gravity increases. The BTU content of a unit volume (gallon or liter) of diesel fuel is higher than that of gasoline, and the BTU content of No. 2-D diesel fuel is generally higher than that of No.1-D diesel fuel. The BTU content of No. 2-D diesel fuel is typically about 130,000 BTU/Gal.

What factors affect power/fuel economy?
Engine design is the most important factor leading to power and fuel economy. However, fuels with a higher density like our Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel No. 2 will provide improved power and fuel economy compared to fuels with Diesel Fuel No. 1 blended into them.

What is low-temperature operability?
Low-temperature operability is a diesel fuel’s ability to perform at low temperatures. All petroleum distillate products contain waxy materials, which, at low temperatures, can crystallize and plug fuel filters. The cloud point of the fuel measures the first appearance of the waxes, although filter plugging will not typically occur until the ambient temperature is 5° to 10°F below the cloud point. There are several approaches, both operational and fuel-related, to ensure proper operability in cold weather.

Vehicle-related approaches include the use of fuel heaters, keeping the engine running, parking the vehicle in heated areas, etc. Each of these is designed to keep the fuel warm, above the point where waxing occurs. But each of these approaches has obvious drawbacks, as well.

The low-temperature operability of the fuel can be adjusted in several ways, as well. Blending a No. 2 fuel with No. 1 can lower its cloud point; this has traditionally been the most common approach to dealing with winter operability. But, the use of Diesel Fuel No. 1 reduces power and fuel economy, and often is more expensive, so minimizing the amount of No. 1 Fuel in the blend is an important consideration. Another approach to reduce the filter plugging incidence is to use wax-modifying additives. These additives can give operability benefits equivalent to No. 1 Fuel blending without the power and fuel economy losses. Use of wax-modifying additives is generally the approach for ULSD No. 2.

Note that, especially early in the winter season, water buildup in vehicle tanks, when it freezes, can also plug fuel filters or fuel lines. If you experience filter plugging problems when the ambient temperatures are between 10° and 30°F, the most likely cause is water, not the fuel itself.

What should I do in the winter to adjust for the cold temperatures?
We recommend that you purchase a diesel fuel that has been winterized for your area by mixing it with Diesel Fuel No. 1 or low-temperature fluidity improver additives. Non-winterized diesel fuel will not generally cause problems as long as temperatures are at or above 10°F. The addition of about 15% to 20% Diesel Fuel No. 1 to Diesel Fuel No. 2 will reduce the cloud point of the fuel by about 5°F.

We offer winterized product in a majority of markets that experience severe weather conditions. If temperatures fall well below norms for the local area or you will be driving much farther north, additional Diesel Fuel No. 1 blending is recommended.

Why shouldn’t I just use Diesel Fuel No. 1?
While Diesel Fuel No. 1 has an advantage in low temperature operability, there are some disadvantages, as well. The energy content of Diesel Fuel No. 1 is about 95% that of Diesel Fuel No. 2 and will provide a correspondingly lower fuel economy. Diesel Fuel No. 1 is also lower in viscosity and provides less lubrication for the fuel pump and fuel distributor.

What are the differences among diesel fuels, heating oils and kerosenes?
Diesel fuels, heating oils and kerosenes are all products distilled from crude oil. While they are similar, there are some critical specification and legal differences among the products that normally prohibits using them interchangeably. These differences come about because their respective applications differ; diesel fuels are used in internal combustion engines, heating oils in oil burners and kerosenes are used in lamps and non-vented heaters. In addition to these differences, the products are subject to different tax laws. A few of the differences are highlighted below.

Diesel fuels have cetane specifications to assess combustion properties in diesel engines. They are also exposed to outdoor temperatures and relatively fine filtration. The most common measure for low-temperature fluidity is the cloud point. Neither heating oils nor kerosines require cetane number or cloud point specs. In the United States, heating oils and kerosenes are not taxed as are over-the-road diesel fuels. To distinguish them, with a few exceptions, the IRS requires that they be dyed dark red.

How long can I store diesel fuel?
If you keep it clean, cool and dry, diesel fuel can be stored 6 months to 1 year without significant quality degradation. Storage for longer periods can be accomplished through use of periodic filtrations and addition of fuel stabilizers and biocides.

What effect does blending used lubricating oil into diesel fuel have on engine performance and fuel quality?
This practice is not recommended. It may adversely affect fuel quality features and could lead to fuel system and piston deposits, increased exhaust emissions and fuel-filter plugging. This practice may also result in the diesel fuel being out of compliance with state or federal regulations or other specifications.

Does diesel fuel color affect performance?
No. There is no relationship between natural diesel fuel color and such desirable diesel fuel qualities as heat content, viscosity, cloud point, cetane number or distillation range. Diesel fuel color varies with the crude source, refinery methods and the use of dyes. However, if the fuel color darkens appreciably during storage, this could indicate oxidation and/or contamination from dirt, water, or other sources, which can cause operational problems.

What is flash point?
The flash point of a fuel is the temperature at which vapors formed above the surface of the liquid fuel will ignite when exposed to an open flame under prescribed laboratory test conditions. Flash point has a negligible effect on engine performance but can be a significant fire hazard in the handling and storage of fuel. A low flash point temperature may indicate contamination of the diesel fuel with gasoline or other volatile materials such as alcohols.

What is diesel fuel lubricity?
Diesel fuel lubricity is a measure of diesel fuel's ability to reduce wear on contacting metal surfaces found in fuel pumps and injectors. In the case of diesel engines, fuel pumps and fuel injectors are lubricated by the fuel, so lubricity is a measure of a diesel fuel's ability to prevent wear in these parts.
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  #39  
Old 10-06-2009, 12:18 PM
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RoBMWED RoBMWED is offline
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Hey, flyingman !

Let's tighten this up and put it in the Diesel wiki !

Whaddaya think ?

Or maybe a tatoo !
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  #40  
Old 10-06-2009, 12:30 PM
d geek d geek is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingman View Post
...Lubricity is the characteristic that ensures protection against fuel pump and injector wear. Since 2005 the use of lubricity additives has become common and all Exxon diesel fuels intended for over the road use contain them. ...

...Customers can be confident in choosing exxon because our branded ULSD fuel meets ASTM D 975 diesel fuel specifications, which provide standards for lubricity, cetane number and other performance characteristics....

What is diesel fuel lubricity?
Diesel fuel lubricity is a measure of diesel fuel's ability to reduce wear on contacting metal surfaces found in fuel pumps and injectors. In the case of diesel engines, fuel pumps and fuel injectors are lubricated by the fuel, so lubricity is a measure of a diesel fuel's ability to prevent wear in these parts.
Please note that in the US they are not required to meet the wear spec of the fuel that your BMW diesel was designed to use.

here's a Bosch presentation that was done before the fuel lubricity spec was finalized.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline...22003bosch.pdf
for whatever reason ASTM blew off Bosch and the Engine Manufacturers Association when they finalized the spec.
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  #41  
Old 10-06-2009, 12:47 PM
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RoBMWED RoBMWED is offline
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d geek - I'm really serious.

We need to put this source info into the bimmerfest Diesel wiki.

You guys got any ideas how to 1) condense these articles, 2) absolve copyright issues, 3) format the wiki ?

I suppose we could just take swatches from all of the posts for the time being ?!?
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  #42  
Old 10-06-2009, 12:52 PM
d geek d geek is offline
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I don't know how to make a wiki page, but would be glad to help out. I've collected many technical docs and articles over the years.
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  #43  
Old 10-06-2009, 01:21 PM
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RoBMWED RoBMWED is offline
Freude am Diesel Fahren !
Location: NW - finally home
 
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Excellent !

I don't know how to build a wiki either - but I know how I like to read them.

If you have any way of editing all of that material that you have collected into a document (or several) that would help the average BMW genius owner to better understand the facets of diesel fuel, engines, benefits, drawback, etc., that would be great.

Brief articles with references listed for expanded details should do the trick.

I think the only issue that might upset any-/everyone would be copyrights.

Let me know what you think. This might be a lot of fun ! We can PM this if you prefer.

I hope that anyone else interested in helping will get in touch with us !
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Old 10-06-2009, 01:52 PM
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Flyingman Flyingman is offline
hang up and drive!
Location: Miami
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
I don't know how to make a wiki page, but would be glad to help out. I've collected many technical docs and articles over the years.
I'm Wiki illiterate! I know what Wikipedia is!
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  #45  
Old 10-06-2009, 02:32 PM
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Chrisdridley Chrisdridley is offline
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Location: Chattanooga,TN
 
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Mein Auto: (2)335d, RS60 Spyder
$2.539 at a EXXON in Concord NC today.
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  #46  
Old 10-06-2009, 02:37 PM
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Grentz Grentz is offline
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Mein Auto: e46 M3, 335d
$2.58 - $2.59 around here in MN.
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  #47  
Old 10-06-2009, 03:40 PM
swartzentruber swartzentruber is offline
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Location: Chicago, IL
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyingman View Post
Gas prices still seem to be dropping, amazingly so. Today I saw Regular for around $2.29/gal. Premium was around $2.49 and Super was $2.59. Diesel, which had been about $0.10/gal more than regular, was now $2.59, same as super.

Now I know that should'nt be right, as we all know diesel is always cheaper to produce than gasoline, excluding taxes.
Just wanted to reply to your comment above about diesel prices, as a former Jetta TDI owner (and having a past history of owning a diesel, I still kind of watch the prices). What you are observing is completely normal for America due to seasonality effects, and is exactly what I observed while owning a diesel. Gasoline tends to cycle down pretty quickly in early fall, once the summer driving season ends, as summer road trips tend to drive peak gasoline demand. Meanwhile, diesel prices stay stable or even increase in early fall, because diesel is very similar to home heating oil, and fall is the peak time for fuel oil production (i.e. need to fill up all the home tanks for the winter), and diesel competes with fuel oil for refinery production. Based on my observation, diesel prices tended not to peak (or start falling) until early winter (once fuel oil demand is fulfilled), well after gasoline prices fell.

So long story short, expect to observe this every year.
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Old 10-06-2009, 03:53 PM
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Grentz Grentz is offline
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I have noticed the diesel prices are much more stable though. Earlier this year gas was spiking and diesel was constant.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:12 PM
swartzentruber swartzentruber is offline
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Originally Posted by Grentz View Post
I have noticed the diesel prices are much more stable though. Earlier this year gas was spiking and diesel was constant.
Yes, that is also very true based on my observations. Diesel demand in the US is mostly driven by semi-truck traffic, and that tends not to fluctuate nearly as much as passenger car driving. It does tend to trend long term based on the overall economy, and I do wonder if we will see diesel above premium again once the economy returns to normalcy.
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Old 10-06-2009, 04:54 PM
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02 330Ci 02 330Ci is offline
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A point I wanted to make about ULSD and its lubricity, I know it says it is good for all diesels but that is not really true, in older diesels they depend on the heavier sulfur for both power and lubrication. You would want an additive in every tank I believe it would benefit new engines too.
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