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  #1  
Old 09-12-2003, 05:58 PM
FlyingDutchMan FlyingDutchMan is offline
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Custom Rear Package Tray for Rear Seat Delete PICS

I built this custom rear package tray after seeing some of BioDans ideas. I did mine a little different. It consists of 4 removable parts. The front rail/lip. Used to keep stuff in its' place. The rear deck floor, 2 pieces so that it is easy to remove with the roll bar inplace. And lastly the a rear panel to divide the trunk from the passenger compartment. I used 1/4 plywood and strengthened it by screwing 2x .5 inch wood supports on the underside; then covered everthing in this gray carpet. (I couldn't find black) The shelve is strong enough to support a backpack or other misc. items, whoever it won't support a person. I diliberately used the lightes materials I could find at home depot. The whole thing can be removed in 5min, nothing is bolted in place. There are however tabs on the rear panel the hold the divider in place. I cut everything pretty tight, so it it pretty much a friction fit with the carpet covering all edges.
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Last edited by FlyingDutchMan; 09-12-2003 at 06:02 PM.
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  #2  
Old 09-12-2003, 06:05 PM
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SONET SONET is offline
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Looks great. Did you happen to weigh the materials you put in? I would guess about 10lbs. or so total... does this sound about right?

I know this is documented somewhere, but out of laziness - how much do the rear seats weigh?

--SONET
  #3  
Old 09-12-2003, 06:55 PM
FlyingDutchMan FlyingDutchMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SONET
Looks great. Did you happen to weigh the materials you put in? I would guess about 10lbs. or so total... does this sound about right?

I know this is documented somewhere, but out of laziness - how much do the rear seats weigh?

--SONET
Yeah the carpet probably weighs more than the wood. The rollbar was 58 pounds, with the reardeck add another 10 pounds. Subtract 48 for the seats I took out and I added 20 pounds back to the car. At least it is towards the rear.
  #4  
Old 09-13-2003, 12:19 AM
biodan biodan is offline
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Nice job. With the roll bar i can see the need for 2 pieces for the shelf. One note tho- with my bracing & 1/8" plywood that i used, my shelf will support my full weight (160)... which is less than my 4 track rubber/rims (SSR Comps & PSCs 4x42lbs).

Oh, the wgt of my plywood, bracing & carpet is also 10lbs.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDutchMan
I built this custom rear package tray after seeing some of BioDans ideas. I did mine a little different. It consists of 4 removable parts. The front rail/lip. Used to keep stuff in its' place. The rear deck floor, 2 pieces so that it is easy to remove with the roll bar inplace. And lastly the a rear panel to divide the trunk from the passenger compartment. I used 1/4 plywood and strengthened it by screwing 2x .5 inch wood supports on the underside; then covered everthing in this gray carpet. (I couldn't find black) The shelve is strong enough to support a backpack or other misc. items, whoever it won't support a person. I diliberately used the lightes materials I could find at home depot. The whole thing can be removed in 5min, nothing is bolted in place. There are however tabs on the rear panel the hold the divider in place. I cut everything pretty tight, so it it pretty much a friction fit with the carpet covering all edges.

Last edited by biodan; 09-13-2003 at 12:24 AM.
  #5  
Old 09-13-2003, 01:21 AM
M3guyCA M3guyCA is offline
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dude that pretty cool what you did.. But i was wondering how many lbs do the back seats weigh?
  #6  
Old 09-13-2003, 01:51 AM
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SteveMedina SteveMedina is offline
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Damn FDM....you work fast....jeez..

BioD......I've got an idea for the lower bench......will weigh approx 10 lbs....uses existing clips....to hold in place....

bought a bench seat without covering, cost was $125.......will use foam to level out..then recover to eliminate the seatbelt openings..

then with the rear seat back...will use divinicell or klegicell to make a seat back so to speak....divinicell with layer of either kevlar, polyester, and then cover with same covering as bench seat.....gonnna try and either use the existing seat back locks somehow....

FDM....with the bolts they supplied...were they long enough to go thru the floor bottom and fenderwell.....
  #7  
Old 09-13-2003, 01:54 AM
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SteveMedina SteveMedina is offline
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rear seats...weigh

12.5 bench seat
37.5 for fold down seats...total rear seat, right around 50...
  #8  
Old 09-13-2003, 09:33 AM
FlyingDutchMan FlyingDutchMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3guyCA
dude that pretty cool what you did.. But i was wondering how many lbs do the back seats weigh?
48 pounds is what people posted on here. Basically adding the rollbar is a wash if you take out the back seat.
  #9  
Old 09-13-2003, 09:42 AM
FlyingDutchMan FlyingDutchMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMedina
Damn FDM....you work fast....jeez.......
I have to, I only have a limited time to squeeze these projects in between Business Valuation and Theories and Models of Organization class.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMedina
FDM....with the bolts they supplied...were they long enough to go thru the floor bottom and fenderwell.....
I would get some longer bolts. It will make the project go easier. Make sure you have someone to help. An impact gun will save you alot of time too.The bolts supplied are barely long enough to start. Once you tighten them, the metal floor pan with flatten out as do the fender wells. Then swap out to the short bolts one at a time. There are enough nuts to double nut the whole thing. I used loctite anyway.

There is not slick one way to get the hoop on, it is going to take some trial and error puzzling.
If you have trouble I can tell you how we finally ended up getting everything together. The main problem is that there is very little room to get the kicker bars on once the hoop is up right.

BE SURE NOT TO JACK THE CAR WHEN YOUR DRILLING HOLES, OR YOU MAY TWIST THE CHASSIS AND THE ROLL BAR WILL HOLD IT THERE WHEN YOU SET IT BACK DOWN.

Probably didn't need to tell you that, but just a reminder.

FDM

PS: The reaction on people faces when the saw FDM harnessed up, rolling into the valet on Canon Dr. in Beverly Hills for dinner last night was money.

Last edited by FlyingDutchMan; 09-13-2003 at 09:48 AM.
  #10  
Old 09-13-2003, 09:49 AM
FlyingDutchMan FlyingDutchMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ___lk___
why dont u guys just use foam-core composites? WAY lighter than plywood.
WAR IK! That is a epic idea, or a honey comb type of material, where would I go to find that?

I am not sure how much weight it will save, most of the weight on what I did is the carpet.

Here goes the weekend...

FDM
  #11  
Old 09-13-2003, 10:14 AM
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___lk___ ___lk___ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDutchMan
I am not sure how much weight it will save,
it's just a lot easier to make weird/custom shapes, like what u guyz are doing...and freakishly lite weight.

try a boating/marine store..or just order the weaves and resins off the web and get the bulk core locally at home depot, etc. u need a hot-wire to cut the core.

lot easier than all that woodworking.
  #12  
Old 09-13-2003, 10:20 AM
biodan biodan is offline
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That foam is nasty stuff. Cover everything twice! i got a couple of aerosol drops on the stock belts...on there forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMedina
Damn FDM....you work fast....jeez..

BioD......I've got an idea for the lower bench......will weigh approx 10 lbs....uses existing clips....to hold in place....

bought a bench seat without covering, cost was $125.......will use foam to level out..then recover to eliminate the seatbelt openings..

then with the rear seat back...will use divinicell or klegicell to make a seat back so to speak....divinicell with layer of either kevlar, polyester, and then cover with same covering as bench seat.....gonnna try and either use the existing seat back locks somehow....

FDM....with the bolts they supplied...were they long enough to go thru the floor bottom and fenderwell.....
  #13  
Old 09-13-2003, 10:22 AM
biodan biodan is offline
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I got a quote from MC Gill for $1k for 2 panels of 22x53". There is a 2 part minimum and its a $500 min per part. thats why.

The composites i looked at (balsa honeycomb with fiberglass, carbon-fiber honeycomb w/ fiberglass) would cut the wgt by 2x or 3x. But starting at 10lbs, thats not a huge wgt savings.

As i posted below, i can take all 10lbs out for the track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ___lk___
why dont u guys just use foam-core composites? WAY lighter than plywood.

Last edited by biodan; 09-13-2003 at 12:02 PM.
  #14  
Old 09-13-2003, 10:26 AM
biodan biodan is offline
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This is what Shep recommended too. but some background might be useful. From the pre-manufactured panels, i calculated that it would halve the wgt, if carbon fiber maybe 1/3. But i can just take all the wood/carpet out at the track so losing 5-7 lbs is not as big deal. On the street, its completely insignificant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ___lk___
it's just a lot easier to make weird/custom shapes, like what u guyz are doing...and freakishly lite weight.

try a boating/marine store..or just order the weaves and resins off the web and get the bulk core locally at home depot, etc. u need a hot-wire to cut the core.

lot easier than all that woodworking.
  #15  
Old 09-13-2003, 11:07 AM
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SteveMedina SteveMedina is offline
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just found some 1/8th and 1/4in divinicell.....closed cell foam is what its called....

will lamintate, with poly/kevlar...jury still out....we'll see....but then going to cover in leather/leathersubstitute....we'll see that as well...

the kicker was, the side bolsters...didn't like how abrubtly they stopped...so talking to friend of mine...he says....we could trim the side bolster off the bench area and make it look complete....

im thinking...ya know...the bench seat isn't the money weight here, its the seat backs....how about we find an unupholstered bench seat....form it with fiberglass to make it flat (so to speak)...while keeping the side bolsters intact, that way it looks oem....

but is easy to remove, since its technically a modified back seat.
  #16  
Old 09-13-2003, 11:57 AM
biodan biodan is offline
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Maybe its just me, but the idea of doing lamination in my not-so-dust-free garage without good ventilation of those fumes is not appealing. I'd rather do woodworking with a mask than deal with organic solvent fumes that penetrate all amateur masks... did that when a kid w/ model cars/planes etc... and professionally as a molecular biologist in the early days when we did DNA manipulation & sequencing with all kinds of organic solvents (newer methods have obsolesced all this). There's a reason why organic chemists have an actuarially-proven shorter life-span, leukemias are common.

Wood dust is easily filtered tho...and since i don't smoke (which geometrically increases the negative odds), i'm not gonna get pneumonia or other respiratory problem equivalent to silicosis, asbestosis (really mesothelioma), or black lung disease (coal miners's risk goes way high if they smoke).

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMedina
just found some 1/8th and 1/4in divinicell.....closed cell foam is what its called....
will lamintate, with poly/kevlar...jury still out....we'll see....but then going to cover in leather/leathersubstitute....we'll see that as well...
Yes, the side bolsters are a problem. Why not just remove the side bolsters completely & cover them?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMedina
the kicker was, the side bolsters...didn't like how abrubtly they stopped...so talking to friend of mine...he says....we could trim the side bolster off the bench area and make it look complete....
Agreed, the bench seat with leather is about 12 lbs of the total 48 lb rear seat pkg. But i don't mind the plywood/brace carpet solution that i built. While it will take all my wgt, its not meant for people to sit on, in fact i've never heard my SSR Comps/PSCs complain about comfort :-)

Also, with your roll bar, could a human even sit on the bench?

For structural rigidity tho, removal of the back seats can be a negative if i don't have a rollbar or cage. Just looked for rear strut bars and the cheapest i found was the $120 one from AA. Do you think i could install that bar without messing up the rear alignment? Have to remove the shock tower bolts on each side. Probably would disassemble the bar, attach the brackets one at a time and then attach the bar. The bar does block some access to the trunk area tho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMedina
im thinking...ya know...the bench seat isn't the money weight here, its the seat backs....how about we find an unupholstered bench seat....form it with fiberglass to make it flat (so to speak)...while keeping the side bolsters intact, that way it looks oem....

but is easy to remove, since its technically a modified back seat.

Last edited by biodan; 09-13-2003 at 12:00 PM.
  #17  
Old 09-13-2003, 12:17 PM
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SteveMedina SteveMedina is offline
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You will not hurt alignment whatsoever....

camber and toe are adjusted on the bottom of the car....undoing the rear shock nuts will not hurt any of it....

Oh heck...I'm not gonna do the dirty work of laminating the stuff...hehe....have some buddies that do that type of work......
  #18  
Old 09-13-2003, 01:13 PM
FlyingDutchMan FlyingDutchMan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biodan
Maybe its just me, ... and professionally as a molecular biologist in the early days when we did DNA manipulation & sequencing with all kinds of organic solvents (newer methods have obsolesced all this).
Really, DNA manupulation...hmmmm..... does that mean you can, hypothetically...ummm....clone large breated Scandanavian women in test tubes....if so, we need to talk.

And if that is the case your going to be the moniest guy on the net.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biodan
....(which geometrically increases the negative odds).......
"Geometrically increase....?" You mean exponentially right, or is there a stats class I missed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by biodan
Also, with your roll bar, could a human even sit on the bench? .
Funny that you would bring this up, my 6'3" human buddy had to ride back there on the way home last night, after his car got locked in the parking garage. It is possible, but 110% totally impractical. Practical answer is no with the non removable cross bracing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by biodan
For structural rigidity tho, removal of the back seats can be a negative if i don't have a rollbar or cage.
If you have fold down seats I know for sure it won't have a negatice effect on rigidity, they don't mount to anything firmly. However, it is possible on other cars that the seat back is party to making the rear bulkhead stronger. I could see where your coming from, but not applicable to this case.
  #19  
Old 09-13-2003, 02:36 PM
biodan biodan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDutchMan
Really, DNA manupulation...hmmmm..... does that mean you can, hypothetically...ummm....clone large breated Scandanavian women in test tubes....if so, we need to talk.
LOL, nah, cloning in the original context meant snipping a DNA fragment from one source and then inserting it into a carrier or vector and then putting the combination into another microbe or cell line thats cultured in petri dishes (plastic flasks actually). Purification of the fragments usually used phenol/chloroform and chloroform. Pyrimidine was used in a cleavage reaction in chemical DNA sequencing. The light aromatics like toluene, xylene and benzene were often encountered in organic and physical chem classes but sometimes as cleaning, sterilization or displacement agents in some manipulation steps. All of these are weak mutagens/carcinogens. Back to cloning; nowadays people refer to goats, mice, horses and dream about human cloning... but i've digressed too much already to go on about the 2 forms of cloning whole animals- and how what we usually hear about are not true genetic clones (when they take cells from adults).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDutchMan
"Geometrically increase....?" You mean exponentially right, or is there a stats class I missed?
Same thing in this case. I don't have the numbers, but its something like 10x increased risk for black lung if one smokes and is a coal miner vs just being a coal miner.... heard that those mysterious pneumonias in US forces in Iraq were a combo of the dust and _smoking_ !

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDutchMan
If you have fold down seats I know for sure it won't have a negatice effect on rigidity, they don't mount to anything firmly. However, it is possible on other cars that the seat back is party to making the rear bulkhead stronger. I could see where your coming from, but not applicable to this case.
Ok, thats what i was hoping. it just seemed that a rectangle in that void attached to the latches might help prevent some diagonal flex.

For SteveM- yes, having people paid to do the dangerous stuff is good. They probably have a properly vented area with the good masks.
  #20  
Old 09-13-2003, 03:40 PM
Powertrip Powertrip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDutchMan
Funny that you would bring this up, my 6'3" human buddy had to ride back there on the way home last night, after his car got locked in the parking garage. It is possible, but 110% totally impractical. Practical answer is no with the non removable cross bracing.
Seeing as how I was the 6'3" human guinea pig last night (as well as the dumbass who doesn't pay attention to posted signs warning that the garage will close at 12am) the answer to the question of whether or not a person could ride back there is yes, but only if you've got a very stout back and don't mind laying in some quasi-Thai hooker position (head down, legs spread).

I should audition for Cirque de Solei after the series of acrobatics I had to pull getting in and out of there over and over. I'm going to go try stuffing myself in a mailbox now.

Best Regards,
Chris
  #21  
Old 09-15-2003, 09:59 AM
bluer1 bluer1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingDutchMan
I built this custom rear package tray after seeing some of BioDans ideas. I did mine a little different. It consists of 4 removable parts. The front rail/lip. Used to keep stuff in its' place. The rear deck floor, 2 pieces so that it is easy to remove with the roll bar inplace. And lastly the a rear panel to divide the trunk from the passenger compartment. I used 1/4 plywood and strengthened it by screwing 2x .5 inch wood supports on the underside; then covered everthing in this gray carpet. (I couldn't find black) The shelve is strong enough to support a backpack or other misc. items, whoever it won't support a person. I diliberately used the lightes materials I could find at home depot. The whole thing can be removed in 5min, nothing is bolted in place. There are however tabs on the rear panel the hold the divider in place. I cut everything pretty tight, so it it pretty much a friction fit with the carpet covering all edges.
C'mon, bolt it down. Get some Dzus 1/4 turn fasteners or something.
 

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