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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
Talk about the E83 BMW X3 in this forum!

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  #1  
Old 10-26-2009, 08:47 AM
CanuckSki CanuckSki is offline
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2010 X3 xDrive28i

Hi All,

I am new to the forum and had a question about the X3. My wife and I were at the dealer last weekend to test drive the 328i xDrive. I really liked it but she thought it was too small and bumpy... maybe due to the 17" runflats. So we drove the X3 which of course she liked a lot more.

Someone told me that BMW is just trying to get rid of extra stock before the new X3 comes out. Maybe that explains the agressive sales discounts I was offered on the 2009 without even prompting them (free premium package, PDC and wood trim = $5000).

They had a barebones 2010 version called the xDrive28i. I noticed that this is the same engine that the base model had in 2007. In fact the web address refers to 2006 http://www.bmw.ca/ca/en/newvehicles/...roduction.html How reliable was this motor compared to the 260hp version, and the bigger question, has the automatic transmission issue been solved in 2010?


Thanks

Mark
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  #2  
Old 10-26-2009, 09:54 AM
x3ml x3ml is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckSki View Post

Hi All,

I am new to the forum and had a question about the X3. My wife and I were at the dealer last weekend to test drive the 328i xDrive. I really liked it but she thought it was too small and bumpy... maybe due to the 17" runflats. So we drove the X3 which of course she liked a lot more...
Hello CanuckSki,

1 - Never buy an X3 before you test driven the actual vehicle that you are going to buy.
2 - In Canada, you cannot "lemon out" a Bimmer, just like the folks in U.S. could. When BMW Canada told you the complaints you have are the characteristics of your vehicle, you will not have any leverage what-so-ever. If it's Audi, Merc, Lexus even Gov't Motors, you can lemon them out, but not a Bimmer, MINI or Mitsu.
3 - The 07-08-09-10 use the same AT, many other BMW models use the same AT too. It's difficult to understand why one model in a particular year have more complaints than another. But the default response from the dealers regarding driving issues is that this is how it is supposed to be.
4 - If it is available in MT, get that instead!
5 - The discounts on the X3 are quite amazing, looks like pure bargains when compare with Q5, EX, XC, RDX etc, etc. But you got to look below the surface.

Good Luck!
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  #3  
Old 10-26-2009, 10:36 AM
CanuckSki CanuckSki is offline
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X3ml,

Thanks for the reply. We drove the X3 28i and found it to have as much power as the 328xDrive. It was a bare bones version. The interior didn't have the same feel as the 3 series. We plan on using it as a ski vehicle. How did it work for you in the snow?

So... what has your experience been with the X3? Pointing out the lemon law makes me think you have had some problems. I was wondering why the transmission would be a problem in the X3 if it is used in the 3-series as well. Maybe we should look at a 328i touring instead.



Thanks
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  #4  
Old 10-26-2009, 12:38 PM
x3ml x3ml is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckSki View Post
X3ml,

...So... what has your experience been with the X3? Pointing out the lemon law makes me think you have had some problems...
CS, I am just laying out the important items to you to consider, in an as simple as possible fashion. My experience with my X3 is NOT going to be the same as your experience should you decided to buy one. But as a BMW X3 AT owner since the start of year 2007, who has had multiple BMWs and MINIs, I can tell you that driving characteristics of different loaner X3s and loaner 3 series that have the newer 6 speed ATs do vary from vehicles to vehicles and time to time. To own a vehicle as complex as BMW's drive-by-wire system without any Lemon Law protection is not something one should overlook, in my opinion.

But this is the decision YOU as a consumer should make yourself. How much of a faith on BMW Canada to rectify a problem purchase is warranted, you are going find that out only if you actually developed sticky issues. When you sign on the purchase agreement or read their limited warranty statement, they are not going to tell you that unlike virtually all other major brands, they do not participate in that lemon car arbitration plan (CAMVAP). But as a knowledgeable Canadian consumer, this is what you should know.

As for the question about the X3's performance in snow, I put on winter tires so it got great traction. The problem I have is the temperamental jerky shifting that makes that turn in an incline rather tricky to master. Stopping with the imperfect shifting and un-smooth engine braking of mine, I always needed that extra margin of safety by driving conservatively. I am sure it works great when it's supposed to, but I am just not the best person to answer that question.

Consider going with an 06 X3 with CPO, but make sure you get a good discount out of their inflated asking price though. Going for a used is a much better bet, lack of a better word! Words of caution when you look at that low lease rate for a new X3, this assumes you will be sticking with the vehicle for 48 months (no matter how it drives) and other costs like inspection, down-payment and admin fees etc are still up-front.
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  #5  
Old 10-26-2009, 09:04 PM
Supercourse Supercourse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckSki View Post
They had a barebones 2010 version called the xDrive28i.
Interesting - I missed the media release on this.

Clearly they wanted a Cdn. X3 starting under $40K for the first time (always has been in the U.S.), to undercut the Q5 and even the GLK.

Strange that they do it with a no-choice 6 spd. Auto. Transmission, when a Manual would normally be the way to cut costs.

Also strange that it comes with 50 Series tires (235/50R17) instead of the 55's on the 30i.
(235/55R17 has always been the base tire size on N. American X3's.)
Might give a marginal increase in cornering ability at the expense of maybe a slightly stiffer ride - maybe a recognition of Cdn. vs. U.S. tastes, or something else involved?
Wouldn't help particularly when blasting up the road to the ski hill.

No standard xenons by the look of it - too bad.
The only Package is the panorama roof and heated s/wheel for $1000 (I'd sooner have the adaptive xenons).
Didn't look at adding options a la carte, but as usual it would probably quickly kill the whole competitive price objective.

I agree with x3ml that choosing to go with a well-kept 2006 CPO might be best - and use the savings to equip it with some Nokian WR's so you always qualify as having winter tires.
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  #6  
Old 10-27-2009, 09:32 PM
dharmadoggie dharmadoggie is offline
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Hi. I like my X3 but there is a trade off to be had. It's not the best AWD system for snow. It has a rear drive bias and the rear end can come out. Not to say it is bad, and it has gotten me thru some nasty conditions. But there is no other SUV that come close in dry pavement handling (well, that's an opinion, based on having owned 5 different AWD vehicles in sequence). I kinda wish it had a lock up feature like the Murano, good up to 30 mph. Or a button that said "snow" and it switched to front drive bias. The Murano was my runner up choice, but I wanted a car that I could see the hood of when I drove it. (And it seemed like the paint on them was very susceptible to pitting from road sand - even saw web threads on that.)

Umm, there are some particularly disappointed owners on this site, so you may want to take some comments with a grain of salt. And consider this - a friend just bought a used Murano and the MAF was bad of failed just as they got it. Turns out to be a common problem. Even Japanese reliability is not impeccable.
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2005 X3 3.0i, CPO, white, auto, adaptive xenon lights, stock suspension, premium pkg, cold weather pkg, heated steering wheel. Self installed: factory hitch, paint protection film, mud flaps

Last edited by dharmadoggie; 10-27-2009 at 09:36 PM.
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  #7  
Old 10-28-2009, 06:37 AM
CanuckSki CanuckSki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x3ml View Post
...Consider going with an 06 X3 with CPO, but make sure you get a good discount out of their inflated asking price though...
The dealer also had a used 2006 with 60K, but it was priced at $40,000! Black book listed the high side at $29,600. So what is a fair mark-up for this vehicle???

Thanks again
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  #8  
Old 10-28-2009, 07:18 AM
06BMWX3 06BMWX3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckSki View Post
The dealer also had a used 2006 with 60K, but it was priced at $40,000! Black book listed the high side at $29,600. So what is a fair mark-up for this vehicle???

Thanks again
I bought my X3 2months ago from BMW Ville de Québec, a 2006 3.0i, 58 000km, well equipped, cpo'd, 1.9% financing, and paid around 32 800$.
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  #9  
Old 10-28-2009, 07:26 AM
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X3 Skier X3 Skier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckSki View Post
X3ml,

We plan on using it as a ski vehicle. How did it work for you in the snow?

So... what has your experience been with the X3?

Thanks
I spend the winters in Steamboat Springs and my 05 MT is great in the snow. No problems in up to 18" of new powder. This season will be the 6th year for the trip to CO and every one has been fine.

Cheers
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  #10  
Old 10-28-2009, 08:23 AM
CanuckSki CanuckSki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3 Skier View Post
I spend the winters in Steamboat Springs and my 05 MT is great in the snow. No problems in up to 18" of new powder. This season will be the 6th year for the trip to CO and every one has been fine.

Cheers
Excellent! Now if I could only find 18" of powder to test it out. I'm assuming you are running snows... any preference on make and/or size?


Thanks
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  #11  
Old 10-28-2009, 08:31 AM
CanuckSki CanuckSki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 06BMWX3 View Post
I bought my X3 2months ago from BMW Ville de Québec, a 2006 3.0i, 58 000km, well equipped, cpo'd, 1.9% financing, and paid around 32 800$.
Thanks for the info. That gives me an idea of where to start the negotiations.

Thanks
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  #12  
Old 10-28-2009, 08:38 AM
x3ml x3ml is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dharmadoggie View Post
Umm, there are some particularly disappointed owners on this site, so you may want to take some comments with a grain of salt.
Yes there ARE happy owners out there; many more of them have the pre-2007 X3 ATs. And I was one of them who had a 2004 X3 before I traded it with a 2007. Worst mistake! "Reliability" cannot be put in the same breath between a BMW and other makes. We are talking about flaws or imperfections that come and go, hard to pin point at a moment's notice and last but not least, BMW just cannot fix and have to tell you that the complaints are common you have to live with it. They have this "sue me" attitude because they know, in Canada, suing them means paying the hefty lawyer's fee upfront, adding the heavy toll on mind and time, this cannot be justified with the little compensation in an uncertain outcome, that will come at least 12 months away. Many Canadian get out of their Lemon car every year, but none of them are BMWs, and why? They decided not to join CAMVAP; virtually all other makes participate in it, not BMW/MINI. Would people in the US buy a BMW if thay were the only brand not covered by Lemon Laws? May be some would. Virtually all skydivers are happy about the safety in skydiving too, I am sure!

CS, compares with car buying just 3 years ago, we are living in a different world. When you buy a car today, there is absolutely no room for error if you are to buy a new car. Any new car would depreciate 50% in the first three years and my three-year-old car still hasn't fixed right. To buy or lease a BMW without even driven the actual vehicle is already a leap of faith, not to mention not having any Lemon Law protection.

Back to your used car question. I can assume that the 2006 X3 is a fully equipped, 3.0 model. It's possible that it's a lease return with a $30,000 residual. If you add $3,500 for CPO and reconditioning, then add 20% margin, that's your $40,000. I have seen many around $36,000 asking for a CPO, but $40k is really high. Rule of thumb for me for any used car is NEVER PAY more than their asking price TAXES-IN (background info: typical provincial and federal combined sales tax in Canada is about 12% to 13%).

If you are to trade that 2006 X3 in, be expected to get may be 24K (even in good condition). Adding the $3,500, 10% profit and 13% taxes. You should pay around $34,500 (taxes-in) and dealer still gets their 10% minimum profit. Of course, sometimes, you have to pay a couple of Ks, if you really really dying for that X3 you like.
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  #13  
Old 10-28-2009, 09:27 AM
06BMWX3 06BMWX3 is offline
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Dunno why, but used X3 seems to be a tad cheaper in Province of Québec, and mine was from Markham, Ont when I looked a the first owner info.
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  #14  
Old 10-28-2009, 12:10 PM
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X3 Skier X3 Skier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckSki View Post
Excellent! Now if I could only find 18" of powder to test it out. I'm assuming you are running snows... any preference on make and/or size?


Thanks
No snow tires, just the OEM Scorpions. I replaced them about two months ago with a new set of the same. They have been fine in all kinds of conditions (except ice where only studs work well).

Cheers
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  #15  
Old 10-29-2009, 09:20 AM
CanuckSki CanuckSki is offline
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All

Thanks again for all the advice. Is the CPO really worth it? I checked into it a little more. There is an extensive checklist that the dealer follows... hopefully. But what I also noticed is that (in Canada anyway) there is a handling charge for any claims ...

Handling Charge
There is a $50.00 CDN handling charge (per repair visit) that must be paid by the vehicle owner/lessee for any repairs covered under the terms of this (CPO) Protection Plan.

Anyway, we are going to test drive the vehicle this weekend and give it a good look over, I just dread the negotiation...

Mark
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  #16  
Old 10-29-2009, 09:32 AM
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AzNMpower32 AzNMpower32 is offline
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Dont dread the negotiation, you should be confident that you have the upper hand. Go in with an approximate price that you're willing to pay. Be in control.

CPO warranty in the US also has the $50 deductible per repair.

I think in general, pre-facelift owners seem to have greater overall satisfaction compared to facelift ones. I love our 2004 after 136tkm.
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  #17  
Old 10-29-2009, 09:56 AM
x3ml x3ml is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckSki View Post
Is the CPO really worth it?...
Mark, CPO is worth 100%, though it doesn't cover everything the new car warranty does, remember that labour alone is expensive enough. Without CPO/warranty, just the diagnostic is going to cost over $100, and to find out what exactly is wrong could also be a long process. I won't recommend buying an X3 out of warranty, unless you know the person who had it, well. Still, an X3 is a very complex piece of machinery...

You might want look at this thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...150&highlight=

We didn't get the conclusion of that story from Flambeaux, I wonder how it went?

Oh, the negotiation... be sure to remember my rule of thumb, if it's too much, you have to walk away.
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  #18  
Old 10-29-2009, 01:16 PM
PPXYZ PPXYZ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckSki View Post
Hi All,

I am new to the forum and had a question about the X3. My wife and I were at the dealer last weekend to test drive the 328i xDrive. I really liked it but she thought it was too small and bumpy... maybe due to the 17" runflats. So we drove the X3 which of course she liked a lot more.

Someone told me that BMW is just trying to get rid of extra stock before the new X3 comes out. Maybe that explains the agressive sales discounts I was offered on the 2009 without even prompting them (free premium package, PDC and wood trim = $5000).

They had a barebones 2010 version called the xDrive28i. I noticed that this is the same engine that the base model had in 2007. In fact the web address refers to 2006 http://www.bmw.ca/ca/en/newvehicles/...roduction.html How reliable was this motor compared to the 260hp version, and the bigger question, has the automatic transmission issue been solved in 2010?


Thanks

Mark
The AT problem came about in 2007. I have a new 2009 that is back at the dealership YET AGAIN for that and a myriad of other problems. I suspect they will continue to say that these are 'normal' for a brand new X3.

Normal? NORMAL? OMG. How do intermittent problems like the jerking acceleration, the sudden deceleration, the lack of power when pulling forward, the bouncy suspension and the really ugly problem count as NORMAL in a Chevy much less a really expensive little SAV?

I am LIVID. Does that sound like things have been fixed?

Sorry to be so loud about the issue but I find that I have to keep watch over my brand new car because I never know when it will be absolutely DANGEROUS.
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