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X3 E83 (2004 - 2010)
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  #76  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:05 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post

If you have the weapon on you it will be difficult to take it away without getting shot.
You're not serious, are you? If you have a visible weapon on you, it is much easier to have it taken from you. This is CCW 101.
  #77  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:12 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Originally Posted by Glock13 View Post
You're not serious, are you? If you have a visible weapon on you, it is much easier to have it taken from you. This is CCW 101.
I give up. You haven't heard a word I have said. All you hear is that someone wants to take your rights from you. I am talking about the physical weapon.

My point is that it will be easier to take the sidearm if it is not on you, and in the vehicle.
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  #78  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:14 PM
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lilskel lilskel is offline
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Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Are you a complete @#@$%--people died in this situation.


That is WAY OUT OF LINE. Please tell the deceased FBI family members that he should have used a bigger gun to kill their loved one.:asshole:
A .223 isn't exactly a sniper rifle or a big caliber, and just because somebody owns or has in their vehicle an AR15 does not make them a serial killer. The type of gun doesn't dictate who the person is, at least not a rifle as common as an AR15. Maybe a MAC-10, but AR15 not really. And it's assault style, not assault weapon. Don't place fear in people reading the thread giving them the idea that your speaking about an automatic weapon.

Good luck with the tasers and alarm system, any unknown person in my house without my permission will not be so lucky to receive an electric shock or siren in their ears. What remains they have that are still identifiable will be leaving in a body bag and there's no question about that. They aren't getting a second chance, sorry.

But this thread was about cars anyway..and the whole point of a dedicated holster attached to your vehicle is so that you remove your weapon from your waistband holster when driving and take it with you when you exit the vehicle. Not just leave guns hanging around in the car while you go shopping.
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  #79  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:31 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
I give up. You haven't heard a word I have said.
Really? Here is your quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Personally, I think if you are going to carry it should be fully visible.
If you think that doesn't make it easier to take off you than having it concealed, you don't know anything about firearms.

Last edited by Glock13; 11-04-2009 at 07:33 PM.
  #80  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:35 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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It looks like you have kind of spun yourself around in a circle. It's not a big deal that you don't want to have weapons around. However, laws exist that allow us to if we wish. Everything that has been mentioned in this thread is legal. If you don't like it, work to change the laws.
  #81  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:40 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock13 View Post
Really? Here is your quote:



If you think that doesn't make it easier to take off you than having it concealed, you don't know anything about firearms.
Again, havent heard a word I said. I have been talking about keeping the weapon secure through the majority of my comments. You have decided to take one comment and turn this into CCW tactics.

Let me repeat...if the gun is on you and I try to remove it from you whether concealed or in plain view. You will more than likely draw the weapon and either convince me to back off or shoot me.

On the other hand, you get in a car accident you step out of the car to check the damage..where is your firearm? There is a good chance you left it in the vehicle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock13 View Post
It looks like you have kind of spun yourself around in a circle. It's not a big deal that you don't want to have weapons around. However, laws exist that allow us to if we wish. Everything that has been mentioned in this thread is legal. If you don't like it, work to change the laws.
And it appears that you are waving the flag in peoples faces in order to convince that its okay to risk other peoples lives because you refuse to follow common sense.

ONCE AGAIN --DON't CARE IF YOU CARRY A HOWITZER AS LONG AS ITS SECURE AND CANT BE USED AGAINST YOU OR OTHERS!
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Last edited by Evlengr; 11-04-2009 at 07:43 PM.
  #82  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:43 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Again, havent heard a word I said. I have been talking about keeping the weapon secure through the majority of my comments. You have decided to take one comment and turn this into CCW tactics.

Let me repeat...if the gun is on you and I try to remove it from you whether concealed or in plain view. You will more than likely draw the weapon and either convince me to back off or shoot me.

On the other hand, you get in a car accident you step out of the car to check the damage..where is your firearm? There is a good chance you left it in the vehicle.
I'm sorry dude...you're clueless and it's obvious you have no experience carrying a weapon and are just making things up at this point to save your skin. Do you not understand that if the weapon is visible...let's say in a holster...it is much easier for someone to come up from behind and confiscate your weapon. How am I going to draw my firearm at this point when someone is trying to take it away? It is a free-for-all at this point. This is fifth grade stuff here man. I'm not trying to be arrogant, but this doesn't appear to be your field of expertise...just let it go.

Last edited by Glock13; 11-04-2009 at 07:45 PM.
  #83  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:44 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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By the way, the point of concealment is that nobody else should know you have a weapon on you...therefore they would not try to take it off you. Pretty simple concept man.
  #84  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:54 PM
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Open carry is banned in most states where CCW permits are issued..for a reason. If it's concealed and nobody knows you are carrying a weapon how are they going to try to take it from you? If you carry a weapon openly then you are basically saying, "shoot me first".

And if somebody is trying to take my handgun from me forcibly and I still have control of it, they will be downrange of a couple hollow points. Theres no good reason that somebody would be taking my handgun from me, and there's no waving my gun around to "convince" them to back off...if I draw down on somebody that's because I feel my life is in danger, and in return they are getting shot. A gun isn't a negotiating tool.

The purpose of a car holster is because it's very difficult to draw from your wasit while seated in a car with a seatbelt on.

Bring your taser to a gun fight and then report back. Maybe if I lived in Pleasantville I wouldn't have to think of things like this, but these types of things happen on a daily basis in my city.
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  #85  
Old 11-04-2009, 07:57 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post

ONCE AGAIN --DON't CARE IF YOU CARRY A HOWITZER AS LONG AS ITS SECURE AND CANT BE USED AGAINST YOU OR OTHERS!
You sound like a criminal's best friend.
  #86  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:00 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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Evlengr...how about my wife. Can she conceal carry or shoud I give her a baton?
  #87  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Glock13 View Post
You sound like a criminal's best friend.
Exactly. It's OK to have a gun- just as long as you can't use it...
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  #88  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:15 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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Exactly. It's OK to have a gun- just as long as you can't use it...
That's what his arguments amount to. If evlengr is anti-gun, just come out and say it. First he's all for CCW...then he's just for it if it is "visible"...then you can only have it in the car if it is locked up so you can't use it. Who knows what is next....maybe he is for CCW, but with no ammunition.
  #89  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:18 PM
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Evlengr Evlengr is offline
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Originally Posted by lilskel View Post
Open carry is banned in most states where CCW permits are issued..for a reason. If it's concealed and nobody knows you are carrying a weapon how are they going to try to take it from you? If you carry a weapon openly then you are basically saying, "shoot me first".

And if somebody is trying to take my handgun from me forcibly and I still have control of it, they will be downrange of a couple hollow points. Theres no good reason that somebody would be taking my handgun from me, and there's no waving my gun around to "convince" them to back off...if I draw down on somebody that's because I feel my life is in danger, and in return they are getting shot. A gun isn't a negotiating tool. The purpose of a car holster is because it's very difficult to draw from your wasit while seated in a car with a seatbelt on.

Bring your taser to a gun fight and then report back. Maybe if I lived in Pleasantville I wouldn't have to think of things like this, but these types of things happen on a daily basis in my city.


Don't be a complete buffoon about whether I am pro or anti gun. I have six firearms and a member of the NRA as I stated earlier. I believe in gun safety.

As far as personal experience and training. I started at a very young age. I fired my first machine gun at 5 it happend to be an AR 180 went through more training courses than you are old. And have taken down more than one assailant. Yup I am a criminals friend.


My reasoning for carrying a weapon openly is that it can act as a deterrent, my issue is not with carrying the weapon, it is about keeping it away from someone should you have an accident or leave it in the car by mistake.

And neither one of you has been able to quote from personal experience of actually defending themselves in a life threatening situation, whereas I have.

Typical myopic thinking. Can't back it up with reason or facts try to discredit the person.

Before you type ---- one of you please state how long you have been carrying and how many tmes you had to draw that weapon to defend yourself or loved one?

And please tell me why its policy that police officials secure their weapons in their vehicles?

Again the board is not about your need to carry weapons.....its about BMW's.
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Last edited by Evlengr; 11-04-2009 at 08:26 PM.
  #90  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:25 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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Dude...you are all over the place....relatives who are counter-terrorist specialists, Secret Service....you being shot at three times..firing a machine gun at 5...now you "have taken down more than one assailant"....welcome to the internet!

You are back to now saying, you don't believe in CCW at all. So what is it. Just be straight with us. That is all we are asking. If you think police officials "secure their weapons in their vehicles", you are badly mistaken. What do they do, get out the key to their lockbox and unlock it before they apprehend a criminal?

It's also funny that you are complaining about this not being about BMWs, but you keep posting. By the way, it was the anti-gun crowd on this board who changed the subject.
  #91  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:38 PM
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Again--you have yet to answer any of my questions yet I have tried to explain mine. At this point don't care whether you believe my background or family but<

Please tell me how long you have been carrying and how many times you have had to draw the weapon to defend loved ones?

And since when do you look in a police car and not see their shotgun locked or a sidearm laying out in the open unsecured?

First you say I am anti gun, then you say I don't have any experience, then your militant buddy suggest more firepower and that the sniper that killed people here should have used a bigger gun. Yeessh. I would have let this go a long time ago if not for that one.

I normally never walk away from a good scrap, but the old adage (which is ironically dark humor) you can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent applies.
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  #92  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:47 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Again--you have yet to answer any of my questions yet I have tried to explain mine. At this point don't care whether you believe my background or family but<

Please tell me how long you have been carrying and how many times you have had to draw the weapon to defend loved ones?

And since when do you look in a police car and not see their shotgun locked or a sidearm laying out in the open unsecured?

First you say I am anti gun, then you say I don't have any experience, then your militant buddy suggest more firepower and that the sniper that killed people here should have used a bigger gun. Yeessh. I would have let this go a long time ago if not for that one.

I normally never walk away from a good scrap, but the old adage (which is ironically dark humor) you can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent applies.
Yep, it's pretty obvious you were "outgunned" on this one. I'll answer your questions, once you answer the ones I asked you before....would you like to have a firearm if you were at Trolley Square, can my wife conceal carry, how do I draw my weapon in open-carry if someone is trying to take if from me. Go ahead and answer these and I will then answer yours.
  #93  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:47 PM
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I have never and hope I never have to draw a weapon on anybody, I'm not sure how that makes you any more of an expert. If you had to draw a weapon but did not use it then you probably did not have to draw it in the first place.

Who the hell is talking about leaving shotguns or handguns "laying out in the open unsecured"? A holster attached to your vehicles interior is secure, laying on the seat is unsecured. When you leave the vehicle you secure the handgun in your concealment holster. Any rifle or shotgun would be secured in the trunk.

And yes if he was going out to kill as many people as he could then he should have used a bigger gun, I'm not saying he should have been doing what he was doing, but he obviously did what he wanted to do anyway. Just because he used an AR15 doesn't mean that anybody who has that rifle wants to go around sniping people. What if he was shooting at people with a .22LR, would you then say oh my god, you can't carry a .22 because that's what the DC sniper used. No. It's no better or worse than anything else, the difference is the guy with the gun, not the gun
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  #94  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:49 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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By the way, you keep talking about weapons being unattended in a car. It's been obvious to everyone but you that this thread was about where to put your weapon while you were in your car. It was stated several times. If you can't comprehend that, then I can't help you. It's pretty clear at this point that you have little experience with weapons. Fine. Don't try to pretend you are an expert though. It hurts your credibility.
  #95  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evlengr View Post
Again--you have yet to answer any of my questions yet I have tried to explain mine. At this point don't care whether you believe my background or family but<

Please tell me how long you have been carrying and how many times you have had to draw the weapon to defend loved ones?

And since when do you look in a police car and not see their shotgun locked or a sidearm laying out in the open unsecured?

First you say I am anti gun, then you say I don't have any experience, then your militant buddy suggest more firepower and that the sniper that killed people here should have used a bigger gun. Yeessh. I would have let this go a long time ago if not for that one.

I normally never walk away from a good scrap, but the old adage (which is ironically dark humor) you can't have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent applies.
I normally wouldn't get involved in this, but I think you are letting whatever weird emotional trauma you experienced as a child interfere with your (hopefully) more rational thought processes. I understand you had these experiences, but they are anecdotal and no one else cares about them.

I have to say though, that most of your bad experiences seem to stem from bad choices made by the people around you. I will however agree with you that the gun show loophole should be closed, and that strict background checks and waiting periods should be enforced. One must, however, realize that none of these measures make it harder for criminals to get guns/weapons.

Obviously, gun carrying tactics are different for law enforcement vs. the average citizen. Everyone knows the cop has a gun, and everyone knows that he has more in his car. There is no point in his trying to conceal them...
  #96  
Old 11-04-2009, 08:52 PM
Glock13 Glock13 is offline
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Originally Posted by lilskel View Post

Who the hell is talking about leaving shotguns or handguns "laying out in the open unsecured"? A holster attached to your vehicles interior is secure, laying on the seat is unsecured. When you leave the vehicle you secure the handgun in your concealment holster. Any rifle or shotgun would be secured in the trunk.
Bingo! It's pretty obvious evlengr doesn't have a grasp of even the basics of CCW. It's hard to have a conversation with someone who is uneducated on the issues like this. Take Rick-chitown for example. He didn't know, but he admitted it. I respect his honesty and opinion. It really sounds like evlengr got in over his head on this one and couldn't help himself until it was too late.
  #97  
Old 11-04-2009, 10:03 PM
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Evlengr, Dude...... LOL. My grandfather had a saying; if you're an idiot, keep your mouth shut and keep people guessing, or, you can open it and remove all doubt. Dude..... You're making it way too easy. Bail why you have half a chance. Aslo, where do you live? Pakistan, MD? Most people in 3rd world countries have never seen the kind of combat you have seen. A batton? Really? Kung Fu master? Makes me glad I only grew up in sweet calm LA. Your comments crack me up. Now I'm out.
  #98  
Old 11-04-2009, 10:35 PM
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I checked up on this forum after a long hiatus to see this thread. Man o man.
I have to say Evl, I think you did yourself a disservice on this one.
You do tend to portray yourself as an expert on a lot of topics. But when you seem so far off the mark it makes me wonder about the validity of your knowledge in other threads. Do you really know it all? Or are you just a know-it-all?
  #99  
Old 11-05-2009, 05:29 AM
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Originally Posted by superloud View Post
I checked up on this forum after a long hiatus to see this thread. Man o man.
I have to say Evl, I think you did yourself a disservice on this one.
You do tend to portray yourself as an expert on a lot of topics. But when you seem so far off the mark it makes me wonder about the validity of your knowledge in other threads. Do you really know it all? Or are you just a know-it-all?
I'm just waiting for him to end a post with:
"Stay thirsty, my friends..."
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  #100  
Old 11-05-2009, 06:13 AM
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Keep it Locked

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock13 View Post
Yep, it's pretty obvious you were "outgunned" on this one. I'll answer your questions, once you answer the ones I asked you before....would you like to have a firearm if you were at Trolley Square, can my wife conceal carry, how do I draw my weapon in open-carry if someone is trying to take if from me. Go ahead and answer these and I will then answer yours.
I have been at situations like Trolley Square. I grew up for a while in Philly where for a time it had the highest gun to murder ratio in the US.

And no I would not have wanted a gun there, as I did not need one in the three other situations that a gun was fired. All three where at crowded nightclubs.

My wife has a taser and so do I. If any more is necessary than that I will let SWAT a professionally trained team handle it. I do not want vigilante types running around with weapons creatng more problems. Let's say You, Lilskel, and Div2 all where there. Heard gunshots and drew your weapons. You may ending up shooting each other or an innocent bystander. Then what? However, I am not debating your right to carry. Just to properly lock them up while in a vehicle.

I know my limitations and making a snap decision to fire or not to fire when it comes to risking an innocent life is one I am not willing to take.

There have been three generations of police in our family. All have served in the military but one. As kids we were required to know proper gun safety as well as how to maintain and use multiple types of weapons. Various members of my family serve in different branches of the military or police force. As well as a large group of friends that work in other alphabet agencies.

If I recall the article about Trolley Square it was not a civilian, but an off duty police officer and other police officers that took care of the situation

Now that I have answered your questions, please answer mine:

How long have you been carrying?

How many times have you had to defend your loved ones using that weapon?

BTW here is an example of exactly why I am concerned:

""Law enforcement is against this 100 percent," said Capt. Nelson Brown of the Georgetown Police Department. "We go with a zero-tolerance policy with firearms on school property."

People will break into cars and if there are guns there it will mean that firearms are in the hands of non-permitted individuals, Brown told school board members. He also said confrontations could escalate with students if they know they can break into a teacher's car and get a gun. This was clipped from the Sun News in South Carolina.

Stop taking this out of context and wrapping your self in the flag.
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Last edited by Evlengr; 11-05-2009 at 07:17 AM.
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