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E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 11-04-2009, 10:40 AM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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Ess v3 600hp supercharged z4m

I will be installing the new ESS V3 supercharger as soon as it's available for purchase My question....does anyone have first hand experience or knowledge of tires that will be better suited for this kind of massive power as opposed to my Sumitomo 255/40 ZR18's? I currently use a 75 shot of nitrous with a window switch and my current tires hook fairly well...as in 0 to 60 in 4.2 secs. well With a 600 hp supercharger I'm going to need bigger and better tires. Any input from those who have upgraded their tires would be greatly appreciated. Street tires that is...

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  #2  
Old 11-04-2009, 12:24 PM
JCz04Bimmer JCz04Bimmer is offline
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You'll need to invest in a better suspension to handle what I'm sure will be some epic acceleration squat. That'll also help maintaining grip, in general.

As for tires, go with an extreme performance tire like the Bridgestone Potenza RE11's or Dunlop Direzza Star Spec Z1's. Both are excellent tires and I've owned and tracked both. With proper wheel offsets, you can certainly run a 285 tire in the rear. Again, with proper offsets, you can run a 255 tire up front or wider if you dial in more than 2 degrees of negative camber. I'd recommend buying an 18x10 rear wheel with an offset in the mid to upper 30s and an 18x9 tire with an offset in the upper 30s. That'd be a VERY conservative offset for the rear which will give you headroom to play with various sized spacers to get the tire width of your choice to fit with the amount of negative camber you end up running...
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Old 11-04-2009, 12:37 PM
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Slightly OT, but what clutch are you planning to go with?
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  #4  
Old 11-04-2009, 12:53 PM
F360C F360C is offline
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With a blower and 75 shot of crack you might just wanna skip the street tires make the step to an r comp like the r888, Pilot Sport Cup, P-Zero Corsa.. they are live able on the streets but will grip a fair bit more then the RE-11/star spec. I was actually surprised when I went for r-comps at how good the re-11/re-01r actually was in comparsion. I guess I expected a bigger jump in performance. Either was I think you are going to need every bit of traction you can find and r comps will give you most of the traction your going to need.
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  #5  
Old 11-04-2009, 12:59 PM
JCz04Bimmer JCz04Bimmer is offline
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Originally Posted by F360C View Post
With a blower and 75 shot of crack you might just wanna skip the street tires make the step to an r comp like the r888, Pilot Sport Cup, P-Zero Corsa.. they are live able on the streets but will grip a fair bit more then the RE-11/star spec. I was actually surprised when I went for r-comps at how good the re-11/re-01r actually was in comparsion. I guess I expected a bigger jump in performance. Either was I think you are going to need every bit of traction you can find and r comps will give you most of the traction your going to need.
I'd stick with the street tires, honestly, since those r-comps will have way less grip if they aren't at optimal temperatures. That is, unless you're doing a burnout or two before every trip to the supermarket. Plus, street driven r-comps just disappear on you. They wear so fast.

With the street tires you'll have grip in the cold and almost-as-good grip in the hot. As you mention, the jump in grip from today's extreme performance tires to the non-slick r-comps is not very significant (surprisingly).

Either way, you might also want to look in to a more effective LSD. The M-Diff is great but by no means the pinnacle of LSD technology.
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:01 PM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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I will possibly be doing this when they have it available as well, I was planning on doing some custom stuff to make that power but if they offer it as a kit so be it.

You don't need new suspension to handle the power though it will help to be able to adjust.

I agree just go straight for an R comp, I use Hoosier slicks on my M3 and they handle the power very well. They keep traction in third sometimes which is saying a lot. If you want to stick with "street tires" use either dunlop starspec, bridgetsone re-11s, or nitto NT-05s.
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Old 11-04-2009, 01:03 PM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
I'd stick with the street tires, honestly, since those r-comps will have way less grip if they aren't at optimal temperatures. That is, unless you're doing a burnout or two before every trip to the supermarket. Plus, street driven r-comps just disappear on you. They wear so fast.
Not really. Besides that the best option is Hoosier A6 slicks, they are setup for much much lower temps and don't need to be heated up. They will kill you in the rain though.
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  #8  
Old 11-04-2009, 02:01 PM
JCz04Bimmer JCz04Bimmer is offline
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Not really. Besides that the best option is Hoosier A6 slicks, they are setup for much much lower temps and don't need to be heated up. They will kill you in the rain though.
I wouldn't think that slicks would even be a consideration for a street-driven car. Simply too dangerous, really. I don't care how good someone is a controlling a car, a slick-equipped car on the street with water is a hazard. In fact, someone running slicks on the street and in the wet is grossly negligent.

As for the suspension assisting with putting the power down, it does assist. With the stock suspension and stock power, the rear end squats and squirms at WOT. Now ratchet things up to 600hp and it'll squat even more and squirm even more at WOT. Just look at some cars when they do a dyno pull. Going with stiffer springs will assist in keeping the rear level. Adjustability can help with that as well and will keep keep the squirm under WOT controllable. And with that much power, you generally want everything to be nice and tight with no unnecessary motions that would otherwise upset the car's balance.
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  #9  
Old 11-04-2009, 02:19 PM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
I wouldn't think that slicks would even be a consideration for a street-driven car. Simply too dangerous, really. I don't care how good someone is a controlling a car, a slick-equipped car on the street with water is a hazard. In fact, someone running slicks on the street and in the wet is grossly negligent.

As for suspension assisting with putting the power down, it does assist. With the stock suspension and stock power, the rear end squats and squirms at WOT. Now ratchet things up to 600hp and it'll squat even more and squirm even more at WOT. Just look at some cars when they do a dyno pull. Going with stiffer springs will assist in keeping the rear level. Adjustability can help with that as well and will keep keep the squirm under WOT controllable. And with that much power, you generally want everything to be nice and tight with no unnecessary motions that would otherwise upset the car's balance.

I did not suggest driving with slicks in the rain, unless you are saying I'm suggesting the OP kill himself since I said they would kill you in the rain . You can however still use them. I have been using them on my car for some time.


Sorry but in regards with suspension you don't know what you are talking about, like I said yes it will help to have an adjustable suspension but it's not necessary. You're actually suggesting the opposite of what should be done for the suspension in terms of adjustment and the points you indicated are plain incorrect. Squirm is not related to dampening and spring rates, it's relates to suspension style (which you wont be changing) and bushings.

In a high horsepower car you WANT the car to squat and stay down to put the power down effectively, You do this by running lower spring rates and adjusting dampening, not the opposite you are suggesting (which is for cornering and trades off how much power you can put down).


I know a thing or two about this.
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Last edited by blau335; 11-04-2009 at 02:24 PM.
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  #10  
Old 11-04-2009, 03:06 PM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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Hey guys!

Thanks for all the input I definitely want to go with the high performance street tires...for all around versatility. I appreciate the debate between which tires to use though. As far as mods to the susp. I will try stock setup first and see how it feels. The clutch will have to be upgraded, and any input on that would be great. I was thinking about just burning up my stock clutch first...which shouldn't take long, and then upgrade. My nitrous system will stay, but I'm going to drop down to a 50 shot set for third gear only off the zex traction control window switch
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  #11  
Old 11-04-2009, 03:14 PM
The__J__Factor The__J__Factor is offline
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I might get the s/c kit towards the end of next year as well, looking forward to the release of the new stage 1,2,3 kits. I think stage 2 will be the big winner with everyone, front mount, relatively cheap and no major work needs to be done.
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  #12  
Old 11-04-2009, 03:28 PM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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I bet your right about stage 2 being a winner. I just know my self too well....a few months after stage 2 and I'm on the phone to ESS asking for stage 3. I actually like the idea of having the forged pistons and rods just as a little extra buffer, plus I'm a nitrous whore We have forged cranks already so you throw in the pistons and rods, and it's a f!@# tank
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Old 11-04-2009, 04:31 PM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
Hey guys!

Thanks for all the input I definitely want to go with the high performance street tires...for all around versatility. I appreciate the debate between which tires to use though. As far as mods to the susp. I will try stock setup first and see how it feels. The clutch will have to be upgraded, and any input on that would be great. I was thinking about just burning up my stock clutch first...which shouldn't take long, and then upgrade. My nitrous system will stay, but I'm going to drop down to a 50 shot set for third gear only off the zex traction control window switch
JB racing lightweight flywheel + pretty much any upgraded clutch. Not enough torque even with stage 3 to overpower pretty much all aftermarket clutches.

Thing is no one technically sells a clutch kit for our car, but the disk size and bolt pattern of the pressure plate are the same as the M3, my only concern is the possibility of the pressure plate geometry being different and not disengaging the clutch fully with the location of the Z4 slave.
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  #14  
Old 11-04-2009, 05:25 PM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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yeh...good point. I'll send Roman an email at ESS to see what they recommend. I'm sure they have already thought through this one.
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Old 11-05-2009, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
Hey guys!

Thanks for all the input I definitely want to go with the high performance street tires...for all around versatility. I appreciate the debate between which tires to use though. As far as mods to the susp. I will try stock setup first and see how it feels. The clutch will have to be upgraded, and any input on that would be great. I was thinking about just burning up my stock clutch first...which shouldn't take long, and then upgrade. My nitrous system will stay, but I'm going to drop down to a 50 shot set for third gear only off the zex traction control window switch
Be sure to do a dyno run when you are done with the install of the charger...so we can see what the RWHP is. Sounds mean!

BTW...can you pass on the info for the nitrous kit you are using, thanks. Also, I believe someone else on this forum was using some sort of other spray to cool the intake down during hot days. I was thinking of doing this, since during the hot summer days you can really feel the loss of power on the supercharger. You may want to look into this...?

Last edited by chargedZ; 11-05-2009 at 12:42 AM.
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Old 11-05-2009, 02:48 AM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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Originally Posted by chargedZ View Post
Be sure to do a dyno run when you are done with the install of the charger...so we can see what the RWHP is. Sounds mean!

BTW...can you pass on the info for the nitrous kit you are using, thanks. Also, I believe someone else on this forum was using some sort of other spray to cool the intake down during hot days. I was thinking of doing this, since during the hot summer days you can really feel the loss of power on the supercharger. You may want to look into this...?
That was me, it's methanol. For ESS's tune it will only do its thing on hot days (like 90) or when you are really pushing it though. They don't tune specifically for methanol as a policy it seems.
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  #17  
Old 11-05-2009, 05:08 AM
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275 40 18 normal street tires with a little low tyre pressure would be fine if you dont drag race
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:14 AM
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Be sure to do a dyno run when you are done with the install of the charger...so we can see what the RWHP is. Sounds mean!
Not to threadjack, but dyno numbers mean next to zero. If you want to play a dyno game, then the more important number is the difference/gain between start and finish. If you want a real-world measure of performance that can't be played with like dyno numbers can, borrow someone's V-Box (or similiar) and take successive 60mph-130mph timings before and after and compare.

Quote:
For the sake of comparison, here are some 60-130 times for other fast street and production vehicles:

NOTE: Only the below runs with an asterisk (*) next to them have been verified. The accuracy of the other runs can not be guaranteed.

3.9* - 900+ rwhp Supra, 88mm turbo, 30 psi, TH400 Auto, ET Drags
4.74* - 996TT 890 rwhp, Divexxtreme 2-shifts
4.9 - 940 rwhp Supra (35 psi)
5.1 - 840 rwhp Supra (30 psi)
5.4 - 1,000 rwhp TT Viper
5.6 - Bugatti Veyron (estimate based off of verified 100 - 200kph time of 4.8)
5.9 - GSXR 1000 with bolt-ons
5.98* - C5 Vette with big motor and NOS
6.1 - Saleen S7 Twin Turbo
6.69* - Dr. Jitsu / 996 GT2 / 700 crank HP / 1-shift
6.9 - Mosler MT900S
7.0 - Ferrari Enzo
7.24 - Mercedes SLR McLaren
7.3 - Porsche Carrera GT
7.56* - C5 Z06TT (APS Turbo, no cats, stock muffler, 573 rwhp @ 9.5 psi) / 1 shift
7.73* - 997TT with ECU flash / 2 shifts
7.86* - Corvette C6 Z06, stock, Divexxtreme / 2 shifts)
8.07* - Lamborghini LP640 / 2 shifts
8.86* - Stock 997TT / 32 degrees, Tiptronic (0 shifts)
9.10* - 993 Ruf R Turbo 490 HP / 2 shifts
9.4 - Lamborghini Diablo VT 6.0
9.5 - Ferrari F430
9.6 - Ferrari F50
10.06* - 996TT with ECU flash / 1 shift
10.9 - Lamborghini Murcielago
11.7 - Ferrari Challenge Stradale
12.1 - Lamborghini Gallardo
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  #19  
Old 11-05-2009, 09:28 AM
F360C F360C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
I'd stick with the street tires, honestly, since those r-comps will have way less grip if they aren't at optimal temperatures. That is, unless you're doing a burnout or two before every trip to the supermarket. Plus, street driven r-comps just disappear on you. They wear so fast.

With the street tires you'll have grip in the cold and almost-as-good grip in the hot. As you mention, the jump in grip from today's extreme performance tires to the non-slick r-comps is not very significant (surprisingly).

Either way, you might also want to look in to a more effective LSD. The M-Diff is great but by no means the pinnacle of LSD technology.
A cold r888 still has way more grip then a cold re-11.... the only problem is wear but then again if he is using street tires that don't give him the grip he needs then he is going to be spinning the re-11s and wearing them fast anyways. R-comps do get way better grip as they heat up but that is not to say they don't have tons when they are cold too. They just get alot more grip as they heat up. No matter what a softer compound (r-comp) is going to have more grip then a header compound (street tire). For instance when ever I autox up here they make sure you do all your runs on cold tires and my r888s are about 1.5 seconds faster on an autox course then the same course on cold street tires. R888s make there most grip when all the tread lines are worns away and they look like slicks. As long as you don't run them in the rain when they are that worn you should have no problem with them in the rain. BMW traction control combined with the best traction control in the world, your right foot, will make sure you have no problems. Even still they are totally fine to run in the rain with DSC off. In fact my buddy Todd runs the Alliston Honda Plant factory race team up here and there rain tires are full tread depth r888s. If they can run them on the track at race speeds in the rain then one should have no problem on the street.

Also I think you might have mis understood what I said or I didn't do a good job of explaining what I ment in terms of the r-comps compared to re-11/re-01r. An r-comp DOES have a ton more grip then any street tire I have driven ( I have used pretty much every one except for nitto tires) but it just surpised me how good the re-01r's still were. that being said going from re-11's to r-comps took my best time at time attacks at track by my old house from 1:23.4s to 1:21.1s. That is with no other changes to the car except for the comps
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  #20  
Old 11-05-2009, 11:16 AM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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ChargedZ

I have a ZEX wet 75 shot with 10lb bottle, ZEX remote bottle opener, ZEX bottle heater, ZEX traction control...which allows what rpm and gear for activation as well as max rpm nitrous shut off. I have a dual ZEX purge kit with red led lights. The purge allows you to purge air through the line so that activation occurs with pure nitrous. Race comp AFR and nitrous guage which I feel are very important. ZEX nitrous systems will automatically adjust fuel ratio depending on what the bottle psi is. The bottle heater is critical for maintaining at least 900 psi for a more dramatic nitrous punch! On my switch panel, the red push button is the purge, the blue guard switch is bottle heater, the red guard switch is the nitrous arm, and the window type switch is to open my nitrous bottle remotely from the comfort of my seat. It's not a perfect looking setup, but I think it looks nice. I had the work done professionally with custom install of switch panel and guages out the door after taxes for $2700. A little expensive for a nitrous setup....but you can easily spend more buy the way nitrous and superchargers compliment each other nicely. Nitrous dramatically cools the intake charge during hot summer months and superchargers love cold weather when nitrous bottles are difficult to heat to optimum psi
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:17 AM
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basar13 basar13 is offline
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Originally Posted by jragan View Post
Not to threadjack, but dyno numbers mean next to zero. If you want to play a dyno game, then the more important number is the difference/gain between start and finish. If you want a real-world measure of performance that can't be played with like dyno numbers can, borrow someone's V-Box (or similiar) and take successive 60mph-130mph timings before and after and compare.


Although it is not mean next to zero i agree that the real deal is acceleration times..
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:27 AM
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ChargedZ

I have a ZEX wet 75 shot with 10lb bottle, ZEX remote bottle opener, ZEX bottle heater, ZEX traction control...which allows what rpm and gear for activation as well as max rpm nitrous shut off. I have a dual ZEX purge kit with red led lights. The purge allows you to purge air through the line so that activation occurs with pure nitrous. Race comp AFR and nitrous guage which I feel are very important. ZEX nitrous systems will automatically adjust fuel ratio depending on what the bottle psi is. The bottle heater is critical for maintaining at least 900 psi for a more dramatic nitrous punch! On my switch panel, the red push button is the purge, the blue guard switch is bottle heater, the red guard switch is the nitrous arm, and the window type switch is to open my nitrous bottle remotely from the comfort of my seat. It's not a perfect looking setup, but I think it looks nice. I had the work done professionally with custom install of switch panel and guages out the door after taxes for $2700. A little expensive for a nitrous setup....but you can easily spend more buy the way nitrous and superchargers compliment each other nicely. Nitrous dramatically cools the intake charge during hot summer months and superchargers love cold weather when nitrous bottles are difficult to heat to optimum psi




Wow looking good !!!

Yes nitrous is cold but and increases horsepower just alone by cooling but because of nitrous you bring more oxygen you burn more fuel for more horsepower so temps go up. Water / meth kits can help you decrease the egt, intake temp... and also decrease the risk of detonation.. i also recommend you to use a knock sensor with alarm inside and egt fuel pressure and water temp gauges

Last edited by basar13; 11-05-2009 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:30 AM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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By the way I will definitely get a dyno after the v3 is installed with and without nitrous. Once all that is done and I can figure out what tires I want...I will get some 1/4 mile, 0 to 60, 60 to 130 times. Anyone want to guess what the V3 will do for 0 to 60 times with proper street tires, clutch and everything else stock. Obviously driver skill, temps, road condition bla bla bla will play a part....but just a ball park #.
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:38 AM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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basar13...I agree. I'm looking at more protective measures as well. I forgot to mention that I also use 1 step cooler spark plugs. I'm doing research on the water/meth. Thanks for pm.
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Old 11-05-2009, 09:59 PM
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article about supercharged nitrous engines

There comes a point in your power buildup where you may consider adding nitrous oxide injection to your supercharged car. This point typically coincides with reaching a level of performance that means increased investment and diminishing returns from your supercharger. For example, my car comes from the factory with a 5th generation Eaton MP45 supercharger. This supercharger is limited to about 230hp worth of flow rating and so no matter what I do with bolt-on upgrades on my engine, my peak horsepower will not exceed 230hp limit because that is the point at which the supercharger becomes the bottle neck in my system.

As we've talked about in previous articles there is still the option of porting the factory supercharger for a 10 to 15% gain in capacity (which in this case would be another 23 to 35 horsepower). There is also the option of retrofitting a larger supercharger such as the Eaton M62 to gain potential up to over 300hp depending on the final choice of a supercharger.

This modification path (porting or replacing the factory supercharger) can prove to be complex and costly, especially if the supercharger is integrated into the intake manifold (and possibly an air to water intercooler) as the case is with many factory supercharged cars.

A possible viable solution for this situation is to use nitrous oxide injection to supplement the power delivery when racing, and being satisfied with a reliable lower powered car when the nitrous is off and we're not racing.

The reason why nitrous oxide (N2O) becomes a great power adder is twofold:

1- Nitrous is cheap as far as horsepower per dollar goes, and especially in the situations where we're already supercharged and so will only be using it on the rare occasions when we do hit the track.

2- Nitrous oxide is a great 'chiller' as it comes out of the bottle at a temperature of negative 127*F and is capable of cooling the overall supercharged air charge mixture by over 100*F as reported by enthusiasts, this is an additional temperature reduction over the effects of whatever intercooler you have fitted. This in-fact makes nitrous a great proposition for cars that have already maxed out their superchargers, where the supercharger is running at peak rpms and producing very high outlet temperatures. The nitrous oxide injection can effectively boost the thermal efficiency of the supercharger when it is most stressed out and give us a nice, cool, and dense mixture.

3- Nitrous oxide fuel delivery is fairly straight forward to setup and to tune, especially on newer model cars with return-les fuel systems, or difficult to crack computers that make it difficult to upgrade (and properly tune) a much larger supercharger setup. Nitrous oxide fuel delivery can be set-up totally independently from the OEM ECU and fuel system and thus makes nitrous a possible application for German cars with stubborn computers.

4- This is a racer technique... most cars seem to perform better during the winter months because the air is cooler, horsepower is elevated, and the tracks although cold, can be prepared for traction and will heat up enough during the night to allow for traction and to give people the ability to exploit the cold dense air to post their best times of the year. As the weather gets warmer, traction increases because the asphalt is warm and sticky, but horsepower is reduced due to warmer, less dense air. Typically racers find that their cars vary in their quarter mile performance by as much as a half a second between their summer tune and their winter tune, especially if you're using a supercharger or turbocharger that compresses (and further heats) the incoming air.

The solution to on-track consistency, racers have found, is to combine the use of nitrous oxide (which is summer friendly) with forced induction (superchargers and turbochargers) which are winter friendly. In the summer time, the outside temperature is high, and so the nitrous bottle pressure is maintained at a high level above 1100 psi. This allows for a generous nitrous flow rate under the sustained pressure (even without a bottle heater) which gives great summer performance for nitrous assisted cars. While in the winter, the outside temperatures drop significantly, the nitrous in the bottle contracts and the bottle pressure drops, subsequently, the nitrous flow rate drops and nitrous assisted cars show worse performance in the winter times.

The complete opposite is true for supercharged cars that produce great horsepower in the winter from compressing cool dense air, and poor horsepower in the summer heat. When you combine these two power adders you get pretty flat and consistent horsepower production year round because the supercharger shines when the nitrous is weak, and the nitrous shines when the supercharger is weak, and thus together, they give consistent power deliver year round.

Pre-cautions:

Now we have to consider that nitrous oxide is an oxidizer and thus not only does it increase the amount of air and fuel combusting in the cylinder, but it also produces a faster moving flame front due to the oxidizer properties of the nitrous oxide. This means that additional timing retard, great octane fuel, and possibly colder spark plugs will be required to run spray on a supercharged car. Furthermore, because of its cooling effect, a 100hp shot on a supercharged Camaro can very easily put down OVER 120 rear wheel horsepower of additional power. This means that the 'out of the box' jetting of a nitrous kit may not be adequate on a supercharged car and you'd have to make sure to monitor and possibly increase the fuel jetting to match the final horsepower figure of your car). Last but not least, if you're running a 500hp supercharged car with an additional 120hp of nitrous oxide injection, then you must make sure that your fuel delivery (fuel pump and fuel lines) are able to flow the total amount of fuel required to deliver 620hp.

Applications scenarios:

1- You have a car like mine, a 2005 C230 kompressor that comes with a 230hp limited Eaton MP45. ECU on the car is a Siemens ECU that very few people know how to tune, and the fuel system uses a return-less setup with an in-tank fuel pressure regulator. With this kind of setup all forms of dry nitrous injection are out of the question because we can neither compensate for fuel through flashing the factory ECU, nor can we elevate fuel pressure during the nitrous injection because the fuel pressure regulator is in-accessible....

Recommended kit:

A wet nitrous injection kit that injects both fuel and nitrous oxide from the injection nozzle.

Injection location:

After the supercharger, after the intercooler, and into the intake manifold of the car.

Maximum recommended injection:

25% of the original total power figure which corresponds to around a 50 hp shot of nitrous on our example.

Expected final horsepower:

60 to 65 wheel horsepower and possible about 130 ft-lbs of additional torque!

2- You have a car that has an accessible fuel pressure regulator, or an ECU that can be re-flashed for nitrous oxide or a 'dual tune' setup. In this case it is recommended to use a dry nitrous kit for two reasons:

First: Dry kits are safer on supercharged cars (as long as the fuel delivery through the injectors or raised fuel pressure is adequate) because they hold a reduced chance of intake backfires because the intake manifold is dry of fuel.

Second: Dry nitrous injection contains no fuel, and so we don't need to worry about fuel falling out of suspension from the injected air. This means that we no longer have to spray the nitrous right before the intake manifold and we now have the option to move the point of injection much farther back. Spraying nitrous BEFORE the intercooler, right after the supercharger gives the nitrous stream more time and more contact with the compressed air coming out of the supercharger which results in more cooling and further increased horsepower.

Recommended kit:

A dry nitrous injection kit that injects only nitrous oxide from the injection nozzle.

Injection location:

After the supercharger, before or after the intercooler and not necessarily right at the intake manifold of the car.

Maximum recommended injection:

25% of the original total power figure which corresponds to around a 50 hp shot of nitrous.

Expected final horsepower:

70-75 wheel horsepower and possible about 130 ft-lbs of additional torque!

3- You have a car that has an accessible fuel pressure regulator, or an ECU that can flashed for nitrous oxide or a 'dual tune' setup. You also want to make as much horsepower as possible from your nitrous...

In this case it is recommended to use a dry nitrous kit injecting before the supercharger. As we mentioned in our articles on twin charging (combining turbochargers with superchargers for added performance), when two 'chargers' are chained in series where one charger feeds the next, then the two pressure ratios of the charger combine because the second charger compresses air that is already compressed by the first. For example two turbochargers set for a 1.5 pressure ratio (or 7 psi of boost), running in sequential mode will result in a final pressure ratio of 2.25 bar (or 18psi of boost) which is more than the 'expected' 14psi that is the sum of the two boost levels.

Similarly, injecting nitrous oxide before the supercharger, delivers already compressed air. This is true weather we are talking about nitrous being compressed because it has twice the oxygen concentration as normal air or we're talking about the nitrous cooling and compressing the incoming air. The final amount of compression observed by the supercharger inlet will vary depending on the ratio of incoming air to the size of the nitrous shot, and can result in an increase in boost of between 0.5 to 2.5 psi!

This boost increase is in addition to the power increase of the nitrous oxide injection and so it can be an additional 5 to 25 hp.

Recommended kit:

A dry nitrous injection kit that injects only nitrous oxide from the injection nozzle.

Injection location:

Before the supercharger inlet.

Maximum recommended injection:

25% of the original total power figure which corresponds to around a 50 hp shot of nitrous.

Expected final horsepower:

75-100 wheel horsepower and possible about 160 ft-lbs of additional torque!

Things to avoid:

1- No matter where you setup the nitrous injection, make sure not to spray nitrous into your MAS air flow sensor or your intake air temperature sensor. These temperature dependant sensors, tell the ECU to advance the timing in colder conditions. As we mentioned earlier, nitrous is an oxidizer that increases the speed of travel of the combustion event and thus requires maintained (if not retarded) ignition timing compared to a supercharged only setup. Avoid spraying on these temperature sensitive sensors to prevent accidental timing advance from occurring.

2- Avoid spraying a wet kit (fuel) before your supercharger, as the wet fuel mist will damage the supercharger rotors and strip their coatings.

3- Make sure you check your air fuel ratio on the nitrous and don't stick to the 'out of the box' air to fuel settings with the kit. For example an extra 2.5 psi in your intake may or may not be compensated by your stock ECU and so depending on how well the ECU reacts you will have to adjust the fuel jetting on the nitrous kit.

I am a master electrical engineer who has been Interested in cars and performance modifications for the last 13 years. I have moderated one import performance website for 3 years. I have turbocharged one car, highly modified a twin turbo monster, and have a lot of gained 'experience' on my friend's cars. My current vehicle is a 2005 Mercedes C200 Kompressor which is supercharged and modified.

Find out more about supercharger performance by visiting My blog: http://www.superchargerperformance.com.

Article Source: http://*************.com/?expert=Haitham_Al_Hum
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