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E36 /7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 roadster and coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #26  
Old 11-05-2009, 09:34 PM
Jermy1304 Jermy1304 is offline
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so in other words.....CHU-CHING!
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  #27  
Old 11-06-2009, 01:07 AM
JCz04Bimmer JCz04Bimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blau335 View Post
I did not suggest driving with slicks in the rain, unless you are saying I'm suggesting the OP kill himself since I said they would kill you in the rain . You can however still use them. I have been using them on my car for some time.
I know. I was just saying that I wouldn't think slicks on a street-driven car would even be a consideration. If, G-d forbid, I was involved in an accident with a car running slicks on the street, you better believe I'd sue the living crap out of the driver for negligently operating their car. At full tread depth an r-compound is fine on the street because they can still function in the rain. There's a reason why they get DOT-approved...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blau335 View Post
Sorry but in regards with suspension you don't know what you are talking about, like I said yes it will help to have an adjustable suspension but it's not necessary. You're actually suggesting the opposite of what should be done for the suspension in terms of adjustment and the points you indicated are plain incorrect. Squirm is not related to dampening and spring rates, it's relates to suspension style (which you wont be changing) and bushings.
And here's an example of how not to respond to someone's post. No need to be combative or tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Take a deep breath, have some maturity, and realize that we're all just here to help, not lecture and certainly not disparage people.

My only point is that upgrading your suspension will assist with maintaining stability obviously at speed but also at launch which can be beneficial for an extremely high-powered car. Plus, a stiffer rear setup will definitely reduce squirm. Of course bushings and/or a beefed up sway bar will help too. As for squat, I see your point about actually wanting it to occur when it comes to putting big power down. Question though. If it squats so much that you start rubbing on fender liners, how would you address that? Higher rate springs? Tighten compression and rebound?

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Originally Posted by F360C View Post
A cold r888 still has way more grip then a cold re-11.... the only problem is wear but then again if he is using street tires that don't give him the grip he needs then he is going to be spinning the re-11s and wearing them fast anyways. R-comps do get way better grip as they heat up but that is not to say they don't have tons when they are cold too.
I'm still not sure I completely believe that the compound of a cold r-comp provides better grip than cold street-compound. When I ran a set of R888's with a few days on them for the first time (bought 'em used), before getting warmed up I found them to be much more skittish at the point my RE01R were just starting to howl. Maybe they were capable of gripping beyond the RE01R but the experience was not confidence-inducing.

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Originally Posted by F360C View Post
Also I think you might have mis understood what I said or I didn't do a good job of explaining what I ment in terms of the r-comps compared to re-11/re-01r. An r-comp DOES have a ton more grip then any street tire I have driven ( I have used pretty much every one except for nitto tires) but it just surpised me how good the re-01r's still were. that being said going from re-11's to r-comps took my best time at time attacks at track by my old house from 1:23.4s to 1:21.1s. That is with no other changes to the car except for the comps
Understood you completely. I personally found the R888s to be only marginally better than my RE01Rs. Full disclosure. I've run the RE01R's, between my Z and 3er, at around 15 track days. I only had one 2-day event on the R888's. That all said, I loved the R888's under braking, cold or hot, than the RE01R's. No matter how good a street tire is on the track, I'm always disappointed by their skittishness under braking.
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  #28  
Old 11-06-2009, 08:20 AM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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#26
Yesterday, 09:34 PM
Jermy1304
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so in other words.....CHU-CHING!







The nice thing about the V2 and 3 ESS supercharger, is that the fuel delivery and dme are upgraded to handle more fuel demand and certainly timing retard under massive boost. I think a conservative wet 50 shot with the V3 and the right TIRES would be an experience to write about that 50 shot could add up tp 100 additional tq at the wheels


As far as tires go....I'm thinking RE-11's....what do you guys think about max size without rubbing problems and mods???

Last edited by fr8tdog; 11-06-2009 at 08:22 AM.
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  #29  
Old 11-06-2009, 08:53 AM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
And here's an example of how not to respond to someone's post. No need to be combative or tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Take a deep breath, have some maturity, and realize that we're all just here to help, not lecture and certainly not disparage people.
You are someone giving bad advice without knowledge on the subject which is clear to anyone who has ever setup a car. It's not combative simply corrective with a dash of annoyance for people who give really bad advice then argue about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
My only point is that upgrading your suspension will assist with maintaining stability obviously at speed but also at launch which can be beneficial for an extremely high-powered car.
No your point was very specific to upgrade the suspension to a stiffer one which is not accurate when setting up for putting power to the ground. What would you have him do with his alignment? dial in 2 degrees of camber in the back as well (again the wrong thing to do if you want to put power down)


Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
Plus, a stiffer rear setup will definitely reduce squirm. Of course bushings and/or a beefed up sway bar will help too.
No squirm is only suspension style and the play in the bushings, nothing to do with spring rates or dampening, period. (as I said so I'm going to stop repeating it)



Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
As for squat, I see your point about actually wanting it to occur when it comes to putting big power down. Question though. If it squats so much that you start rubbing on fender liners, how would you address that? Higher rate springs? Tighten compression and rebound?
You would not even make this comment if you were knowledgeable, even under full travel your tires will not hit your fender liner (assuming an improper offset has not been chosen)
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  #30  
Old 11-06-2009, 09:29 AM
JCz04Bimmer JCz04Bimmer is offline
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I'm the first to admit that I have minimal knowledge of how to setup a car for drag-strip performance with big power. That said, I have plenty of track experience. I wasn't aware that the OP was interested only in hearing about improving putting the power down in only a straight-line...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blau335 View Post
No your point was very specific to upgrade the suspension to a stiffer one which is not accurate when setting up for putting power to the ground. What would you have him do with his alignment? dial in 2 degrees of camber in the back as well (again the wrong thing to do if you want to put power down)
Maybe we're thinking about this in two different ways. When I think of "putting the power down", I'm thinking partially of off-the-line performance but, more primarily, I'm thinking of putting the power down effectively at the apex.

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Originally Posted by blau335 View Post
No squirm is only suspension style and the play in the bushings, nothing to do with spring rates or dampening, period. (as I said so I'm going to stop repeating it)
If you stiffen up spring rates and compression/rebound, you're going to get less squirm. If you go to solid or higher durometer bushings, you're going to get less squirm. Upgrading the suspension may not be getting at the root-cause of the squirm, but it will certainly reduce it's impact. I have first hand and repeated experience on this one both in the Z4M and the 3er.

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Originally Posted by blau335 View Post
You would not even make this comment if you were knowledgeable, even under full travel your tires will not hit your fender liner (assuming an improper offset has not been chosen)
If the OP intends to run a wider tire and wheel, this is a reasonable concern to point out. Ya. Stock wheels with stock tires, you're not going to have a problem. Even a 275 tire with a "right enough" offset won't give you trouble. Run a 285+ rear tire and you have to be careful about rubbing and nailing the offset which is why I suggested going with a mid-30s offset to allow for the use of spacers to get fitment spot-on.

Again, take a deep breath, buddy. I'm not going to get in to a flame-war with you. Obviously you're one of those guys that gets a kick out of telling people you know everything and they know nothing. That's fine. I'm secure enough to know that I have enough knowledge to chime in when I think I have the answer to someone's questions.
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  #31  
Old 11-06-2009, 10:06 AM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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Maybe I should chime in

My goal for the car is to take advantage of the 600+ hp V3 supercharger, mostly at the stoplight on my way to my favorite bar or grocery store. I want the 4sec or less feel to 60 mph and still have fun driving around mountain corners. I would like to be able to except an occasional race from a light with respectable results. I don't plan to make this a full time drag car or anything like that. This is my weekend toy and I would like to drive it if it's raining or not...but still get max performance with balance in mind I think both of guys make some good points! I'm leaning toward the RE-11's, but not sure on size. What would be the max size with a simple swap. How much of a difference would I see in 0 to 60 time verse size of tire? Loaded question I know.....but just an abstract view is what I'm curious about.

Didn't mean to start a spat....grab a cold one
Cheers
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  #32  
Old 11-06-2009, 10:16 AM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
I'm the first to admit that I have minimal knowledge of how to setup a car for drag-strip performance with big power. That said, I have plenty of track experience. I wasn't aware that the OP was interested only in hearing about improving putting the power down in only a straight-line...

Maybe we're thinking about this in two different ways. When I think of "putting the power down", I'm thinking partially of off-the-line performance but, more primarily, I'm thinking of putting the power down effectively at the apex.

Having a supercharger has nothing to do with how you would set your suspension up at the track, you modify the suspension the same way no matter if you have 10hp or 1000hp. If you want to talk about getting around the corners faster after adding big horsepower you talk about downforce, period.

You're now in the saving face phase.

Just stop because you're way over your head.
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Last edited by blau335; 11-06-2009 at 10:33 AM.
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  #33  
Old 11-06-2009, 10:36 AM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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Cold one anyone?
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  #34  
Old 11-06-2009, 10:41 AM
blau335 blau335 is offline
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fr8tdog

All you need is some nice wide tires and maybe some uprated Trailing arm bushings (they basically take the full force of your acceleration and transfer it to the chassi) if you just want to puts around on the street.


If you really want to improve 0-60 you have to soften (not tighten ) your rear end up in addition.

Also if possibly stick with 18s, or even swap down to 17s. You want a meaty sidewall to really get full rubber engagement.
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  #35  
Old 11-06-2009, 10:55 AM
PDP///M PDP///M is offline
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Het fr8tdog, the fuel pressure regulator on a c230 w/ m271 is actually part of the fuel filter and not in the tank. I dont know how much power you're trying to get out of that thing, but those exhaust valve seats are notorious for warping, especially if its run the slightest lean.
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  #36  
Old 11-06-2009, 11:36 AM
JCz04Bimmer JCz04Bimmer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blau335 View Post
Having a supercharger has nothing to do with how you would set your suspension up at the track, you modify the suspension the same way no matter if you have 10hp or 1000hp. If you want to talk about getting around the corners faster after adding big horsepower you talk about downforce, period.
So you'd be OK with the stock suspension of, say, a Crown Victoria with a motor swap? Of course suspension impacts your ability to put power down and remain stable under intense acceleration. Granted, our cars already have a more competent setup than most cars out there but I'd still upgrade it if I were doubling my horsepower. At launch, do you not want your car to remain as level as possible without sacrificing grip?

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Originally Posted by blau335 View Post
You're now in the saving face phase.

Just stop because you're way over your head.
Grow up, will ya?
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  #37  
Old 11-06-2009, 12:58 PM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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Thanks...but that article was not about my car I was just posting an article for supercharger/nitrous combo in general. The author did a great job explaining the advantages of combining the two for those interested. Thanks anyway
Cheers
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  #38  
Old 11-06-2009, 01:07 PM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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thanks blau335....I think I'm going with the RE-11's 285 in the rear 18's. I will look into the bushing's as well...as far as susp. goes maybe ESS can help me with that when I ship my car to AZ for the VT3 install. Thanks for all of the input guys! Roman at ESS emailed me today and said the VT3 won't be released until early next year. When I get this thing done, I'll start a new thread with pics and videos of workmanship and performance Like a kid waiting for Christmas morning.
Cheers
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  #39  
Old 11-06-2009, 04:41 PM
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basar13 basar13 is offline
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This car is going to be FAST good luck keep on searching it will save you money
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  #40  
Old 11-06-2009, 04:42 PM
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also start reducing weight
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  #41  
Old 11-06-2009, 08:39 PM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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basar13,

I would love to hear more about how you reduced weight! I'm very interested in doing the same. I think you are really on to something with reduced weight and your cool as s!!% nitrous system. Keep in touch and thanks for your input.

Cheers
Joe

ps...I freaking loved the flames out the pipe when you waxed the M5Sweet
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  #42  
Old 11-06-2009, 11:34 PM
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fr8tdog...thanks for that great writeup about how to use Nitrous with superchargers etc. The OP really started an awesome thread here! Tons of great info for us supercharged Z owners! I never really considered using nitrous before, since my only experience with it was in the early 90's for street racing in Chicago...and I saw the damage it did to my brothers Eclipse motor, kaboom. Anyway, with the ESS system I have and upgraded injectors, fuel pump etc...it seems to me that a nitrous upgrade would be a great addition and really make the difference I am looking for during the hot summer months. The benefit of Northern CA, is that we really get nice cool nights, so it's like driving a different car between the day and night, but with Nitrous it seems like the day won't suck as bad.

There also are some great discussions on the tires/suspension upgrades in this thread. I agree with everyone, weight reduction really makes all the other upgrades all that more effective, but can be tricky to find where to reduce?...but the weight reductions really are noticeable, especially when done on the wheels/tires. If only light wheels weren't so expensive

So, thanks everyone for such great posts on this thread!!!

As much as they do produce some good info sometimes, the post flaming, just get's annoying to read and I think really keeps a lot of people from wanting to contribute on these forums. So I am with fr8tdog lets and pretend like we are having these discussions on a bar stool or standing around our cars in the garage...it's all for fun in the end. Just my two cents...
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  #43  
Old 11-07-2009, 12:33 PM
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Palantirion Palantirion is offline
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Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
I will be installing the new ESS V3 supercharger as soon as it's available for purchase My question....does anyone have first hand experience or knowledge of tires that will be better suited for this kind of massive power as opposed to my Sumitomo 255/40 ZR18's? I currently use a 75 shot of nitrous with a window switch and my current tires hook fairly well...as in 0 to 60 in 4.2 secs. well With a 600 hp supercharger I'm going to need bigger and better tires. Any input from those who have upgraded their tires would be greatly appreciated. Street tires that is...

Joe
-I'm not going to comment on what nitrous will change with respect to launching the Z4 M, but the extra power from the supercharger shouldn't be an issue. With my 500hp CFR500 and 275/35R18 NT-01s I have more traction than I need at launch - I need to clutch-drop at 3k RPM or higher to get any significant wheel slip. I find that the power from the supercharger ramps up so smoothly and linearly that once it hooks up I am never at a loss for traction. I could daily drive my MC with 700hp AND actually use it, if it came as smoothly and predictably as my current ESS kit

With regard to tires, remember that posted widths are not actual widths and that width isn't as important as the traction of the compound with respect to LONGITUDINAL stress.
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  #44  
Old 11-07-2009, 09:26 PM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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CHARGEDZ, you hit the nail on the head....cheers. By the way, I was born in Santa Rosa,CA and graduated from Sonoma Valley High in 1990
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  #45  
Old 11-07-2009, 09:40 PM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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Palantirion,

Thanks for the input regarding traction with your sweet! CFR kit...that has a nice tq curve. It gives me an abstract, but useable view of what to expect from the VT3, which is supposed to be about 675hp at the crank and around 620 at the wheels. I think the tq will be a little over 400. Linear power from the ESS supercharger is what I think makes the difference for useable power Nitrous...a little more tricky, but if setup and used correctly is a lot of fun!! Out of curioustity, did you ever run stock tires with the CFR kit?? if you did, did you see a big difference when you went to your current set?


Cheers
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  #46  
Old 11-08-2009, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
Palantirion,

Thanks for the input regarding traction with your sweet! CFR kit...that has a nice tq curve. It gives me an abstract, but useable view of what to expect from the VT3, which is supposed to be about 675hp at the crank and around 620 at the wheels. I think the tq will be a little over 400. Linear power from the ESS supercharger is what I think makes the difference for useable power Nitrous...a little more tricky, but if setup and used correctly is a lot of fun!! Out of curioustity, did you ever run stock tires with the CFR kit?? if you did, did you see a big difference when you went to your current set?


Cheers
-I switched to R-comps long before adding the ESS kit. I would think that the CFR500 would still be very drivable with good street tires, but you'd have to pay more attention when driving hard. The limit of traction will be lower with street tires but breakaway will be more progressive than with R-comps.
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  #47  
Old 11-08-2009, 04:16 PM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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PALANTIRION

How do your NT-01's handle in the rain?? You got me thinking seriously about trying those NT-01's out for awhile. What do you run for front tires? Thanks
Joe
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  #48  
Old 11-08-2009, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fr8tdog View Post
PALANTIRION

How do your NT-01's handle in the rain?? You got me thinking seriously about trying those NT-01's out for awhile. What do you run for front tires? Thanks
Joe
-I don't know yet...it hasn't rained enough since I've owned them During some light sprinkles I took the MC out, but there was no change in traction and the ground was only damp. I went through a large puddle on the 101 in LA with dry roads all around it (broken sprinkler) and the car shuffled a bit as the tires entered/left the puddle. I corrected with the wheel and got a certain pucker factor, but looking back on it the car was more settled than I thought at the time. And the tires didn't hydroplane, they dug into the puddle.

The RA-1s that I had before were fine in the rain - even when totally bald. I suspect that running more camber than stock helped quite a bit (-2.0 or so), as the flat face of the contact patch would meet standing water at an angle. The RA-1s were totally safe for normal driving, as long as I was respectful of the conditions. When I was less respectful things got fun But seriously, the only noticeable traction loss under "normal" driving was longitudinal traction at low speed (IE: leaving a stop) with too much gas. Braking was not effected to a noticeable degree. Hopefully we'll get some real rain here soon and I'll be able to report on the NT-01s.
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  #49  
Old 12-24-2009, 06:40 PM
krnnerdboy krnnerdboy is offline
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just thought I'd drop in b/c this thread has the most z4m's w/ nitrous ever!! I actually thought I was the only one w/ it The super charger does seem promising, but from what I've seen on the e46 m3's it should only trap around 115 if your lucky in the 1/4, which is still behind a stock ls3 c6 let alone a full bolton 335i. If this kit put me into 120mph I would consider it or I'm going to concentrate on just weight loss...

W/ 80lbs deleted through my odyssey battery and muffler deletes I hit a 4.2 second 0-60 on craptastic dunlop direzzas (non star spec) and hit the 1/8th at 85 and 8.5 consistently w/ a 60' time of 2.001 the 1/4 mile calculated out to about 13.1 at 107-8 ...unfortunately I removed my zex kit b4 I got interested in drags and put it in my truck I think it's going to go back in my M after this thread!!
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  #50  
Old 12-26-2009, 09:16 AM
fr8tdog fr8tdog is offline
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Nice to see another Z4M nitrous guy I should have my nitto 555r drag radials on next week. I'm currently doing some custom gauge work as well. When it's finished, I'll do some 0 to 60 times with the new tires and 75 shot....should be interesting. The ESS VT3 should be around 675 bhp and 420tq..... with drag radials in the 285 size should make for a very very quick car. Throw a reduced 50 shot of nitrous on top of that, I don't think low 12's would be impossible. Of course, won't know until I try. As long as the traction is there, 700+hp should bring some impressive 1/4 et's for the Z4M..can't wait!! Hopefully the kit will be ready sometime in the early part of next year There are a few e46 guys with HPF kits making 11 in the 1/4. Breaking 11 is another story...haven't heard much about that.
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