Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > 5 Series DIY

5 Series DIY
Knowledge Is Power! ~ The place for do-it-yourself threads on a variety of topics. Start a thread describing a particular job (oil change, cooling system overhaul, brakes, shocks and springs, etc.) or search for one you need help with!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-26-2015, 11:07 AM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
Registered User
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 79
Mein Auto: E60
DIY - E60 NBT retrofit diversity antenna

As some of you may know, there is a difference between MASK/CHAMP/CCC/CIC antenna configuration and NBT antenna configuration. MASK, CHAMP, CCC and CIC use antenna diversity. There is a powered (using RAD_ON signal from headunit) antenna amp on the right side of the rear window. The antenna amp switches between antennas using a rectangular voltage spike signal from the headunit. In this setup the headunit receives the signal from just one antenna at any given time, but can switch between them on demand.

With NBT the setup is different. NBT receives signals from two separate antennas simultaneously and uses digital signal processing to filter out noise and amplify the radio signal using the phase difference of the antenna signals.
Refer to the picture below. On the left side is the MASK/CHAMP/CCC/CIC setup. On the right side is NBT setup.


Since NBT is not capable of sending the 'switch antenna' signal to antenna amp, retrofitted NBT in a car with legacy antenna amp setup will only use the default, FM1 antenna for all radio reception (if the retrofit adapter provides RAD_ON signal, or if power for antenna amp is taken elsewhere - NBT does not have analog RAD_ON).

This means that unless the antenna amp is modified, NBT will have the worse reception of radio including traffic info than the headunit that is being replaced.

Luckily there is a fix for this. One needs to retrofit the correct diversity antenna amp system into the car.

I will be showing the example for US market E60. For other markets refer to WDS and Rheingold schematics.

First of all, let's have a look at E60 antenna amp. It is located under the headliner on the right side of rear window. It uses spring contacts to connect to the leads of the antennas in the rear window. It is used for both radio and remote lock/unlock. We have to keep it at least partially functional for remote lock/unlock to work, but we will need to modify the radio part.


I'll be using F30 diversity antenna amp for this DIY. The reason for choosing F30 amp is its' small size and independance from remote central lock antennas.

You would need the version for NBT-equipped F30. It does not have RAD_ON signal (at least in US version) and has diverisy antenna output (two or more FAKRAs, depending on the market).


The part number for the US antenna amp is 65209231178

Now comes the fun part. We need to modify E60 amp to pass the radio signals from antennas to F30 amp.

First we need to figure out the antenna lead relation to actual antennas in the rear window.

For E60 it is below:


For F30 the setup is less complicated:



As you may have noticed, the FM2 and FM3 antenna locations on E60 closely resemple the position of FM1 and FM2 antennas on F30 and cover the majority of the surface of the rear window, providing maximum antenna coverage, but maintaining phase difference.

We need to connect disconnect the signals from AM, FM2 and FM3 antennas on E60 from stock amp and route them into F30 amp.

If we start counting from E60 fakra connector, AM is the second spring contact. FM2 and FM3 are first and fifth from FAKRA.

On F30 amp side we an use the following pinout. Disregard RAD_ON, it's not present. For US we need to connect FM1, FM2 and AM to leads 2, 4 and 5 on 6-pin connector. If your F30 amp came without a connectorm you'll need part 61136909058 for connector housing and three standard BMW bushing contact leads.


You'll need to open the E60 amp, disconnect the SMDs that connect to spring contacts (I've soldered them vertically so that the change is reversible, but it is not necessary). For FM there are 2 SMDs that need to be disconnected. For AM there is just one.
Now solder the leads going to F30 amp in place of SMDs (to pads that connect to spring contacts) and route the wires through the recesses in the PCB separating the amp sections. Make sure the leads are facing the front of the car with the amp installed, otherwise they will be visible from the rear window.





Put everything back together. Use 3m tape to tape F30 amp somewhere above headliner.

Connect the black radio FAKRA to black connector on NBT and F30 amp. Run another FAKRA wire from F30 amp to NBT and connect it to the second connector on both sides (white on NBT, pale green-ish on F30 amp).

Enjoy perfect radio reception with retrofitted NBT. Your radio traffic reception will also improve, as well as IBOC signal strength in US. You'll also note that there will be no antenna-related errors in NBT.


PS. Since we did not touch the remaining two FM antennas on E60 antenna amp, it is still functional for FM, so if you are installing NBT retrofit in multiple steps, you can use the modified E60 antenna with your old MASK/CHAMP/CCC/CIC and it will still work for FM.

Last edited by 2real4u; 03-26-2015 at 02:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 09-09-2015, 03:50 AM
byM5 byM5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 17
Mein Auto:
Awesome write up!!!
Can I get part number for the antenna cable?
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-12-2015, 05:34 AM
slumber98 slumber98 is offline
Registered User
Location: Germany
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3
Mein Auto: BMW E92 M3
Nice DIY... :-)
did the f30 antenna amp need no power supply?
where are the three new leads going to? which pins on the F30 amp?
greets
sascha
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-22-2015, 05:13 PM
byM5 byM5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 17
Mein Auto:
Is it possible to retrofit the f30 antenna amp instead of adding?
It seems there is a position for a 3rd antenna output.
Could we retrofit a modded f30 antenna amp which contains an output for remote?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-25-2015, 12:06 PM
slumber98 slumber98 is offline
Registered User
Location: Germany
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 3
Mein Auto: BMW E92 M3
If someone is interest...

i have an F30 amp and an 5m fakra cable to sell... :-)

greets
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-11-2015, 09:40 AM
colpaz colpaz is offline
Registered User
Location: Thunder Bay, ON
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 14
Mein Auto: 2007 Saab 9-5 SportCombi
Slumber - I'm interested - price shipped to Canada P7A 5H9?
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-15-2015, 10:11 AM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
Registered User
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 79
Mein Auto: E60
Quote:
Originally Posted by slumber98 View Post
Nice DIY... :-)
did the f30 antenna amp need no power supply?
where are the three new leads going to? which pins on the F30 amp?
greets
sascha
No external power is needed for US F30 amp - power is supplied by one of FAKRA antenna cables from the head unit.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-15-2015, 10:13 AM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
Registered User
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 79
Mein Auto: E60
Quote:
Originally Posted by byM5 View Post
Is it possible to retrofit the f30 antenna amp instead of adding?
It seems there is a position for a 3rd antenna output.
Could we retrofit a modded f30 antenna amp which contains an output for remote?
F30 antenna amp does not contain FBD (remote) functionality. It is handled by a different part in F30. I have not looked into that because of the way E60 antenna amp is attached to the glass - there is no good alternative way of attaching F30 leads to glass - F30 does not use spring contacts like E60 does.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-15-2015, 10:19 AM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
Registered User
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 79
Mein Auto: E60
Quote:
Originally Posted by byM5 View Post
Awesome write up!!!
Can I get part number for the antenna cable?
Thanks
BMW cables are expensive. I made my own with EBAY FAKRA Z ends and bulk RG174 cable.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 10-20-2015, 01:55 PM
byM5 byM5 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 17
Mein Auto:
Thanks for Info!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-16-2015, 09:00 PM
bzzjh bzzjh is offline
Registered User
Location: China
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 43
Mein Auto: F18
F18 retrofit NBT; I replace the antenna Diversity (include black connector and green-ish connector ),And will connect them to the NBT,But I can still hear the noise, it can not perfectly solve the problem.



65209276095 is my original car module(only balck connector ),

65209257362 is the module I purchased

I do not know why I can not be 100% to the original car radio effect,Can you help me?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1.jpg
Views:	300
Size:	141.0 KB
ID:	538699   Click image for larger version

Name:	2.JPG
Views:	286
Size:	32.5 KB
ID:	538700  

Last edited by bzzjh; 11-16-2015 at 09:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-16-2015, 10:24 PM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
Registered User
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 79
Mein Auto: E60
Quote:
Originally Posted by bzzjh View Post
F18 retrofit NBT; I replace the antenna Diversity (include black connector and green-ish connector ),And will connect them to the NBT,But I can still hear the noise, it can not perfectly solve the problem.



65209276095 is my original car module(only balck connector ),

65209257362 is the module I purchased

I do not know why I can not be 100% to the original car radio effect,Can you help me?
Compare the pinouts of the long black connector on antenna amp for NBT and CIC-equipped cars in Rheingold. Is NBT showing FM antenna errors after clearing errors?
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-17-2015, 04:35 AM
bzzjh bzzjh is offline
Registered User
Location: China
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 43
Mein Auto: F18
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2real4u View Post
Compare the pinouts of the long black connector on antenna amp for NBT and CIC-equipped cars in Rheingold. Is NBT showing FM antenna errors after clearing errors?
Hi,2real4u
Thanks your reply,I have no this program of Rheingold in my PC,but i know that this program requires a high-performance computer,My computer may not be able to install it,If you can, can you help me to query it ? thank you very much.

PS:NBT has no any errors
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-17-2015, 05:26 AM
2real4u 2real4u is offline
Registered User
Location: Chicago
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 79
Mein Auto: E60
One of my PCs running Rheingold is a 10-yo laptop with Windows XP, so I'm not sure where did you get an idea about hight requirements. You may be confusing it with ISTA/P.
If you can give me two F18 VINs - one with CIC from factory and another with NBT from factory, I can compare the schematics.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-17-2015, 04:50 PM
bzzjh bzzjh is offline
Registered User
Location: China
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 43
Mein Auto: F18
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2real4u View Post
One of my PCs running Rheingold is a 10-yo laptop with Windows XP, so I'm not sure where did you get an idea about hight requirements. You may be confusing it with ISTA/P.
If you can give me two F18 VINs - one with CIC from factory and another with NBT from factory, I can compare the schematics.
Hi,2real4u

Thanks your help,

VIN: SH11615 (CIC)
VIN: SM07743(NBT)
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 11-19-2015, 06:40 PM
bzzjh bzzjh is offline
Registered User
Location: China
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 43
Mein Auto: F18
Hi,2real4u
I have installed Rheingold 3.51.13, but I can not find the difference between them from schematics, can you help me?

Last edited by bzzjh; 11-19-2015 at 06:43 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-04-2015, 06:08 PM
bzzjh bzzjh is offline
Registered User
Location: China
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 43
Mein Auto: F18
I still have not found a way to solve the problem of radio noise,please help! thanks
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-16-2016, 09:17 AM
hyri hyri is offline
Registered User
Location: Slovakia
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 7
Mein Auto: 525d E60 LCI
E61

hello, thank you for nice writeup, do you also know where to connect pins in E61 ?


thank you
Reply With Quote
Reply

See More Related BMW Stories


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > 5 Series > 5 Series DIY
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2015 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms