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7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - current)
The new re-designed 7 series F01 / F02 leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code!

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  #26  
Old 11-26-2009, 08:36 PM
bcool bcool is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avalys View Post
Dude - did you buy your car to drive it, or did you buy it because you liked the idea of owning the flagship BMW, festooned with a bunch of electronic doodads that you thought non-7 owners wouldn't get to appreciate?

Who gives a **** if people who buy the 5 get to look at the same instrument panel as you? Does that suddenly make your car any different? The handling less precise, the engine not as smooth, the headlights dimmer, the seats less comfortable? No! Drive your car, and enjoy it, and forget about whether the next guy to walk into the dealer gets more gadgets than you.
Wouldn't want to pay double $$ for a NEW Porshce 911 if they make a new version Boxter goes just as fast and handles the same, and worse... looks the same and introduce that Boxter 6 months afterwards.
Regardless, 7 series IS the flagship period OF BMW. It is suppose to be premium NOT same or substandard.

Last edited by bcool; 11-29-2009 at 12:03 AM.
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  #27  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bcool View Post
Wouldn't want to pay double $$ for a Porshce 911 if they make a new version Boxter goes just as fast and handles the same, and worse... looks the same.
Regardless, 7 series IS the flagship period. It is suppose to be premium NOT same or substandard.
The 7 is bigger, that's why it costs more money. And you're comparing next year's 5 series with the current year's 7 series. I'm sure the 2011 7 will have all the same useless gadgets as the 2011 5.

Man, I can't wait until the mid-cycle facelift of the F01. "How dare BMW release an updated model! I paid for the flagship! It's premium! It should be better than all their other cars, always!"
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  #28  
Old 11-27-2009, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avalys View Post
The 7 is bigger, that's why it costs more money. And you're comparing next year's 5 series with the current year's 7 series. I'm sure the 2011 7 will have all the same useless gadgets as the 2011 5.

Man, I can't wait until the mid-cycle facelift of the F01. "How dare BMW release an updated model! I paid for the flagship! It's premium! It should be better than all their other cars, always!"
Not trying to debate with you my friend. The 5 series is now going to be 193 inches in lenth http://www.likecool.com/2011_BMW_5_S...oupe--Car.html . That is only 6 inches in difference from the 7 flagship. The 5 series will look like a replica of the 7.
But anyways, this part of the BMW forum is for the new 7....and also please forgive us for making comments that I think are very valid.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2009, 12:05 AM
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I can definitely see why you guys are upset. The new 5 has more impressive features that are bound to make others jealous. It's hard to be the flagship model and be missing the cool new innovative features. And wasn't the F01 just released this year? That's lame. F01 buyers are already left behind and their cars probably still smell like new.

And the new 5 looks great. The 7 looks bland, flat by comparison. The 7 also has an odd air dam design that doesn't quite look right. The designers of the 5 got it right, and everything comes together smoothly in the front.

5 > 7 who knew
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  #30  
Old 11-28-2009, 04:59 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by bcool View Post
Regardless, 7 series IS the flagship period. It is suppose to be premium NOT same or substandard.
Wouldn't that be the Rolls Royce Ghost?
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  #31  
Old 11-28-2009, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Wouldn't that be the Rolls Royce Ghost?
Flagship of BMW
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  #32  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:40 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by bcool View Post
Flagship of BMW
The Ghost is based on the F01. The 7er will never be as good as the Ghost, otherwise no one would buy it. Just like the Audi R8 cannot be better than the Lamborghini Gallardo.
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  #33  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:55 PM
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Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
The Ghost is based on the F01. The 7er will never be as good as the Ghost, otherwise no one would buy it. Just like the Audi R8 cannot be better than the Lamborghini Gallardo.
For clarifcations: Flagship of BMW does NOT imply flagship of all cars. No one is claiming 7 is better than the Ghost.
The whole beef that all the boys have is that 5 series is not suppose to be same/better than the 7. I have had numerous 7series as well as 5 series since the early 90's. Never EVER was the 5 series comparable in technology/options...the 7 always had many toys over and beyond the 5. We are NOT dissing you guys that are 5 series owners. So please DO NOT get offended in any personal way. We are just scratching our heads wondering BMW's approach to this.
I have had few S class and E class and same thing always applied.

Last edited by bcool; 11-29-2009 at 12:10 AM.
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  #34  
Old 11-29-2009, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bcool View Post
I have had few S class and E class and same thing always applied.
Are you saying that the new E class does not have any new toys that the S class does not have?
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  #35  
Old 11-29-2009, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by LovinM6 View Post
Are you saying that the new E class does not have any new toys that the S class does not have?
Actually the new E class that just came out has fair amount of the toys as the S class but it by no means a mirror image of the S. Regardless, the S class is a completely different car then the E. When you drive both you will know what I mean.
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  #36  
Old 11-29-2009, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by LovinM6 View Post
Are you saying that the new E class does not have any new toys that the S class does not have?
Yes, for one, The E can only be had with Airmatic Suspension whereas the S class has Active Body Control Suspension with Crosswind Stabilization=Dynamic Drive.

The E has fewer gadgets than the S, u cannot option it out with more stuff than an S.
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  #37  
Old 11-29-2009, 07:57 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by bcool View Post
I have had numerous 7series as well as 5 series since the early 90's. Never EVER was the 5 series comparable in technology/options...the 7 always had many toys over and beyond the 5. We are NOT dissing you guys that are 5 series owners. So please DO NOT get offended in any personal way. We are just scratching our heads wondering BMW's approach to this.
What about the early 90s E32 and E34? Weren't they very similar? I believe they also shared the same platform (before it was called platform sharing). The differences, from memory, were rear electric seats, self levelling rear, and that's about it? The E38 and E39 also had similar fruit, though I believe their platforms were different. The E65 and E60 I think were more different - a lot to do with the backlash from the media for the E65? Also, doesn't the F01 have rear individual comfort seats, electric rear side window blinds, separate climate air, rear iDrive controls, rear self levelling suspension. Not exactly a bare cupboard. Perhaps the real beef will be the closer styling between the cars, and larger size of the 5er.

Why is BMW doing this? Costs - look at the P/L. BMW looks to be standardizing with 2 platforms across their entire lines. X5/X6/5/6/7 as one platform. X1/X3/1/3/Z4 for the other platform. So in terms of bang for the buck, get a 1er or 5er. Anything else, and you are arguably getting less for your dollar/euro.

Why would 5er owners be offended? I personally am not. Some think the styling is a little too conservative - other than that - we all can't wait for the car to arrive! I honestly was considering the F01 (and F10) - but unless the F01 lease rates drop considerably - say 30% - the F10 will really fit my needs 95% of the time. It's tough to justify the extra spend for those other 5% of the time.
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  #38  
Old 11-29-2009, 08:46 PM
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Are any of you aware the new 5er is not out yet and is not slated to be in dealer showrooms until June 2010?
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  #39  
Old 11-29-2009, 09:17 PM
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Are any of you aware the new 5er is not out yet and is not slated to be in dealer showrooms until June 2010?
It was unveiled on 23 November. It's out. Any more, and it would be "far out".
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  #40  
Old 11-30-2009, 01:27 PM
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When E60 5 series came out, BMW gave them active steering, head up display, and dynamic headlights with cornering function that wasn't available to the E65 at that time, some features even never made it to the E65 7 series. But at least the styling is different, and the interior styling was still exclusive to the E65 7 series. No other series shared the same interior styling as the 7.

When W212 E-class came out, the styling is totally different than the W221 S-class, exterior and interior wise. The E-class is using conventional instrument cluster as opposed to the S-class' LCD panel. So while you can get night vision with the E-class, if you want the image to be projected in the instrument cluster rather than in the center COMAND screen, you have to buy an S-class.

And now the F10. IMO, the exterior styling is different. Yes it does have some similarities, but I'm sure car enthusiasts will notice the difference.
The interior is the most disappointing part, it seemed like BMW interior designers got lazy.. just copy and paste.. tweak this and that just a little bit.. and our job is done!
Features and technological stuff can be added in midlife refresh, they could even make the facelifted F01/02 drives itself for what its worth, but its highly unlikely they will give a brand new interior styling.

As for RR Ghost, it's completely different case. Ghost may have been based on F01, share parts with F01, but it looks totally different than F01. They even "polish" the shared interior parts to make them looks more luxurious than the BMW parts.
Rolls Royce, and other super luxury (or even supercars) brands always have the reputation of selling cars with super high price with minimal toys.
What they sell is exclusivity of the brand, super high quality material (exotic wood, hand-stitched upholstery, etc), and driving experience (for supercars).
They can make the F01 better, and people will still buy the Ghost. Example would be VW Phaeton and Bentley Continentals. VW Phaeton sales was so low it has to be pulled out of North American market. Yet it's easier to find Bentley Continentals on the road than VW Phaeton.

Last edited by PowerTech; 11-30-2009 at 01:30 PM.
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  #41  
Old 11-30-2009, 01:48 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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Originally Posted by PowerTech View Post
The interior is the most disappointing part, it seemed like BMW interior designers got lazy.. just copy and paste.. tweak this and that just a little bit.. and our job is done!
I agree with this statement. This however has been the norm more than the exception. The exception being E60/E65.

If you go back to the E32/E34, E38/E39 - and dare I say before that - the 5er and 7er interiors generally looked stylistically similar. The E60/E65 I guess could have been the mould breaker...

I think VW Group is the best auto manufacturer at distinguishing cars that share the same platform most efficiently, whilst maintaining differing personalities in the customers' eyes. And now they've also got Porsche.
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  #42  
Old 12-01-2009, 05:20 AM
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Interesting article for next gen iDrive

http://www.bimmerfile.com/2009/09/30...-infotainment/
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  #43  
Old 12-01-2009, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
It was unveiled on 23 November. It's out. Any more, and it would be "far out".
It is "far out". It will be June 2010 before any consumers in the U.S. will be driving one and just a few months after that the 2011 7er will be on the road and who knows what little goodies BMW might add to it.
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Last edited by tturedraider; 12-01-2009 at 12:36 PM.
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  #44  
Old 12-01-2009, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
It will be June 2010 before anyone in the U.S. will be driving one
Not exactly true. The auto trade reviews, internal Sales drives, training, Roundel drives, previews etc. will all happen quickly after the New Year. Festers will have access to these. These are good reviews of the car - and likely less biased. You can also draw initial conclusions based on the 5GT and F01, since they all share the same platform and technology.

However, if you only value your own individual experience - yes, June 2010 is when you will be satisfied.
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  #45  
Old 12-01-2009, 12:37 PM
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^^ fixed it for ya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Not exactly true. The auto trade reviews, internal Sales drives, training, Roundel drives, previews etc. will all happen quickly after the New Year. Festers will have access to these. These are good reviews of the car - and likely less biased. You can also draw initial conclusions based on the 5GT and F01, since they all share the same platform and technology.

However, if you only value your own individual experience - yes, June 2010 is when you will be satisfied.
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  #46  
Old 12-02-2009, 01:42 PM
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I think a lot of people here are jumping the gun. Having a lot of first hand experience with F01/F02 and F07. I have probably driven F07 (5 GT) about as many miles as anyone outside of BMW (several thousand miles) and can say that there are definite differences in build quality.

The sculpted wood door handles and the dash integration on the 7 are a step above- as is the use of higher quality leather as standard. The carpet is a higher grade, and the rear seats are of a better finish in F01/02. The air vents on the 7 are also of higher quality and feature a diffuser function for low draft. Buttons are better and many other little things.

The GT and 5 will have leather seating surfaces-the doors, side of seat etc. are NOT leather but a high grade leatherette unless you opt for the expensive adder package. The GT also has a different dash though in photos they look the same- also on the sides of the screen is a plastic housing and it is not as nicely finished/integrated on the 7.

The GT is one step down from this point of view of the 7 but has several plusses in my mind as well- they continued the two-tone and wood inlay on the interior B-Pillar which is nice and of course the LED angel eyes.

The LED angel eyes were not perfected until after the 7 came to market and is why they were not included- they will be in the LCI. The Sat maps is for the same reason (but can be updated).

The 5 will also feature less in terms of the quality little things, door pulls, buttons, vents and dash will be more similar to the GT than the 7. The 5 has a greater driver oriented dash so it is not comparable to the 7. Things may look the same but they are not in feel and function.

The technology is the new generation of BMW components and was never meant to be exclusive to the 7- the black LCD screens and gauges were intended to be used from model to model to save on R&D and for greater economies of scale. The 5 will not have NAV standard and use a different screen than the 7 in this case. The park system may come to the 7 the next model year (also a work in progress).

Also worth noting is that things standard on the 7 will be options on the 5- auto dimming mirrors, folding seats, Xenons, leather, illuminated door sills, etc. A fully loaded 5 will still be less than a 7 but at the same time the 7 has better quality materials throughout.

BMW made them look similar but they are in no way the same. Take my word for it, the 7 is still the executive prestige car and the way it moves says that even more than the material quality- the difference in the drive is something hard to explain.

The difference in the 5 to the 5 GT to 7 is like going from the 750 to the 760- there are incremental changes and an increase in the quality of materials used. Spend time sitting, touching and feeling the little things and you will understand that there is more than meets the eye- like a Zegna suit vs. a Jos. A. Banks one, a Glashutte Original vs. a Movado- you can tell there is a difference by the touch, feel and assembly- the 7 is no different when compared to its siblings!

I will be doing a full comparison of these models soon but until then I hope my commentary helps a bit.



-M
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  #47  
Old 12-02-2009, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul View Post
I think a lot of people here are jumping the gun. Having a lot of first hand experience with F01/F02 and F07. I have probably driven F07 (5 GT) about as many miles as anyone outside of BMW (several thousand miles) and can say that there are definite differences in build quality.

The sculpted wood door handles and the dash integration on the 7 are a step above- as is the use of higher quality leather as standard. The carpet is a higher grade, and the rear seats are of a better finish in F01/02. The air vents on the 7 are also of higher quality and feature a diffuser function for low draft. Buttons are better and many other little things.

The GT and 5 will have leather seating surfaces-the doors, side of seat etc. are NOT leather but a high grade leatherette unless you opt for the expensive adder package. The GT also has a different dash though in photos they look the same- also on the sides of the screen is a plastic housing and it is not as nicely finished/integrated on the 7.

The GT is one step down from this point of view of the 7 but has several plusses in my mind as well- they continued the two-tone and wood inlay on the interior B-Pillar which is nice and of course the LED angel eyes.

The LED angel eyes were not perfected until after the 7 came to market and is why they were not included- they will be in the LCI. The Sat maps is for the same reason (but can be updated).

The 5 will also feature less in terms of the quality little things, door pulls, buttons, vents and dash will be more similar to the GT than the 7. The 5 has a greater driver oriented dash so it is not comparable to the 7. Things may look the same but they are not in feel and function.

The technology is the new generation of BMW components and was never meant to be exclusive to the 7- the black LCD screens and gauges were intended to be used from model to model to save on R&D and for greater economies of scale. The 5 will not have NAV standard and use a different screen than the 7 in this case. The park system may come to the 7 the next model year (also a work in progress).

Also worth noting is that things standard on the 7 will be options on the 5- auto dimming mirrors, folding seats, Xenons, leather, illuminated door sills, etc. A fully loaded 5 will still be less than a 7 but at the same time the 7 has better quality materials throughout.

BMW made them look similar but they are in no way the same. Take my word for it, the 7 is still the executive prestige car and the way it moves says that even more than the material quality- the difference in the drive is something hard to explain.

The difference in the 5 to the 5 GT to 7 is like going from the 750 to the 760- there are incremental changes and an increase in the quality of materials used. Spend time sitting, touching and feeling the little things and you will understand that there is more than meets the eye- like a Zegna suit vs. a Jos. A. Banks one, a Glashutte Original vs. a Movado- you can tell there is a difference by the touch, feel and assembly- the 7 is no different when compared to its siblings!

I will be doing a full comparison of these models soon but until then I hope my commentary helps a bit.



-M
Thanks so much for taking the time to post this. Much appreciated indeed. Makes a LOT of sense b/c I did have 5 series and 7 series at same time and at NO time whatsoever did I feel they were in the same category/class.
Look for fwd to your full comparison soon!!
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  #48  
Old 12-03-2009, 07:21 AM
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Thanks so much for taking the time to post this. Much appreciated indeed. Makes a LOT of sense b/c I did have 5 series and 7 series at same time and at NO time whatsoever did I feel they were in the same category/class.
Look for fwd to your full comparison soon!!
Agreed. I hadn't previously considered the superior finishings and materials of the 750i when begining the process of deciding between a new F01 or a new F10 to replace my current 535. I still have concerns that at a macro level the new 550 will siphon off sales from the 750i but I'm personally going to take a very long, hard look at both cars before signing on the dotted line.

In any case, there's no question my next car will be a BMW since both the 550 and 750 are so superior to the competing models from Audi/Mercedes/Lexus/Jaguar.
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Waiting on the F10 M5. Though I could be tempted with a B7.
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  #49  
Old 12-03-2009, 01:43 PM
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mapezzul mapezzul is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleepTight View Post
Agreed. I hadn't previously considered the superior finishings and materials of the 750i when begining the process of deciding between a new F01 or a new F10 to replace my current 535. I still have concerns that at a macro level the new 550 will siphon off sales from the 750i but I'm personally going to take a very long, hard look at both cars before signing on the dotted line.

In any case, there's no question my next car will be a BMW since both the 550 and 750 are so superior to the competing models from Audi/Mercedes/Lexus/Jaguar.
Also worth noting is that the 550 will be available with xDrive next fall. The 5 will also have a different drive and "feel" than the 7. This is going to be an interesting time for BMW. I also can't wait for this new X3 to finally break cover as it is based on the next generation 3er....

-M
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Old 12-05-2009, 05:21 PM
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Since we're on the subject of the new 5er i thought i'll throw in the next generation 3 series.

The next gen BMW 3-series will be the first of a family of BMW cars with a more recognizable face derived from the original styling of the Shanghai concept

With the new 3-series, designers will attempt to address criticisms of the current cars awkward styling and lack of interior space. These renderings, compiled using information from sources close to the project show that the new car will have a pronounced kidney-grille with the air-intakes positioned on either side of the bumper just below the headlights.

New options for the 2012 3-series will include hybrid variants as well as the latest version of BMWs Efficient Dynamics. The xDrive AWD system is likely to gain favor thanks to a redesign of the system to reduce weight, which will only increase fuel consumption by 0.5L per 62 miles over RWD models.

Other features that may make it to production include night-vision devices, heads-up display and radar safety systems


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