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E36/7 Z3 (1996-2002)
E36/7 Z3 Roadster, Z3 coupe, Z3 M Roadster and Z3 M Coupe talk with our gurus here.

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  #1  
Old 11-28-2009, 07:27 AM
aba4430 aba4430 is offline
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Post Transmission Fluid Question - 98 Z3, 2.8, Manual

Folks,

On Thursday, I changed the rear differential fluid on my new to me (< 2 months, with @43K miles) Z3 with Mobil 1 75-140LS. Everything went well using my newly acquired cheap HF hex bit socket set. I did have to drop the spare carrier and remove tire tray to get the fill plug back on. There is lots of room after doing this. Went for a drive to warm up the tranny fluid (see below) and noted no issues.

After returning, I drained the tranny fluid and of course auto tranny fluid came out. I was expecting this based on a service receipt I have for the car from 03/2005, performed ~30.6 K miles. The tranny has a yellow sticker with MTF-LT1 fluid spec'd. I bought the Bentley manual (96 to 98, the older version) from the PO and the manual specifies the use of ATF. So some confusion with all this. However, MTF-LT1 (since superceded by MTF-LT2 or even 3 - not sure if 3 is an even replacement) is hypoid gear oil and I am intending on using Mobil 1 75 - 90 gear oil. I could not get the gear oil filled due to lack of clearance and suitable filler tubing/pump, so my car is still off the garage floor on 4 ramps. Yesterday, I went and bought a lube pump and will take care of the tranny fluid fill today.

My question is whether I need to perform any special flushing of the auto fluid residual from the tranny since I am changing to gear oil? I was going to run the Mobil 1 gear oil until my next oil change (~3.5 K miles left) and then replace it again. Is this going to be overkill or should this be sufficient, or should I replace the tranny fluid sooner to get an adequate flush?

Thanks for some feedback on this.

Regards,

aba4430
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2009, 08:04 AM
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Randy Forbes Randy Forbes is offline
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I wouldn't put hypoid gear oil in your transmission; stick with either ATF or MTF-LT2.

This is the sticker from a 2.8 Rdstr I recently did shift pins and a fluid change on.

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  #3  
Old 11-28-2009, 09:17 AM
aba4430 aba4430 is offline
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Hello Randy,
Thanks for the reply. Now I am more confused. My sticker states MTF-LT1 (yellow). In fact Pentosin MTF (MTL-LT2) is GL4/5 hypoid gear oil. The label you have above, was it from an auto or manual tranny (please note, mine is a manual)? I need to get this right, do not want to screw up anything.
Thanks in advance for any more advice and/or discussion.
aba4430
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  #4  
Old 11-28-2009, 10:24 AM
Z3SteveJ Z3SteveJ is offline
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I used Redline D4 in my manual transmission on the recommendation of a salesperson at Bavarian Autosport a couple of years ago. On the bottle, it said that it was recommended for both automatic and manual transmissions. I noticed an improvement in shifting feel after the change. The factory fill was in the transmission of my 2002 2.5 before the change.
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  #5  
Old 11-28-2009, 11:15 AM
Ron Stygar's Avatar
Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aba4430 View Post
Hello Randy,
Thanks for the reply. Now I am more confused. My sticker states MTF-LT1 (yellow). In fact Pentosin MTF (MTL-LT2) is GL4/5 hypoid gear oil. The label you have above, was it from an auto or manual tranny (please note, mine is a manual)? I need to get this right, do not want to screw up anything.
Thanks in advance for any more advice and/or discussion.
aba4430
Is that the same of what Castrol BMW (MTL-MT2) uses?

D. From model year 1998 (9/97 production) all manual transmissions are filled with Esso/Exxon “MTF-LT-1” long-term
fluid.
A yellow label with the letters “MTF-LT-1” is located next to the oil filler plug.

No oil change is required for the entire service life of these transmissions.
In the event of a repair, the transmission must only be filled with the long-term oil.
Esso/Exxon MTF-LT-1
BMW P/N 83 22 9 408 942.
E. From model year 2004 some manual transmissions are filled with Castrol “MTF-LT-2” long-term fluid. This fluid has the
same properties as the “MTF-LT-1” fluid indicated above in section D. The “MTF-LT-1” fluid may be mixed and/or
substituted for the “MTF-LT-2” manual transmission fluid.
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2009, 12:39 PM
aba4430 aba4430 is offline
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Hello Ron,

The VIN on my Z3 is LC13846 with a build date of 03/98. The tranny sticker is yellow and specifies MTF-LT1. As in your reference above, MTF-LT2 is interchangeable with MTF-LT1. My tranny according to the Bentley manual is a ZF S5D 310Z. The code on the left side of the bellhousing is BMW 1.222.7-1.9, .13 226. There are some numbers at the bottom of the bellhousing and these are: 0681824 HMW. I came across this ZF article, but cannot seem to cross reference my tranny:

http://www01apps.zf.com/kst464/ZF_In...011_en0700.pdf

This is a link to the Pentosin fluids guide. You will note that the MTF-LT2 or MTF is a GL4/5 gear oil.

http://www.crpindustries.com/pentosi..._CRP_r5WEB.pdf

I am not sure whether the Pentosin is equivalent to the Castrol BMW MTL-MT2.

Thanks,

aba4430
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2009, 01:48 PM
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Ron Stygar Ron Stygar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aba4430 View Post
Hello Ron,

My tranny according to the Bentley manual is a ZF S5D 310Z.
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...21&hg=23&fg=05

I use BMW MTF-LT2 in tranny and SAF-XJ in diff.
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2009, 02:57 PM
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Randy Forbes Randy Forbes is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aba4430 View Post
Hello Randy,
Thanks for the reply. Now I am more confused. My sticker states MTF-LT1 (yellow). In fact Pentosin MTF (MTL-LT2) is GL4/5 hypoid gear oil. The label you have above, was it from an auto or manual tranny (please note, mine is a manual)? I need to get this right, do not want to screw up anything.
Thanks in advance for any more advice and/or discussion.
aba4430
LC05793 build date 05/97. Definitely a manual xmsn:



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1957 Austin-Healey 100/6 Wine Red
1961 McCulloch R1 go-kart Screaming Yellow
1995///M3 Coupe Dakar Yellow Eurosport Twinscrew S/C
1999///M Rdstr Cosmos Black Eurosport Twinscrew S/C
1999///M Coupe Estoril Blue Eurosport Twinscrew S/C
2001///M Rdstr Steel Gray
2011 X5 35i Sport Deep Sea Blue/Cinnamon
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2009, 03:21 PM
aba4430 aba4430 is offline
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Thanks Randy and Ron,
As Ron indicates below, BMW switched their recommendation to the MTF-LT1 for manual transmissions for 1998 (09/97 build) forward. I am going to be adding Mobil 1 75W-90LS and keep an eye out for any anomalies. The gear oil is compatible with the MTF-LT1/2 specification on paper at least. Will provide an update in a few 100 miles.
Best regards,
aba4430
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  #10  
Old 11-29-2009, 06:27 AM
aba4430 aba4430 is offline
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Hello Folks,
I went for a ~25 mile drive (upto 80 mph on VA-288) last night and initial impressions are positive. Specifically I noted the drivetrain related noise level to be lower, the shifts felt more refined, damped and less notchy. What felt like a slight "whine/drone" when driving at @25 constant in third through the neighborhood roads with the previous fluid, appeared much improved. Will continue to watch all this.
Regards,
aba4430
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  #11  
Old 01-16-2014, 11:21 AM
guy10596 guy10596 is online now
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Mein Auto: BMW Z 3 1998
Mobil 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by aba4430 View Post
Thanks Randy and Ron,
As Ron indicates below, BMW switched their recommendation to the MTF-LT1 for manual transmissions for 1998 (09/97 build) forward. I am going to be adding Mobil 1 75W-90LS and keep an eye out for any anomalies. The gear oil is compatible with the MTF-LT1/2 specification on paper at least. Will provide an update in a few 100 miles.
Best regards,
aba4430
so is the mobil 1 safe alternative to use in the standard
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  #12  
Old 01-17-2014, 02:43 AM
aba4430 aba4430 is offline
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Post

I used the Mobil 1 as indicated above, for @3 years and ~15K miles. Though I did not have any issues, I was a bit concerned due to it being a GL-5 spec. gear oil. The manual tranny specifies the use of GL-4 gear oil. In 12/2012, I replaced the Mobil 1 with Pentosin MTF2 fluid. Previously, the Pentosin was advertised as a GL4/5 fluid, but now it only carries the GL4 rating. I have used the Pentosin for ~6K miles now and like it. It is equivalent to the OEM fluid. Alternately, you could consider the OEM fluid.
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-Z3-2.8-...rain/ES197386/
http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-Z3-2.8-...ain/ES1893847/
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Pentosin_MTF-2.pdf (266.4 KB, 18 views)
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  #13  
Old 01-17-2014, 04:51 AM
guy10596 guy10596 is online now
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trans oil BMW Z 3

I have thought about going back to BMW but it is a 60 mile round trip every time i go over there , if i can find the oil you mentioned Pentosin MTF-2 I think i will give it a try thanks
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  #14  
Old 01-17-2014, 12:48 PM
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vintage42 vintage42 is online now
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Mein Auto: 1997 BMW Z3 1.9 5MT
If you don't find Pentosin, Synchromax is more readily available at auto stores, and has the same viscosities:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...6#post23307686
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  #15  
Old 01-17-2014, 03:11 PM
guy10596 guy10596 is online now
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pentosin mtf -2

O,Rileys has it but they where out today so they will have it monday
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  #16  
Old 01-17-2014, 04:05 PM
aba4430 aba4430 is offline
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I special ordered it at o'reillys as well, back in 2012.
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  #17  
Old 01-19-2014, 09:38 AM
guy10596 guy10596 is online now
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shift pins

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy Forbes View Post
I wouldn't put hypoid gear oil in your transmission; stick with either ATF or MTF-LT2.

This is the sticker from a 2.8 Rdstr I recently did shift pins and a fluid change on.

if i need the kit put into my trans what will it cost to have you do this ?
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  #18  
Old 01-20-2014, 10:11 AM
guy10596 guy10596 is online now
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Location: WEST COAST FL
 
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Mein Auto: BMW Z 3 1998
Pentosin MTF -2

Quote:
Originally Posted by aba4430 View Post
Thanks Randy and Ron,
As Ron indicates below, BMW switched their recommendation to the MTF-LT1 for manual transmissions for 1998 (09/97 build) forward. I am going to be adding Mobil 1 75W-90LS and keep an eye out for any anomalies. The gear oil is compatible with the MTF-LT1/2 specification on paper at least. Will provide an update in a few 100 miles.
Best regards,
aba4430
I just drained and put the Pentosin in this morning, My car shifts like new now thanks
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