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7 Series - F01 / F02 (2009 - current)
The new re-designed 7 series F01 / F02 leads off the BMW Fxx chassis code!

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  #176  
Old 09-17-2010, 08:56 PM
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BMR2009 BMR2009 is offline
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Good for you. Post 'em up when you get them. In the meantime, I'll do some checking on the voltage, resistance (ohms) and current.
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Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.
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  #177  
Old 09-17-2010, 08:57 PM
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csmeance csmeance is offline
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have you tried using a Relay wiring kit for the HID kit? That can give you the extra power you need to keep them running and as well keep the computer from thinking that the bulb is out
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  #178  
Old 09-18-2010, 07:23 AM
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BMR2009 BMR2009 is offline
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That got me thinkiing; I wonder if there is a power supply just for each of the bulbs, and a voltage sensor. If there is a voltage sensor, it would make sense that anytime a bulb goes out it sends a message to the ECU, which in terns displays an error message on your cluster. This makes the most sense to me given the sensitivity of this sensor and its ability to trip and shut down the power to the bulb.

Does anyone have an ELECTRICAL SCHEMATIC of the car, or know where to get one?

We could trace the power to the bulbs and see.

My current guess:

(+)--------(ECU)----------(SENSOR)------------(BULB)------------(GROUND)

Suggestion for HID:

(+)---(ECU)--(SENSOR)---(CAPACITOR/RESISTOR)----(POWER TRANSFORMER/BALLAST)-----(BULB)-----(GROUND)

(to trick the sensor) (step-up the voltage for the HID)
(will there be a higher current draw or will the Ballast handle it?)

If I can get a SCHEMATIC I can determine how they've wired the bulbs. You don't want to trick the sensor if there is a high current draw due to the higher demands of the HID (which may very well be met by the ballast--I'm not sure though) or you could melt your wires. The wire is rated for specific current, and you don't want to come close to exceeding it or there WILL be serious problems. However, the kits say they are "plug and play", giving me the impression they HAVE figured this out or there would be car fires everytime someone put an aftermarket system in. So it comes down to the sensor.

I'm going to buy a high-end HID unit that is "SUPPOSEDLY" designed for BMW's and measure the draw on current to determine the ballast's needs.

My guess is when you hooked-up your HID unit to the H8 angel eyes it did what it does to every other bulb that isn't a PHillips, it triped the sensor because it had different voltage/current characteristics than the OEM. I also want to confirm there is not a heat sensor in the area. So I'll keep the bulbs OUT of the housing and see if they trip.

Ok. I couldn't find the darn card reader for my camera so I'll go get one for alll the coming photos. Man, this is pathetic, isn't it.
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2009 750Li
400bhp! Milano/Saddle / Lux seating / camera / prem sound / sports pkg / convenience pkg / rear entertainment / heads-up display / iphone integration / 9.14 ED
Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.

Last edited by BMR2009; 09-18-2010 at 07:26 AM.
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  #179  
Old 09-18-2010, 01:58 PM
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I'm going to break this post into segments as it's going to be a big one and I don't want to lose anything in translation due to the amount of content.

So first I would like to start off with a comparison of three bulbs;
1. OEM

2. PIAA

3. GP Thunders

4. LED's

Comparison will consist of:

A. Color
B. Voltage (force needed to drive the current)
C. Current (Amperes (amps)) how much power flows through the wires due to power demands by the bulbs.
D. H E A T generation, a VERY important factor, believe it or not (measured at the hotest point of the bulb).
E. CODE throwing--will you get an error message.
F. Appearance

TOOLS SHOWN BELOW, excluding my infrared thermometer.

IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!

Note the voltage boost from "OFF" (the Angel Eyes are at their brightest and voltage is at it's highest: over 14 volts) or in "AUTO" versus lights being "ON" where the voltage drops to 12+. That little difference makes a big difference in illumination, surprisingly.
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2009 750Li
400bhp! Milano/Saddle / Lux seating / camera / prem sound / sports pkg / convenience pkg / rear entertainment / heads-up display / iphone integration / 9.14 ED
Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.

Last edited by BMR2009; 09-18-2010 at 03:00 PM.
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  #180  
Old 09-18-2010, 02:00 PM
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BMR2009 BMR2009 is offline
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OEM bulbs, also known as "stock bulbs".

A. COLOR: YELLOW, but very bright due to NO tint on the glass.

B. Voltage: Consistent power is determined by the source which is the ECU and powersupply--see current for power draw.

C. Current: Low

D. Heat: Low (relatively speaking)

E. CODE: NONE

F. Appearance: POOR, or dated.

Photos:

1. OEM to PIAA's
2. Temp for OEM's
3. OEM, PIAA's, Blunders

Note: I have NO affiliation with any bulb company or affiliates, and the opinions are mine alone based upon my experience. The bulbs are hot, electricity present, and risks are involved with tinkering with them that can cause damage and/or injury. I don't recommend it. I'm just not happy with anything the way it is so I mess with it.
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2009 750Li
400bhp! Milano/Saddle / Lux seating / camera / prem sound / sports pkg / convenience pkg / rear entertainment / heads-up display / iphone integration / 9.14 ED
Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.

Last edited by BMR2009; 09-18-2010 at 05:12 PM. Reason: Pics added.
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  #181  
Old 09-18-2010, 02:02 PM
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BMR2009 BMR2009 is offline
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PIAA Bulbs

A. Color: YELLOW WITH BLUE TINT

B. Voltage: Consistent power is determined by the source which is the ECU and powersupply--see current for power draw.

C. Current: Like the OEM's.

D. Heat: Not bad.

E. Code: NONE

F. Appearance: VERY GOOD (not EXCELLENT, 4 on a scale of 5)

NOTE: THE INNER RING'S LUMINOSITY, FOLLOWED AT ABOUT 75% OF THE OUTER RING's. AGAIN, THIS IS ANTICIPATED DUE TO THE BULB's LOCATION WITHIN THE HOUSING, CLOSEST TO THE INNER. THERE IS ENOUGH LUMINOSITY TO COMPLETE, AND FILL THE OUTER RING. PIAA HAS NAILED IT. COLOR IS NOT IDEAL, BUT IT IS THE BEST WHILE CREATING MODERATE HEAT AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, "NO CODE". I AM CONFIDENT THAT ANY PRODUCT PIAA CREATES THAT IS DESIGNED FOR BMW's WILL WORK W/OUT CODING. THEY NEED TO STEP IN AND TAKE CONTROL.
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2009 750Li
400bhp! Milano/Saddle / Lux seating / camera / prem sound / sports pkg / convenience pkg / rear entertainment / heads-up display / iphone integration / 9.14 ED
Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.

Last edited by BMR2009; 09-18-2010 at 05:09 PM.
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  #182  
Old 09-18-2010, 02:02 PM
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GP Thunders

A. Color: ELECTRIC BLUE

B. Voltage: Consistent power is determined by the source which is the ECU and powersupply--see current for power draw.

C. Current: The HIGHEST of the group. Scarey.

D. Heat: 375 Degrees. VERY HOT due to the tint, no doubt. I have taken these off my list and, PERSONALLY, do not recommend using them due to their incredible heat generation (I bake pizza and fish sticks at this temperature). The heat damage may not occur initially, but I can't imagine plastic being exposed to this heat for an extended time without some results.

E. Code: YES--it will throw a code, either now, or in the future (my experience).

F. Appearance: Not bad, but certainly loses some brightness due to the tint.
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2009 750Li
400bhp! Milano/Saddle / Lux seating / camera / prem sound / sports pkg / convenience pkg / rear entertainment / heads-up display / iphone integration / 9.14 ED
Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.

Last edited by BMR2009; 09-18-2010 at 03:25 PM.
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  #183  
Old 09-18-2010, 02:02 PM
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LED's

A. Color: Pretty good blue hue. I like it.

B. Voltage: Consistent power is determined by the source which is the ECU and powersupply--see current for power draw.

C. Current: I could barely get a reading on it as they are incredibly efficient. They use almost no power.

D. Heat: VERY LOW, I could carefully hold it in my hand.

E. Code: YES, once the headlights come on these do code (if yours don't please post manufacturer or photos and source of bulbs)

F. Appearance: Not bad; blue hue with NOT enough power to complete the second halo (remember, any lack of power is demonstrated with an INCOMPLETE second halo).

SECOND TO LAST PHOTO IS CURRENT DRAW...it fluctuated between 0 and .001--insignificant, and this might be why they code; using so little energy the ECU thinks the bulb is dead.
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2009 750Li
400bhp! Milano/Saddle / Lux seating / camera / prem sound / sports pkg / convenience pkg / rear entertainment / heads-up display / iphone integration / 9.14 ED
Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.

Last edited by BMR2009; 09-19-2010 at 07:39 AM.
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  #184  
Old 09-18-2010, 03:48 PM
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So, what do all these numbers lead me to? Well, I was looking for anything that looked unusual in terms of technical measurement that would lead my opinion to one bulb or another, in terms of design.

My conclusions:

1. GP Thunders are EXTREMELY hot, not surprising really when you consider the amount of tint necessary to block the yellow light--more reflection, more heat. Will it cause damage? I don't know, but I don't care to find out, personally. Your call.

2. The OEM's really are efficient, but the color just sucks so it's still on my poop list (no change here, other than I respect their efficiency).

3. There are only two solutions from what I can gather thus far:

- HID, "BUT", temperature measurments need to be made along with current draws to determine their operating variances.

- LED. I believe this IS the answer. The efficiency, the low heat, the long life, the cost, it just makes sense. Now, finding the highest output bulb possible is the key. DO NOT get caught up in more diodes (Light Emitting Diodes) on the light the more light you get--BS! Finding the highest lumin production unit per diode is the key. I have flashlights that have "ONE" LED and it could blind you. So, finding an LED H8 bulb with massive output, not number of LED's, should lead us to an efficient means of accomplishing color (measured in Kelvin of 6000-7000k), low
operating temperature, and great light generation and dispersion throughout the angel eye rings. The "error code" will have to be conquered by using resistors/capacitors (IMO).
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2009 750Li
400bhp! Milano/Saddle / Lux seating / camera / prem sound / sports pkg / convenience pkg / rear entertainment / heads-up display / iphone integration / 9.14 ED
Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.

Last edited by BMR2009; 09-18-2010 at 05:04 PM.
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  #185  
Old 09-18-2010, 03:52 PM
derrick_lui derrick_lui is offline
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WOW....thanks for posting these review BMR2009. If only we could give out rep points...
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  #186  
Old 09-18-2010, 09:59 PM
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No problem.

I believe adding a "Load Resistor" to the lines (positive and negative, prior to the socket, will provide enough resistance to make the ECU believe there is a working bulb present. Otherwise, the bulb uses so little current that it thinks its dead. See E-bay or google for information on this phenomenon. It is quite common apparently. If we can find a bright enough LED bulb, we may be in business.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Alumi...ht_1585wt_1165
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2009 750Li
400bhp! Milano/Saddle / Lux seating / camera / prem sound / sports pkg / convenience pkg / rear entertainment / heads-up display / iphone integration / 9.14 ED
Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.
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  #187  
Old 09-18-2010, 10:52 PM
mbworldz mbworldz is offline
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Yes I did everything but it will only light up when I start the engine. Then is shut off itself.
I think I need to get the hardness to draw power directly from the battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csmeance View Post
have you tried using a Relay wiring kit for the HID kit? That can give you the extra power you need to keep them running and as well keep the computer from thinking that the bulb is out
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  #188  
Old 09-18-2010, 10:58 PM
mbworldz mbworldz is offline
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Amazing write up bill !

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR2009 View Post
No problem.

I believe adding a "Load Resistor" to the lines (positive and negative, prior to the socket, will provide enough resistance to make the ECU believe there is a working bulb present. Otherwise, the bulb uses so little current that it thinks its dead. See E-bay or google for information on this phenomenon. It is quite common apparently. If we can find a bright enough LED bulb, we may be in business.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Alumi...ht_1585wt_1165
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  #189  
Old 09-20-2010, 09:31 AM
slolife slolife is offline
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Has anyone investigated what kind of bulb system is used in the 5 series LED angel eyes?

Seems like a very similar headlight design.
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  #190  
Old 09-20-2010, 10:17 AM
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mbworldz, you need a relay for the angel eye HID kit. The reason your HID's shut down was they were drawing too much power from the battery and the ECU sensed it.

The relay will be wired directly to the battery and one headlight (to trigger the relay), and then to the ballasts.

Relay--------Both ballasts--------HID LIGHT
--------Positive power (battery post)
--------Negative (battery post)
--------Fog light plug/angel eye plug (tells the relay when to power the bulb)

Bypassing the ECU and going directly to the battery for power eliminates this detection and message.

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2009 750Li
400bhp! Milano/Saddle / Lux seating / camera / prem sound / sports pkg / convenience pkg / rear entertainment / heads-up display / iphone integration / 9.14 ED
Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.

Last edited by BMR2009; 09-20-2010 at 10:20 AM.
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  #191  
Old 09-20-2010, 12:47 PM
mbworldz mbworldz is offline
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Bill, Yes. My friend got the relay , wires...etc. We knew that in order to fix that, we need to get power directly from the battery. But the problem is the wire will be obvious and seems like I can't hide them. I am just little worry if I take my car to service, they will see all that wire going through the battery. Will that void my warranty ?

Also remember I told you I put in this LED bulb on my car and it shows Error Code.
The only way to get rid of the error code is Turn off Daytime running light from the settings. So If I want to turn it on, I will do that manually. That will not throw the error code at all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR2009 View Post
mbworldz, you need a relay for the angel eye HID kit. The reason your HID's shut down was they were drawing too much power from the battery and the ECU sensed it.

The relay will be wired directly to the battery and one headlight (to trigger the relay), and then to the ballasts.

Relay--------Both ballasts--------HID LIGHT
--------Positive power (battery post)
--------Negative (battery post)
--------Fog light plug/angel eye plug (tells the relay when to power the bulb)

Bypassing the ECU and going directly to the battery for power eliminates this detection and message.

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  #192  
Old 09-20-2010, 01:00 PM
mbworldz mbworldz is offline
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I think they are totally different just like the 3 series. Cause the owner's manual from our 7 series, it tells you how to change the Daytime Running light bulbs just like "BMR2009" demonstrate how to change the bulb on this thread. But if you look at the owner's manual from the new 5 series. It won't say anything on how to change it. Need to take back to the dealer.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=415604



Quote:
Originally Posted by slolife View Post
Has anyone investigated what kind of bulb system is used in the 5 series LED angel eyes?

Seems like a very similar headlight design.
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  #193  
Old 09-20-2010, 06:47 PM
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Very interesting. You don't need to turn off the day run lights (but that is very strange how the ECU doesn't trip).

You need a load resistor to solve the code problem. You see, they are too efficient, you need to slow down the current so the ECU thinks it's being used. The resistor will accomplish this.
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Last edited by BMR2009; 09-20-2010 at 06:52 PM.
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  #194  
Old 09-20-2010, 06:58 PM
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Wow! Just had to chime in on your not only outstanding "attention to detail" write ups but your continued input to this thread over the span of nearly a year. With solid follow-ups/experience.
Very Well Done!!!

I too have said from the beginning (and want) LED's are the answer! But who has the "correct color, resistance, and of course quality" that can be used?

~ Big Marcus
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  #195  
Old 09-20-2010, 07:49 PM
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We took the looooong way around the horn. Sadly, there aren't any that produce anything material in total lumens. Why they can't use high output LED's like that are installed on my high-end flashlight is a mystery to me. I'll find my flashlight on ebay and show you what I'm talking about.

Took me a minute to reply due to your avatar. Feel free to hijack us with a full sized version.

This 1,000 lumen light will burn a hole in your head. It is the brightest, bluest flashlight I've ever seen. So, put the dang led's (four of them, on an auto bulb). I swear if I figure this out I'm going to make a small fortune. After I get my electrical engineering degree, that is.
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2009 750Li
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Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.

Last edited by BMR2009; 09-20-2010 at 08:02 PM.
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  #196  
Old 09-20-2010, 11:23 PM
mbworldz mbworldz is offline
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Bill, If I leave the Daytime running lights set to Automatic. Every time when I start the car, it turns on itself and throw me the code.

So I just uncheck that box under the settings.

But the funny thing is when I turn it on manually. There is no error code at all. To me thats even better cause I can turn on the Fog and daytime running light without turn on the head lights lol.

But still , it is not bright enough like you said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR2009 View Post
Very interesting. You don't need to turn off the day run lights (but that is very strange how the ECU doesn't trip).

You need a load resistor to solve the code problem. You see, they are too efficient, you need to slow down the current so the ECU thinks it's being used. The resistor will accomplish this.
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  #197  
Old 09-21-2010, 08:53 AM
mbworldz mbworldz is offline
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I also posted it on other bmw forum, this member has a new X5 with the latest LEDs Angel Eyes but unfortunately he doesn't know how to locate the bulb.


***************
Those angel eyes are stock and I don't know what bulbs they are. I'm not even sure where to start to open them up so take a pic. Sorry man and I agree with you about the 7 series coming with those ugly angel eyes :thumbdown
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  #198  
Old 09-21-2010, 11:52 AM
997usa 997usa is offline
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Just found this - http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=292075

Read also the last comment...
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2011 BMW X5 3.5D | Deep Sea Blue/ Cinnamon Dakota / Sport, Premium, Comfort / 20"
2011 BMW 740i | Imperial Blue/ SaddleNappa/Shadowtrim / 19"
2009 Porsche 911 4S | Midnight Blue / Natural Brown / PDK / 19"

Last edited by 997usa; 09-21-2010 at 11:54 AM.
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  #199  
Old 09-21-2010, 04:08 PM
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BMR2009 BMR2009 is offline
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"Maybe someone could re-position the LEDs until they got it pointing at the mirrors so the Halos are lit evenly? " >>last comment<<


If you look carefully at the positioning of the LED's, they are closer to the end of where the bulb would be rather than the base. This is IMPORTANT. Here's why; the neck of the bulb plug is semi-transparent and does NOT offer any (or little) external (halo) luminosity transfer.

You see it is important to put the LED's as far out on the bulb as possible to reach the ring(s) as they are not close to the base. Any LED's close to the base are a waste, and offer little to no light increase.

If you could increase the circumference size to the size of a bulb (or slightly larger) to fit more hi intensity LED's and stack them close, you could effectively light the rings.

The LED's as they are manage about 70% success.
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  #200  
Old 09-21-2010, 05:39 PM
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BMR2009 BMR2009 is offline
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Location: Texas
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
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I just ordered an HID kit from DDM and will experiment with them. They're cheap so if they blow-up, no worries.
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2009 750Li
400bhp! Milano/Saddle / Lux seating / camera / prem sound / sports pkg / convenience pkg / rear entertainment / heads-up display / iphone integration / 9.14 ED
Dropped in Munich on 9/18, Redelivered in Brunswick, GA on 10/12 by ELEKTRA. Delivered to my home on 11/2.

Last edited by BMR2009; 09-21-2010 at 06:02 PM.
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