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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #76  
Old 02-09-2011, 10:55 AM
franka franka is offline
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Maybe some of the best/top fuel injector cleaning houses can answer some of your question.

Not due to the condition of injectors that come in to them, but due to their knowledge and sourcing of chemicals they use for cleaning. Maybe give you some leads or sources of chemicals and/or information, if nothing else
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Last edited by franka; 02-09-2011 at 10:58 AM.
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  #77  
Old 02-27-2011, 11:31 AM
cn90 cn90 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
I was at OReilly Autoparts store, they sell 2 types:
- Standard Techron 12 oz $5
- "Concentrate Plus" 20 oz. $8-9 (can't remember exact price).
Just shopped at my local COSTCO, they sell Techron FI cleaner 6-pack of 20-oz Techron for $16!!!
So it is less than $3 per 20-oz bottle!
I have been ripped off by local autoparts store!

Anyway, those of you with Costco membership, get the Techron from there.

Last edited by cn90; 02-27-2011 at 11:42 AM.
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  #78  
Old 02-27-2011, 01:19 PM
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Gotta love Costco!

- I get my Mobil1 motor oil there ... (and my extra virgin olive oil!) ...
- I get my nitrile gloves there ... (and my shop rags) ...
- I get the gojo there ... (and the dish detergent to clean the car) ...
- Not to mention gasoline ... (and now there's Techron) ...

Maybe I should start a Costco thread on what is great to buy (or not) ...

For example, I tried to get wipers there ... but to no avail (yes, I know now exactly where to get wiper refills) ...
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  #79  
Old 03-08-2011, 10:27 PM
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Interesting thread today where poly ether amines haven't "yet" worked to clean up a faulty sending unit:
- Gas Gauge

The OP of that thread will try a second pour & let us know the results.
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  #80  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:31 AM
fishsalt fishsalt is offline
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Techron

If a fuel additive helps a sending unit perform better it would be a side affect of cleaning the rheostat contacts or equal effect or affect. The shape of a Chevron Techron bottle is very distinctive and you should recognize it easly. To the person having fun with my spelling, dyslexia is more of a hindrance than being a Tech.

All info I post is just to help not to be all knowing. I have learned a couple of things along the way.

I am happy to anwser any questions.

Thanks!

Last edited by fishsalt; 03-09-2011 at 07:32 AM.
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  #81  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:34 AM
fishsalt fishsalt is offline
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Mobil 1

You can get 5 quart containers of Mobil 1 at walmart for about 23.50, best price I have seen so far.
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  #82  
Old 03-09-2011, 07:37 AM
fishsalt fishsalt is offline
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Cold air

I am not sure of posting rules... but I am looking for Dinan or AFE cold air kit for a 1998 528i.
Thanks,
John
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  #83  
Old 03-09-2011, 10:11 AM
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TemporarySanity TemporarySanity is offline
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Originally Posted by fishsalt View Post
I am not sure of posting rules... but I am looking for Dinan or AFE cold air kit for a 1998 528i.
Thanks,
John
I believe you should post this in the classified section. You'll get better results there. Good luck.
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  #84  
Old 03-09-2011, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TemporarySanity View Post
From what I understand, Techron is just labeled differently for each auto company that uses/sells it but is no different in composition from what anyone can buy off auto part store shelves. If you find Techron for a cheap price, it doesn't mean it's not as good as the BMW labeled stuff.
BMW Fuel System Cleaner Concentrate (that the stealers sell for about $12 ) contains Techron. I know because it says so on the bottle, and I added a bottle to my fuel tank a few months ago.

What else is in there, who knows, probably unicorn horn and pixie dust.
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  #85  
Old 03-09-2011, 11:00 AM
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chiefwej chiefwej is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Just shopped at my local COSTCO, they sell Techron FI cleaner 6-pack of 20-oz Techron for $16!!!
So it is less than $3 per 20-oz bottle!
I have been ripped off by local autoparts store!

Anyway, those of you with Costco membership, get the Techron from there.
I'll believe that only when someone posts the picture of it on the shelf with that price shown under it. I shop regularly at Costco and I don't believe they have ever stocked Techron. They do carry Chevron ProGuard Fuel System Cleaner, which comes in the same bottles with a different label. It IS NOT the same product and does not work like Techron. Costco couldn't buy Techron for that price wholesale. If you find it for that price, buy all they have! I have used it for years and three times that price is a bargain. The best I usually find is a two for one sale at $12-14.
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Last edited by chiefwej; 03-09-2011 at 11:03 AM.
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  #86  
Old 03-09-2011, 12:23 PM
cn90 cn90 is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
I'll believe that only when someone posts the picture of it on the shelf with that price shown under it. I shop regularly at Costco and I don't believe they have ever stocked Techron. They do carry Chevron ProGuard Fuel System Cleaner, which comes in the same bottles with a different label. It IS NOT the same product and does not work like Techron. Costco couldn't buy Techron for that price wholesale. If you find it for that price, buy all they have! I have used it for years and three times that price is a bargain. The best I usually find is a two for one sale at $12-14.
Hi Chief,

I think you may be right.

This is what I got at Costco for $16 (6x16oz):
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product...40*&lang=en-US
It clearly says "Chevron PRO-GARDŽ Fuel Injector Cleaner With TECHRON":


Is there any chemist in this forum???
What is the difference between these 2 products?
"Pro-guard Fuel Injector Cleaner" vs "Fuel System Cleaner".
Personally I think it is the same crap (LOL, I buy this crap anyway!) but in different bottles.
But I am waiting to hear from a chemist:


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Last edited by cn90; 03-09-2011 at 12:27 PM.
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  #87  
Old 03-09-2011, 12:24 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
I shop regularly at Costco and I don't believe they have ever stocked Techron. They do carry Chevron ProGuard Fuel System Cleaner, which comes in the same bottles with a different label. It IS NOT the same product
I have no idea about the pro-guard stuff; but I'm next to a Costco right now. I'll stop by to see what they sell here in norcal in San Jose. I'll look at the ingredients.

BTW, we really should be talking chemistry, not brand names. We should be looking for polyether amines if we're trying to find an equivalent to Techron-branded PEAs.

A chemical is a chemical. By any other name, or any other label, it still smells like the ester it is (those of you who know a bit of chemistry will know what I mean by that).
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  #88  
Old 03-09-2011, 12:44 PM
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chiefwej chiefwej is offline
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Here is an answer from Chevron:
"Thank you for your inquiry. It has been forwarded to us here at Chevron
Fuels Technical Service.

The ProGard and Techron products contain the same chemical additive.
There is but one grade of the Techron product, while there are four
grades of Pro-Gard. The Pro-Gard products are "Clean-up", "Fuel Injector
Cleaner", "Fuel Injector Plus Intake Valve Cleaner", and "Gas
Treatment".

The ProGard products give lower, less effective concentrations. These
lower-concentration packages often sell for less. They have less "keep
clean" and "cleanup" properties. They are also not concentrated enough
to clean combustion chamber deposits. There are only subtle differences
amongst the Pro-Gard products, mostly having to do with concentration.

Techron Concentrate Fuel System Cleaner is the most concentrated and
will clean combustion chamber deposits. There is approximately 100% more
active ingredient in the Techron Concentrate than the Pro-Gard Fuel
Injector Cleaner. The active ingredient is Poly Ether Amine with a
solvent carrier.

A bottle of Techron Concentrate Fuel System Cleaner, when added to
gasoline according to the label instructions, results in an additive
concentration roughly 10 times stronger than the dose in Chevron
gasolines.

If you always used Chevron gasolines, you should be getting enough of a
dose of Techron such that you should not have to purchase the
Concentrate. "


Note; Shell and all other Top Tier gasolines contain Techron's active ingredient, PEA.
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  #89  
Old 03-09-2011, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Yes. Thank you for understanding. My main point was that adding PEA is basically adding "something" at the expense of "fuel"; and that adding expensive detergent when there is already sufficient detergent is tantamount to pouring designer detergent into our daily wash load that already has enough detergent in the vain belief that the soiled socks and underwear will somehow end up cleaner if we just replace the water with more and more detergent.

Adding well-branded detergent into the washload might feel good but, at some point it isn't going to make the clothes any cleaner. The water has a job to do just as automotive fuel does and replacing one with the other has a breaking point where the cost no longer provides a benefit.

I do realize the Techron talking-car advertisements play up on the emotion of the car feeling good about adding this expensive snake oil (hence us feeling good about treating our car right) ... but I'm also pointing out that the advertisers forget to mention negative aspects of ad hoc fuel blend modifications.

Regarding composition, I realize there is no single chemical named "gasoline" just like there's no one chemical named "detergent" or "fuel". A typical gallon of gasoline contains over 500 hydrocarbon compounds, no one batch being the same as another. The burnable fuel in our tank is mostly comprised of saturated hydrocarbons (straight-chain, branched, and cyclic alkanes) with a sizable component (as high as 30-40%) of unsaturated hydrocarbons (mostly aromatics such as benzene and toluene).

The additives we're discussing are already in the fuel in small percentages (e.g., existing polyether amines and polybutene succinimides daily prevent fuel injectors from being clogged by the oxidation and polymerisation of the larger unsaturated hydrocarbon components of gasoline).

My main point was by adding designer additives to "perfectly good" gasoline (i.e., gasoline that already has sufficient additives), adds little value (IMHO), and, furthermore, results in less "energy" content in that particular 19-gallon tank of special home-brew ad-hoc-blend "fuel" (because we're replacing "fuel" with something that is not intended to be fuel).

I realize it may only be 300ml in one tank a year, but, that's an expensive bottle of 300ml of replacement fuel - so it sure better do something; and if it actually does something, why not add it to EVERY tank of fuel - heck - if it's really necessary, why not add it to the gasoline formulation at the refinery! (circuitous argument intended).

Folks are certainly welcome to disagree with my point as I learn from the dialog (adding value in the process)!

To be honest, I've always been interested in "Techron(r)" and even wrote, long ago, to the manufacturer asking (in hind sight, slightly sarcastically) if Techron actually did anything (they wrote back a nice letter telling me it was a proprietary secret what it was and what it did and how it did whatever it was that it did).

It is interesting to note in the advertising blurb that the single "unique" benefit of Techron is that somehow, adding an abundance of polyether amines to gasoline that already has sufficient polyether amines miraculously manages to "eliminate faulty fuel gauge readings".

As anyone who knows me knows, I'm never one to believe in snake-oil-in-a-can, and I'm a strong believer in comparing the benefits to the costs (some of which the advertisers conveniently omit); so I'm especially interested in finding out how they construct that fuel-gauge-repair-in-a-can argument logically! I'm even secretly hoping a bottle of the stuff once a year can fix the wiring in my trunk loom!
Bluebee

I know people that have a Greatly Improved Social Life as a result of this additive...
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  #90  
Old 03-09-2011, 03:24 PM
franka franka is offline
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Its too expensive to sniff
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  #91  
Old 03-09-2011, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cn90 View Post
Just shopped at my local COSTCO, they sell Techron FI cleaner 6-pack of 20-oz Techron for $16
I just visited the San Jose Costco today (got yelled at for using a camera):
  • $15.99 + 10% tax (about $17.60 in toto) Chevron ProGuard, Fuel Injector Cleaner
  • 6 pack, 16 ounces each
  • "With Techron additive"
    • "Cleans clogged fuel injectors"
      • Does NOT remove fuel-gauge sending unit deposits (see discussion)
      • Does NOT remove combustion-chamber deposits (see discussion)
  • Ingredients:
  • More information:
    • +1-800-526-3013 (ask for technical support)
    • Purpose is to compete with additives cheaper than Techron concentrate (see discussion)
    • The concentration of polyether amines is LESS than that of Techron concentrate
    • There are no alcohols whatsoever (see discussion)
Discussion:
The support guy told me there were lower concentrations of "the Techron additive" (aka polyether amines) in ProGuard than in the Techron concentrate and that the whole intent of the ProGuard is to compete with cheaper brands of "fuel injector cleaners" on the market.

He made a big deal of the fact there was no alcohol in ProGuard (he wouldn't tell me why that would matter to me); but he confirmed without a doubt they "make no claims" that ProGuard either cleans the sulfur fuel sending-unit deposits nor the carbon combustion-chamber deposits.

My tentative conclusion:
Given that information, my tentative conclusion is that ProGuard is no better nor worse than most fuel injector cleaners (unless the "alcohol" really makes a difference); but if you "really" think that polyether amines clean sending units, combustion chamber deposits, and fuel injectors, then there is really no good reason to use ProGuard over Techron concentrate.

As always, YMMV.

From Wikipedia:
Quote:
Techron is a ... fuel additive ... usually consisting of gasoline mixed with 400 ppm of polyetheramine.
Quote:
Stoddard solvent is a paraffin-derived clear, transparent liquid which is a common organic solvent used in painting and decorating ... it was the predominant dry cleaning solvent in the United States from the late 1920s until the late 1950s. It is a mixture of saturated aliphatic and alicyclic C7 to C12 hydrocarbons with a maximum content of 25% of C7 to C12 alkyl aromatic hydrocarbons.
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Last edited by bluebee; 03-09-2011 at 08:33 PM.
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  #92  
Old 03-09-2011, 08:12 PM
franka franka is offline
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Gas already has alcohol in it, unless there are areas that do not allow alcohol in gasoline. I do not know.
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  #93  
Old 03-09-2011, 08:28 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franka View Post
Gas already has alcohol in it
Yea, especially in the Republik of Kalifornia!

BTW, the technical support guy at Chevron made a BIG DEAL of the lack of alcohol in this ProGuard stuff.

I'm not quite sure why.
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  #94  
Old 03-09-2011, 08:33 PM
franka franka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
Here is an answer from Chevron:
"Thank you for your inquiry. It has been forwarded to us here at Chevron
Fuels Technical Service.

The ProGard and Techron products contain the same chemical additive.
There is but one grade of the Techron product, while there are four
grades of Pro-Gard. The Pro-Gard products are "Clean-up", "Fuel Injector
Cleaner", "Fuel Injector Plus Intake Valve Cleaner", and "Gas
Treatment".

The ProGard products give lower, less effective concentrations. These
lower-concentration packages often sell for less. They have less "keep
clean" and "cleanup" properties. They are also not concentrated enough
to clean combustion chamber deposits. There are only subtle differences
amongst the Pro-Gard products, mostly having to do with concentration.

Techron Concentrate Fuel System Cleaner is the most concentrated and
will clean combustion chamber deposits. There is approximately 100% more
active ingredient in the Techron Concentrate than the Pro-Gard Fuel
Injector Cleaner. The active ingredient is Poly Ether Amine with a
solvent carrier.

A bottle of Techron Concentrate Fuel System Cleaner, when added to
gasoline according to the label instructions, results in an additive
concentration roughly 10 times stronger than the dose in Chevron
gasolines.

If you always used Chevron gasolines, you should be getting enough of a
dose of Techron such that you should not have to purchase the
Concentrate. "


Note; Shell and all other Top Tier gasolines contain Techron's active ingredient, PEA.
Good post.
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  #95  
Old 03-09-2011, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I just visited the San Jose Costco today (got yelled at for using a camera):

.........


You crack me up, Bluebee.

mw
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Last edited by MatWiz; 03-09-2011 at 08:42 PM.
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  #96  
Old 03-09-2011, 08:44 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
The active ingredient is Poly Ether Amine with a
solvent carrier.
That's EXACTLY what we had prior surmised!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
A bottle of Techron Concentrate Fuel System Cleaner ... results in an additive concentration roughly 10 times stronger than the dose in Chevron gasolines.
For reference, Chevron gasoline, according to Wikipedia, is 400 ppm polyetheramines.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefwej View Post
all ... Top Tier gasolines contain ... PEA.
Agreed.
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  #97  
Old 03-09-2011, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MatWiz View Post
You crack me up, Bluebee.
Yea. I was hanging around the ProGuard section, snapping photos and talking on the phone with the Chevron technical support guy, when, all of a sudden, the "manager" was summoned to confront me.

He told me it was a violation of my Costco agreement to snap pictures inside the store. I said why and asked him to show it to me. He told me he didn't have it in writing and that I could write up a suggestion in the suggestion box.

I asked for the agreement again and he spent a while in the back office, saying again, when he came back out that he didn't have it in writing.

I really didn't want to hang out any longer since I had just stopped in to check out the polyetheramines ... so I left ... unfulfilled ... but with my camera card unconfiscated. He made me agree not to take any more pictures or he would have to escort me out.

Since I had already taken all that I needed, I obliged.
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  #98  
Old 03-09-2011, 09:10 PM
cn90 cn90 is online now
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Bluebee,

Next time tell the manager you are advertising for Costco and they will love it ha!
Before they know it, a whole flock of E39 owners come and empty their shelf of Techron thingy LOL!!!

PS: I think they are probably worried about privacy issues (taking pics of customers etc.) LOL.
I know you don't do it but from the manager's viewpoint, it is different.
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  #99  
Old 03-09-2011, 09:18 PM
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Hey! I just saved 15% on my car insurance by switching to Techron!
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  #100  
Old 03-09-2011, 10:25 PM
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edmonem edmonem is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvsgene View Post

TOP TIER Gasoline Retailers:


Chevron
Texaco
76
Shell
Aloha Petroleum
we have these here.its funny that aloha made the list. anyways, over here aloha took over all the texacos...was at chevron and saw a bottle of the techron concentrate...whats 12 bucks right...poured a bottle when i got home...ill report back if i notice anything different in a week or so...i have a 97 with 93,000 miles, dont think itll make a difference, but im down for the experiment.
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