the E65 rear trunk conundrum.

traffic was pretty awful today. so i looked around at cars while stuck in the parking lot called the masspike.

what struck me is how UNNOTICEABLE other trunk designs are, and yet they achieve the same stated purpose as the trunk on the E65. it was something about keeping the spaciousness of the trunk but "keeping in the design" of the car.

well, i'd say, the next time anyone else is stuck in traffic, have a good looksee at how other auto designers have integrated an increased height trunk deck into their cars. the ford taurus. the toyota avalon. the toyota camry. the Jetta III. the dodge stratus. the old and new E class cars. the new maxima. the list goes on and on. all of these cars also have a design where the line of the car swoops upward toward the rear and there is a clear need to increase trunk space, but you NEVER notice any oddity about these designs.

i mean, even compare the e30 trunk to the e36 trunk. the e36 trunklid is chunky, but it integrates well with the car.

why this is unable to be done with the new designs sure is odd.

Originally Posted by pdz

traffic was pretty awful today. so i looked around at cars while stuck in the parking lot called the masspike.

what struck me is how UNNOTICEABLE other trunk designs are, and yet they achieve the same stated purpose as the trunk on the E65. it was something about keeping the spaciousness of the trunk but "keeping in the design" of the car.

well, i'd say, the next time anyone else is stuck in traffic, have a good looksee at how other auto designers have integrated an increased height trunk deck into their cars. the ford taurus. the toyota avalon. the toyota camry. the Jetta III. the dodge stratus. the old and new E class cars. the new maxima. the list goes on and on. all of these cars also have a design where the line of the car swoops upward toward the rear and there is a clear need to increase trunk space, but you NEVER notice any oddity about these designs.

i mean, even compare the e30 trunk to the e36 trunk. the e36 trunklid is chunky, but it integrates well with the car.

why this is unable to be done with the new designs sure is odd.

Completely agree. The e46 also has a "large butt" but its well-integrated enough that you don't really notice it. My father's old Saab 9000 CDE had an ENORMOUS trunk that I guarantee was larger than even the 745's-- and it still looked better integrated.

Originally Posted by robg

The e46 also has a "large butt" but its well-integrated enough that you don't really notice it.

I don't think so. It's quite noticeable to me.

Originally Posted by The Roadstergal

I don't think so. It's quite noticeable to me.

I agree that its large (Especially compared to older 3 series)- but you really think the e46's butt looks as obvious as the e65's? The e65 trunk calls extra attention to itself w/ the seam-lines that cut outwards, and the squared off trunk.

I think the other consideration is how the taillights drop down, emphasizing the JLo trunk even more.

Originally Posted by The Roadstergal

I don't think so. It's quite noticeable to me.

Interesting. So compared to E46, the E65 has a more elegant trunk design ?

Hmmm...

Originally Posted by Alex Baumann

Interesting. So compared to E46, the E65 has a more elegant trunk design ?

Hmmm...

sometimes i'm not even sure it's the added trunk lip as much as the tail lights accentuating the discontinuity which make the design look 'odd'.

if there were not taillights on the trunk itself, but just restricted to the rear fenders, it would be much less noticeable and more integrated.

The E46 does have a big butt! But I also think it integrates realtive well with the rest of the body. But I gotta agree that the E36's butt was much better integrated! Lower, flatter, and the way the tail lights flow from fender to trunk lid on the E36 was better than the E46's taller, rounder deck and the big light on fender little light on trunk lid.

But I still think that the bigger discontinuities found on the butt of the E65 (and the other designs, though not as much on the Z4) are much worse!

But, one thing is true, and this might be part of what Bangle wants, is that you do notice the butts! As you say, all the others seem to disappear in to the sea of similar designs while the Bangle Butt stands out and draws your attention to it and the rest of the car. Isn't that what all designers of any structure want... to get you looking. The fact that you then either hate it or love it is relatively immaterial, as they already got you thinking.

Hmmm, interesting to consider. I like what's been done with the trunk, and I don't know if 'better integrated' is really the word. It's way overdoing it to say it's a 'celebration of the trunk,' but there's something to be said for making a design element out of the 'trunkishness.' I think the E46 stands out because it isn't as styled, but is noticeably more massive than, say, the E30. The E30 I do feel has an 'integrated' design - take the design theme of a box, and apply to everything but the headlights. (I love it, of course, but that's how I feel it looks.)

BTW, what the **** do y'all carry in your trunks that you ask the designers for more and more and more space? I can lie down comfortably in my 'little' E30 trunk, even with the subwoofer there. I carried the old M20 bottom end in there.

Originally Posted by The Roadstergal

BTW, what the **** do y'all carry in your trunks that you ask the designers for more and more and more space? I can lie down comfortably in my 'little' E30 trunk, even with the subwoofer there. I carried the old M20 bottom end in there.

2 sets of golf clubs with 46" drivers

Originally Posted by operknockity

But, one thing is true, and this might be part of what Bangle wants, is that you do notice the butts! As you say, all the others seem to disappear in to the sea of similar designs while the Bangle Butt stands out and draws your attention to it and the rest of the car. Isn't that what all designers of any structure want... to get you looking. The fact that you then either hate it or love it is relatively immaterial, as they already got you thinking.

That is well said.

Originally Posted by atyclb

2 sets of golf clubs with 46" drivers

Man, I'm a 61" driver, and I thought I was short!

Originally Posted by operknockity

But, one thing is true, and this might be part of what Bangle wants, is that you do notice the butts! As you say, all the others seem to disappear in to the sea of similar designs while the Bangle Butt stands out and draws your attention to it and the rest of the car. Isn't that what all designers of any structure want... to get you looking. The fact that you then either hate it or love it is relatively immaterial, as they already got you thinking.

Pfft !

I look --> I like ---> I Buy.
I look --> I don't like --> I don't Buy.

For me, this is a simple equation.

One thing is for sure. I will never buy an E60 or an E65.

Originally Posted by atyclb

You will probably have to take the 528 if you're going golfing.

Originally Posted by The Roadstergal

You will probably have to take the 528 if you're going golfing.

I can buckle the clubs into the front seat

(maybe)

Originally Posted by The Roadstergal

Man, I'm a 61" driver, and I thought I was short!

Originally Posted by Alex Baumann

One thing is for sure. I will never buy an E60 or an E65.

Would you ever have bought a 5 or 7? I will never buy a 7 and it's only somewhat likely that I would ever buy a 5. It's not an issue to BMW if someone who isn't in the deomgraphic to buy a car likes it or not. And you saw yourself - someone who posted an "Isn't this ugly!" picture got a thread of positive responses to follow. That's where an attention-getting car will do better, even if person x dislikes it - person x will tell persons a->z about it, and some of them will like it, whereas person x may like this other bland design, but won't spread the word on it, since it's bland.

(The only one where BMW really had to score with me is the Z4, and they did.)

Originally Posted by Alex Baumann

Pfft !

I look --> I like ---> I Buy.
I look --> I don't like --> I don't Buy.

For me, this is a simple equation.

But that is a marketting problem, not a design problem. If the designers go so overboard that the the marketters can not move them, then they'll either get a new designer or come up with a newer wackier marketting compaign.

Not that I'm in the market for a new car, but as it stands now, of the current models, the only one I would even consider getting is a Z4, even though it too is not perfect. Besides, the others are pretty much out of my price range anyway. I'll have to wait and see what the 1er's and 2er's look like.

Originally Posted by The Roadstergal

Would you ever have bought a 5 or 7?

If I had the money and the need for a bigger car, I would have gone for the E39. And while the old 7 was out of my range, I I had the money and the need for a car of that size, I could have gone for it.

Originally Posted by The Roadstergal

Would you ever have bought a 5 or 7? I will never buy a 7 and it's only somewhat likely that I would ever buy a 5. It's not an issue to BMW if someone who isn't in the deomgraphic to buy a car likes it or not. And you saw yourself - someone who posted an "Isn't this ugly!" picture got a thread of positive responses to follow. That's where an attention-getting car will do better, even if person x dislikes it - person x will tell persons a->z about it, and some of them will like it, whereas person x may like this other bland design, but won't spread the word on it, since it's bland.

(The only one where BMW really had to score with me is the Z4, and they did.)

I know it's not a BMW issue. I'm talking about my likes and dislikes.

So, based on your explanation, I better STFU because I'll never buy a 5 or 7 series.

So be it.

Originally Posted by Alex Baumann

So, based on your explanation, I better STFU because I'll never buy a 5 or 7 series.

No, don't interperet what I said that way!

I'm saying that BMW doesn't care if I like the 7 series, because I won't be buying one. It does care if I talk about it, though, and in that way have people who would buy one if it impacted on their consciousness hear about it.

I care what you say in general, of course, but I'm not BMW.

Originally Posted by operknockity

If I had the money and the need for a bigger car, I would have gone for the E39. And while the old 7 was out of my range, I I had the money and the need for a car of that size, I could have gone for it.

Aren't money and need the prime considerations to "will you ever buy..."

Originally Posted by operknockity

But that is a marketting problem, not a design problem. If the designers go so overboard that the the marketters can not move them, then they'll either get a new designer or come up with a newer wackier marketting compaign.

Art for art's sake doesn't work very well in the car business. Fortunately for BMW, the 7 is a low volume car. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for the 5.

A little adventure in styling for a low volume car like the 7 can be good--it gets people talking, and any publicity is good publicity. I don't think it has hurt sales too much. If they had continued with, to put it politely, an "elegant" (read "plain, boring") style, there wouldn't be much to talk about when compare it to an S500. Except for I-drive, which would really be bad news.

Compare the 7 series situation to the Asstek, I mean Aztek. Now *that* is both a marketing and design problem.

EDIT: oops, I guess I said what rdstrgal said.

Originally Posted by The Roadstergal

Aren't money and need the prime considerations to "will you ever buy..."

For most rational people, yes. But there is quite a large population of folks for whom status is the prime motivator. How else do you explain the Rolls, the Bentley, the Maybach, etc.

Edit: Add to that list the Hummer. Who the needs an assualt vehicle to take grandma to church