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  #1  
Old 01-03-2010, 12:29 PM
Marine5302 Marine5302 is offline
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Diesel fuel lubricity additives

Attached is the 2007 study regarding lubricity, or lack thereof, in ULSD. It's been posted in every other diesel forum so I thought we should have it here as well. It concludes with what the author found to be the best to the worst. Worst being what they found to cause worse scarring than baseline diesel fuel. As I stated in a prior thread, it's up to each owner to decide whether a lubricity/cetane improver is right for their car/SUV.
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File Type: pdf Diesel_fuel_additive_test.pdf (130.7 KB, 356 views)
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2010, 01:00 PM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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I had seen the study in my research, but then neglected to bookmark the url. Thanks for posting it here.

The conclusion that I came up with for my own fueling practice is that since U.S. ULSD production lubricity must conform to a maximum wear scar of 520 microns, going with Powerservice and its relatively paltry 60 micron improvement would still get me to a 460 micron target. As I have posted previously, what is compelling about Powerservice is its wide availability.
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  #3  
Old 01-03-2010, 01:11 PM
Marine5302 Marine5302 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anE934fun View Post
I had seen the study in my research, but then neglected to bookmark the url. Thanks for posting it here.

The conclusion that I came up with for my own fueling practice is that since U.S. ULSD production lubricity must conform to a maximum wear scar of 520 microns, going with Powerservice and its relatively paltry 60 micron improvement would still get me to a 460 micron target. As I have posted previously, what is compelling about Powerservice is its wide availability.
I also went with PS due to it's availability and, as you alluded to in another thread, it's widespread and longstanding acceptance in the diesel community. Hopefully, most of the "D" members will read and save.
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  #4  
Old 01-03-2010, 03:22 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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i can't post images for some reason, so i hope its OK for me to just supply a link to a thread i started on tdiclub regarding diesel lubricity. the data i was able to obtain showed that Power Service increases lubricity on pump diesel by 170 micron (as opposed to the untreated diesel that the Spicer tests were run on)
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=196059

Last edited by d geek; 01-03-2010 at 03:26 PM.
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  #5  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:04 PM
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Grentz Grentz is offline
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Why is this needed if the d was designed for ULSD?
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  #6  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:12 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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it comes down to the difference between the ULSD sold here in the US and that of the rest of the civilized world
All ULSD needs lubricity additives. Somehow the regulators here in the US decided that the fuel sold here did not have to be as additized as the fuel injection manufacturers mandated.
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  #7  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:24 PM
Marine5302 Marine5302 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
i can't post images for some reason, so i hope its OK for me to just supply a link to a thread i started on tdiclub regarding diesel lubricity. the data i was able to obtain showed that Power Service increases lubricity on pump diesel by 170 micron (as opposed to the untreated diesel that the Spicer tests were run on)
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=196059
Glad to see the VW diesel guys have been discussing this issue as well. Seems like a lot of you guys supporting the pro-additive posture due to the Spicer paper and elsewhere were vindicated even more so after the Bosch report. I've read in a number of places that lubricity additives are added at the terminals yet there is no standard/minimum etc. d geek, have you heard/read the same?
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Last edited by Marine5302; 01-03-2010 at 05:27 PM.
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  #8  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:35 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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please read the thread i linked to for a full discussion. the problem is that all though there is a standard in the US, but it is not as high a standard as ALL the fuel injection manufacturers have designed their systems for. US fuel allows 520 micron wear scar with the HFRR fuel test, but the maximum wear allowed by Bosch and other designers is 460 micron. this means that the internal pump components that are only protected by the fuel are allowed to wear at a much higher rate. the big unknown is what this will mean in terms of service life for the HPFP (whatever technology is used): no one knows if it will be 100K miles or 300K miles difference.
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  #9  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:39 PM
Marine5302 Marine5302 is offline
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Thanks for the clarification.
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  #10  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:41 PM
DC-IT DC-IT is online now
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Hmmm... here in Toronto, Walmart does not carry PowerService Diesel Additive products.

Only one I can find is Prestone Diesel Fuel Treatment.
Walmart Canada

Will this do the job?
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  #11  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:43 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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here's another link that may be of interest:
http://www.bosch-kraftfahrzeugtechni...ement_2009.pdf
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  #12  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:45 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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in Canada, you do not need to worry about lubricity. Canadian standards for lubricity match those of Europe.
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  #13  
Old 01-03-2010, 05:53 PM
DC-IT DC-IT is online now
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Originally Posted by d geek View Post
in Canada, you do not need to worry about lubricity. Canadian standards for lubricity match those of Europe.
Thanks d geek.
I only refuel with Shell V-Power Diesel so I guess that should keep my D happy.
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  #14  
Old 01-03-2010, 08:17 PM
Fredric Fredric is offline
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I have a friend who complains that his g/f doesn't lubricate as well as she used to, and they are both getting worn out. Should I recommend Powerservice to him?
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  #15  
Old 01-03-2010, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Fredric View Post
I have a friend who complains that his g/f doesn't lubricate as well as she used to, and they are both getting worn out. Should I recommend Powerservice to him?
I'd lean towards Astroglide.
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  #16  
Old 01-03-2010, 11:05 PM
Norm37 Norm37 is offline
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Interesting thread. I have wondered about Lubricity of 10% aclohol gasoline and all the HPFP failures on the N54engine.

I started a thread in the general forum (HPFP failure rate in Europe vs USA)

Hopefully somebody can sumerize the link in that thread on "LUBRICITY of GASOLINE"

Not wanting to hijack this thread with answers on gasoline. Here is a link to the thread I started.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=423168

Last edited by Norm37; 01-03-2010 at 11:14 PM.
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  #17  
Old 01-04-2010, 05:54 AM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marine5302 View Post
Attached is the 2007 study regarding lubricity, or lack thereof, in ULSD. It's been posted in every other diesel forum so I thought we should have it here as well. It concludes with what the author found to be the best to the worst. Worst being what they found to cause worse scarring than baseline diesel fuel. As I stated in a prior thread, it's up to each owner to decide whether a lubricity/cetane improver is right for their car/SUV.
In Europe, biodiesel @ 5% is used for lubricity. BMW designed w/same.

What's used in Canada?
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  #18  
Old 01-04-2010, 07:48 AM
d geek d geek is online now
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Biodiesel is a great lubricity additive and is what i use for my VW's when i am not out of my local area. B2 (2%) biodiesel is sufficient for lubricity. As mentioned, BMW allows up to 5%. I have B20 available to me, so i put in 3 gal of that and then top off with Amoco premier diesel (min 50 cetane)
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  #19  
Old 01-04-2010, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marine5302 View Post
Attached is the 2007 study regarding lubricity, or lack thereof, in ULSD. It's been posted in every other diesel forum so I thought we should have it here as well. It concludes with what the author found to be the best to the worst. Worst being what they found to cause worse scarring than baseline diesel fuel. As I stated in a prior thread, it's up to each owner to decide whether a lubricity/cetane improver is right for their car/SUV.
We did discuss this back in November but it was hidden inside a thread. Good idea to make it its own thread.
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2010, 09:28 AM
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Jim E. Jim E. is offline
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Here's some good reading about diesel fuel.

Happy reading,
Jim

Last edited by Jim E.; 01-04-2010 at 01:23 PM. Reason: Sorry, can't post the attachment publicly. :-(
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  #21  
Old 01-04-2010, 09:59 AM
d geek d geek is online now
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nice! where did that come from, Jim?
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  #22  
Old 01-04-2010, 10:27 AM
magbarn magbarn is online now
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Does this mean without this additive our d's are subject to premature HPFP/injector failure?
BTW is this stuff expensive?
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  #23  
Old 01-04-2010, 10:41 AM
d geek d geek is online now
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Does this mean without this additive our d's are subject to premature HPFP/injector failure?
BTW is this stuff expensive?
not using an additive does not guarantee failure, but the risk does increase.

not expensive: <$1/tank.
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  #24  
Old 01-04-2010, 10:49 AM
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nice! where did that come from, Jim?
This is info from BMW

Last edited by Jim E.; 01-04-2010 at 01:24 PM.
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  #25  
Old 01-04-2010, 11:09 AM
d geek d geek is online now
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This is BMW technical training material.
very cool. can we see the whole thing?

are you a dealer tech?
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