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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 02-18-2010, 06:52 AM
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lild lild is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
This is the sequence the borrowed OBDII tester went through for me.

A. It started by reading "O Codes" (even though CA smog had read P0500)
B. Then it read "MIL OFF" (even though the CA smog inspection said MIL on)
C. Then MONITRS (I think that means it has 8 things to check)
D. Then 0-Inc (I'm not sure what this meant)
E. Then 8-Ready (I think that means the 8 data tests were coming next)
F1 Misfire
F2 Fuel
F3 Comp
F4 Catlyst
F5 Evap
F6 Sec Air
F7 02 Snsr
F8 02 Htr

I read no errors, so, it is time to go back to the California DMV even though I've done nothing since the original bogus failure other than reset the codes and drive the BMW for a tank of fuel.

the reason why the code scanner didn't see any problems is because the other guys at the shop had cleared out the codes. if they didn't then you would have seen the code.
also
0 incomlpete means that there are no more emissions test to run.
and the 8 complete measn all those 8 test you see are done and good to go.
if you take the scanner, even though there isn't anything wrong, and hit the erase button, and imediatly rescan, you would have 8 imcomplete, then it would list all the imcomplete test. the same ones listed in the complete.
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  #27  
Old 02-18-2010, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lild View Post
0 incomlpete means that there are no more emissions test to run and the 8 complete measn all those 8 test you see are done and good to go.
Ah, I see the difference:
0-Inc means all 8 tests ran
8-Ready means they all passed

In hindsight, I was a fool to get my car smogged after rebuilding my ABS without first reading and erasing the stored codes!

Nobody told me and I didn't even think of it myself so I hope others learn from my bad experience (I had to pay twice for a smog check that was never needed in the first place because I have zero emissions!).

It's such a rip off to get caught in this ABS-SMOG-P0500 triangle.
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  #28  
Old 02-18-2010, 09:55 AM
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lild lild is offline
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i'm surprised you had to pay for it twice. here once you pay, and it fails, you get to bring it back, once you get it fixed, and don't pay for a second time around.
and hey no one, after fixing you abs, and the goes out, any one would think all was ok.
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  #29  
Old 02-21-2010, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lild View Post
i'm surprised you had to pay for it twice
In California, the whole smog thing isn't at all (IMHO) about the environment ... it's just a farce set up to create an entire industry and an additional tax.

It's all about money. So there is no free second test (at least not at the prices I paid for my smog inspection). I never expect to fail because the entire smog test experience is a waste of my time and money.

Here, in California, not only do you customarily pay for each inspection (and you can, as I did, fail with absolutely 0.0 ppm emissions!) - but every couple of years you have to PAY DOUBLE for a "special" inspection (smog-test only) where the guy who tests you can't fix it if it fails.

Why? Again, so California can create an entire industry around the smog test.

In fact, California even makes 10 dollars per car on a "certificate" (which you never get, mind you) ... it's just yet another California tax under the guise of something else.

It's sad, but, taxes are a killer out here. And, well, most native Californians don't seem to mind so that is why they will finally be strangled by their own taxes.

And, we're not even talking about the huge yearly property tax on cars (in addition to large registration fees).

Sigh.

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  #30  
Old 06-15-2010, 03:42 AM
repandpresent repandpresent is offline
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I have a question. My DSC light has always shown (triangular light). Will this cause me to fail CA smog?
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  #31  
Old 08-27-2010, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repandpresent View Post
Will this cause me to fail CA smog?
I just happened across this thread while looking it up as a reference for another.

I do not know if the DSC light is a cause for failure (did you press the DSC button perchance?).

What you need to do is get a $29 code reader and see if there are any codes related to the DSC light being on. If there are ANY diagnostic trouble codes, yes, you will fail.
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  #32  
Old 08-29-2010, 04:56 AM
repandpresent repandpresent is offline
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I didn't press it. Sometimes when I first start the car, all the lights will be off. I could turn on the DSC at command. But right when I start to drive it 5 feet all three lights come on. I had my module rebuilt. It could have been a shotty job. Who knows. I bought cables for PA soft. I just need to find an old laptop with serial ports. Then I will be finally be able to pin point the problem.
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  #33  
Old 08-29-2010, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repandpresent View Post
Then I will be finally be able to pin point the problem.
Probably not. See Bill's eloquent explanation on why the diagnostic testers almost always fail to pinpoint the problem when all three lights (BRAKE, DSC, & ABS) are lit.

The best test is explained here, which I'll summarize as:
a. Open the hood, disconnect the ABS control module harness & check the four wheel speed sensors with a DMM;
b. If any wheel speed sensor tests bad, doublecheck at the appropriate wheel; replace the bad one with an OE sensor (<$100, rarely more than one!);
c. If all four speed sensors are good, even though you had your ABS control module rebuilt, many others have reported they needed to get their money back and send the already-rebuilt-once ABS control module to another rebuilder. The most recommended rebuilder is clearly BBA, with MM in second place. ATE worked fine for me (although they botched the closing of the cover) but ATE has failed for some others. ATE is also the least expensive but in your case, you'll need to go to BBA instead.
d. If the rebuilder can't re-repair your module (takes about 5 days overall), buy a new module ($480 from Jared at EACTuning) & have the VIN recoded at the stealer (about $120).
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  #34  
Old 08-29-2010, 09:30 AM
repandpresent repandpresent is offline
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I tried testing it with a DDM at the abs module harness. I can't get a good connection. It seems like the wires that I stick into the harness can't get a good mating point. I tried and tried. I gave up after hours of trying.
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  #35  
Old 08-29-2010, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repandpresent View Post
I can't get a good connection.
You need very small wires. I forget the AWG but it's in the thread. RadioShack would sell it but most of us have some wires lying around.

I'll bet the wires that go around bread wrappers would work; just strip off the paper.
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  #36  
Old 08-30-2010, 12:08 AM
repandpresent repandpresent is offline
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I used the gauge recommended for the test. I forget what it was. It wasn't my DMM because I tested it against two piece of metal just to see if it would get a reading.
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  #37  
Old 08-30-2010, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repandpresent View Post
It wasn't my DMM because I tested it against two piece of metal just to see if it would get a reading.
Of all the people reporting back, two (including you) had this problem.

We don't recommend giving up on the DMM test at the harness connector; but for the other guy who did give up, we recommended he switch to plan B which is to test the sensors at the wheels where it's reputedly easier to get the test leads on the wires.
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  #38  
Old 08-30-2010, 07:48 AM
truelies truelies is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
Of all the people reporting back, two (including you) had this problem.

We don't recommend giving up on the DMM test at the harness connector; but for the other guy who did give up, we recommended he switch to plan B which is to test the sensors at the wheels where it's reputedly easier to get the test leads on the wires.
bluebee,
From: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=48

You said:

1 Hydraulic Pressure Sensor (attached to the front-brake hydraulic unit in my E39, DSC III Bosch 5.7) <==MY PROBLEM!

So you ABS is good? Dealer tested my problem, they said I have ABS and the pressure sensor both bad.
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  #39  
Old 08-30-2010, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by truelies View Post
1 Hydraulic Pressure Sensor (attached to the front-brake hydraulic unit in my E39, DSC III Bosch 5.7) <==MY PROBLEM!
Yea. The one problem with these threads is you can't fix your mistakes in the post after a while.

It turned out (and it's said a few times in the later posts to that same thread), that 'my problem' was the ABS, not the pressure sensor.

At the time of that post (only 48 in of what turns out to be a few hundred posts), I THOUGHT it was the pressure sensor BECAUSE that's what the borrowed diagnostic tools told me.

But, as I said many times afterward, the diagnostic tools can NOT tell the right problem (Bill has stated this many times and explained it in the thread I referenced).

If you continue on that epic thread, you'll see me say in post #85:
- Diagnostic tools first indicated a Bosch "114 Pressure Sensor Offset"
- Now they implicate a BMW "81 Einlassventil : vorne links (inlet valve, front left)"

Yet, by post #125, I had finally figured out not to trust the fancy schmancy diagnostic tool outputs and by post #163 I had finally brought the car back to OEM condition without replacing anything but the rebuilt abs control module (and clearing the errant codes that resulted in an inadvertant failed smog inspection).

Note: I know it's hard to read a 200-post thread, so that's why I point it out here. Only later did I learn the diagnostic tools fail miserably for this particular problem.

Basically, when you have the infamous ABS/BRAKE/DSC three-fingered salute, the only diagnostic tool that doesn't lie to you is the DMM.

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  #40  
Old 02-28-2011, 12:51 PM
jujulio jujulio is offline
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hey bluebee where did you get your ABS unit REBUILT? mine goes on and off and have no idea what to do, and i need to do the SMOG test SOON .
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  #41  
Old 02-28-2011, 02:27 PM
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BigCo540i BigCo540i is offline
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I had a misfire code so I change the plugs, cleaned MAF, ICV, and reset the codes. Now have the P500 speed sensor code. Did I understand correctly that it will clear its self??
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  #42  
Old 02-28-2011, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jujulio View Post
hey bluebee where did you get your ABS unit REBUILT? mine goes on and off and have no idea what to do, and i need to do the SMOG test SOON .
First off, if your ABS BRAKE & DSC lights are on, it could be one of the wheel speed sensors.

The way to tell is simply to take 10 minutes to test them.

Depending on the year of the E39, the pinout will be as shown below in the photographs from this thread:
- E39 ABS DIY

Otherwise, if it is not the sensors but it's the ABS control module, you can fix, for free, the one steel wire that comes off its bondpad based on the DIY in this thread:
- ABS control module autopsy (specific instructions necessary for a competent repair)

Otherwise, the three rebuilders we use are BBA/MM/ATE in that order.

Personally, I went with ATE (at a cost of $125 + $25 shipping). Most recommend BBA because they have the best customer service (but they also cost more).

Up to you. It's all in that ABS DIY thread so I'm really repeating what is already very well known.

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  #43  
Old 08-04-2013, 12:23 PM
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For the record, another P0500 code was posted today over here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chacho911 View Post
#My first question is can my check engine light and abs light both be on for the same reason such as p0500 "speed sensor"?

If I clean my speed sensors with some crc electric cleaner (removes dirt , greas, & quick dries) will this possiablly fix the light ? My e39 is running good on freeway and streets. How can I clean them with this if its ok to use this? I got it at auto zone. It's the spray can not the paste.
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Your job, in return, is to read the suggested threads, where the best people will always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need
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  #44  
Old 09-08-2013, 10:48 PM
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Good PDFs were posted in this thread if anyone wishes to access, remove, and test their transmission speed sensor (P0500 error):
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Tranny Speed Sensor Location


Quote:
Originally Posted by rdl View Post
These two pdfs will help. One shows the general location. The other shows the wiring harness connectors so that you can follow the wires to the turbine speed sensor and the output speed sensor.

Regards
RDL
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Each repair should invariably add to our knowledge base by the process of inexorable incrementalism.
Your job, in return, is to read the suggested threads, where the best people will always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need
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  #45  
Old 01-15-2014, 08:12 PM
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For the record, the P0500 showed up recently in this thread:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > P0500 code in EARLY 528i

EDIT:
See also the results of a quick E39-only forum search for P0500 in the title:
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Each repair should invariably add to our knowledge base by the process of inexorable incrementalism.
Your job, in return, is to read the suggested threads, where the best people will always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need

Last edited by bluebee; 01-15-2014 at 08:30 PM.
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  #46  
Old 01-15-2014, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebee View Post
I think we need to add these steps to the ABS DIY:

After you replace the ABS control module
0. Drive at least 50 miles (+ 3 starts) until the SES light turns off;
1. Drive at least 50 more miles (making sure of at least 3 more restarts);
2. Check the codes with an OBDII scanner (making sure all data is there).

My main question (since I haven't done it), is how do I know all the "data" is there?
I just noticed this, when I updated this thread today, and I now know the answer, which is the FTP ...
- How to better understand the key EPA federal test procedure (FTP) concept of the BMW SES "drive cycle" (1)

The practical answer is to use a code reader to determine when all the registers are full:
- Where to get the cheapest reasonable OBDII scanner in the world (1)

And, this thread explains exactly which registers can be left unfilled in California:
- What you need to pass E39 smog emissions test results in California (1)
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Each repair should invariably add to our knowledge base by the process of inexorable incrementalism.
Your job, in return, is to read the suggested threads, where the best people will always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need
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  #47  
Old 05-13-2014, 11:39 PM
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This thread today discusses the P0500 and the P0501:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Trifecta lights + no speedo, again

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie528iT View Post
As I said "in most cases". Once an error has been flagged up sometimes it is transient and sometimes it becomes permanent and needs to be reset using diagnostic equipment. Even if the "trifecta" goes away there will still be error codes set which can be read by INPA. This shows whether the error is present or not, if it is transient/non permanent, and how many times it has occurred since the error was last cleared. The last thing you need is the error codes resetting every time you remove the key. If this happened there would be no history of the errors and how many times they occurred. The lights may go out if the problem is transient, ie when the ABS module cools down, but the error codes still remain stored and can be read by INPA.

INPA also has something called "Shadow Memory" which seems to be a permanent record of errors occurring. I'm still trying to understand what this does.

Regards
RonR
Quote:
Originally Posted by HTK12 View Post
INPA can't tell if the module is bad or not, that is a fact. You can't tell by the error codes either. When the module starts to go bad you usually get the trifecta when it's hot. You can confirm the diagnosis by turning off the car and cooling the module and restarting. If cooling (cold spray etc.) clears the trifecta it's the module. INPA is a powerfull tool, but it can't do everything. The trifecta lights are reset when you turn off the ignition, but the fault codes are stored. To reset codes you need to use a scanner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick_m18 View Post
So I took a couple videos showing how the heat affects my car, although I have probably restated it half a dozen times now.

This is in midday, 85-90 degrees F.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/19g40eqs2t...2017.45.19.mov

This is at night around 65-70 degrees F.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/onzm78znu5...2022.27.43.mov

This is why Im suspecting it is the heat causing the problems but I am not positive. If I were to restart my car in the heat, all the lights would come on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick_m18 View Post
Another set of videos showing what happens when the car warms up.

Before the lights come on:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/9rih5yb9oj...2015.40.30.mov

After the lights come on:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oenrtyk4io...2015.48.01.mov

BBA told me I need to try and have the codes reset, as they may be stored still. Trying to do that in California is difficult. Autozone won't do it, Jiffylube won't do it, I am basically left with going to a mechanic and paying $100 to have the codes read and reset.

These are the codes that were popping up before I had the abs module replaced:

I replaced the rear left which is responsible for the speedometer not working.
I replaced the fuse which corresponds with code 14 (at least I think, from the research I have done)
I have replaced the front right with a cheap ebay one - I know, this is BAD, I plan on replacing it with a genuine one very soon. From my knowledge this doesn't affect the speedometer which is the main problem I want to fix.

BBA sent me this piece of paper, which is interesting to me:


This goes back to bluebee's suggestion: reading the abs harness. I do not have access to a multimeter nor do I know anyone who does. The $100 that I would have to pay my local mechanic includes reading the codes and finding what the problem is, meaning they would check the signals from all the abs sensors too.
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Each repair should invariably add to our knowledge base by the process of inexorable incrementalism.
Your job, in return, is to read the suggested threads, where the best people will always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need
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  #48  
Old 07-15-2014, 06:52 PM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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For the record, there was another P0500 today ...
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Module Masters ABS report
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV8R4AA View Post
The DTC WAS
P0500. Indicating right rear sensor failure.
We replaced that, cleared the trifecta lights.
1/2 a block away the trifecta lights came back on.

I sent module in for repair. Status report is works perfect.
Module due back this week. Do I install it and see what happens?
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Each repair should invariably add to our knowledge base by the process of inexorable incrementalism.
Your job, in return, is to read the suggested threads, where the best people will always add value to those threads, either by pictures or by descriptions, so the next person with the same problem stands on your shoulders.
See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need

Last edited by bluebee; 07-15-2014 at 07:00 PM.
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  #49  
Old 07-15-2014, 08:41 PM
mgs mgs is online now
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Have same problem. Had my abs module repaired, replaced speed sensor. Then the codes cleared & passed smog. California's emission are really strict. I think even the codes are not smog/emission related as long ses/cel is on the car won't pass smog


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  #50  
Old 07-15-2014, 09:55 PM
Crutzy Crutzy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgs View Post
Have same problem. Had my abs module repaired, replaced speed sensor. Then the codes cleared & passed smog. California's emission are really strict. I think even the codes are not smog/emission related as long ses/cel is on the car won't pass smog


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I don't think any state will allow an SES or CEL to be lit and still pass their smog inspection.
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