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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #1  
Old 01-10-2010, 07:32 PM
billowen billowen is offline
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Mein Auto: 2004 330cic 2010 335d
335d oil capacity and viscosity

I have continually driven diesel powered cars since 1979 starting
with a GM (BAD move!) and with MB from 1982 until selling my last MB a
couple of months ago when I ordered a 335d.

I am of the old school regarding frequent oil changes being the life
of an engine especially diesels and therefore consider all usage as
severe and change oil and filter on that basis at a minimum! I have
used synthetics since around 1991 and my usage includes putting 386K+
miles on a MB 300D with never a problem.

My current daily driver is a 2004 Passat TDI and I follow VW's
recommendations for severe service including using the REQUIRED 505.01
5W-40 oil which is NOT easy to find!!

I change the oil in German cars we've owned using an extractor as as the
filters are on top and nothing could be easier. I do this because I
think I do a more thorough job of "draining" and it is far less
expensive than the dealer.

I "lurk' on the BMW, MB and VW lists to learn from others.

I explain all of this detail so that it is clear (I hope ) this isn't
my first go with a diesel or changing oil - but maybe I have been doing
it too long...

So here are my problems and concerns regarding wanting to change the
oil more often than every 15k in my 335d. I hope someone far more
knowledgeable than me can help.

1. FIRST and foremost, WHAT IS THE OIL CAPACITY OF THE 335d ? I CAN
NOT FIND it stated anywhere in the manual, the service booklet or on
any list. We also have a 2004 330Cic. The oil capacity is clearly
stated in the 330Cic manual - BUT for the 335d, it just isn't given!
So does anyone know what the capacity of the 335d is and what is the
source of your information?

2. What weight oil. The manual states Longlife -04 is "preferred" for the 335d.
Immediately below that, the manual states "Approved oils belong to the
following viscosity classes: 0W-40, 0W-30, 5W-40 and 5W-30 -with no
distinction made between gas and diesel engines.
Below that "BMW recommends Castrol"

The 335d Service Manual states: We recommend BMW 5W-30 Diesel
Synthetic Oil with the part BMW part # given. If that isn't available,
use a synthetic oil meeting BMW's LL-04 spec. the service manual then
states that "Castrol SLX Professional OE SAE 5W-30 Fully Synthetic"
meets the BMW LL-04 spec. Nothing else is listed.

My concern is that never before have I seen a 5W-30 recommended for
summer use in a warm/hot climate (I live in the South). This has me worried that there is a trade off going on between engine life (IMHO) vs. the filter life and that heavier oils are not yet available in the US to meet the 15k oil change "goal"

HELP. BMW has left me wondering.......

Bill
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2010, 08:18 PM
Jim E.'s Avatar
Jim E. Jim E. is offline
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7.5 L is the capacity.
5W-30 longlife-04

there's also a longlife-04 0W-40



Quote:
Originally Posted by billowen View Post
I have continually driven diesel powered cars since 1979 starting
with a GM (BAD move!) and with MB from 1982 until selling my last MB a
couple of months ago when I ordered a 335d.

I am of the old school regarding frequent oil changes being the life
of an engine especially diesels and therefore consider all usage as
severe and change oil and filter on that basis at a minimum! I have
used synthetics since around 1991 and my usage includes putting 386K+
miles on a MB 300D with never a problem.

My current daily driver is a 2004 Passat TDI and I follow VW's
recommendations for severe service including using the REQUIRED 505.01
5W-40 oil which is NOT easy to find!!

I change the oil in German cars we've owned using an extractor as as the
filters are on top and nothing could be easier. I do this because I
think I do a more thorough job of "draining" and it is far less
expensive than the dealer.

I "lurk' on the BMW, MB and VW lists to learn from others.

I explain all of this detail so that it is clear (I hope ) this isn't
my first go with a diesel or changing oil - but maybe I have been doing
it too long...

So here are my problems and concerns regarding wanting to change the
oil more often than every 15k in my 335d. I hope someone far more
knowledgeable than me can help.

1. FIRST and foremost, WHAT IS THE OIL CAPACITY OF THE 335d ? I CAN
NOT FIND it stated anywhere in the manual, the service booklet or on
any list. We also have a 2004 330Cic. The oil capacity is clearly
stated in the 330Cic manual - BUT for the 335d, it just isn't given!
So does anyone know what the capacity of the 335d is and what is the
source of your information?

2. What weight oil. The manual states Longlife -04 is "preferred" for the 335d.
Immediately below that, the manual states "Approved oils belong to the
following viscosity classes: 0W-40, 0W-30, 5W-40 and 5W-30 -with no
distinction made between gas and diesel engines.
Below that "BMW recommends Castrol"

The 335d Service Manual states: We recommend BMW 5W-30 Diesel
Synthetic Oil with the part BMW part # given. If that isn't available,
use a synthetic oil meeting BMW's LL-04 spec. the service manual then
states that "Castrol SLX Professional OE SAE 5W-30 Fully Synthetic"
meets the BMW LL-04 spec. Nothing else is listed.

My concern is that never before have I seen a 5W-30 recommended for
summer use in a warm/hot climate (I live in the South). This has me worried that there is a trade off going on between engine life (IMHO) vs. the filter life and that heavier oils are not yet available in the US to meet the 15k oil change "goal"

HELP. BMW has left me wondering.......

Bill

Last edited by Jim E.; 01-10-2010 at 08:26 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2010, 08:59 PM
billowen billowen is offline
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"7.5 L is the capacity."

Thank you!
Where did you find this?

I thought i had looked everywhere in the manuals and on line.

best,

Bill
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  #4  
Old 01-10-2010, 09:15 PM
Jim E.'s Avatar
Jim E. Jim E. is offline
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I had the dealer show me the capacities spec sheet for the 335d.

Quote:
Originally Posted by billowen View Post
"7.5 L is the capacity."

Thank you!
Where did you find this?

I thought i had looked everywhere in the manuals and on line.

best,

Bill
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2010, 10:40 PM
DHC8 DHC8 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billowen View Post
...
2. What weight oil. The manual states Longlife -04 is "preferred" for the 335d.
Immediately below that, the manual states "Approved oils belong to the
following viscosity classes: 0W-40, 0W-30, 5W-40 and 5W-30 -with no
distinction made between gas and diesel engines.
...
l
There is a disconnect between the American and European approach to oil standards.

The SAE viscosity numbers cover a range, not a hard number. And the European standards tend to straddle the SAE viscosity ranges. So an LL-04 oil might be a 5w-30 or a 0W-40, while other oils with the same 5W-30 or 0W-40 rating might be too thin or too thick due to their being at the extreme ends of the range.

But it is really simple. Think like a European and forget your Father's Buick (as I certainly am trying to forget my Father's Mercury). You need an oil that meets LL-04. It will say so on the back of the bottle. Nothing else matters. LL-04 applies to all diesel and non-North American gasoline engines.
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  #6  
Old 01-11-2010, 04:23 AM
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Chrisdridley Chrisdridley is offline
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My 335d is not making it to the 15k mile mark before and oil change. At 10,000 and change, the oil change notification comes up on the computer. So far, I am at 31,000 miles on the odometer and am ready for my 3rd oil change.
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  #7  
Old 01-11-2010, 06:36 AM
montr montr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billowen View Post
I change the oil in German cars we've owned using an extractor as as the
filters are on top and nothing could be easier. I do this because I
think I do a more thorough job of "draining" and it is far less
expensive than the dealer.

Bill
I am planning to change the oil using an extractor. I will have to confirm that I can extract most of the oil that way.
See http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=424172

As for the oil, I got a diesel oil kit from my dealer, 8 qts of Castrol SLX Professional OE 5W30 and an oil filter for $79. Next time, I will only get the filter from the dealer and I will get the Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 http://www.mobil.com/UK-English/Lube...mula_5W-30.asp ($7 per liter at Pep Boys).
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  #8  
Old 01-11-2010, 06:50 AM
Marine5302 Marine5302 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisdridley View Post
My 335d is not making it to the 15k mile mark before and oil change. At 10,000 and change, the oil change notification comes up on the computer. So far, I am at 31,000 miles on the odometer and am ready for my 3rd oil change.
I wouldn't go over 10,000 miles on any oil change especially with our cars that have two turbos. Turbos generate extremley high temperatures that can degrade an oil much quicker than in a non-turbo car. I'm going no more than 7,500 miles between changes. My first was at 3000 miles due to the annual change by the dealer. Next change will most likely be at 10,500 or so using that schedule.
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  #9  
Old 01-11-2010, 01:52 PM
listerone listerone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim E. View Post
7.5 L is the capacity.
5W-30 longlife-04

there's also a longlife-04 0W-40
Who makes the 0W-40?
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Fuelly
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  #10  
Old 01-11-2010, 02:06 PM
montr montr is offline
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http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/att...1&d=1255820979
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2010, 02:15 PM
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Jim E. Jim E. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listerone View Post
Who makes the 0W-40?
Castrol.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2010, 02:15 PM
Marine5302 Marine5302 is offline
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Found Pentosin 5W-30 in two seperate auto parts stores. Notice it is BMW LL-04 approved as well as MB 229.51.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Pento Super Performance III 5W-30_GB.pdf (41.7 KB, 275 views)
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  #13  
Old 01-11-2010, 02:16 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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so no 0W40 LL-04 available in N America?
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  #14  
Old 01-11-2010, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
so no 0W40 LL-04 available in N America?
It's not easy to find at all.

I'm going to hunt it down.

Here is the spec sheet: http://www.castroledge.com.au/downlo...741_200808.pdf
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  #15  
Old 01-11-2010, 06:00 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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good luck finding an australian product on this continent

pretty sure the only LL-04 oil available here is 5W30 wt
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  #16  
Old 01-11-2010, 06:59 PM
Jim E.'s Avatar
Jim E. Jim E. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
good luck finding an australian product on this continent

pretty sure the only LL-04 oil available here is 5W30 wt
I'm working on it.
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  #17  
Old 01-11-2010, 07:05 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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what's the point, Jim? As montr pointed out, your corner PepBoys has the Mobil1 product for $7/liter. that oil meets MB 229.51 and VW507 as well as the LL-04 standard.
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  #18  
Old 01-11-2010, 07:20 PM
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Jim E. Jim E. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d geek View Post
what's the point, Jim? As montr pointed out, your corner PepBoys has the Mobil1 product for $7/liter. that oil meets MB 229.51 and VW507 as well as the LL-04 standard.
0W-40? I'll give it a shot.

I want to see the effect 0W-40 has on my mileage. Especially when it's cold.

Last edited by Jim E.; 01-11-2010 at 07:22 PM.
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  #19  
Old 01-12-2010, 12:15 PM
dMabuse dMabuse is offline
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I posted this in the 335d thread:

I hit 1,500 miles recently so I did a break-in oil change yesterday. I used a Mity-Vac suction fluid extractor for the first time. It worked great. Stuck the tube right down the dip stick. I got a little more than 7 quarts out. Aoroximately 7.25 quarts I'd guess. Swapped out the oil filter (the dealer charged me $13 for it), which was very easy. Tightened down the filter housing with a 32mm socket. Tightened it with a toque wrench to 18 ft. lbs. Refilled with 7 quarts of Mobil 1 ESP 5W-30 ($7 at Pep Boys). Drove the car for a little while, then checked the oil level and it looked right on. So I didn't add any more. I probably didn't get all the oil out, but I probably got 95% of it. Old oil looked filthy, which surprised me.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:37 PM
Snipe656 Snipe656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisdridley View Post
My 335d is not making it to the 15k mile mark before and oil change. At 10,000 and change, the oil change notification comes up on the computer. So far, I am at 31,000 miles on the odometer and am ready for my 3rd oil change.
My first change was supposed to be done at 8k miles if I remember correctly but it maybe was 7k. The change was done due to time, hit 12 months, so was around 5300 miles on the car. The computer at first said 13k for the 2nd change but last I checked it says 12k miles for the second change now. I'd be really surprised if anyone ever had the computer say 15k miles for the change and stay at that statement all the way until that mileage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marine5302 View Post
I wouldn't go over 10,000 miles on any oil change especially with our cars that have two turbos. Turbos generate extremley high temperatures that can degrade an oil much quicker than in a non-turbo car. I'm going no more than 7,500 miles between changes. My first was at 3000 miles due to the annual change by the dealer. Next change will most likely be at 10,500 or so using that schedule.
Out of curiosity what does your computer say the next change should be done at?

The factory says for my truck that it should be changed every 7500 miles. That is a turbocharged diesel as well and they use a partially synthetic oil. So it sees it's fair share of heat as well. At 134k miles I am still detecting no loss of oil between changes and had no failures of any parts that lead me to believe oil issues but never bothered to get the oil analyzed or anything. I actually sometimes stretch it to 15k miles but that was early on in the vehicles life when I ran full synthetic a few times. I do not really see how 10k of mainly highway miles would be bad but of course not like you can cause damage by changing the oil too often. Personally past 7500 miles is when I begin to question the filter.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:25 PM
billowen billowen is offline
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Thanks to all for your comments and advice.

I sure wish BMW was more transparent as the current phrase seems to be as I am still concerned about 5W-30 viscosity for my diesel in summer but that is a bridge I will have to cross when it gets warmer and not before.

Frankly I wonder if BMW stated Castrol SLX Professional OE SAE 5W-30 Fully Synthetic because a) BMW has a "tie in" with Castrol and therefore only recommends Castrol as a brand the same as some other manufacturers do with Mobile 1 for example; and b) Castrol does not yet bring in the US an LL-04 5W-40, nor does almost anyone else. A Motul LL-04 5W40 is imported but isn't commonly available and maybe there are a couple of others -I can't say for sure.

The reason for my train of thought was when looking around the web, I saw that the LL-04 Castrol 5W-40 is available in the UK and in Europe. BTW, this oil also meets the stringent 505.01 spec for the Volkswagen PD diesel which required a special oil because (I think) of the sheer requirement due to the pressure on the cams with the PD engine. I think VW now has swapped to the common rail system with the filter so the 505.01 isn't needed after either 05 or perhaps 06 models.

What I found interesting was a December 2005 BMW technical sheet on a UK site. It states that LL-04 is required for the filter in diesels. While it also contains BMW's general language that various viscosity's are generally acceptable, the technical sheet also includes the ACEA standard for recommended viscosity at various ambient temperatures:
Here is a copy of part of that document.

BMW longlife oils:
Spark-ignition engines: A2/B2, A3/B3 or A3/B4
Diesel engines: A3/B3 or A3/B4

WebTIS Page 1 sur 2
https://oss-prod.bmw-serviceweb.de/w...nfoobj_id=1104... 14/12/2005

BMW longlife oils, as specified for all BMW vehicles since 1998, are tested by BMW to ensure that they
can be used anywhere in the world, at any time of year, regardless of ambient temperature. If BMW
longlife oils are used, it is therefore not necessary to keep a check on the viscosity grade. The exception
is the M47T2: for SAE 5W-X oils there is a lower temperature limit of -20C. Cold-starting difficulties
may occur at lower temperatures. In countries where outside temperatures frequently fall below -20C,
we therefore recommend 0W instead of 5W products. BMW Longlife oils are only available in the
viscosity grades SAE 0W-30, SAE 0W-40, SAE 5W-30 and SAE 5W-40.
BMW special oils:
SAE 0W-X and SAE 5W-X oils (X can mean 30, 40, 50 or 60) can be used all year round anywhere in
the world any ambient temperature. For SAE 10W-X oils there is a lower temperature limit of -20C.
Cold-starting difficulties may occur at lower temperatures.

ACEA specification:
The most suitable viscosity grade should be selected using the viscosity/temperature diagram. Here
again, making the right choice will avoid the need for purely seasonal oil changes (e.g. SAE 15W-40 for
Central Europe). The temperature limits shown in the diagram may be exceeded for a short time. If the
upper temperature limit is exceeded, high engine speeds and loads over a prolonged period should be
avoided. If the lower temperature limit is exceeded, difficulties may be experienced in starting a cold
engine.
Viscosity grades

A CHART GOES HERE BUT I COULD NOT COPY IT
The chart shows recommended usage of XW-30 oils topping out at 30C (a little over 80 degrees F) for diesels.

A = Longlife oil (as per Enclosures 4, 5, 6)
B = Special oils (as per Enclosure 8)
C = ACEA specifications for diesel engines (as per Enclosure 11)
D = ACEA specifications for spark-ignition engines (as per Enclosure 11)
Status 09/2005
WebTIS Page 2 sur 2
https://oss-



Here is the link to this BMW technical document on the UK site. Even though it is four years old, it deals with the LL-04 requirement for diesel particulate filters i.e. the same requirements we have now.

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/BMW-O...s-and-Recs.pdf

I am not arguing for any conclusion other than it seems that BMW is traveling along the theory that a 5W-30 is acceptable for any ambient temperature, while at the same time acknowledging (and including in its technical document) the ACEA specification recommendation for not using XW-30 above 30C.

What all of this means IMHO is that for the oil companies like Castrol, there just aren't enough of the BMW, MB or other diesels with filters being brought into the US yet to justify supplying an LL-04 5W-40 oil to the US market and therefore BMW is limited to recommending a LL-04 5W-30 which happens to be Castrol because of my believed BMW "tie-in" with Castrol, so the recommendation is limited to the Castrol OE 5W-30 (or BMW's brand which I'd bet is supplied by Castrol). After all, how big can the secondary market be, if most diesel cars with filters in the US are under a maintenance program.

Just my 2 cents, but I do think the ACEA specification spec which BMW chose to include in BMW's own document does add serious weight to my belief; BUT I offer this thought only for those who might be interested and who wish draw their own conclusions --and not for the purposing of proving any point or starting an argument. EACH of us will have to make our own decision.

Again, thanks to all,
Bill
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:33 PM
dMabuse dMabuse is offline
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Quote:
and therefore BMW is limited to recommending a LL-04 5W-30 which happens to be Castrol because of my believed BMW "tie-in" with Castrol
Yeah except Mobil 1 makes a LL-04 5W-30 so you don't have to go Castrol.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:35 PM
d geek d geek is online now
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Bill- if you want to take your chances, Mobil 1 makes a 5W40 that meets the MB229.51 standard. It's sold alongside the 5W30 product that meets LL-04 @ PepBoys.
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:41 PM
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Bcube Bcube is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billowen View Post

What all of this means IMHO is that for the oil companies like Castrol, there just aren't enough of the BMW, MB or other diesels with filters being brought into the US yet to justify supplying an LL-04 5W-40 oil to the US market and therefore BMW is limited to recommending a LL-04 5W-30 which happens to be Castrol because of my believed BMW "tie-in" with Castrol, so the recommendation is limited to the Castrol OE 5W-30 (or BMW's brand which I'd bet is supplied by Castrol). After all, how big can the secondary market be, if most diesel cars with filters in the US are under a maintenance program.

Bill
Bill,

I disagree with your statement, because it isn't just BMW that has this issue. It seems to be more of an importation obstacle to get Euro oils into the U.S.

My Fiat, for example, requires Shell Helix Ultra. But that is pretty much unobtainable here. But Fiat authorizes a Quaker State Euro Blend for the U.S. (Shell owns Quaker and Pennzoil). But this isn't the same QS you find at Walmart. Only the Ferrari/Maserati dealers and a few distributors can get it. And it is expensive. Which is why I spent $140 for an oil kit to get the correct fluid into this car.

Just changed out the rear diff oil on my 335i. Took a ton of internet research and a 40 mile drive to the nearest Land Rover dealer to get two quarts of approved BMW gear oil. The BMW parts guy could only get the gear oil in 20 liter drums. A bit more than I wanted.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:25 PM
Marine5302 Marine5302 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe656 View Post
My first change was supposed to be done at 8k miles if I remember correctly but it maybe was 7k. The change was done due to time, hit 12 months, so was around 5300 miles on the car. The computer at first said 13k for the 2nd change but last I checked it says 12k miles for the second change now. I'd be really surprised if anyone ever had the computer say 15k miles for the change and stay at that statement all the way until that mileage.



Out of curiosity what does your computer say the next change should be done at?The factory says for my truck that it should be changed every 7500 miles. That is a turbocharged diesel as well and they use a partially synthetic oil. So it sees it's fair share of heat as well. At 134k miles I am still detecting no loss of oil between changes and had no failures of any parts that lead me to believe oil issues but never bothered to get the oil analyzed or anything. I actually sometimes stretch it to 15k miles but that was early on in the vehicles life when I ran full synthetic a few times. I do not really see how 10k of mainly highway miles would be bad but of course not like you can cause damage by changing the oil too often. Personally past 7500 miles is when I begin to question the filter.

Mine currently has the next change at 12,000 miles. In my post I recommended that Chris not go over 10,000 miles before the oil change. I know he puts a lot of highway miles on where as I drive a 80/20 split between city/highway.
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