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E90/E92/E93 M3 (2008 - 2014)
4th generation E90 M3 sedan, E92 M3 coupe and E93 M3 convertible. The last of the naturally aspirated M3s, powered by a 4.0 liter V8 making 414hp and 295 lb-ft of torque.

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  #76  
Old 02-03-2010, 03:06 PM
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fixed.
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  #77  
Old 02-03-2010, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TLudwig View Post
but you really can't go wrong either way unless you have very specific needs or wants.
Truer words have never been spoken in this or any other forum

I guess it really does come down to what you want and need, and what you're willing to sacrifice to get it. If I got the M3 coupe I really wanted, the price would be out of the ballpark for me even doing an ED (and remember, dealers don't often negotiate as readily on an M3). In order to get into the price range I want, I can either get a pretty much loaded 335iS on ED, or get a lightly optioned M3 sedan. I can probably stretch my budget a bit to handsomely equip the M3... but it's still a different car.

Then there's also the ongoing costs; the gas mileage isn't the best on the M3 and insurance is high... though the latter one might be a wash with the iS, but in my experience the old ZHP was insured as a 330i, which was a good thing.

Argh... choices... talking myself in and out of both cars. I should probably stop now
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  #78  
Old 02-03-2010, 10:30 PM
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Originally Posted by thumper_330 View Post
Truer words have never been spoken in this or any other forum

I guess it really does come down to what you want and need, and what you're willing to sacrifice to get it. If I got the M3 coupe I really wanted, the price would be out of the ballpark for me even doing an ED (and remember, dealers don't often negotiate as readily on an M3). In order to get into the price range I want, I can either get a pretty much loaded 335iS on ED, or get a lightly optioned M3 sedan. I can probably stretch my budget a bit to handsomely equip the M3... but it's still a different car.

Then there's also the ongoing costs; the gas mileage isn't the best on the M3 and insurance is high... though the latter one might be a wash with the iS, but in my experience the old ZHP was insured as a 330i, which was a good thing.

Argh... choices... talking myself in and out of both cars. I should probably stop now
I loaded my M3 up with options, but the only thing that was an absolute must for me was the tech package. If you can swing an M3 sedan with the tech package, I'd go for that. On the other hand, if (1) you don't feel completely comfortable with the cost of the M3, (2) you'd rather have the extra options than the extra performance or (3) you really want a coupe, then get a 335is and enjoy it (just don't get those awful wheels that come with it). Stressing paying for a car takes a lot of the enjoyment out of it, and the 335is will be far more fun that 99% of the cars on the road.

One thing to keep in mind is that insurance on the M3 may be cheaper than the 335. A couple of years ago, I got quotes on both from several insurance providers, and the premiums on the M3 were actually less. IIRC, I was told it was due to the 335 having turbos. OT: I remember when I insured my ZHP, they didn't even have that package in their computers, so they put it under the sport package. Made it fun when an uninsured bastard hit that car.

Gas mileage is another story. I get 15/21 mpg city/highway. Based on my experience with a loaner 335, it would be a few hundred dollars less per year in gas costs than the M3.
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  #79  
Old 02-04-2010, 08:56 AM
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OP, remember, a 335 with a JB3 will eat an M3
That's very true, but in the words of Jeremy Clarkson..."What happens when you show it some corners".

P.S. I saw a Jerez Black ///M3 at VOB BMW and I think I'm sold. 10 more months and I'll have either a Le Mans Blue M3 or a Space Gray M3 Coupe sitting in the Garage. It'll hopefully be here around August or September. (Earlier if my dealer lets me get out of my lease like 5 months early.)
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  #80  
Old 02-04-2010, 10:13 AM
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but the only thing that was an absolute must for me was the tech package.
What does M button brings to track driving, compared to EDC-only? I've testdriven one without tech package and the other with most aggressive settings, and I don't feel much of a difference(well, public ramps, only 30hrs of non-competitive track time). The only thing that's immediately noticeable is EDC.

Also, what is the stock sound system? L7?

The only reason I resist these options is iDrive - tried it again, still hate it...
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  #81  
Old 02-04-2010, 12:20 PM
Jeff_DML Jeff_DML is offline
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What does M button brings to track driving, compared to EDC-only? I've testdriven one without tech package and the other with most aggressive settings, and I don't feel much of a difference(well, public ramps, only 30hrs of non-competitive track time). The only thing that's immediately noticeable is EDC.

Also, what is the stock sound system? L7?

The only reason I resist these options is iDrive - tried it again, still hate it...
M button just allows instant configuration plus I think MDM(higher threshold DSC). The tech package also adds i-drive , with i-drive you can adjust power steering amount normal/sport, a extra throttle map sport-plus and the previously mentioned MDM. So with EDC only I think you lose those three options.

MDM is nice for the street and I run sport power steering, sport-plus throttle map seems kind of useless but have not tried it out much
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  #82  
Old 02-05-2010, 12:37 PM
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+1. The M3 sedan is absolutely the best bang for the buck in this price range in my opinion. Of course, that and $2 will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

I think though if you're sold on the coupe then there's not going to be much in it between the 335is and M3, particularly for a $7K difference (which can be a tipping point for a lot of people). Myself, I'm on the fence but actually leaning toward a DCT-equipped 335iS because (a) I don't NEED four doors and (b) in my general around-town driving the monstrous torque of the 335iS is going to be more usable. An M3 is going to pull ahead of the iS, but probably only at super legal speeds.

Having said that, the M3 still has the advantage in appearance, the GORGEOUS engine and the absolutely stunning handling (which the RFT's on the 335 completely ruin).
If you are paying cash, it's a no-brainer really. However the 335is would probably turn out much cheaper if one leases or finances, the crazy MFs on M3 from the end of 2008 are long gone
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  #83  
Old 02-06-2010, 11:37 AM
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I'll give the 335IS some love (some of which has already been mentioned):
  1. GREAT power band - I often feel that the regular 335 has more power around town than the M3, and the IS will be even more so. Yes, high revs are nice, but the 335 gives power at the green light.
  2. The kick of the turbos - sometimes is more fun than feeling the torque gradually build up over time
  3. Saving $$$ on purchase - you can take that extra money and go rent a Ferrari, go to a racing school, take a nice vacation, personalize your car w/ mods, buy a motorcycle, etc....
  4. Lower Insurance
  5. better gas mileage - the actual $$ doesn't bother me as much as the fact that I feel like I have to stop to refill my tank every other drive. It's a complete PITA, and having to do that less often would be very nice.
  6. The sound of turbos spooling up - I miss the sound from a previous turbo'd car
  7. Resale may be better than you think - The ZHP package of the E46 M3 holds its value a bit better than the regular one. I suspect the IS will fall into the same category.
  8. It doesn't have the slight drone of the engine when cruising down the freeway - At my typical freeway speed, 80 mph, my 6spd M3 is at 3600-3700 RPM. An automatic 328 is around 2600 RPM at 80. A 335 is somewhere in between (around 3000, I think?). There are times when the buzzing sound of the engine at cruising speed could be a bit annoying.

Am I going to go trade in my M3? Definitely not, for a number of reasons. But, my fiancee already has a 335, so I get the best of both worlds
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  #84  
Old 02-06-2010, 06:23 PM
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I'll give the 335IS some love (some of which has already been mentioned):
  1. GREAT power band - I often feel that the regular 335 has more power around town than the M3, and the IS will be even more so. Yes, high revs are nice, but the 335 gives power at the green light.
  2. The kick of the turbos - sometimes is more fun than feeling the torque gradually build up over time
  3. Saving $$$ on purchase - you can take that extra money and go rent a Ferrari, go to a racing school, take a nice vacation, personalize your car w/ mods, buy a motorcycle, etc....
  4. Lower Insurance
  5. better gas mileage - the actual $$ doesn't bother me as much as the fact that I feel like I have to stop to refill my tank every other drive. It's a complete PITA, and having to do that less often would be very nice.
  6. The sound of turbos spooling up - I miss the sound from a previous turbo'd car
  7. Resale may be better than you think - The ZHP package of the E46 M3 holds its value a bit better than the regular one. I suspect the IS will fall into the same category.
  8. It doesn't have the slight drone of the engine when cruising down the freeway - At my typical freeway speed, 80 mph, my 6spd M3 is at 3600-3700 RPM. An automatic 328 is around 2600 RPM at 80. A 335 is somewhere in between (around 3000, I think?). There are times when the buzzing sound of the engine at cruising speed could be a bit annoying.

Am I going to go trade in my M3? Definitely not, for a number of reasons. But, my fiancee already has a 335, so I get the best of both worlds
Good analysis..I really love a lot about my 335. The ///M faithful will shoot me for saying this, but I think my perfect car if I could waive a magic wand and create it would be an m3 coupe with 335is engine... ducking for cover now ;-)
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  #85  
Old 02-06-2010, 07:35 PM
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Good analysis..I really love a lot about my 335. The ///M faithful will shoot me for saying this, but I think my perfect car if I could waive a magic wand and create it would be an m3 coupe with 335is engine... ducking for cover now ;-)
An M3 coupe with a 335is engine is a rebadged Toyota!

If you want an M3 coupe with a 335is engine buy a Lexus!

The only reason any one would be an M3 Coupe with a 335i engine is because they can't afford an M3.

I was going to make a comment about the HPFP but we have a professional here on BF for that job. I am sure he will be returning from his bitters excursion shortly.

CA
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  #86  
Old 02-06-2010, 09:14 PM
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An M3 coupe with a 335is engine is a rebadged Toyota!

If you want an M3 coupe with a 335is engine buy a Lexus!

The only reason any one would be an M3 Coupe with a 335i engine is because they can't afford an M3.

I was going to make a comment about the HPFP but we have a professional here on BF for that job. I am sure he will be returning from his bitters excursion shortly.

CA
Money not the issue, believe it or not there is money outside of the swanky upper east side ;-) ...370 peak ft lbs. of torque vs. 295 is the issue. The S65 motor is a true motorsports engine...which does not make the best street engine for US driving in my opinion. If I could drive the autobahn and the Nurbergring all the time, then yes hands down S65 engine would be it. Yes HPFP, injectors, carbon buildup are all issues with the N54...I know all about it as I have a 335i, although I have experienced none of those issues. The new M3 engine may look a lot more like an N54 than an S65...wanna bet ;-) so I'm just ahead of my time!
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  #87  
Old 02-06-2010, 09:49 PM
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Money not the issue, believe it or not there is money outside of the swanky upper east side ;-) ...370 peak ft lbs. of torque vs. 295 is the issue. The S65 motor is a true motorsports engine...which does not make the best street engine for US driving in my opinion. If I could drive the autobahn and the Nurbergring all the time, then yes hands down S65 engine would be it. Yes HPFP, injectors, carbon buildup are all issues with the N54...I know all about it as I have a 335i, although I have experienced none of those issues. The new M3 engine may look a lot more like an N54 than an S65...wanna bet ;-) so I'm just ahead of my time!
Surely you did not take my post seriously.

I just figured I would get all of the stock snide Bimmerfest responses into one post.

BTW the vast majority of the people on the "Swaky Upper East Side" don't have cars.

CA
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  #88  
Old 02-06-2010, 10:07 PM
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Surely you did not take my post seriously.

I just figured I would get all of the stock snide Bimmerfest responses into one post.

BTW the vast majority of the people on the "Swaky Upper East Side" don't have cars.

CA
haha, ok, I thought some of those lines sounded familiar and they did seem out of character for you.

Ya, was born in Manhatten...'nother part of town tho. So how does a car nut get stuck in a place like that with a bunch of non car people ;-)
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Old 02-06-2010, 10:20 PM
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haha, ok, I thought some of those lines sounded familiar and they did seem out of character for you.

Ya, was born in Manhatten...'nother part of town tho. So how does a car nut get stuck in a place like that with a bunch of non car people ;-)
I grew up upstate and then spent several years in rural New England. I got my first car when I was 16 and it has been downhill ever since.

I have always kept a car in the city. I started going up to Lime Rock (Skip Barber School) about 8 years ago and joined the club when it was founded in 2008.

CA
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  #90  
Old 02-06-2010, 11:25 PM
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It's like this.................... an M3 is like a god!!!!! All powerful able to respond to any road conditon. 50% of an M car is what we call M-specific not like any other production models. M cars are special designed for those who demand more, and need more. It's not about a big engine or the sound of the exhaust.........It's about the Harmony between Man and Machine. M Designers live and breathe performance as if gas was in there veins. They have invested their lives to produce a car that can transform its everyday driver into a true performance driver, never settling for status quo. The smile you will get when your foot presses on the throttle, and the G forces that violently slam you into your seat reminding you that you are a mere human...................The M car awakens your slumbered soul as you devour the corners, alerting every instinct in you to stop.... but you know you can't. The techincal data is always impressive etc etc... But it's about the passion that is revealed as you drive an M-car. In the final analysis I ask you ONE Question?......................................... .Do you posses the will to harness, the power to control, and the skill to handle this SUBLIME EPIPHANY known as an M car!!!! To this end it will give a true M OWNER, the unknown pleasure over and over again.
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  #91  
Old 02-07-2010, 12:01 AM
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It's like this.................... an M3 is like a god!!!!! All powerful able to respond to any road conditon. 50% of an M car is what we call M-specific not like any other production models. M cars are special designed for those who demand more, and need more. It's not about a big engine or the sound of the exhaust.........It's about the Harmony between Man and Machine. M Designers live and breathe performance as if gas was in there veins. They have invested their lives to produce a car that can transform its everyday driver into a true performance driver, never settling for status quo. The smile you will get when your foot presses on the throttle, and the G forces that violently slam you into your seat reminding you that you are a mere human...................The M car awakens your slumbered soul as you devour the corners, alerting every instinct in you to stop.... but you know you can't. The techincal data is always impressive etc etc... But it's about the passion that is revealed as you drive an M-car. In the final analysis I ask you ONE Question?......................................... .Do you posses the will to harness, the power to control, and the skill to handle this SUBLIME EPIPHANY known as an M car!!!! To this end it will give a true M OWNER, the unknown pleasure over and over again.
Aparently they also have the effect of making you delusional by merely thinking about them.

But seriously if there was a Creative Writing award on Bimmerfest I would nominate your post. It really does bring new literary standards to Bimmerfest.


Owning an M does not make you a great driver any more than owning a Fender Stratocaster makes you Eric Clapton.
but owning an M3 will certainly give anyone incentive to hone their skills.

M3 is a great car and I understand why you are so excited about getting one. I'm sorry the M3 was not available when I bought the 335i


CA
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  #92  
Old 02-07-2010, 12:09 AM
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I have an M3 and a Cayman S. Both great cars but the Cayman has better balance and easier to drive fast. The Cayman is IMO the best handling car available today.

I also have a Chateram as a dedicated track car. Drive one of those around a track and you will find a new religion (and it wont have a B an M or a W in it).

Picked up the M3 on ED a few weeks ago. I had a great time tooling aroung Europe but unfortunately when it gets to the States it is going to sit in the garage with the Cayman till Spring.
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  #93  
Old 02-07-2010, 12:17 AM
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I have an M3 and a Cayman S. Both great cars but the Cayman has better balance and easier to drive fast. The Cayman is IMO the best handling car available today.

I also have a Chateram as a dedicated track car. Drive one of those around a track and you will find a new religion (and it wont have a B an M or a W in it).

Picked up the M3 on ED a few weeks ago. I had a great time tooling aroung Europe but unfortunately when it gets to the States it is going to sit in the garage with the Cayman till Spring.
how do you get better balance than 50/50 I'd be tempted by a P car but I need to be able to fit a mt bike inside my car.
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Old 02-07-2010, 03:59 AM
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how do you get better balance than 50/50 I'd be tempted by a P car but I need to be able to fit a mt bike inside my car.
I had the 924 Turbo and then the 928GTS (1995) both great cars for there time and quick,however I test drove the Aston and Porsche C4S, they lacked IMO and did NOT drive better than my M3 E90 with M-DCT, thats one of the reasons I bought it.
I drove the Panamera and found it was way OVER PRICED. Just my 2P
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Old 02-07-2010, 09:09 AM
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how do you get better balance than 50/50 I'd be tempted by a P car but I need to be able to fit a mt bike inside my car.
First of all we are comparing two outstanding cars and if this becomes a Cayman vs. M3 discussion I will be on the winning side regardless of where it goes since I have one of each.

The Cayman has a reasonable amount of luggage space but is no where near as practical as the M3.

I am not talking about weight distribution I am talking about balance. You would have to drive both yourself to see what I mean.

CAyman is a fun car as is the M3 but the M3 is far more practical , particulary the sedan which gives up no performance to the coupe, has four doors and a usable back seat and a sizable trunk.
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  #96  
Old 02-07-2010, 10:16 AM
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First of all we are comparing two outstanding cars and if this becomes a Cayman vs. M3 discussion I will be on the winning side regardless of where it goes since I have one of each.

The Cayman has a reasonable amount of luggage space but is no where near as practical as the M3.

I am not talking about weight distribution I am talking about balance. You would have to drive both yourself to see what I mean.

CA
This IMO is a "needs must thing", porsche handle very well full stop, probably that little better standard. Practicality wise M3 wins.
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:03 AM
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I have an M3 and a Cayman S. Both great cars but the Cayman has better balance and easier to drive fast. The Cayman is IMO the best handling car available today.

I also have a Chateram as a dedicated track car. Drive one of those around a track and you will find a new religion (and it wont have a B an M or a W in it).

Picked up the M3 on ED a few weeks ago. I had a great time tooling aroung Europe but unfortunately when it gets to the States it is going to sit in the garage with the Cayman till Spring.
The Cayman S was on my list. Then I test drove it and found out that I can't use that sucker as my daily driver because I need back seats for friends or when I go out with my sis and my mom and dad, and the second reason is that it rides really rough for a DD. That car is meant to be a weekend car, and I am not in the financial position to own 2 cars at the same time. One day, maybe I will though.
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  #98  
Old 02-08-2010, 11:09 AM
outie outie is offline
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I have a Cayman S and sure everyone's impression is that it feels rough, I eventually got used to it as a DD. I also drive minivan and SUV on the weekend but once I hop back in the CS it just feels normal to me.
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:33 AM
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TGray5 TGray5 is offline
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I have a Cayman S and sure everyone's impression is that it feels rough, I eventually got used to it as a DD. I also drive minivan and SUV on the weekend but once I hop back in the CS it just feels normal to me.
My experience is that all Porsches ride very firm, although I hear that's changing with adjustable suspension damping now. One review even said the GT3 could be a daily driver... ok Porsche fans, here's the new 997 turbo..

http://www.autoweek.com/article/2010...NEVA/100209927
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Old 02-08-2010, 11:39 AM
CliffJumper CliffJumper is offline
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Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
The Cayman S was on my list. Then I test drove it and found out that I can't use that sucker as my daily driver because I need back seats for friends or when I go out with my sis and my mom and dad, and the second reason is that it rides really rough for a DD. That car is meant to be a weekend car, and I am not in the financial position to own 2 cars at the same time. One day, maybe I will though.
I'm not going to claim that the M3 is better than a Cayman S, but I will say that the M3 Sedan is absolutely, completely, totally, the perfect single car FOR ME. It's ridiculously fun to drive and super practical!

It's not (overly) flashy, and I can carry around 4 friends/family w/o having to drive one of their annoying cars instead (like I used to when I had a G35 coupe). I throw our bikes on the roof, I throw my snowboard on the roof (or fold down the rear seat if I have fewer people). I can easily throw on snow tires and cables (when required in Tahoe).

It's comfortable and practical for daily commutes and long distance cruising... AND, when I just want to have some fun in the canyons, I can't tell that I'm not driving some small 2 door sports car!!

Yes, I drink the M3 sedan Kool-Aid and my car (at least in my head) every day


P.S. Having said that, do I wish I could afford to have a stable of 10 cars, each specialized for different tasks/moods? Absolutely... but in the Land of "only 1-parking spot for you!!" Nazis and "my tiny condo costs as much as most mansions in the Mid-West" (a.k.a. West L.A.), I have to make due with only 1 car...

Last edited by CliffJumper; 02-08-2010 at 11:45 AM.
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