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  #1  
Old 01-18-2010, 02:42 PM
jjet670 jjet670 is offline
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Run flat tire with nail, can it be patched?

Hi.
I have a run flat tire (328i with sport option) that has a nail on it. Tire Pressure Monitor lights off once in a while.
I brought the car to Discount tire shop and asked whether it could be patched. The guy told me that it is too close to sidewall to patch and I should buy a brand new one.
As far as I can see, the nail is at least one inch from the sidewall as can be seen in the picture. Can it be either plugged or patched?
If I have to buy one, which store might be the best option? The BMW dealer quoted me for about $600.
I appreciate your suggestion.
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  #2  
Old 01-18-2010, 02:54 PM
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GarySL GarySL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjet670 View Post
Can it be either plugged or patched?
Take it to your local tire shop & ask them. My BMW dealer told me the same thing that the tire needed to be replaced when I picked up a nail (company line). But my SA said just go the the tire guy who can repair RFTs & have them patch it. $20 later I'm back on the road.

gl
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Last edited by GarySL; 01-18-2010 at 02:54 PM. Reason: me
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:00 PM
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GN2 GN2 is offline
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Despite what some people will say, RFT can be patched. However, as I understand it, the nail can't be in the sidewall or near to the sidewall. You picture seems to suggest that you will have to try and see if it works. Good luck.
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:03 PM
jjet670 jjet670 is offline
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Wow, I didn't expect this fast responses. You guys rock. Just one more question though. Can I insist the tire be patched even though tire shop guy says that I must replace it? The last time when I visited tire discount shop, I kinda felt that he tried to sell me tires than fixing it up for me.
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Old 01-18-2010, 03:04 PM
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the328 the328 is offline
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can be plugged or patched. I have a plug arount the same spot in my Audi rear right wheel for about 4 months now and recently logged a 500 mile round trip to Lake Tahoe without any problems, sometimes going over 90mph on highway and a temperature being as low as 24 in the mountains.

Last edited by the328; 01-18-2010 at 03:07 PM.
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  #6  
Old 01-18-2010, 04:20 PM
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crazyeyeskilla crazyeyeskilla is offline
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As long as the nail is in the tread, you can patch it - just make sure a very good shop does it. I've had 3 nails in the same tire during a particularly frustrating 4 month period. No way I was going to buy new tires 3 times. The only downside to patching them is that the patch might come unglued if you regularly drive at 100+ MPH and get the tires really hot. Unfortunately, this isn't a concern for most of us USA dwellers.
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Old 01-18-2010, 04:47 PM
SStinman SStinman is offline
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Go to a different tire shop, if its in the tread pattern (as your picture shows) then its a no brainier. But you can't make a tech do it if he doesn't want to. What you can say if they don't do it then there is no way you'll buy your next set of tires from them. They will automatically be excluded from your consideration since they didn't want to help you patch a tire.
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Old 01-18-2010, 05:03 PM
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craigr craigr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SStinman View Post
Go to a different tire shop, if its in the tread pattern (as your picture shows) then its a no brainier. But you can't make a tech do it if he doesn't want to. What you can say if they don't do it then there is no way you'll buy your next set of tires from them. They will automatically be excluded from your consideration since they didn't want to help you patch a tire.
Guess this is pretty tricky for the tire shop, maybe they have the fear of lawyers and of Bridgestone punishing them somehow.

cr
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Old 01-18-2010, 05:23 PM
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By the way, ask for the plug. I have no imperical proof of this but it is evidently better to plug the hole rather than patching the hole. Perhaps someone with more experience can explain what that it so or why it is incorrect.
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  #10  
Old 01-18-2010, 05:42 PM
jjet670 jjet670 is offline
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I went to Goodyear store today after reading your suggestions. The technician said it could be patched, and the total cost is $20. I should have asked you guys earlier and many thanks to those gave me their recommendations.
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  #11  
Old 01-18-2010, 05:45 PM
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DonnaBlackson DonnaBlackson is offline
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i had a nail in mine once.. they found it during service once.. they pulled it out ( didnt plug it, they said they would never plug a run flat tire ( dealer). anyway, so they pulled it and nothing ever happened, never lost air or tire pressure at all even after they pulled the nail..
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2010, 05:46 PM
midlife_crisis midlife_crisis is offline
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Angry Lots of experence here

I became a run flat expert from no fault of my own. My'07 335i lost 12 tires over 40K miles.
Here is the deal:

Runflats are soft and get nails easily, DUH but a plug is better than a patch due to tire compostion of RF. I presume these are Potenzas?

Ok, so if you run these things more than 10 miles( usually sensor takes 4-5 miles) of average road you will need to look inside the tire and see if the side wall was destroyed. Easy to see because it looks like a crack that you would see on a pond of ice. If it is really big and bits of rubber are coming off you are done. Aside from the former you can plug it. Sears sells the kits but buy two of the tools because you will destroy the installation tool as the rubber is tough to get through.
I learned the hard way so learn from me. Dealers and tire dealers are under insurance guidlines about plugging these bad boys- they are liable if they let you go on old rubber that has holes.
Mom and pop gas stations are different- no insurance rules or do it yourself.
The problem with DIY is needing a really good tire machine to pull that rubber of the rim and re install it so you can inspect inside.

Good luck- I feel your pain.

MC

Last edited by midlife_crisis; 01-18-2010 at 06:13 PM. Reason: Spelllingg
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2010, 05:59 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midlife_crisis View Post
I became a run flat expert from no fault of my own. My'07 335i lost 12 tires over 40K miles.
Here is the deal:

Runflats are soft and get nails easily, DUH but a plug is better than a patch due to tire compostion of RF. I presume these are Potenzas?

Ok, so if you run these things more than 10 miles( usually sensor takes 4-5 miles) of average road you will need to look inside the tire and see if the side wall was destroyed. Easy to see because it looks like a crack that you would see on a pond of ice. If it is really big and bits of rubber are coming off you are done. Aside from the former you can plug it. Sears sells the kits but buy two of the tools because you will destroy the installation tool beacuse the rubber is tough to get through.
I learned the hard way so learn from me. Dealers and tire dealers are under insurance guidlines about pluggung these bad boys- they are liable if they let you go on old rubber that has holes.
Mom and pop gas stations are different- no insurance rules or do it yourself.
The problem with DIY is needing a really good tire machine to pull that rubber of the rim and re install it so you can inspect inside.

Good luck- I feel your pain.

MC
Hi midlife. About this sentence "usually sensor takes 4-5 miles", I assume you mean it takes that long to inform the driver that there is a problem? If so, that is partially correct.
Normal leaks (nails, valve stems, bead corrosion, etc.) will take a few miles to inform the TPMS computer because the computer only wakes each sensor up and asks for a pressure reading periodically. BUT, if there is a catastrophic failure where there is suddden and significant pressure loss the monitor comes to life and tells the computer immediately. Then the dashboard warning of major failure comes on right away.
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2010, 06:11 PM
midlife_crisis midlife_crisis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Hi midlife. About this sentence "usually sensor takes 4-5 miles", I assume you mean it takes that long to inform the driver that there is a problem? If so, that is partially correct.
Normal leaks (nails, valve stems, bead corrosion, etc.) will take a few miles to inform the TPMS computer because the computer only wakes each sensor up and asks for a pressure reading periodically. BUT, if there is a catastrophic failure where there is suddden and significant pressure loss the monitor comes to life and tells the computer immediately. Then the dashboard warning of major failure comes on right away.
Yes, I agree. I was leaning more toward the nail in tire issue which is normally slow.
Thanks for clarifying.

I actually got bubbles 80% of the time from rim pinch! Then there is no warning until it is too late! That sux....

Soooo glad I got tire and rim warranty for 400 bucks..
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2010, 06:14 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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If anyone is interested here's why a sidewall leak shouldn't be repaired. Inside the rubber of a typical car's radial tire are layers of various materials. When the tire is being made these layers are varied by position in the tire. The sidewalls are usually one to two layers thick and made of a synthetic cord such as polyester. The tread wraps are usally two to three layers thick and include at least one or more layers of stainless steel fabric.
Obviously the tread area is far stronger than the sidewall area. When a nail punctures this area it rarely cuts the steel fabric, it just moves it aside like a safety pin passing through your shirt. When the nail is removed the steel fabric wants to move back into its original shape. This is why when we pull a nail out we actually have to make the hole bigger with a ream before we can put a plug in. Once the self vulcanizing plug is properly in place it is going to stay there forever. First because it bonds itself to the rubber, and second because the steel fabric threads move back together as the tire flexes and locks the plug in place like a Chinese finger puzzle.
Every single manufacturer of RFTs says not to plug them. I have been plugging them since they were invented and not had a single failure. Your decision.

Edit: It is sometimes neccessary to plug a tire from the inside using a slightly different method, but the concept is the same.

Last edited by DSXMachina; 01-18-2010 at 06:18 PM.
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  #16  
Old 01-18-2010, 06:44 PM
asus389 asus389 is offline
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Pro Tip: Buy road hazard insurance from discount tire so that if you get a flat they have to fix it or replace it for free. You can buy the insurance from them even if you didn't originally get tires from them. Its usually $20 per tire (I think) - IIRC it was $80 for 4 tires on my car. It has saved me 3 or 4 times from having to buy a new tire - they replaced it for free in all cases. Its honored at any Discount tire or American Tire place - there are lots of them.
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  #17  
Old 01-18-2010, 11:18 PM
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A question to tire-fixing gurus. I have an OEM RFT Potenza with a nail in the tread (otherwise true and sound) that I had taken off and kept just in case. Well, this "case" has arrived - one of the tires developed a bubble on a sidewall. My idea is to pull the nail out (it still is there), then plug *and* patch the tire, now that it is unmounted and accessible from the inside. Yay or Nay?
-------------

EDIT: Yay! Such is the advice from experts. Plug AND patch if you can.
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Last edited by vadim; 01-20-2010 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 01-19-2010, 01:07 AM
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I've did a lot of research and I've asked this same question to a lot of people. The conclusion that I came to was that you can actually patch a run flat tire, but the downside to that is that that tire won't be a run flat tire anymore because patching it will structurally change the tire. The sidewall can not and should not be patched. It should be replaced.
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  #19  
Old 01-19-2010, 07:23 PM
poiney poiney is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=- View Post
I've did a lot of research and I've asked this same question to a lot of people. The conclusion that I came to was that you can actually patch a run flat tire, but the downside to that is that that tire won't be a run flat tire anymore because patching it will structurally change the tire. The sidewall can not and should not be patched. It should be replaced.
That would be my guess -- that it's no longer strong or safe enough to prevent catastrophic blow out. However, due to flexure, I would guess that a patch on the sidewall might be much less reliable than on the tread portion.

Does anyone know whether or not tire shops dissuade or warn customers that sidewall patches don't typically last well? I'm just curious.
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Old 01-19-2010, 09:07 PM
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If the sidewalls are intact, a (reasonably small) puncture in the tread won't affect the tire's run-flat capabilities. It is all in the sidewalls. If a plugged/patched RF tire loses air, it will still be able to make those 50-80 miles just like a new one. Another thing is the speed rating - a plugged/patched Z-rated tire is no longer Z-rated as the damaged area compromises its ability to withstand high speed-related loads.
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Last edited by vadim; 01-20-2010 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 01-23-2010, 12:55 PM
jcwolfie jcwolfie is offline
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Hi, From my experience here in UK, most of the big tyre repair and exhaust centres always tell you that you can't repair RFT, but its all just a scam so they fet commission on selling a new tyre. Then they sell the tyres to a small tyre repairer and they fix them and sell them as part worn but in reality they are mostly perfect and at a 80% saving from a new tyre. So always find a garage that will repair them for about 10. Don't be fooled.
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Old 01-23-2010, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjet670 View Post
Hi.
I have a run flat tire (328i with sport option) that has a nail on it. Tire Pressure Monitor lights off once in a while.
I brought the car to Discount tire shop and asked whether it could be patched. The guy told me that it is too close to sidewall to patch and I should buy a brand new one.
As far as I can see, the nail is at least one inch from the sidewall as can be seen in the picture. Can it be either plugged or patched?
If I have to buy one, which store might be the best option? The BMW dealer quoted me for about $600.
I appreciate your suggestion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjet670 View Post
Wow, I didn't expect this fast responses. You guys rock. Just one more question though. Can I insist the tire be patched even though tire shop guy says that I must replace it? The last time when I visited tire discount shop, I kinda felt that he tried to sell me tires than fixing it up for me.
I'm a little late to this party, but for the benefit of the OP - Discount Tire should be willing to patch it for you with no problem as long as it hasn't been driven with the air pressure so low that it has caused the interior of the sidewall to begin to degrade. If that has happened they won't patch it and will tell you that you need to replace the tire.
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  #23  
Old 01-25-2010, 08:40 AM
cariduros cariduros is offline
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Interesting. I have the BMW tire warranty program and I wonder it they'd insist on me getting a new tire (which would be covered) or if they'd just patch it up because it was cheaper. You never know with this stuff I guess.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:28 PM
alanmart alanmart is offline
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Run Flat

I recenlty leased a 328i X Drive and took the BMW tire protection plan. In the past few months I have had two flats. One was a small nail. The second happened today ans was a short, yet wide screw and was NOT near the sidewall. On both occasions BMW repaired the tire and sent me on my way. I wonder now if they were supposed to replace the tire under the terms of the "fine print" which I did not review again until tonight. I plan to inquire with the manager about this.

I would be suspicious if they recommend replacement except when you are under the warranty which I understand in my state (CT) they have underwritten themselves.

Any comments are appreciated!

Alan
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Old 10-28-2010, 05:21 AM
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I started my car one morning and the low tire pressure light IMMEDIATELY came on. Walked around the car, and the tires all looked good. Had to use a pressure gauge, and found one with 0 psi. Big nail in tread. Filled it with compressor and drove to Discount Tire. They were going to fix it until they pulled it off the rim. It had a large crack on the inside wall of the tire opposite the tread. Not in the area of the nail puncture, either. I'm glad they pulled it instead of just plugging it. Ordered a set of non RFT, and they mounted a used tire on my rim to get me by until the new ones came in. The tech said they usually have no problems fixing RFTs unless it's close to the sidewall. My nail was right in the middle of the tread. It was probably a Bridgestone manufacture defect, as I don't think I drove it while flat as the monitor didn't come on until the morning after the air leaked out. It would have illuminated the day before if I was driving it with low pressure.
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