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E46 (1999 - 2006)
The fourth generation 3 Series (E46 chassis) was introduced in 1999 and set the standard for engineering and performance during it's years of production including being named to Car & Driver's 10 best list every one of those years! ! -- View the E46 Wiki

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  #1  
Old 01-18-2010, 02:53 PM
msouren msouren is offline
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SES & misfires after VANOS seals and rattle fix

Recently, I replaced my VANOS seals and rattle issue with a kit from beisansystems.com . I performed the repair because my car suffered from cold weather jolts in the winter time and this was extremely annoying. So I installed the kit, and now the cold weather idle problems are gone. However, now my engine is misfiring on all cylinders.

I receive P301-P306 codes and occasionally a P300 code. I also have a P1520 code, which is resulting from a faulty value on the camshaft position sensor. I was told that this was supposed to go away after 200 city miles or so, but that is not the case. Before repairing the seals and rattle, I replaced my old sensor with a brand new OEM one from Pelican Parts. I am not really sure why the ECU is throwing a code for this, maybe you guys can give me some insight. Is it possible that the new sensor I installed is faulty?

The engine will consistently misfire when sitting idle, but when you give the car gas its fine. The longer the car sits idle, the misfiring continues to get worse until I either give the car gas, or shut off the engine and restart. When the car first starts up at around 1000 RPMs there is no misfire, but as the RPMs dip lower the misfire begins. However, sometimes giving the gas does not solve the problem. There was one occasion yesterday when the car misfired while I was driving it, I had complete power loss and the engine was shaking a lot. Once I pulled over and restarted the car it was fine, but I don't trust it enough to drive right now.

Here is was I've replaced so far in the past, so these items should not be an issue in terms of vacuum leaks or malfunction:

-Crankcase Vent Valve and all associated hoses - 3000-5000 miles ago
-ICV intake boot - 3000-5000 miles ago
-Spark Plugs - 15000 miles ago
-Camshaft Position Sensor (exhaust) - 500 miles ago
-Secondary Air Pump solenoid vacuum hose - 500 miles ago

I have not replaced the ignition coils yet. Is it possible that one bad ignition coil can go bad on all cylinders? If not, I don't think that all 6 coils would go bad at the same time.

Thank you all for your help in advance.
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  #2  
Old 01-19-2010, 07:12 PM
bwagner0609 bwagner0609 is offline
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is it possible the crankshaft/camshafts may have slipped or turned slightly when you were fixing the VANOS?

I am getting ready to do mine soon and I am not totally familiar with the procedure yet. I know I've read my repair manual and it says you should to put the engine at TDC before removing the VANOS - did you do that?

just throwing it out there - I'm really not sure.

maybe I'll have a better clue next week after I've done mine. Hope I don't find the same issue you have... (although I'm only replacing the seals on mine)

Good luck
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  #3  
Old 01-19-2010, 11:04 PM
sonspot sonspot is offline
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sorry but i did not read through it all, are the plugs in right, did you get oil on them, is everything connected right.. did you do all the repair before or after the vanos seals. seems like your missing something.. clean the boots and plugs before spending any more money..
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  #4  
Old 01-21-2010, 07:48 AM
3beemers 3beemers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msouren View Post
Recently, I replaced my VANOS seals and rattle issue with a kit from beisansystems.com . I performed the repair because my car suffered from cold weather jolts in the winter time and this was extremely annoying. So I installed the kit, and now the cold weather idle problems are gone. However, now my engine is misfiring on all cylinders.

I receive P301-P306 codes and occasionally a P300 code. I also have a P1520 code, which is resulting from a faulty value on the camshaft position sensor. I was told that this was supposed to go away after 200 city miles or so, but that is not the case. Before repairing the seals and rattle, I replaced my old sensor with a brand new OEM one from Pelican Parts. I am not really sure why the ECU is throwing a code for this, maybe you guys can give me some insight. Is it possible that the new sensor I installed is faulty?

The engine will consistently misfire when sitting idle, but when you give the car gas its fine. The longer the car sits idle, the misfiring continues to get worse until I either give the car gas, or shut off the engine and restart. When the car first starts up at around 1000 RPMs there is no misfire, but as the RPMs dip lower the misfire begins. However, sometimes giving the gas does not solve the problem. There was one occasion yesterday when the car misfired while I was driving it, I had complete power loss and the engine was shaking a lot. Once I pulled over and restarted the car it was fine, but I don't trust it enough to drive right now.

Here is was I've replaced so far in the past, so these items should not be an issue in terms of vacuum leaks or malfunction:

-Crankcase Vent Valve and all associated hoses - 3000-5000 miles ago
-ICV intake boot - 3000-5000 miles ago
-Spark Plugs - 15000 miles ago
-Camshaft Position Sensor (exhaust) - 500 miles ago
-Secondary Air Pump solenoid vacuum hose - 500 miles ago

I have not replaced the ignition coils yet. Is it possible that one bad ignition coil can go bad on all cylinders? If not, I don't think that all 6 coils would go bad at the same time.

Thank you all for your help in advance.
I did this VANOS job last weekend. In disassembling it, I removed the camshaft position sensor prior to cleaning the vanos with soap and water. Used compressed air to blow the water and started with the assembly. Camshaft sensor was inspected and cleaned with towel and reinstalled. Old 02 sensors were removed,...unfortunately, when I pulled the new ones from the box, I found out I have ordered the wrong ones. So I reinstalled the old 02 sensors. The dreaded SES light lit up. Cleared it out, restarted and SES came back.
I decided to cut the wires of both 02 sensors, exchanged the plug end....and everything went well.

Regarding your camshaft position sensor, I believe you will have to change it. My experience with this part is that it can be erratic, good now, bad later and good again.

Good luck.
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  #5  
Old 01-21-2010, 07:53 AM
3beemers 3beemers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwagner0609 View Post
is it possible the crankshaft/camshafts may have slipped or turned slightly when you were fixing the VANOS?

I am getting ready to do mine soon and I am not totally familiar with the procedure yet. I know I've read my repair manual and it says you should to put the engine at TDC before removing the VANOS - did you do that?

just throwing it out there - I'm really not sure.

maybe I'll have a better clue next week after I've done mine. Hope I don't find the same issue you have... (although I'm only replacing the seals on mine)

Good luck
Interesting...I did not put the engine at TDC before removing the VANOS. Not a hard job, I practically just followed Beisan's instructions. I like the part where I sit on the dining table renewing the seals. Engine runs smooth, more power and gas mileage is up.

Good luck.
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  #6  
Old 01-21-2010, 09:50 AM
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J. Kidd J. Kidd is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3beemers View Post
Interesting...I did not put the engine at TDC before removing the VANOS. Not a hard job, I practically just followed Beisan's instructions. I like the part where I sit on the dining table renewing the seals. Engine runs smooth, more power and gas mileage is up.

Good luck.
I did not put mine at TDC when I replaced my VANOS unit either. It wasn't in the instructions and I can not see any reason as to why you need to do this.
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  #7  
Old 01-21-2010, 11:06 AM
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Brian McKinney Brian McKinney is offline
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with dual vanos its not needed
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  #8  
Old 01-25-2010, 04:57 PM
msouren msouren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwagner0609 View Post
is it possible the crankshaft/camshafts may have slipped or turned slightly when you were fixing the VANOS?

I am getting ready to do mine soon and I am not totally familiar with the procedure yet. I know I've read my repair manual and it says you should to put the engine at TDC before removing the VANOS - did you do that?

just throwing it out there - I'm really not sure.

maybe I'll have a better clue next week after I've done mine. Hope I don't find the same issue you have... (although I'm only replacing the seals on mine)

Good luck
As everyone else stated, its not needed for the double VANOS procedure.
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  #9  
Old 01-25-2010, 04:59 PM
msouren msouren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonspot View Post
sorry but i did not read through it all, are the plugs in right, did you get oil on them, is everything connected right.. did you do all the repair before or after the vanos seals. seems like your missing something.. clean the boots and plugs before spending any more money..
Yes, it could definitely be the boots/plugs. I just bought a new Bosch plug and boot for testing purposes. Check out my other post on beisansystems, you can see what I've done already: http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/751618

I did all of those repairs before the VANOS seals and rattle.
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  #10  
Old 01-25-2010, 05:01 PM
msouren msouren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3beemers View Post
I did this VANOS job last weekend. In disassembling it, I removed the camshaft position sensor prior to cleaning the vanos with soap and water. Used compressed air to blow the water and started with the assembly. Camshaft sensor was inspected and cleaned with towel and reinstalled. Old 02 sensors were removed,...unfortunately, when I pulled the new ones from the box, I found out I have ordered the wrong ones. So I reinstalled the old 02 sensors. The dreaded SES light lit up. Cleared it out, restarted and SES came back.
I decided to cut the wires of both 02 sensors, exchanged the plug end....and everything went well.

Regarding your camshaft position sensor, I believe you will have to change it. My experience with this part is that it can be erratic, good now, bad later and good again.

Good luck.
I just changed it before the procedure with a new OEM sensor. The code that is showing now points to the same sensor, it doesn't make any sense to me.
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  #11  
Old 01-26-2010, 02:16 PM
3beemers 3beemers is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msouren View Post
I just changed it before the procedure with a new OEM sensor. The code that is showing now points to the same sensor, it doesn't make any sense to me.
If the old sensor is not cracked, I would try switching it knowing it's quite expensive.
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  #12  
Old 01-26-2010, 03:35 PM
msouren msouren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3beemers View Post
If the old sensor is not cracked, I would try switching it knowing it's quite expensive.
I wish. I've read that there is a good chance that the sensor is bad right out of the box, but I can't find the old one for the life of me.

Below is almost an exact copy of my recent post to beisansystems.

Here is a most recent status update:

There has been an interesting turn of events. In my previous post I stated that the car still misfired with the VANOS disconnected at both solenoids. I tried this test again, and now there are NO OBD codes for misfiring or anything else at all. Although there appears to be a slight misfire at idle, the car seems to run better without the VANOS connected. It is possible that the misfiring is not pronounced enough with the VANOS disconnected and there is still something else causing the problem. If the VANOS isn't the problem, why would there be no misfire codes in the module? And also why are there now no codes for both solenoids being disconnected?

Rajaie has been a great help with helping me diagnose the problem, he sent me a list of potential problems with the double VANOS engine.

CPS sensors - both OEM, yes. The exhaust sensor I changed right before the VANOS seals. The intake sensor has not presented any problems to me

ICV & DISA - are both reasonably clean and in good shape.

Spark plugs - am using NGK now, are all tight. Changed 15k ago when I bought the car.

Ignition Coils - Possibly the problem, I hope? I know I have the old Bremi coils, I just bought a new Bosch one to test them out. Misfire codes on all cylinders but #1 with the VANOS connected. Would a bad coil on 1 cylinder cause misfires on all of the rest?

ICV air intake boot - replaced this with the ICV. Is in pristine condition

Other air intake boots - Seem to be fine, checked with flashlight.

CCV - Changed this already. I tried both tests you explained, I can hear oil bubbling when blowing into the hose. The plastic bag was not sucked in at all in the oil fill hole.

MAF sensor: Disconnected, a slight misfire was still present. Reconnecting made no change.

Need to check: Air filter (I doubt its that), Fuel filter. Bad O2 sensors would not cause a misfire, correct?
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  #13  
Old 01-31-2010, 06:52 AM
shalyndavis23 shalyndavis23 is offline
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did you ever figure out the problem?
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  #14  
Old 01-31-2010, 07:06 AM
mujjuman mujjuman is offline
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I'm curious about this too... did you ever figure the problem?
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  #15  
Old 01-31-2010, 09:46 AM
msouren msouren is offline
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No. My car is currently sitting disassembled, I am convinced it is the VANOS. Today I will be taking it apart and looking at it closely, and if I can't find anything obvious then I will most likely send the unit to Dr. VANOS.

There are a few more things I need to check first, such as pre-cat O2 sensors and a final vacuum leak check, even though I've looked very thoroughly already.

I tested my coils yesterday as well, they are all good. I can disconnect each one at a time and the engine noticeably bogs with the loss of a cylinder.
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  #16  
Old 01-31-2010, 05:01 PM
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smolck smolck is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msouren View Post
No. My car is currently sitting disassembled, I am convinced it is the VANOS. Today I will be taking it apart and looking at it closely, and if I can't find anything obvious then I will most likely send the unit to Dr. VANOS.

There are a few more things I need to check first, such as pre-cat O2 sensors and a final vacuum leak check, even though I've looked very thoroughly already.

I tested my coils yesterday as well, they are all good. I can disconnect each one at a time and the engine noticeably bogs with the loss of a cylinder.
I doubt your 02 sensors are the problem. Typically you won't get that severe of symptoms from a bad 02 sensor. Sounds like your VANOS rebuild didn't go so well. Did you knick up the journals or pistons somehow? Are you sure you put the exhaust spring back in properly? Did you seat the seals properly? Did you use a new VANOS gasket? Did you get the pistons properly tightened back down with the reverse thread bolts?

My local BMW salvage rebuilds VANOS with the Beisan kits and sells them for $125. If you want to call them it is Vines Auto at 205-426-2697 and ask for Martin. Tell him Shad told you to call. I have seen his work and they do a great job on them.
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  #17  
Old 02-19-2010, 07:55 PM
msouren msouren is offline
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Update

I figured I should give you guys an update on whats going on. The car still presents the same issues, even after disassembling my VANOS and inspecting for problems, there were none at all.

I still don't really know what the problem is. I called Pelican Parts and RMAed the Camshaft Position Sensor for the exhaust side, thinking that it was bad/faulty based on the P1520 code. Unfortunately, that did not solve the issue. The car seemed to run OK for about 30 minutes or so. Once I was at a stop light for over a minute, the idle will dip from 700 RPMs to 600 RPMs. When that happens, the engine starts to shake violently with misfires and the SES light came on at that instant.

I will most likely be replacing my ignition coils and fuel filter now, even though I highly doubt that my coils are bad. Although I really don't understand why the P1520 code is still present.
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  #18  
Old 02-20-2010, 02:45 PM
mujjuman mujjuman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msouren View Post
I figured I should give you guys an update on whats going on. The car still presents the same issues, even after disassembling my VANOS and inspecting for problems, there were none at all.

I still don't really know what the problem is. I called Pelican Parts and RMAed the Camshaft Position Sensor for the exhaust side, thinking that it was bad/faulty based on the P1520 code. Unfortunately, that did not solve the issue. The car seemed to run OK for about 30 minutes or so. Once I was at a stop light for over a minute, the idle will dip from 700 RPMs to 600 RPMs. When that happens, the engine starts to shake violently with misfires and the SES light came on at that instant.

I will most likely be replacing my ignition coils and fuel filter now, even though I highly doubt that my coils are bad. Although I really don't understand why the P1520 code is still present.
i doubt those are it too... u said u replaced the DISA unit right?
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Old 03-07-2010, 07:52 PM
msouren msouren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mujjuman View Post
i doubt those are it too... u said u replaced the DISA unit right?
I didn't replace it, but I've checked & cleaned it numerous times and it is in pretty good condition. I doubt that is the problem.

Just changed the fuel filter, no change. The old one was definitely somewhat clogged, but I am still having the same issues as before.

Now I will be changing the ignition coils, even though I still doubt they are bad. Process of elimination...
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  #20  
Old 03-10-2010, 06:24 PM
msouren msouren is offline
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Changed all ignition coils with Bosch ones. Same issue...felt a little smoother at first, but as I let the car sit at idle it slowly became worse with time. Awesome.

What is left to change? I'm stumped. Gonna call an independent mechanic tomorrow and see if I can get some answers from him
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  #21  
Old 03-10-2010, 06:43 PM
marlin1881 marlin1881 is offline
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Get a can of spray starter fluid, and with the engine running AND missing, carefully spray around parts associated with the intake portion of the engine; i.e. DISA valve, intake boot, etc. My slight idle miss was the DISA valve, and it was detected by spraying starter fluid around the joint where it mates with the intake manifold. It was an instant jump up in RPMs, only to slowly die down to the rough idle again. It was repeatable. The DISA seal was leaking, and when I took the DISA out, the flap pivot was broken. Could have been bad... Got a new DISA valve, and everything is running great again.
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  #22  
Old 03-12-2010, 09:27 PM
msouren msouren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marlin1881 View Post
Get a can of spray starter fluid, and with the engine running AND missing, carefully spray around parts associated with the intake portion of the engine; i.e. DISA valve, intake boot, etc. My slight idle miss was the DISA valve, and it was detected by spraying starter fluid around the joint where it mates with the intake manifold. It was an instant jump up in RPMs, only to slowly die down to the rough idle again. It was repeatable. The DISA seal was leaking, and when I took the DISA out, the flap pivot was broken. Could have been bad... Got a new DISA valve, and everything is running great again.
I've checked the DISA a few times. But, today I took your advice and sprayed around the engine with starter fluid, it did absolutely nothing to indicate the problem unfortunately. I doubt the issue is a vacuum leak at this point.

I swapped the VANOS solenoids today too. I expected the P1520 code to stay the same, since I believe that somehow the VANOS is messed up. The code indeed stayed the same, along with the misfires.

I'm either gonna replace the VANOS or take to an independent tech.
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  #23  
Old 03-13-2010, 07:10 AM
GoingNuts GoingNuts is offline
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Junk all the non-BMW engine parts you have except the vanos seals and start from there. Air fuel mixing is a precision operation. None but the BMW parts will work in concert, especially those electrical and electronic elements.

Should not of fixed it when it ain't broke.

Last edited by GoingNuts; 03-13-2010 at 07:16 AM.
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  #24  
Old 03-13-2010, 09:27 AM
Rajaie Rajaie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msouren View Post
I've checked the DISA a few times. But, today I took your advice and sprayed around the engine with starter fluid, it did absolutely nothing to indicate the problem unfortunately. I doubt the issue is a vacuum leak at this point.

I swapped the VANOS solenoids today too. I expected the P1520 code to stay the same, since I believe that somehow the VANOS is messed up. The code indeed stayed the same, along with the misfires.

I'm either gonna replace the VANOS or take to an independent tech.
Swapping the solenoids won't do anything. You need to swap the solenoid pistons. They are plastic pistons under the solenoids. First test their movement. They are spring loaded. They should press in smoothly and spring back smoothly when released. These solenoid pistons are the only thing on the vanos other than the seals that can fail. Also, clean the cavities the pistons live in.

I have lost your contact info. Email me at the email on the Beisan website.

Last edited by Rajaie; 03-13-2010 at 09:29 AM.
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  #25  
Old 03-13-2010, 10:38 AM
msouren msouren is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingNuts View Post
Junk all the non-BMW engine parts you have except the vanos seals and start from there. Air fuel mixing is a precision operation. None but the BMW parts will work in concert, especially those electrical and electronic elements.

Should not of fixed it when it ain't broke.
I don't have any non-BMW parts, where did I mention that?
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