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E34 (1989 - 1995)

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  #1  
Old 08-11-2016, 05:16 PM
Vinnie D's Avatar
Vinnie D Vinnie D is offline
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Mein Auto: 1990 E34 535i Automatic
Front End Tremble?

Hello fellows,

I've been busier now with class and work, but the Bimmie is behaving well.

For the past 3 weeks I've been driving 53miles 4 times a
Week, where I am taking classes, and that might be my future for the next 5 years. A couple days ago when on the highway I felt some noticeable trembling on the front end. As my legs rested, I could feel the trembling through them in a way it did not use to be like before.

If that influences, I have had new all season tires for a couple of weeks now.

When I stop at the light and then take off (normal speed, not literally taking off as in racing), the car makes a little trembling noise, as if something was shaking in the trunk(I do have some tools in the trunk) but I feel the vibration through the arm rest, so I don't think that's from
Anything in the trunk.

Could that be my trans mounts and/or engine mounts?

Or...what can you fellows tell me?
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  #2  
Old 08-11-2016, 06:07 PM
BMW_507_4ME BMW_507_4ME is offline
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Tires

The fact that you put new tires on and started feeling a trembling at freeway speed may be related. The other trembling from sitting to starting you feel at the armrest is most likely different. It could be anything from mounts to drive shaft bearings / yokes and so on. Unfortunately, you will most likely need to get it up on a hoist to see what is causing the problem. It could even be a front end problem that is transmitting back through the car.
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  #3  
Old 08-11-2016, 06:20 PM
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Vinnie D Vinnie D is offline
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Am I able to see it myself by putting it up on 4 jack stands?

I read it could be the drive shaft u-joint, maybe the differential?!, and the mounts..
Also read something that could be related to the torque converter, where is that located?
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  #4  
Old 08-11-2016, 06:53 PM
BMW_507_4ME BMW_507_4ME is offline
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Vibration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie D View Post
Am I able to see it myself by putting it up on 4 jack stands?

I read it could be the drive shaft u-joint, maybe the differential?!, and the mounts..
Also read something that could be related to the torque converter, where is that located?
If you can get under it "safely", I would start by checking the drive shaft mounts and what some call the U-joints. You can do this in part by putting the car in park and blocking one rear wheels, while you have someone turn the other back and forth with some force, it wont move much, but it will load the driveshaft and the ring and pinion. As they do this start from the front of the driveshaft and look "closely" for "any" play. Work your way back looking closely at every joint, including the pinion bushing as well as both rear axel shafts, any notable play could be your problem. Also, inspect the rubber protective boots on the rear axels, if torn, expect a damaged CV joint inside.

As to the torque converter, possible, but unlikely if you are only feeling it from take off to starting moving. You can put the car in neutral and slowly increase rpm and see if you feel any vibration, that will spin the TC but not the input shaft, but could show if you have an internal problem inside the TC. As to where is the TC located, it is bolted to the flywheel that is bolted to the rear of the crankshaft and its output shaft is connected by a splined shaft to the input of the transmission. It is all covered by the bell housing and not a common fail part without a leaking of fluid being very clear. Good luck with your car, I hope this helps. If you do see slack in any of the parts I mentioned, please post what and where and I will try to help
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  #5  
Old 08-11-2016, 07:00 PM
Mykk Mykk is offline
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You say the vibrations started around the same time as new tires? Rotate the tires and feel if the vibration changes.

I have been seeing some really junk tires flooding the market lately that are seriously out of round from the factory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie D View Post
When I stop at the light and then take off (normal speed, not literally taking off as in racing), the car makes a little trembling noise, as if something was shaking in the trunk
This leads me to believe you could be chasing a misfire too

Last edited by Mykk; 08-11-2016 at 07:50 PM.
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  #6  
Old 08-11-2016, 07:29 PM
BMW_507_4ME BMW_507_4ME is offline
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+1

+1 on Mykk, so many tires are coming into the US from other country's and some are not only junk, but could be a danger at high speed. I am still thinking your no speed to very low speed arm rest vibration could be drive train related, but it is easy to check and see if it moves front to back with just a rotation. What kind of tires did you install?
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  #7  
Old 08-11-2016, 07:55 PM
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I will inspect it by the end of this weekend.
I have installed brand new rear axle half shafts less than 2 months ago.

The tires are Toyo Extansa. They weren't the cheapest ones but nothing fancy. They had good reviews and they will be better than the ones I had one. The old ones I had on, the front left blew out on the highway coming back from class. I put on my stock spare and made it home. Had some of my rotor dust cover damaged and abs sensor tip
destroyed but I managed to get it back in shape and all new tires and got replacement abs sensor from Andy.

Also traded the e46 rims I had on with old tires for style 29 rims

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  #8  
Old 08-11-2016, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mykk View Post
You say the vibrations started around the same time as new tires? Rotate the tires and feel if the vibration changes.

I have been seeing some really junk tires flooding the market lately that are seriously out of round from the factory.



This leads me to believe you could be chasing a misfire too

I will try rotating and observe the changes!

The trembling when taking off from a stop (I noticed it did not happen every single time today), does not feel like the car is "choking" if that's what you mean by saying it might be chasing a misfire. I thought of that. But if it is that, what would be possibly causing a misfire, Mykk?
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  #9  
Old 08-11-2016, 08:10 PM
BMW_507_4ME BMW_507_4ME is offline
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Ok, I didn't know about the damage from a blowout, that is suspect as your problems started after it. Not only could you have missed some damage to the rotor, spindle and other thing from the blowout, but you may have damaged some front end parts on that side of your car. As far as the Toyo's, good tires and most likely not any of your problem. I would do a very close review of all the parts that connect the wheel to the frame, as well as everything from the bearing, rotor, caliper and strut mount ball joint etc. JAT, but everything OK before blowout and now noise?
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  #10  
Old 08-11-2016, 08:30 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Your new wheels look like they are from an E39. If so, did you use hub centric rings?
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It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 225K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #11  
Old 08-11-2016, 08:32 PM
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I haven't noticed anything out of order when inspected visually, when I was repairing the damage(besides what got visually damaged). The ride before the blow out was smoother, but I remember moments before the incident, the car was pulling a bit to the left, although it had just being given an alignment (although with my snow tires on and different rims). Maybe this old tires were not balanced.

The rotor seemed fine, but I guess now I have to re-inspect and see if I find any signs
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  #12  
Old 08-11-2016, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR_LVR View Post
Your new wheels look like they are from an E39. If so, did you use hub centric rings?

The guy who i traded the e46 wheels said they were from an e39. I bought the hub centric rings, they fit on the rims, but they were the same size as the center bore of the wheel hub, so the tire shop guy removed the rings, but the rims still fit well and didn't appear to have any slack
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  #13  
Old 08-11-2016, 08:36 PM
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BMR_LVR BMR_LVR is offline
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Pretty sure you have to have the rings. That's probably the source of your tremble.
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Most problems are usually something simple !

Quote:
Originally Posted by noego View Post
It's Deja Poo - as in, I've heard this **** before.
Steve

Calypso Red 1992 525i with 225K miles

1991 735i - Sold
1992 525i - Sold
1995 325is - Sold
2000 528i - Sold

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  #14  
Old 08-11-2016, 09:05 PM
BMW_507_4ME BMW_507_4ME is offline
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Don't trust the guy installing the tires. I didn't notice the rim difference, BUT, BMW rims are a true hub centric design, meaning the lugs will bolt up the wheel to the rotor, but the only thing that centers it is the centering ring (unlike many US and other cars that use the studs to center the wheel) I still think your vibration problem comes from the blowout, but the guy that said you didn't need the H/C rings was the same guy that may have put your wheels on with an impact (I hope not, these need to be tightened down in a star pattern at 90ftlbs or you can warp the rotors, especially the fronts, I had a tire store ruin a brand new set hitting them with an impact, and they paid me for new ones)
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Old 08-12-2016, 06:57 AM
Mr._Graybeard Mr._Graybeard is offline
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I like the style 29 wheels, and since they aren't that popular you can usually get a good deal on them.

But they definitely require hubcentric rings on an E34.
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  #16  
Old 08-12-2016, 09:01 AM
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Vinnie D Vinnie D is offline
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I will try to install the rings today! I am sure I ordered the size specified on the e34.net website, and even when picking the rings on ECStuning, I check the compatibility and it matched my car. Maybe the tire shop guy messed it up or couldn’t install it himself. I watched him trying.
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  #17  
Old 08-12-2016, 09:12 AM
BMW_507_4ME BMW_507_4ME is offline
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Easy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie D View Post
I will try to install the rings today! I am sure I ordered the size specified on the e34.net website, and even when picking the rings on ECStuning, I check the compatibility and it matched my car. Maybe the tire shop guy messed it up or couldn’t install it himself. I watched him trying.
Should be easy to check. Just test fit in the wheel and then on the hub, should slid right on without any play on both and should fit level to the wheel with nothing sticking out.
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  #18  
Old 08-12-2016, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr._Graybeard View Post
I like the style 29 wheels, and since they aren't that popular you can usually get a good deal on them.

But they definitely require hubcentric rings on an E34.
This is what I bought
Hub Centric Rings - Set Of Four

Includes 74.1mm to 57.1mm hub centric rings for proper fitment

I was able to trade the e46 wheels for the style 29 ones. My buddy from work drives a e36 M3 so he was happy to get a 3 series set of wheels. I had paid $150 for those wheels and we traded it even with no money involved. I do like these style 29! They look classic!

I went home for a lunch break and tried installing one ring. It fits on the wheel, but when I try to put the wheel on the wheel hub, it doesn't fit. I would thin that the ring would have a larger diameter than the wheel hub center so it would slid on to it and fit nicely, but it's about the same size, so it doesn't even fit on the lip. That is why it got me thinking the wheels are the correct size.

Another thing I forgot to mention that today I thought about it, although I don’t know if that influences on what is going on.
I noticed that when I had the wheels installed, the front wheels had very little clearance between the tire and the strut housing. Enough that during the rotation, the tire would rub on the strut housing, and I figure that would damage the tire with time, in addition to feeling the vibration. So I put on 15mm spacers, to push the tires out away from the strut housing and now it has better clearance.
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Old 08-12-2016, 11:00 AM
BMW_507_4ME BMW_507_4ME is offline
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Spacers

If you use spacers, they too need to be hub centric, the MUST center the wheel from the hub and not the lugs.
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  #20  
Old 08-12-2016, 11:08 AM
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I'll have to take pictures and post it here. Will do it tonight
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  #21  
Old 08-12-2016, 11:29 AM
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TheEinstein TheEinstein is offline
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If you had a blow-out at fair speed, the imbalance can easily trash hub-centric rings. +1 on the rings. By chance have your OEM ones to slip on? Can just put one on really for a quick trip up the road and back to determine it. Obviously start with the hub that suffered the tire blow-out.
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  #22  
Old 08-12-2016, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEinstein View Post
If you had a blow-out at fair speed, the imbalance can easily trash hub-centric rings. +1 on the rings. By chance have your OEM ones to slip on? Can just put one on really for a quick trip up the road and back to determine it. Obviously start with the hub that suffered the tire blow-out.
When the incident happened, I had the e46 wheels on with spacers. No hub centric rings on. I just bought it after find out the style 29 wheels would need them, as I had been talking to this guy about a possible trade. The rings were not on during the incident.

I can put my OEM wheels back on (w snow tires) and test it to see if I feel any difference. I wouldn’t mind to drive it for a short distance just for the observation/testing purposes.
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  #23  
Old 08-12-2016, 12:39 PM
BMW_507_4ME BMW_507_4ME is offline
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Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinnie D View Post
When the incident happened, I had the e46 wheels on with spacers. No hub centric rings on. I just bought it after find out the style 29 wheels would need them, as I had been talking to this guy about a possible trade. The rings were not on during the incident.

I can put my OEM wheels back on (w snow tires) and test it to see if I feel any difference. I wouldn’t mind to drive it for a short distance just for the observation/testing purposes.
That is a great idea, you can isolate or eliminate the wheels being your problem with one simple test, good luck with your car
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  #24  
Old 08-12-2016, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_507_4ME View Post
That is a great idea, you can isolate or eliminate the wheels being your problem with one simple test, good luck with your car
Will give it a shot tonight.
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  #25  
Old 08-12-2016, 04:04 PM
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Vinnie D Vinnie D is offline
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Okay fellows,
I put my snow tires that have the oem rims on the front and it does feel better. Probably not smoooother, because the rear had the style 29 ones. Well, I guess I don't have the right type of Hub rings.

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For some reason, it feels like the appropriate rings should be like a band and just goes over the hub lip and fills that very small space with the rim and makes the rim snug on nicely.

If any suggestions for rings, please advise!
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