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European Delivery
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  #1  
Old 10-10-2003, 04:45 PM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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Wink Want to order 2004 545i through ED. Questions....

Hi everyone,
i am a new, soon to be , BMW owner. This will be my first bimmer. Anyways, i was wondering if anyone could give me an advice on how much i should be offering to the dealer for 2004 545i (ED). I have read couple of posts here about ED and i am not 100% sure on how to do this. Of course i would like to get the best possible deal.

Below are the wholesale prices for the new 545i and according to the posts i have read i should just sum all the numbers below, add about $1000-$1500 and that would be my total ED price. (i know that i still have to pay TT&L + Dest.Fee).

Wholesale price:
BMW 545i --- $45,955
Options
Sport Package --- $3,005
Premium Sound Package --- $1,640
On-board Navigation System --- $1,640
Head up display --- $910

So, for this configuration i should offer: $53,845 + ~$1,500 = ~$55,345


To me this just looks too good to be true considering the fact that the US price for 545i (base model) is $54,300. I understand that i would have to wait couple of months untill i get the car in the US but that is fine with me, especially if i can buy it for the above price (with the selected options).

Any info will be appreciated.

Thank you
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2003, 05:57 PM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumatt
I didn't check your numbers, but that's the right idea. Did you get all the numbers from eurobuyers.com? There's no MACO fee on ED.
I got the numbers from here (2nd page - wholesale prices): http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39409

So, it is true that i should offer the wholesale prices and i am thinking the right way about this?

Thank you
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  #3  
Old 10-10-2003, 06:34 PM
BillKach BillKach is offline
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FYI - the navigation system and heads up display are not yet available on the new 545.
I'm picking up my 545 in Munich 5 weeks from today - happy to answer any questions I can.
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On order for ED on 10/16/14: 2015 650 vert M Sport, Deep Sea Blue/Black/Aluminum, 20s, Exec., Adapt Drive, Active Steering, Park Assist
2011 M3 vert Space Grey/Black DCT, 19s, PP, TP, CWP, PDC (May 2010 ED trip cancelled due to volcanic ash)
2005 645 vert Atlantic Blue/Black, Ruthenium, SMG, SP, CWP, Sat. Prep. (ED 1/05, sold 6/10)
2004 545i TiAg/Black/Anthracite, Step, SP (ED 11/03, sold 4/05)
2001 330Cic Steel Blue/Black, retired
1998 Z3 2.8 Montreal Blue/Black, retired
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  #4  
Old 10-10-2003, 07:37 PM
eksath eksath is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKach
FYI - the navigation system and heads up display are not yet available on the new 545.
I'm picking up my 545 in Munich 5 weeks from today - happy to answer any questions I can.
...and post pics please!
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  #5  
Old 10-10-2003, 07:49 PM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKach
FYI - the navigation system and heads up display are not yet available on the new 545.
I'm picking up my 545 in Munich 5 weeks from today - happy to answer any questions I can.
you are right! i just checked it on www.bmwusa.com

so what are we supposed to do now? why can we select the navigation system and the head up display on the "Build My Own" link at www.bmwusa.com if we can not have it until Spring 2004? confusing...

anyways, i am going to call the dealers to see if i can get this deal.

Anyone know a dealership in S. California that would just do this deal, so i don't have to call around? I am ready to go...

Thank you all for replies...
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2003, 08:46 PM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumatt
How far are you from Cutter Motors? Submit an internet quote and mention you're a bimmerfest member. They often give discounts for festers. (festers? )
I just did it. I offered $1,200 over the wholesale price. Now let's see if this is going to work. They are about 140 miles away from where i live but if i can make this deal i don't mind driving there tomorrow.

Thanks for the info...
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  #7  
Old 10-11-2003, 08:22 AM
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beewang beewang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my1stbmw
I just did it. I offered $1,200 over the wholesale price. Now let's see if this is going to work. They are about 140 miles away from where i live but if i can make this deal i don't mind driving there tomorrow.

Thanks for the info...
Don't be surprised if no one calls you.

Look here is the deal, despite all the board "expert's" opinion that you could/should be able to get the 545 for $1k or so over ED invoice. I will tell you straight up that I know of NO California dealer that's willing budge for at least $2k+ over ED invoice. In fact, I would say about 90% of CA dealers wants not a dime less than FULL ED MSRP

"Why?? What?? " you say, "How is it that then I am able to get my 3XXi (fill in your favorite 3 series model here ) and get the car for $1.2k over ED invoice beewang?

..well the answer is simple, (but you may not buy it):
1) 3 series is at the end of it production run, as such, it commands lesser premium. (Yes, despite the fact that dealers are asking for full MSRP for U.S. Inventory cars especially cars like 330cic)

2) E60 is a hot new model car (yes you may not be a big fan of the begal design, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a new 'LATEST AND GREATEST" car in the BMW family). which lead us to the next point:

3) Dealers are NOT non-profit Organization. They need to make their money as much as they can (as you do )
$1k over invoice deal will not get you very far in life (appx. $200 in commision), The concept of volume sales just doesn't work very well for $30K + cars. It may for for Honda and Toyota, but not BMW and MBZ.

4) The 5 series is the middle of the road BMW. In genearl, it must sell for more profit margin for than the 3 series. I know your argument that the work load is the same for the dealer, but same thing can be said for Z8 and why it doesn't really cost $10k in profit margin when the effort in sales is not significantly different then that of a 3 series.

I have a few connections that I can set you up w/, feel free and send me an email and we'll chat further. bomawin@yahoo.com

cherioos!!

beewang
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  #8  
Old 10-11-2003, 04:00 PM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beewang
Don't be surprised if no one calls you.

Look here is the deal, despite all the board "expert's" opinion that you could/should be able to get the 545 for $1k or so over ED invoice. I will tell you straight up that I know of NO California dealer that's willing budge for at least $2k+ over ED invoice. In fact, I would say about 90% of CA dealers wants not a dime less than FULL ED MSRP
Well, looks like i will have to fight for it.

Anyone know any dealer in CA that would do this easy sale (i have financing ready to go, just need to get to the dealer and sign the papers). If $1200 over invoice is unrealistic i am open for any offer that seems reasonable.

Thank you
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  #9  
Old 10-11-2003, 08:45 PM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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I just got back from visiting 2 dealers. Here is the scoop:

1st one didn't even want to negotiate the price!!! He wanted the full ED Price (guess sales are going well in this dealership... Needless to say, i just got up and left after 5 minutes talking to the guy.

2nd one was much better. First offer was $3K over invoice but i am sure i can get it down to $2k. I can tell just from talking to the Fleet Mgr. Very nice guy.

Anyways i found out that Navigation will be offered in the 5 series that are beeing built in March 2004 and after. I think i might oder the car from this dealer but i will wait until March 04 to pick it up. I really want the navigation...

i am going to call around or go visit couple of more dealers to see what they got to offer

THanks everybody
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  #10  
Old 10-11-2003, 10:07 PM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumatt
Why visit? Calling or emailing is much easier.

However, it's not losing a good relationship with a local dealer to save just a few bucks. Also, some dealers don't give loaners when you bring in your car for service unless you bought your car there.
You know what? You are right... I think i will just go with the 2nd dealership. Everything felt good over there and i felt like they cared about me as a customer unlike some others.

one question:
do i have to have my financing through BMW if i am doing european delivery? just wondering...

I got approved with BMW for a lease of 545i ( dealer said he can change that to purchase easily), and with E-Loan (www.eloan.com) for a purchase. I don't know the BMW interest rate but i think the E-Loan interest rate (4.95%) is better...

Last edited by my1stbmw; 10-11-2003 at 10:12 PM.
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  #11  
Old 10-11-2003, 11:29 PM
BillKach BillKach is offline
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You'll probably end up having to go with the BMW Financial deal - I've just been through the same process...
I got several very attractive loans approved through lendingtree.com - the best being at 4% through e-trade bank.
but none of the lenders would fund a loan 30 days in advance of delivery much less for a vehicle in a foreign country where they can't attach a lein.
You'll probably find the same with e-loan - they may approve your credit but if you read the fine print you'll find that you'll be required to present documents to finalize the loan that will not be available 'til the vehicle is state-side.
I ended up taking the 4.99% rate from BMW and will most likely re-finance at 4.25% with my credit union when i get the car re-delivered and registered in CA.
Overall - I'm not that upset considering the much greater savings by going ED.

p.s. I just don't think leasing makes a lot of sense for ED - you end up paying to lease the car when you can't drive it - and, unless you sell the car yourself and the end of the lease, you'll end up giving 2/3 of the ED discount back to the leasing co.
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On order for ED on 10/16/14: 2015 650 vert M Sport, Deep Sea Blue/Black/Aluminum, 20s, Exec., Adapt Drive, Active Steering, Park Assist
2011 M3 vert Space Grey/Black DCT, 19s, PP, TP, CWP, PDC (May 2010 ED trip cancelled due to volcanic ash)
2005 645 vert Atlantic Blue/Black, Ruthenium, SMG, SP, CWP, Sat. Prep. (ED 1/05, sold 6/10)
2004 545i TiAg/Black/Anthracite, Step, SP (ED 11/03, sold 4/05)
2001 330Cic Steel Blue/Black, retired
1998 Z3 2.8 Montreal Blue/Black, retired

Last edited by BillKach; 10-11-2003 at 11:47 PM.
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  #12  
Old 10-12-2003, 05:48 AM
eksath eksath is offline
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[QUOTE=BillKach]You'll probably end up having to go with the BMW Financial deal - I've just been through the same process...
I got several very attractive loans approved through lendingtree.com - the best being at 4% through e-trade bank.
but none of the lenders would fund a loan 30 days in advance of delivery much less for a vehicle in a foreign country where they can't attach a lein.
You'll probably find the same with e-loan - they may approve your credit but if you read the fine print you'll find that you'll be required to present documents to finalize the loan that will not be available 'til the vehicle is state-side.
I ended up taking the 4.99% rate from BMW and will most likely re-finance at 4.25% with my credit union when i get the car re-delivered and registered in CA.
Overall - I'm not that upset considering the much greater savings by going ED.

p.s. I just don't think leasing makes a lot of sense for ED - you end up paying to lease the car when you can't drive it - and, unless you sell the car yourself and the end of the lease, you'll end up giving 2/3 of the ED discount back to the leasing co.[/QUOTE

..just a note... my credit union did finance me and i did NOT use BMW FS . AS mentioned before, i paid a month in advance and then had to wait 7 weeks 4 days for delivery so i made 3 months of car payments with no car....This is just a fact of ED that almost everybody does...You might get lucky and get the car back faster but then again.........
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  #13  
Old 10-12-2003, 11:14 AM
chrischeung chrischeung is offline
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For the best deal - my opinion

I think you are more likely to get the best deal if you:

1. Set up a situation where the dealer is spending LESS time with you - ie. their cost to get your sale is low.
2. Email or fax the sales person - preface this with a call.
3. Spell out all details in your fax, so nothing is left to chance. This way, the dealer garners respect for you as someone who will not be wasting their time, and knows exactly what they wanted.

When I received my $1050+ invoice deal I highlighted:

- Confirmed offer
- Had my own financing
- Was ready to sign the papers and pay the deposit today
- Understood that there was no MACO
- Wanted mats included
- Listed that all fees were included in my offer

So, the dealer doesn't have to waste time thinking how to get the last $ out of me - only to have me reject it all (listed in the offer sheet), doesn't have to waste time with me on test drive(s), doesn't have to consider if I have the money... I think you get the point. Take out the variables, and show them how they can make a quick $1000 just with paperwork. MAKE IT AS ATTRACTIVE TO THEM AS YOU CAN - THEN THEY WILL EXPECT LESS PROFIT.

I think this goes in line with what Bee is saying - if you lower the cost of sale to them, then this is greater profit for them, and a lowe price for you.

Just my experience and opinion.
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  #14  
Old 10-13-2003, 10:42 AM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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FYI:
I just called E-Loan and asked them about the ED. They said that it is ok as long as the dealership is a franchized dealer. (BMW authorized)

nice
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  #15  
Old 10-13-2003, 01:31 PM
bbkat bbkat is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillKach
p.s. I just don't think leasing makes a lot of sense for ED - you end up paying to lease the car when you can't drive it - and, unless you sell the car yourself and the end of the lease, you'll end up giving 2/3 of the ED discount back to the leasing co.
I leased. The way I look at it I'm renting the car for a certain number of miles, not months. Not having it for two months just means I can drive it more miles per month.
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  #16  
Old 10-30-2003, 06:24 AM
bimmer12 bimmer12 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbkat
I leased. The way I look at it I'm renting the car for a certain number of miles, not months. Not having it for two months just means I can drive it more miles per month.
I am also looking into ED on a 545i sport. I have three quick questions that I would appreciate your insight into:

1) FOr those of you who have signed on ED for an E60, what is the earliest date to go over to pickup the car? 8 weeks?

2) Is it difficult to trade in a car with ED? Are dealers less likely to do the $1000-$1500 over ED wholesale?

3) Does anyone know of dealers willing to accept the $1000-$1500 over ED wholesale in the NY/NJ area?

thanks in advance
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  #17  
Old 10-30-2003, 07:14 AM
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Tanning machine Tanning machine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer12
I am also looking into ED on a 545i sport. I have three quick questions that I would appreciate your insight into:

1) FOr those of you who have signed on ED for an E60, what is the earliest date to go over to pickup the car? 8 weeks?

2) Is it difficult to trade in a car with ED? Are dealers less likely to do the $1000-$1500 over ED wholesale?

3) Does anyone know of dealers willing to accept the $1000-$1500 over ED wholesale in the NY/NJ area?

thanks in advance
2) Why should it? Other than the fact you'll have to trade in 30 days before you pick up. The dealer's not likely to let you keep your car at a set price, while giving you credit for it against the purchase of the new car. that's one of the problems with ED.

3) Try TedW at Carbone BMW. He seems to offer favorable ED pricing, if you consider Utica NY area.
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  #18  
Old 10-30-2003, 07:36 AM
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beewang beewang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer12
I am also looking into ED on a 545i sport. I have three quick questions that I would appreciate your insight into:

1) FOr those of you who have signed on ED for an E60, what is the earliest date to go over to pickup the car? 8 weeks?

2) Is it difficult to trade in a car with ED? Are dealers less likely to do the $1000-$1500 over ED wholesale?

3) Does anyone know of dealers willing to accept the $1000-$1500 over ED wholesale in the NY/NJ area?

thanks in advance
Frankly, I don't think this ED think is going to work for you.

1) The current lead time for E60 ED is at around mid Jan. More likely late January (Translation: 3 months)

2) Its not so much of being difficult, rather it is the timing of your trade. You realize that your new car loan/lease will start one month prior to the ED pick up date. So my question to you is are you willing to "trade your car in" at that time?? Are you willing to use the mass transit system for that time? and how about upon returning from Europe? You will not have a car for another 4 to 8 weeks. Can you hitch a ride to where you need to go for that time?

3) Don't be silly, E60 545 is the newest car (and a very tough car to get for a very long time) in BMW fleet. You will not find ANYONE selling that car via ED for less that ED MSRP. You should consider yourself lucky if you are able to buy that car for $2,500 over ED invoice. I know some on this board will disagree, but I can tell you that I am the Moderator for the ED board for a reason.

I think you need to iron out the complications in your situation, otherwise I serioudly doubt that ED is for you in this case.

good luck,

beewang
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  #19  
Old 10-30-2003, 01:17 PM
BillKach BillKach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beewang

3) Don't be silly, E60 545 is the newest car (and a very tough car to get for a very long time) in BMW fleet. You will not find ANYONE selling that car via ED for less that ED MSRP. You should consider yourself lucky if you are able to buy that car for $2,500 over ED invoice. I know some on this board will disagree, but I can tell you that I am the Moderator for the ED board for a reason.

good luck,

beewang
I paid full ED MSRP for my 545i.
Lead time = less than 2 months.
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On order for ED on 10/16/14: 2015 650 vert M Sport, Deep Sea Blue/Black/Aluminum, 20s, Exec., Adapt Drive, Active Steering, Park Assist
2011 M3 vert Space Grey/Black DCT, 19s, PP, TP, CWP, PDC (May 2010 ED trip cancelled due to volcanic ash)
2005 645 vert Atlantic Blue/Black, Ruthenium, SMG, SP, CWP, Sat. Prep. (ED 1/05, sold 6/10)
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2001 330Cic Steel Blue/Black, retired
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  #20  
Old 10-31-2003, 07:50 AM
bimmer12 bimmer12 is offline
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Thanks for the feedback.. I should be fine w/o a car as I have 2 others. I was hoping you could fix a price when you sign the deal for the trade in or at least be provided w/ a range... But the resale value of my car is fairly solid and I doubt the trade in would change significantly in 4 months.

I really think you should be able to get the $x amount over wholesale. I hear what you're saying and understand your point but ED cars are not taken out of dealer allocation and if you come to the dealer with a quick $1200 bucks, why not, regardless if the car is a hot seller. As you state, the 3 series is in its final production stages, the 7 series sales are down 23%, from a business perspective and evaluating the baseline, the dealership wants to maximize profit on the 5 series while its hot. Knowing that less than 5% of customers would come in requesting this ED deal, I'll take the quick $1200 and look to maximize revenue through the traditional customers.
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  #21  
Old 10-31-2003, 08:11 AM
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beewang beewang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmer12
I really think you should be able to get the $x amount over wholesale. I hear what you're saying and understand your point but ED cars are not taken out of dealer allocation and if you come to the dealer with a quick $1200 bucks, why not, regardless if the car is a hot seller. As you state, the 3 series is in its final production stages, the 7 series sales are down 23%, from a business perspective and evaluating the baseline, the dealership wants to maximize profit on the 5 series while its hot. Knowing that less than 5% of customers would come in requesting this ED deal, I'll take the quick $1200 and look to maximize revenue through the traditional customers.
Agree! BUT....
I am not a dealer, I am just merely telling you what is going on out in the BMW world. I agree w/ everything you said about the ED, but that still doesn't change the fact that BMW dealer is not handing out the new 545 for $1,000 ~ $1,200. In fact, most dealers out here will flat-out laugh at someone suggesting a ED 545 for that price range.

Having said that, I know of one guy who is doing a "group buy" on the new E60 545, I think they are just about to 'close" the group buy deal. You may want to email him for the detail. I understand this involves a west coast dealer that he was able to negotiate w/ and There are appx. 12 people in this "group buy" quite a few from your nick of the wood (NY)

francois@avilent.com

I dunno how a trade will work in this case, my suggestion as always is to sell your own car out right.

cheers,

beewang
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  #22  
Old 11-08-2003, 12:18 PM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beewang
Frankly, I don't think this ED think is going to work for you.

1) The current lead time for E60 ED is at around mid Jan. More likely late January (Translation: 3 months)

2) Its not so much of being difficult, rather it is the timing of your trade. You realize that your new car loan/lease will start one month prior to the ED pick up date. So my question to you is are you willing to "trade your car in" at that time?? Are you willing to use the mass transit system for that time? and how about upon returning from Europe? You will not have a car for another 4 to 8 weeks. Can you hitch a ride to where you need to go for that time?

3) Don't be silly, E60 545 is the newest car (and a very tough car to get for a very long time) in BMW fleet. You will not find ANYONE selling that car via ED for less that ED MSRP. You should consider yourself lucky if you are able to buy that car for $2,500 over ED invoice. I know some on this board will disagree, but I can tell you that I am the Moderator for the ED board for a reason.

I think you need to iron out the complications in your situation, otherwise I serioudly doubt that ED is for you in this case.

good luck,

beewang
how about $2,500 off ED MSRP?

Because that is how much i am paying for my 2004 545i.
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  #23  
Old 11-08-2003, 01:22 PM
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beewang beewang is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my1stbmw
how about $2,500 off ED MSRP?

Because that is how much i am paying for my 2004 545i.
I think the group buy got you beat buy another $1k ~ $2K (pending on the amount of toys ordered) plus the use tax issue (which is about another $4k). Not to rain on your parade, but just want to give you a lil' glimpse of the group buy's leverage power

beewang
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  #24  
Old 11-08-2003, 07:26 PM
my1stbmw my1stbmw is offline
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Location: Irvine, CA
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 53
Mein Auto: 545i
Quote:
Originally Posted by beewang
I think the group buy got you beat buy another $1k ~ $2K (pending on the amount of toys ordered) plus the use tax issue (which is about another $4k). Not to rain on your parade, but just want to give you a lil' glimpse of the group buy's leverage power

beewang
that's ok... i am pretty happy with my deal and the dealership i got it from. i wasn't even shopping around. this was the second dealership i went to and i got $2,500 off ED MSRP. i am sure i could have shaved another $500 - $1,000 if i have contacted other dealerships but this dealership is treating its cutomers with respect so i did not mind paying little more.

i am just trying to let people know that they CAN get their BMW below ED MSRP. if i did it, anyone can do it. just go ahead and talk to couple of dealerships, you can not loose anything. they need your business and you can always go to the next dealer.

the first dealer i went to wouldn't even talk about anything less than MSRP. so i just got up, said to my self "screw them" and left. second dealer 15 min later got me my current deal.
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  #25  
Old 11-08-2003, 08:23 PM
BillKach BillKach is offline
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Location: San Diego, CA
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 779
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Mein Auto: 2011 M3 vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by my1stbmw
that's ok... i am pretty happy with my deal and the dealership i got it from. i wasn't even shopping around. this was the second dealership i went to and i got $2,500 off ED MSRP. i am sure i could have shaved another $500 - $1,000 if i have contacted other dealerships but this dealership is treating its cutomers with respect so i did not mind paying little more.

i am just trying to let people know that they CAN get their BMW below ED MSRP. if i did it, anyone can do it. just go ahead and talk to couple of dealerships, you can not loose anything. they need your business and you can always go to the next dealer.

the first dealer i went to wouldn't even talk about anything less than MSRP. so i just got up, said to my self "screw them" and left. second dealer 15 min later got me my current deal.
Congrats on getting a great deal!
If only I had found this board BEFORE ordering my 545i I might have saved a couple grand! I paid full ED MSRP and didn't think twice...
__________________
On order for ED on 10/16/14: 2015 650 vert M Sport, Deep Sea Blue/Black/Aluminum, 20s, Exec., Adapt Drive, Active Steering, Park Assist
2011 M3 vert Space Grey/Black DCT, 19s, PP, TP, CWP, PDC (May 2010 ED trip cancelled due to volcanic ash)
2005 645 vert Atlantic Blue/Black, Ruthenium, SMG, SP, CWP, Sat. Prep. (ED 1/05, sold 6/10)
2004 545i TiAg/Black/Anthracite, Step, SP (ED 11/03, sold 4/05)
2001 330Cic Steel Blue/Black, retired
1998 Z3 2.8 Montreal Blue/Black, retired
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