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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #51  
Old 02-20-2010, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by ralwhite View Post
While most of the nickel and dime items are just irritating, the radio downgrade is BS in a car of this caliper. That cheap noise box doesn't belong in a 50k period!
Caliper?
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  #52  
Old 02-20-2010, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therajman View Post
I do want to thank everyone for their comments.

A few more points:

I am sure that you read that I had the 2007 335i. I just repeated the order when the lease ended.
Call me naive. I have learned my lesson.

I can live with the deletions. But not this pathetic, sad radio. And what sucks is that I am stuck with it.
I was in the exact same situation as you. Turn in of my 07 ordered a 10. I was lucky enough to be close to my dealer, and was very close to my sales person. In my trips to the dealer I noticed on the 09 window stickers that there was a cost for the radio upgrade, where as with our 07s it was included. So I dodged that bullet.

I agree that when you see the little things starting to come out of a car we love, it really hurts. But once I mass the throttle, the little issues melt away. Thank god they didn't take our turbo's away, now that would really hurt.

Oh yes one more thing not on peoples list. Engine compartment space now flat gray, no longer has the same paint quality as the exterior.

Darn one more thing, I started with a 2004 325, it had a wonderful quality paint job so glossy smooth and the head liner was of a quality felt type material. I have seen 7 years of items downgraded, but the road feel has stayed the best one can buy, and I am glad BMW keeps that and that we can still buy it.

In closing, BMW did give me 2,500 dollars to buy my car, so that helped soften the blow of the little things being taken away.


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  #53  
Old 02-20-2010, 12:21 PM
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OP, consider upgrading the sound--better, more efficient speakers can help, as can a subwoofer.

Does it make financial sense (especially on a leased car)? Not really, but you might be surprised how few $ can get you how much better sound....
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  #54  
Old 02-20-2010, 01:23 PM
ralwhite ralwhite is offline
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Caliper?
Got me.. Caliber
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  #55  
Old 02-20-2010, 01:45 PM
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although most of the stuff changed in 2010 MY would consider minor (apart from sound system), any car above 25k should have base sound system way better, why BMW cheap out on sound no one knows, this will piss off many people, power seat and good sound should be standard on even base model , at least power seat is standard now but i think at expense of sound system.
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  #56  
Old 02-20-2010, 02:35 PM
Michael Schott Michael Schott is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therajman View Post
Every business is scrambling to retain their current customers. Customer retention is dependent on making your existing customer happy. In this economy, it is a buyer's market and not a seller's. So, in my opinion, BMW should be going out of the way to make their cars a better value and not a cheaper value. Yes, things are tough. Yes, things are tight. There is a credit crunch. Very few people are purchasing new cars, especially in the luxury segment. From that perspective, BMW should make every effort to keep the equipment levels consistent and not arbitrarily cut. Such tactics can turn off repeat buyers. I will be very leery next time I go back to BMW. Once burned, twice shy. I will make sure that I examine each and every option properly. This experience has made me skeptical and I am sure to do my research IF I ever go back to BMW.

Is it too much to ask for proper disclosure?

And, yes, I conducted my research and I took the time to "build my car" on their website. There was NO indication that the standard stereo had been downgraded. None at all. In fact, even now, if you go to the website, there are NO details to be had on the standard audio system - this is how it is listed in the features and specs area:

Anti-theft AM/FM stereo CD/MP3 player audio system with Radio Data System (RDS)

There are no details to be had. They dont tell you the number of speakers. Nothing. Nada.

In the options section, here is what is offered for the Logic7:

Logic7 sound system with Surround Sound and Digital Sound Processing

The fact that they did not provide the specifics on the standard system is what is sneaky.

I don't anything against BMW for decontenting the 3-series; my problem stems from the fact that they have done this is a stealthy fashion. That is all.
This may not be good enough for you but BMW and all car companies add this kind of caveat to their literature and websites: "Actual prices and available options are subject to change and may vary from the Summary page listing." That is pasted from the Build Your Car page of the BMW USA website.
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  #57  
Old 02-20-2010, 03:08 PM
JulieDriving JulieDriving is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by groundeffect View Post
Don't forget we pay an extra 10 grand for the car in the first place..and the maintainance
warranty isn't as thorough..
With the stuff they added this year (2010), it came out to less than than $5K difference to a US car with the same options. The gap appeared to close significantly.

However, it appears they are taking out a couple of (now) standard items for the Canadian spec'd 2011... That's why I have a suspicion it has something to do with the strength of the US dollar, and how our dollar fluctuates in comparison to it.
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  #58  
Old 02-20-2010, 03:08 PM
GoZags GoZags is offline
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How is this stealthy? Just admit that you didn't know the name of the upgraded system is the Logic7 and therefore without choosing the L7 option means you have the base stereo. Knowing what logic7 means is pretty fundamental to knowing what sound system you have in the car. I have no sympathy for you.

Did you know that the 2007-present 2010 335i has a 300 hp N54 engine in it too and not the 230 hp 328 engine? If there was an option to have the "N54 engine equipped" for an extra $800 and you're pissed at BMW because you thought you got the N54 300hp engine standard and actually have the 230hp engine, why is this BMW's fault?
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  #59  
Old 02-20-2010, 03:51 PM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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I understand where BMW is coming from (strong euro and weak economy), but it does suck. Personally, the only thing on that list that bugs me is the lack of easily accessible power outlet--I think the other issues will fade w/ time. Like others have said you might be able to imporve the stereo w/ some new speakers for relaitvely little money. I doubt that they've done anything that would make the car less "solid"--you're just projecting that since you feel that they've cheaped out on so many other areas. It woudl cost them more to do that htan it would be worth since they'd have to re-test driveline components, etc. Much easier to just take small stuff that most people won't notice on a test drive away. Same thing w/ the seats--it'd cost them too much to swithc to a totally different design to save a few $$. It'd be nice if they had a "de-contenting pkg" that would add all the little things back- or maybe raise the price of the premium pkg by $200 and put all the small stuff back.
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  #60  
Old 02-20-2010, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galahad05 View Post
I believe the term everyone is searching for is, "nickel and dime-ing you to death."

BMW is being hit hard by the devalued U.S. dollar--well over 10% drop since I got my car!
BMW doesn't want to raise prices too much--certainly not over that psychological $50k (base) mark, so they ever-so-slowly, ever-so-stealthily de-feature the 3 to save $10 here, $50 there, $200 over thataway.

I'd rather see the higher price, myself.
Of course they should raise prices and not de-content. These changes are important to me and I'm keeping what I've got that don't have most of these changes. If I had to get a new car today I would either get an M3 or another brand, probably the latter.
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  #61  
Old 02-20-2010, 03:58 PM
bmw325 bmw325 is offline
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Of course they should raise prices and not de-content. These changes are important to me and I'm keeping what I've got that don't have most of these changes. If I had to get a new car today I would either get an M3 or another brand, probably the latter.
Curious-- what would you get? Personally the only other car I like is the Audi S4--but the leases suck on those. Mercedes, Infinitis, and Lexus I'm "meh" on even though they have some nicer content.
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  #62  
Old 02-20-2010, 05:32 PM
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Curious-- what would you get? Personally the only other car I like is the Audi S4--but the leases suck on those. Mercedes, Infinitis, and Lexus I'm "meh" on even though they have some nicer content.
Honestly I haven't thought about what I would get. I like my 135 vert so I would look for a sporty 4 seat convertible.
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  #63  
Old 02-20-2010, 07:27 PM
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Other possibilities:
New -- Audi S4, BMW 135i, BMW Z4 35isisdfkjsdfljd (whatever--the turbo six)
Used -- off-lease (2 yr old) Mercedes C63 AMG, Audi S5, Cayman S.
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  #64  
Old 02-20-2010, 08:35 PM
jeffjaz jeffjaz is offline
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Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
How is this stealthy? Just admit that you didn't know the name of the upgraded system is the Logic7 and therefore without choosing the L7 option means you have the base stereo. Knowing what logic7 means is pretty fundamental to knowing what sound system you have in the car. I have no sympathy for you.

Did you know that the 2007-present 2010 335i has a 300 hp N54 engine in it too and not the 230 hp 328 engine? If there was an option to have the "N54 engine equipped" for an extra $800 and you're pissed at BMW because you thought you got the N54 300hp engine standard and actually have the 230hp engine, why is this BMW's fault?


therajman is simply stating that the base system was quite sufficient on his '07 and had he known of the changes he would have opted for the upgrade. It's not unreasonable to have an expectation of being informed of that. And it's certainly understandable why one would be upset being "stuck" with an inferior sound system. That's one of those quality of life issues that can impact the owner's enjoyment of the vehicle.

To go to your analogy - though granted it's on a higher order of magnitude - wouldn't you expect a salesperson to inform you if the standard engine in the new model year has 70 fewer hp, especially if you're trading in on a lease of the same model?
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  #65  
Old 02-20-2010, 09:23 PM
swartzentruber swartzentruber is offline
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Originally Posted by therajman View Post
Every business is scrambling to retain their current customers. Customer retention is dependent on making your existing customer happy. In this economy, it is a buyer's market and not a seller's. So, in my opinion, BMW should be going out of the way to make their cars a better value and not a cheaper value. Yes, things are tough. Yes, things are tight. There is a credit crunch. Very few people are purchasing new cars, especially in the luxury segment. From that perspective, BMW should make every effort to keep the equipment levels consistent and not arbitrarily cut.
All yall chalking this up to an "oh so weaker dollar vs euro": May 2007 FX rate (USD/EUR): 1.3515 http://www.x-rates.com/d/USD/EUR/hist2007.html, latest FX rate I could find: 1.3595. FX rate changes as the cause? NFW. All those blaming it on that -- do your research. This is simply BMW cheapening out. Is this the beginning of the end for an independent BMW? Possibly. There have been a lot of articles commenting that if BMW can't find a way to "get bigger" a la VW, it might be doomed. I hope not, but I guess we'll see. I'll agree with the OP that it's bizarre to find a luxury company decontenting their vehicle to the extent that BNW is, although I also agree that I'd do more research before plopping down $50K. I guess it's just a lesson for all of us. I might be looking at a 2011 M3, and I KNOW I'll be doing my research.

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  #66  
Old 02-20-2010, 09:44 PM
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CALWATERBOY CALWATERBOY is offline
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this is very sad news especially because im upgrading my 2006 325i to a 2010 328xi. I do not get why bmw is doing this.
Dollar went low; Euro high.
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  #67  
Old 02-20-2010, 09:50 PM
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galahad05 galahad05 is offline
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Huh, you're right. I just used Yahoo finance to do a month by month, and sometimes day by day, conversion between $45k US and find the equivalent Euros. From September 2007 (when I got my car) and now.

There's been HUGE swings, but the two endpoints are nearly identical. Actually, they're a little better today than on the 19th of September, 2007 (both are my endpoints).


I wonder what the average trend has been? 'cause BMW can't plan changes to their cars on a day-by-day basis....
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  #68  
Old 02-20-2010, 10:44 PM
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330ximd 330ximd is offline
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Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY View Post
Dollar went low; Euro high.
Not any more . Hopefully next year, as the euro is projected to be worth less and less, and germany keeps going at 0% growth like last quarter, BMW can roll out better quality (work for those greenbacks, HA). I have been waiting for a 335d, and after sitting in my colleague's 335i last week, I was not too happy about the quality either. Much less than my e46. No 335d yet that means, anyways waiting for cold weather stats on the 335d as well.

Euros and dollars, what a weird mix. Eurozone was destined to fail, any currency not backed by one sovereign state, and one state only, is always at risk.
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  #69  
Old 02-20-2010, 11:56 PM
GoZags GoZags is offline
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Originally Posted by jeffjaz View Post
therajman is simply stating that the base system was quite sufficient on his '07 and had he known of the changes he would have opted for the upgrade. It's not unreasonable to have an expectation of being informed of that. And it's certainly understandable why one would be upset being "stuck" with an inferior sound system. That's one of those quality of life issues that can impact the owner's enjoyment of the vehicle.

To go to your analogy - though granted it's on a higher order of magnitude - wouldn't you expect a salesperson to inform you if the standard engine in the new model year has 70 fewer hp, especially if you're trading in on a lease of the same model?
Salespeople generally don't go out of their way to tell you what a car doesn't have unless they have something in another vehicle on the lot or can easily order that has the option(i.e. the Logic7 upgrade). They want to sell you the car that is on the lot instead of you ordering one as well.

Why would a salesperson say, oh and by the way, this 2010 335i has a downgraded stereo from the 2007 335i?
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  #70  
Old 02-21-2010, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by bmw325 View Post
Curious-- what would you get? Personally the only other car I like is the Audi S4--but the leases suck on those. Mercedes, Infinitis, and Lexus I'm "meh" on even though they have some nicer content.
Audi S4/S5 is the only comparable option but the residuals are pretty low.

Might even consider a VW. From what I understand, they are not "de-contenting" and they seem to be more up-front as far as the equipment is concerned.

Not in the same league definitely but...the Passat CC is a pretty nifty looking car.
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  #71  
Old 02-21-2010, 03:31 AM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
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Originally Posted by ralwhite View Post
Got me.. Caliber
Well, at least they haven't cheaped out on the caliber of the calipers.
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  #72  
Old 02-21-2010, 03:39 AM
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Zooks527 Zooks527 is offline
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Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
How is this stealthy? Just admit that you didn't know the name of the upgraded system is the Logic7 and therefore without choosing the L7 option means you have the base stereo. Knowing what logic7 means is pretty fundamental to knowing what sound system you have in the car. I have no sympathy for you.
I will have some sympathy for the OP on this one.

I have a 2009 with the base radio (plus HD). I tried both base and Logic 7 radios before I bought, and was fine with the base.

The 2010 now comes with a base radio with HD included. It wouldn't be at all unreasonable to assume that to be the same setup as I have. It's not, and by a lot. The biggest change is the downgrade in the count (and possibly quality) of the speakers. I had a loaner 2010 a few weeks ago, and I found the new base radio to be terrible, well below the equivalent base 2009, and all of it seemingly due to the downgraded speakers. Had I been in the same situation, I would likely have been tagged by this issue as well, regardless of the homework I did.

To the OP - I would look into speaker upgrades. It may not be Logic 7, but the base radio should work much better with an appropriate speaker set.


FWIW,
George
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  #73  
Old 02-21-2010, 03:54 AM
therajman therajman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zooks527 View Post
I will have some sympathy for the OP on this one.

I have a 2009 with the base radio (plus HD). I tried both base and Logic 7 radios before I bought, and was fine with the base.

The 2010 now comes with a base radio with HD included. It wouldn't be at all unreasonable to assume that to be the same setup as I have. It's not, and by a lot. The biggest change is the downgrade in the count (and possibly quality) of the speakers. I had a loaner 2010 a few weeks ago, and I found the new base radio to be terrible, well below the equivalent base 2009, and all of it seemingly due to the downgraded speakers. Had I been in the same situation, I would likely have been tagged by this issue as well, regardless of the homework I did.

To the OP - I would look into speaker upgrades. It may not be Logic 7, but the base radio should work much better with an appropriate speaker set.


FWIW,
George
Thank you. I suspect it is the amp in the base radio, rather the lack of an amp. So I believe it needs an amp and better speakers. Will adding speakers/amp void the warranty in any way? Any suggestions?
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  #74  
Old 02-21-2010, 03:55 AM
therajman therajman is offline
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Originally Posted by GoZags View Post
Salespeople generally don't go out of their way to tell you what a car doesn't have unless they have something in another vehicle on the lot or can easily order that has the option(i.e. the Logic7 upgrade). They want to sell you the car that is on the lot instead of you ordering one as well.

Why would a salesperson say, oh and by the way, this 2010 335i has a downgraded stereo from the 2007 335i?
Precisely. My SA did not mention a word about the downgraded sound system.
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  #75  
Old 02-21-2010, 07:06 AM
magbarn magbarn is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by therajman View Post
Thank you. I suspect it is the amp in the base radio, rather the lack of an amp. So I believe it needs an amp and better speakers. Will adding speakers/amp void the warranty in any way? Any suggestions?
It may not void your warranty outright, but it will give BMW excuses to deny it. BMW is not exactly known for electrical/charging system reliability and do check out their service bulletins on electrical issues. 9/10 times it will have a special section for the BMW service tech to sniff out and look for 3rd party electrical acessories FIRST and blame that part before progressing further with diagnostics. One of the reasons why I decided to just go with their top sound system instead of dumping $2-3K for a pro system install and deal with theft risk and electrical issues that BMW will blame my installer for. (even though it could the car's problem instead)
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