I think tirerack is great but their weights have always been off . . .

As a lot of you know, I've gotten a number of wheels and tires form tirerack and they are definitely excellent as far as service goes.

I placed my order with Gary for 225/45/17 Contiextreme's and was given a weight from another guy at tirerack a month or two ago of 20.5lbs per tire

I got them and they came in at 23- 24 lbs. per tire . . . I mounted them on my type 44 winter wheels and they total weight is about 48 lbs per wheel . . . which went up form the old Pilots (that had wear on them) which were around 46 lbs.


Kudos to Gary for taking the order and having them to me by the next day He is great and I think tirerack is great as well but why are the weights never correct

I have to wonder if they really take the time to weigh all the wheels and tires in the various sizes. There has to be quite a bit of variation when one moves from one size to another. I think for the wheels, they list the weights given to them by the manufacturers.

Originally Posted by AF330i

As a lot of you know, I've gotten a number of wheels and tires form tirerack and they are definitely excellent as far as service goes.

I placed my order with Gary for 225/45/17 Contiextreme's and was given a weight from another guy at tirerack a month or two ago of 20.5lbs per tire

I got them and they came in at 23- 24 lbs. per tire . . . I mounted them on my type 44 winter wheels and they total weight is about 48 lbs per wheel . . . which went up form the old Pilots (that had wear on them) which were around 46 lbs.


Kudos to Gary for taking the order and having them to me by the next day He is great and I think tirerack is great as well but why are the weights never correct

They obviously don't weigh them, and don't want to be bothered. In a recent Bridgestone RE 750 thread, Gary posted a completely bogus weight for the 235/45R17. I had to go to Bridgestone USA for the (correct?) weight, which was over two pounds heavier. Wheel/tire weight has a significant impact on the car's performance. Perhaps we could start a Bimmerfest database. I would be willing to have my 530 Sport Style 42/Bridgestone RE 750 package (which I believe to be significantly...5 lbs. or more... heavier than the stock sport fitment), as well as my Style 42/Dunlop 2000 spare, weighed at the next rotation to contribute.

It is definitely strange and I really have no idea of how they get their weights . . . I can tell you this, I have purchased 3 sets of wheels & 4 sets of tires in the last 7 months . . . the weight has been wrong on 5 out of 7 times and if you know how anal I am about the weights then you would definitely understand my frusteration . . .

I want to beleive tirerack does weigh the wheels & tires on the premises but I think Phil is right about them getting the weight from the manufacturer

The crazy thing is, we are not the only board that places so much emphasis on wheel and tire weight . . . all the forums that they sponser gets the same weight questions.

Originally Posted by AF330i

It is definitely strange and I really have no idea of how they get their weights . . . I can tell you this, I have purchased 3 sets of wheels & 4 sets of tires in the last 7 months . . . the weight has been wrong on 5 out of 7 times and if you know how anal I am about the weights then you would definitely understand my frusteration . . .

I want to beleive tirerack does weigh the wheels & tires on the premises but I think Phil is right about them getting the weight from the manufacturer

The crazy thing is, we are not the only board that places so much emphasis on wheel and tire weight . . . all the forums that they sponser gets the same weight questions.

Well...I would not say that I am anal on the subject, but having just purchased RE 750s from the Tirerack, and knowing, first hand, what a drag on acceleration they are, I think it is an important subject. Especially important for the performance-oriented folks that come to sites like Bimmerfest. Also, I am going to mod my 530 to 245/18s, so I would like accurate information. I don't begrudge Tirerack, if this is "a bridge too far," but I do feel some of its representatives are misrepresenting their actual knowledge, just to get "the sale." On that score, I would expect Bimmerfest.com management to monitor and take the appropriate action.

Originally Posted by 1RADBMR

Well...I would not say that I am anal on the subject, but having just purchased RE 750s from the Tirerack, and knowing, first hand, what a drag on acceleration they are, I think it is an important subject. Especially important for the performance-oriented folks that come to sites like Bimmerfest. Also, I am going to mod my 530 to 245/18s, so I would like accurate information. I don't begrudge Tirerack, if this is "a bridge too far," but I do feel some of its representatives are misrepresenting their actual knowledge, just to get "the sale." On that score, I would expect Bimmerfest.com management to monitor and take the appropriate action.

I don't think they are misrepresenting themselves to get 'the sale' when it comes to tires since they sell the most popular brands and we all need tires at one point or another.

For example, If the Bridgestone SO3 was 27 lbs and the Pilot weighed 24 lbs and weight is important to you, then you might go with the Pilot . . either way you'd probably get them from tirerack since they have very good prices and very good customer service.

So what I am trying to say they have nothing to win or lose when giving a weight of a tire . .. A wheel on the other hand might make or break a sale since the selection is much more limited. Know what I mean ?

Originally Posted by 1RADBMR

Well...I would not say that I am anal on the subject, but having just purchased RE 750s from the Tirerack, and knowing, first hand, what a drag on acceleration they are, I think it is an important subject. Especially important for the performance-oriented folks that come to sites like Bimmerfest. Also, I am going to mod my 530 to 245/18s, so I would like accurate information. I don't begrudge Tirerack, if this is "a bridge too far," but I do feel some of its representatives are misrepresenting their actual knowledge, just to get "the sale." On that score, I would expect Bimmerfest.com management to monitor and take the appropriate action.

I don't know why you harbor such feelings towards me/us...

That 25lbs spec is not a 'bogus weight' that I just made up off the top of my head. I sent a request to have the tire weighed and that was the result of my request. I was suspicious since it came out to be the same as the estimate, so I even asked them to double check since the weight came back as a round number. As I stated before I can't go back there myself and weigh the tire, I send requests for warehouse staff since salesman cannot operate the special forklifts use to get tires down from shelves that are over 2 stories tall.

In a similar thread about the 750 we all found Bridgestone had the wrong spec on diameter, is it not possible they had the wrong spec for weight as well?

Originally Posted by AF330i

I don't think they are misrepresenting themselves to get 'the sale' when it comes to tires since they sell the most popular brands and we all need tires at one point or another.

For example, If the Bridgestone SO3 was 27 lbs and the Pilot weighed 24 lbs and weight is important to you, then you might go with the Pilot . . either way you'd probably get them from tirerack since they have very good prices and very good customer service.

So what I am trying to say they have nothing to win or lose when giving a weight of a tire . .. A wheel on the other hand might make or break a sale since the selection is much more limited. Know what I mean ?

Ok...didn't catch the distinction between tire and wheel the first time around. However, Toyo Proxes T1-S seem to be the lightest top rated performance tire around, and Tirerack doesn't carry it. I'm beginning to believe there is a game of Liar's Dice going on in the weight category, which clearly (from my own personal experience) is important to the performance of the car. Particularly a 2001 530, which doesn't have an overabundance of excess torque to begin with.

Originally Posted by Gary@Tirerack

I don't know why you harbor such feelings towards me/us...

That 25lbs spec is not a 'bogus weight' that I just made up off the top of my head. I sent a request to have the tire weighed and that was the result of my request. I was suspecious since it came out to be the same as the estimate, so I even asked them to double check since the weight came back as a round number. As I stated before I can't go back there myself and weigh the tire, I send requests for warehouse staff since salesman cannot operate the special forklifts use to get tires down from shelves that are over 2 stories tall.

In a similar thread about the 750 we all found Bridgestone had the wrong spec on diameter, is it not possible they had the wrong spec for weight as well?

I have nothing against Tirerack, but I simply don't believe the 25 lbs spec. I talked to a local Firestone dealer the same day I called Bridgestone USA, and based on the published weight of the S03 (they were also surprised that the RE 750 weight was not published in any of their in-store documentation) and their own "hands-on" experience with the two tires, they estimated the weight of a 235/45R17 RE 750 at "about 30 lbs." That tracks with the info published in the recent RE 750 thread, that showed the 215/40R17 RE 750 as 3 lbs. heavier than the same size S03. So who am I (or anyone) to believe...

One other thing I just realized on the tirerack website, I was playing around with the different wheels and see they have the Breyton Imagine 18 x 8.5 weighed in at 26.0 lbs.

This is WAY off . . .this wheel is 31 lbs . . . plus for some reason they show the SSR competition in the dark grey 18 x 8.5 weighing in the mid 20 lb range . ..aren't these wheels sopposed to be much lighter . . . something is very wrong with their wheel weights

AF330i, or anyone for that matter. We just recently started posting some wheel weights on the site, so there are bound to be some errors/ typos. If you find more like this, please email me directly and I'll send requests to get them corrected. Normally they can be corrected in the next web info update which usually occurs on a weekly basis.

I think its best to have ALL weights pulled from the site until the prob is corrected. This way no one is confused and should be best for all until this issue is fixed. We still have the info avail by call-in or email.

aoplogy guys, I get a little whacked out when I stay up all night, backed my comments out of the thread

peace

Originally Posted by TeamZ4

aoplogy guys, I get a little whacked out when I stay up all night, backed my comments out of the thread

peace

I deleted my post so it's like it never happened

Hack, I agree with the overall premise that Gary is definitely a great guy and shouldn't be put down for any of his services here

I have purchased a lot of wheels and tires from tirerack and find both Gary & Jim to be great guys. The problem with your solution is that you cannot be to go a local tire store and weigh them yourself for a number of reasons or beleive me I would have done it.

The biggest problem is actually finding a tire store that would let get you each specified tire and then let you wiegh them . . . who knows if they even keep the type, and size that we want in stock.

But here is another problem that I find, the tire & wheel weights given out by some tirerack reps are not correct and it makes it very hard especially when your changing out a set of wheels to get an idea of how much weight the wheels they are going to be.

This is a factor that is too important to mess around with and can take an agile 3 series and make it not quite so agile.

I really don't think it's unreasonable to expect tirerack to provide accurate weight information especially since they have access to all the wheels, tires and weight machines and Gary doesn't seem opposed to it either..

Let me reiterate one point though, Gary should not disrespected or berated (sp?) for any reason, he is a good guy and is doing what he can with his available sources to help us.

There are two types of weights we have. "actual" and "estimated".

The majority of wheels we have 'actual' weight. Whenever I see a wheel that has an estimated weight I immediate send an inquiry to have that updated whether a forum member brings it up or not.

About 75% of the tires that matter have exact weights(ie: we dont' weight 205/65R15 S rated all seasons...). From this point forward to avoid any confusion, I'll refer to any weights we dont' have an exact number on as 'estimated'. I have done this in the past in some cases, but I'll try to do so in every case so that no one is mistaken or mislead. I can often have someone in the warehouse weigh a product to get the actual weight. As I've mentioned before, this time of year is extremely difficult on our warehouse staff due to the doubling of business from winter tire sales, so it may take a few days to get answers on specifics.

I appreciate most of you understanding.

Originally Posted by The HACK

You guys are tools. You want accurate measurement you can trust? Go measure them yourselves, or go to a local tire store and as them to measuer it in front of you on a physical scale. Why give Gary crap about his service here when he's providing it FREE OF CHARGE? All you guys want is to get information without lifting a single finger (well, I guess you DO need to lift a finger to type).

I can at least applaud AF330i for measureing all the wheels/tire he receives and keeping a database for it, which I have also started to do myself. If there's one thing I know for certain about internet forums, is that you can not believe ANYTHING anyone posts with 100% certainty unless you can verify it yourself.

How hard is it to figure out that Gary does not measure these wheels/tires himself (who could?) and to use the information he provides as a helpful tool to gauge the RELATIVE weight of each wheel/tire? They're for references, not for fact.

Well perhaps I am mistaken, but I believe Tirerack pays a sponsorship fee to "rent" this space and sell their product. Gary is, in essence, a vendor. In any event, the information he posts should be accurate, or at least not knowingly false. Noone is forcing him to post to any particular thread. Judging by the fact that they have removed all wheel weights from the Tirerack site, based exclusively I believe on this thread, I'd say AF330i did the entire community a great service. Gary does this for a living...you don't, Hack...I don't...for him the standard is different.

Originally Posted by rumatt

I think 99% of us appreciate the help Gary gives here...

I agree!! Thanks Gary.

Originally Posted by rumatt

So because he pays money to support this board, we have more justification to give him a hard time?

If information is being given out incorrectly, it should be corrected; no question whatsoever. But I think the help gary gives here should earn him some respect and courtesy, not the other way around.

I do agree with you that since he's a pro/expert/sponsor, it's OK to point out mistakes even if they're small, but there should also be a higher standard of courtesy when doing so. I think is exactaly what AF's post first did.

I think 99% of us appreciate the help Gary gives here, and it would be a shame to see something like this get out of control and have him boogie on out of here to avoid the bickering / flames.

Am I giving Gary a hard time? I think I'm just asking that mistakes be corrected. I am also pretty sure Gary is not paying the sponsership fee personally (If I'm wrong about that, I'm sure he will correct me.) and I'm pretty sure Gary is not going anywhere, unless his employer pulls him for some reason. Perhaps you should expect more, rather than I should expect less.
Cheers,
Herb

Originally Posted by 1RADBMR

Am I giving Gary a hard time? I think I'm just asking that mistakes be corrected.

Sure sounded inflammatory to me:

• They obviously don't weigh them, and don't want to be bothered
• but I do feel some of its representatives are misrepresenting their actual knowledge, just to get "the sale."
• I'm beginning to believe there is a game of Liar's Dice going on in the weight category

I think it's great that they decided to remove all weight quotes until they were corrected. Maybe you felt there was some deliberate misrepresentation regarding tire weight, but to say you were "just asking that mistakes be corrected" doesn't seem to be the case.

I'm having a premonition that there will be more post deletions in this thread soon ...

Originally Posted by elbert

Sure sounded inflammatory to me:

• They obviously don't weigh them, and don't want to be bothered
• but I do feel some of its representatives are misrepresenting their actual knowledge, just to get "the sale."
• I'm beginning to believe there is a game of Liar's Dice going on in the weight category

I think it's great that they decided to remove all weight quotes until they were corrected. Maybe you felt there was some deliberate misrepresentation regarding tire weight, but to say you were "just asking that mistakes be corrected" doesn't seem to be the case.

Exactly. 1RADBMR, you openly called Gary a liar, and it's not cool and courteous at all. You're entitled to your opinions, but don't jump to conclusions too fast and accuse Gary or The Tire Rack of such major things.

Dan . . . it surprises me that a guy like you who is very performance oriented does not see the importance in wheel weight. I know you've experienced first hand what a heavy wheel can do to performance since you had those heavy replica 71's on your car . .. when you put your BBS wheels on, didn't you notice how much quicker and more agile your car got ?

I would think that experience alone would prove to you just how important wheel/tire weight is . . . I really don't understand how you don't see this issue as important . . .

Originally Posted by elbert

Sure sounded inflammatory to me:

• They obviously don't weigh them, and don't want to be bothered
• but I do feel some of its representatives are misrepresenting their actual knowledge, just to get "the sale."
• I'm beginning to believe there is a game of Liar's Dice going on in the weight category

I think it's great that they decided to remove all weight quotes until they were corrected. Maybe you felt there was some deliberate misrepresentation regarding tire weight, but to say you were "just asking that mistakes be corrected" doesn't seem to be the case.

OK...you got me...that was indeed a rhetorical question. And with your kind forebearance, I will forego any further comment, until I have one of my recently purchased RE 750s dismounted and weighed. Might take a week or so. Thanks for your opinions...truly.

Originally Posted by AF330i

I would think that experience alone would prove to you just how important wheel/tire weight is . . . I really don't understand how you don't see this issue as important . . .

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42508

that is based on rather extensive experience

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...57&postcount=4

I think you totally missed my earlier point (now deleted). The difference we're talking about is *maybe* 0.2 sec on the dragstrip. If it's only worth 0.2 sec improvement during 14 sec of continuous WOT from a standing start (max inertia occurs while starting from a dead stop) how much do you think it equates to in driving to work, passing a car on a 2 lane road, driving 8/10's on the onramp, etc. The truth is, in daily street use it's worth next to nothing. As for sprung vs unsprung weight, in a lightweight IndyCar five pounds on a corner is a big deal. On a 3200# street car the relative effect on handling, shock control, etc. is negligible. I work closely with the guys at Koni NA Motorsports. If you don't believe me, call them up and ask them yourself.

That doesn't even account for all the other dynamic factors involved with trying to effectively compare different brand and model tires. It's not so cut and dry to conclude that the lightest tire is the best choice. I'd probably feel bad about busting your bubble, except experience has also taught me that you aren't going to believe a word I'm telling you. All I can do is shake my head (hence my earlier LMAO comments). Your butt dyno is not anymore accurate than anyone elses. However, no flame intended and I won't argue the point, I'll let my experience alone speak for itself