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F30 / F31 / F32 / F33 (2012 - current)
The sixth generation 3 series, chassis code F30. 2013 model year 328i and 335i sedans now in production. Read the F30 frequently asked question thread for all your basic question and dive into all the details in the ultimate F30 information thread.

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  #1  
Old 03-24-2010, 07:16 AM
magbarn magbarn is online now
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YUCK! F30 Edmunds articls claims no more Straight 6 in regular 3's!

From Edmunds F30 Article

Quote:
2013 BMW 3 Series: Early Look

Published Mar 23, 2010

Poor So-So Pretty Good Good Excellent
PoorSo-SoPretty GoodGoodExcellent.33 Ratings
33 Ratings.Just the Facts:
•Two years ahead of launch, IL offers an early look at the 2013 BMW 3 Series.
•New 3 Series lineup comprises five models, including a new two-door hatch.
•Turbocharged four-cylinder engines will replace the current straight 6s.


MUNICH, Germany — Two years ahead of launch, Inside Line is providing an early look at the 2013 BMW 3 Series, along with important details on the ultra-popular car's entire lineup.

Preparing to launch in 2012, the new 3 Series is styled after the striking 2011 BMW 5 Series, which officially debuted last fall in Munich. Despite the fact that the next-generation 3 Series rides on a longer wheelbase than the current model, the new car is expected to be lighter than its predecessor, and will be offered in five models instead of the traditional four.

In addition to the sedan, wagon, coupe and convertible, BMW plans to add a 3 Series two-door hatchback Gran Turismo, which will join the lineup a year later. The GT3 will emulate the current 2010 5 Series GT, which debuted last fall.

Although the 3 Series convertible just received a retractable hardtop for its last major redesign in 2007, BMW is now considering reverting to a fabric soft top in place of the heavier steel roof.

2013 3 Series' models are expected to be powered by smaller turbocharged four-cylinder engines in place of the current six-cylinder power plants, which will first debut in the 2011 BMW 1 Series. The exception will be the future BMW M3, which will trade in its V8 for a twin-turbocharged six and electric hybrid drive.

All variations of the new 3 Series will have stop-start technology and Valvetronic variable valve timing.

Inside Line says: It's risky business redesigning a perennial favorite like the 3 Series, but with sharp new sheet metal, more fuel-efficient engines and an even broader choice of body styles, this baby is destined to find even more buyers, not fewer. — Kelly Toepke, News Editor
If this is to be believed, 'tis bad. Last thing I want in the next 3 is basically having to buy a M3 as I really now detest wheezy/hoary-sounding 4 bangers.
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  #2  
Old 03-24-2010, 10:21 AM
thebmw thebmw is offline
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I think the base of 328 equivalents will have the turbo 4's instead of the NA 6. The 335 equiv will probably have the N55 engine as it just came out. The next gen M3 will lose 2 cylinders, but will probably be a torque beast. I'm thinking mid 500's HP and at least upper 400's torque based on the description above. All this and still give city MPG around 20 (mid 20's or more if a hybrid) and highway around 30?

Last edited by thebmw; 03-24-2010 at 10:23 AM.
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  #3  
Old 03-24-2010, 06:10 PM
MikeTerp MikeTerp is offline
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Well, the new 4 bangers may get improved mileage, but I bet not that much. Turbos suck gas and unless people are willing to drive on the "backside" of the throttle they will not be as efficient as some folks believe. Highway cruising mileage should go up, but anyone driving it "like a BMW" in most situations and in the boost, will see their gas gauge drop. I do like the comment about the car being lighter, even if not much. This halts the trend for the past few model cycles of all BMW models to "pork up" with each new series.
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  #4  
Old 03-27-2010, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magbarn View Post
From Edmunds F30 Article



If this is to be believed, 'tis bad. Last thing I want in the next 3 is basically having to buy a M3 as I really now detest wheezy/hoary-sounding 4 bangers.
Edmunds is smoking crack on this report. The straight six is not leaving the 3er. Four bangers may be added, but the straight six will remain. BMW is not stupid.
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  #5  
Old 03-27-2010, 09:54 AM
Pleasanton335 Pleasanton335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebmw View Post
I think the base of 328 equivalents will have the turbo 4's instead of the NA 6. The 335 equiv will probably have the N55 engine as it just came out. The next gen M3 will lose 2 cylinders, but will probably be a torque beast. I'm thinking mid 500's HP and at least upper 400's torque based on the description above. All this and still give city MPG around 20 (mid 20's or more if a hybrid) and highway around 30?
Mid 500HP??? Not likely. More like 475-500 tops.
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  #6  
Old 03-27-2010, 09:59 AM
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this looks way too close to the current one
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2010, 10:14 AM
thebmw thebmw is offline
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Originally Posted by Pleasanton335 View Post
Mid 500HP??? Not likely. More like 475-500 tops.
Anyone's guess. I'm sure it is capable of mid 500's with some tweaking, if necessary.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:06 AM
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Fwd

I may have read in another forum that BMW will start producing small FWD vehicles starting with the Mini and 1-Series. Along with a four-banger it's not difficult to imagine a small FWD lineup for 2012, 2013...
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  #9  
Old 04-08-2010, 11:56 AM
CanuckSki CanuckSki is offline
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I'll take a 4-banger

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
Well, the new 4 bangers may get improved mileage, but I bet not that much. Turbos suck gas and unless people are willing to drive on the "backside" of the throttle they will not be as efficient as some folks believe. Highway cruising mileage should go up, but anyone driving it "like a BMW" in most situations and in the boost, will see their gas gauge drop. I do like the comment about the car being lighter, even if not much. This halts the trend for the past few model cycles of all BMW models to "pork up" with each new series.
Check out BMW UK http://www.bmw.co.uk. In the 3 series currently there are seven engine choices ranging from 170 to 305 hp. It's all there already, our choice in North America is simply limited because of cheap gas prices. More diesels and 4 bangers are inevitable. By the way BMW was built on the four cylinder, just check out their head office in Munchen.
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  #10  
Old 04-10-2010, 12:20 PM
MikeTerp MikeTerp is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanuckSki View Post
Check out BMW UK http://www.bmw.co.uk. In the 3 series currently there are seven engine choices ranging from 170 to 305 hp. It's all there already, our choice in North America is simply limited because of cheap gas prices. More diesels and 4 bangers are inevitable. By the way BMW was built on the four cylinder, just check out their head office in Munchen.
I have nothing against four cylinder engines, it is just that in the U.S. market, BMW clearly is trying to meet the upcoming increased MPG requirements. Fine, but at the same time they are trying to maintain more or less the same performance as they have had with the sixes, by using turbos. OK. But the problem will be that they will advertise higher MPG numbers than many people will ever see because they will still drive their cars in a spirited manner, staying on the boost. As I said, turbos suck gas and for many people, they will see little overall improvement in MPG compared to the previous sixes. Sure, drive it on the "backside" of the throttle and the fours will do better than the sixes. We are going to get fours no matter what - government regs will cause that, but I wish they would make more of an effort to lighten the cars and use other techniques like direct injection, etc to try to make up the performance deficit. Turbos are a false economy.
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Old 04-10-2010, 02:23 PM
thebmw thebmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
drive it on the "backside" of the throttle
I'm sorry...what does that mean?
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  #12  
Old 04-11-2010, 12:51 PM
MikeTerp MikeTerp is offline
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I'm sorry...what does that mean?
It means keeping your foot out of the gas. Putting the lightest possible pressure on the gas pedal, keeping the turbo from spooling up, driving it like a Prius, etc, etc. It does not mean getting the maximum possible performance from the engine.
Again, I have nothing against fours, but think that BMW had other potential options to get performance similar to their sixes without using turbos. No doubt the turbos will run fine and get good performance, but I doubt that they will get much better mileage because BMW drivers used to a 328 will stay on the boost to get similar performance.
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Old 04-11-2010, 01:08 PM
thebmw thebmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
It means keeping your foot out of the gas. Putting the lightest possible pressure on the gas pedal, keeping the turbo from spooling up, driving it like a Prius, etc, etc. It does not mean getting the maximum possible performance from the engine.
Again, I have nothing against fours, but think that BMW had other potential options to get performance similar to their sixes without using turbos. No doubt the turbos will run fine and get good performance, but I doubt that they will get much better mileage because BMW drivers used to a 328 will stay on the boost to get similar performance.
Thanks for the clarification.
It's never about mpg in your and my car. It's about EPA #'s. It doesn't matter what kind of car it is or engine, spirited driving will always result in poor mpg. Conversely, hypermileing will always result in higher mpg.
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  #14  
Old 04-12-2010, 08:33 AM
CanuckSki CanuckSki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeTerp View Post
Again, I have nothing against fours, but think that BMW had other potential options to get performance similar to their sixes without using turbos. No doubt the turbos will run fine and get good performance, but I doubt that they will get much better mileage because BMW drivers used to a 328 will stay on the boost to get similar performance.
O.K. But I think what we need is more choice instead of less. How about offering a 4 cyl non-turbo (318i - 140 hp or 320i - 170 hp), instead of the 323i (2.5l six) stripped down model offered here in Canada. As it stands now if I want the smallest motor I can't even get leather, xenon headlights or a sports package. The choice BMW Canada offers baffles me...

I agree the car should be lighter as this would go a long way in achieving a comfortable power to weight ratio. I think this is what BMW is trying to achieve with Efficient Dynamics. However it's not unreasonable to drive a small car like the 3-series with less than 200 hp. And you probably would when gas goes to $6 a gallon like it is in Europe.
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  #15  
Old 04-12-2010, 08:58 AM
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My first BMW was a 2000 323i, it came with a super smooth 170 hp 2.5 liter straight six.

It regularly averaged 26 mpg. My old car weighed in at only 3100 lbs and featured small 16 inch wheels with 225/55 rubber.

Today's 3 is much larger, heavier and has way bigger wheels and tires - all this stuff (including many more options) makes for a much different car. Many people today crave power and gizmos, a bad combination - I don;t blame BMW at all for trying to think ahead, it would seem the company is going to really develop the twin turbo four as its base engine (they already have a four in the 3 in europe.

What's most encouraging about the Edmunds article is the "lightening" of the next gen - I'm all for that, a base 3 series with a lighter chassis would be a fun drive indeed, especially with a lighter 4 over the nose
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  #16  
Old 04-20-2010, 04:39 PM
vivek_v_rane vivek_v_rane is offline
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As I said, turbos suck gas and for many people, they will see little overall improvement in MPG compared to the previous sixes..... ......Turbos are a false economy.
I don't know about that. The fact that I love about the twin turbos in my 335 is that I can get 30+ mpg on cruise control @ 65-70mph and yet get insane acceleration on an onramp, or even at 2000 rpm in the city.
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  #17  
Old 05-26-2010, 04:45 PM
josowski josowski is offline
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Anyone seen the mules yet (SoCal - LA County or Ventura County?)?
In the past I have seen them on the 101, Thousand Oaks/Westlake Village and Marina del Rey.
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Old 05-27-2010, 01:47 PM
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can't wait for a high torque M3....400 lb/feet wow !
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Old 05-27-2010, 03:51 PM
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can't wait for a high torque M3....400 lb/feet wow !
Looks like someone took an F10 and just F'ed around with an airbrush near the lights and bumper. E9x looks much better than the ugly thing they are showing on Edmunds.
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Old 06-17-2010, 08:21 AM
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:13 AM
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If MPG is the goal, just get 320d, already beats Prius even before the full dynamic efficiency stuff.
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Old 07-20-2010, 09:43 AM
ramblinman ramblinman is offline
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This is deja vu all over again. Just like the 70's car companies will be downsizing engines to meet USA CAFE stds, not give consumers what they want. The move to 4 cyl engines never did save a lot of gas in the past, but the manufacturers gave the anti car types at EPA what they wanted to see. I'll probably get one of the last of 6 cyl BMW's if they do go to 4 cyl engines. No matter what they do, the motors will be slower, buzzy and noisy at high RPM and vibration control won't be nearly as good. Sure you can turbo charge a 4 cyl and increase the displacement, but the 4 cyl is inherently more prone to vibration and noise. It will be a step back, but it will make Obama and Pelosi happy.
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Old 07-20-2010, 01:37 PM
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The consumer demand for the 4 cylinder 2.0T Audi A4 over its 6 cylinder version led to a 70:30 ratio in the US. It got so unprofitable that there is no longer a 6-cyl mid-range A4 between the base and the S4 anymore. They announced it quite some time ago. Check their website if you don't believe me.

There are many people that could care less about the engine, as long as it is 'acceptable' in their opinion. The best 4s out there are vastly more refined than the ones at the low end of the market--and even those have greatly increased in quality over anything just 10 years ago. 4-cyl tech continues to improve at a fair pace, with performance overlapping 6-cyl engines at similar displacement. Most have more than enough power to get around at a good pace, and plenty people are fine with it.

The only real advantage a small displacement 6 has is a bit of refinement in vibration and sound. Even then, only on an inline; a V configuration requires all sorts of balancing tricks that can sap power, reducing efficiency. The recent iterations of the Nissan VQ is a prime example of a V6 run amok. Other 6s that run smoothly with suitable power are hardly known for their efficiency. Only the inline 6 from BMW seem to maintain a performance envelope significantly beyond 4s, but it pays a price--bulk. It's not an easy configuration to squeeze a tall and long engine into a car. Although it does give BMWs that signature hood profile...

I also disagree on the fuel consumption advantage being insignificant. A turbo--especially a computer controlled one with electronic assist is a more easily implemented solution than cylinder deactivation/activation. It can be more finely tuned to load, or overboosted as everyone in the aftermarket knows. The system is lighter and smaller, and would greatly aid in making cars lighter and more efficient.

If your goal is not one of efficiency as a prime goal, then a medium sized 6 at or greater than 3.0L might make sense. But it does not seem the market is headed that way, especially at the entry level.

Personally, I'm looking for a future BMW that is light, small, powerful, and reasonably economical with all the usual amenities that are attached to the brand. If they use a 4 or a 6, I don't really care. I may even move down to a 1-series if the 3-series gets too big.
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Old 07-20-2010, 02:53 PM
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I find it hard to believe that they would get rid of the metal roof and go back to a canvas one. They are selling tons of the hard top convertibles. I think the only place we will see canvas is on the 1 series, and if they ever build a Z2.
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:16 PM
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1985mb 1985mb is offline
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Originally Posted by fuz View Post
The consumer demand for the 4 cylinder 2.0T Audi A4 over its 6 cylinder version led to a 70:30 ratio in the US. It got so unprofitable that there is no longer a 6-cyl mid-range A4 between the base and the S4 anymore. They announced it quite some time ago. Check their website if you don't believe me.
We're well aware the A4 3.2 died, at least in the US. But that had as much to do with Audi needing a 335 (and G37 and IS350) fighter which couldn't be the class-trailing V6 in the A4 3.2. So it had to be the new S4.

There literally isn't any space in the line-up for something in between an A4 2.0T and S4 (load up an A4 2.0T Prestige with options and see how close you are to an S4's price). It's the same reason an E9x 330i doesn't exist any more (in between 325/328 and 335), nor anything in between the IS250/IS350 or C300/C350.

But your broader point is probably valid if you mean that in the real world, outside these enthusiast forums, lots of people don't know/care jack about engine sizes, configuration, etc. and will probably buy whatever base 3er/C-class/A4 they can afford.
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