Welcome to Bimmerfest -- The #1 Online Community for BMW related information! Please enjoy the discussion forums below and share your experiences with the 200,000 current, new and past BMW owners. The forums are broken out by car model and into other special interest sections such as BMW European Delivery and a special forum to voice your questions to the many BMW dealers on the site to assist our members!

Please follow the links below to help get you started!

Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)

X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-13-2010, 10:42 PM
bmwfans bmwfans is offline
Registered User
Location: CLOVIS, CA.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 44
Mein Auto: 2010 X5 35D,2009 MINI S
Question 2010 X5 35D Diesel Exhaust Urea Reservo

I have a 2010 X5 35d with 1200 miles on it. The display came on warning that the count down on restarting had begun. 999 miles left before it will not restart. I reset to warning display using the i-drive to click O.K.
I took it to the dealer today and the Key had no warning on it, and the vehicle status display showed everything was O.K. They said to let them know if the warning came back on because they were sure the Exhaust Urea was full when the car was shipped new two weeks ago.
Any thoughts????????
Thanks
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
  #2  
Old 04-14-2010, 06:17 AM
fonger fonger is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Virginia
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 101
Mein Auto: 2004 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwfans View Post
I have a 2010 X5 35d with 1200 miles on it. The display came on warning that the count down on restarting had begun. 999 miles left before it will not restart. I reset to warning display using the i-drive to click O.K.
I took it to the dealer today and the Key had no warning on it, and the vehicle status display showed everything was O.K. They said to let them know if the warning came back on because they were sure the Exhaust Urea was full when the car was shipped new two weeks ago.
Any thoughts????????
Thanks
Did they double check to see if it still has DEF in it right now or how much is left?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-14-2010, 06:53 AM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 404
Mein Auto: 77 530i & 09 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonger View Post
Did they double check to see if it still has DEF in it right now or how much is left?
Are you This is a BMW dealer's service department we are talking about. No fault -> no fix

Funf Dreisig
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-14-2010, 06:57 AM
bmwfans bmwfans is offline
Registered User
Location: CLOVIS, CA.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 44
Mein Auto: 2010 X5 35D,2009 MINI S
The BMW service Dept. did say it, and no they did not check the fluid level. They said the only way to check it was to fill it. I said so what is the problem???? There is no dip stick.........

Last edited by bmwfans; 04-14-2010 at 07:01 AM. Reason: left something out
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-14-2010, 07:11 AM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 404
Mein Auto: 77 530i & 09 35d
Seriously, there a only a few things that can trigger the DEF warning at 1,200 miles on a DEF system that is working properly...
1 - The passive tank was frozen for quite a while (e.g. nearly the full 1,200 miles). Pretty unlikely given the time of year. But possible if you were traveling in the mountains for most of the 1,200 miles.
2 - The passive tank on the DEF system was not completely filled. IOW you have consumed the DEF in the smaller active tank and there was/is no DEF in the passive tank to refill it.

AFAIK ALL the other explanations require some DEF system defect/failure, including...
3 - A malfunctioning DEF level sensor in the active tank.
4 - A leak that drained the DEF.
5 - A plumbing defect that kept the active tank from being replenished by the passive tank.

My bet would be #2 or #3. If its #2 then you will get the warning again very soon. If its #3

Funf Dreisig
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-14-2010, 07:24 AM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 404
Mein Auto: 77 530i & 09 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmwfans View Post
The BMW service Dept. did say it, and no they did not check the fluid level. They said the only way to check it was to fill it. I said so what is the problem???? There is no dip stick.........
FWIW this sounds like a BMW dealer service dept. that is inexperienced with the 35d.

1 - Several people have reported that their dealer WAS able to check the DEF levels via the BMW diagnostic equipment.
2 - Even if they had to fill it to make sure it was not malfunctioning.... Why didn't they fill it just to be sure? Even at BMW's inflated prices, the DEF that should have been consumed in 1,200mi would probably cost less than $100*.

FWIW if at 1,200 mile my dealer had told me that the only way to check the level of the DEF in my tanks was to fill them. I'd have called his bluff and agreeded to pay for the first 1.5 gals of DEF (the amount in the small tank) IFF the dealer/BMW would pick up the tab on the rest of the DEF required and all labor charges

Funf Dreisig

* As I've posted several times before - a 35d owner can DIY refill the entire DEF system using Cummins brand DEF for UNDER $50 retail, including the funnel.

Last edited by Funf Dreisig; 04-14-2010 at 08:39 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-14-2010, 07:42 PM
bmwfans bmwfans is offline
Registered User
Location: CLOVIS, CA.
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 44
Mein Auto: 2010 X5 35D,2009 MINI S
Thanks for the input......I'll copy these replies and take them to my dealer......
Maybe they will do something.
I'll let you all know what happens.
Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-14-2010, 09:03 PM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,479
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
I had a DEF warning at around 2400 miles. Went away with the next restart... lasted another 7200 miles.

The did a flush/fill on the DEF with my oil service, but there was no DEF warning- so no idea how much fluid was left.


Food for thought....
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-15-2010, 05:41 AM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 404
Mein Auto: 77 530i & 09 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
I had a DEF warning at around 2400 miles. Went away with the next restart... lasted another 7200 miles.

The did a flush/fill on the DEF with my oil service, but there was no DEF warning- so no idea how much fluid was left.....
IIRC You've only had your 35d since sometime in Nov. Was your 9,600 mile oil (and DEF) service 'conditions based'? IOW was it covered under warranty? You also did a DIY oil service fairly early on. Is that correct?

Funf Dreisig
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-15-2010, 09:19 AM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,479
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf Dreisig View Post
IIRC You've only had your 35d since sometime in Nov. Was your 9,600 mile oil (and DEF) service 'conditions based'? IOW was it covered under warranty? You also did a DIY oil service fairly early on. Is that correct?

Funf Dreisig
Yes, Oil was condition based although I personally did an 'interstitial' change after break in. Frankly I was surprised to get an oil warning at 9500.

They did the DEF without prompting. FYI the work order listed "2.5 bottles" of DEF- apparently they are about 2.5 gallons, so it takes ~2.5x2.5=6.5 gallons

I did not reset my oil service when I did the change (duh)

I am awaiting UOAs on both oils, will post up when done

A
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 04-15-2010, 09:56 AM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 404
Mein Auto: 77 530i & 09 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by ard View Post
.....Frankly I was surprised to get an oil warning at 9500...
Have you been driving that baby like it was stolen?


Funf Dreisig
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 04-20-2010, 08:31 AM
cablue's Avatar
cablue cablue is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Sierra foothills, California
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 206
Mein Auto: '10 X5 diesel
My countdown showed up early, maybe 1,200 mi., but I was traveling in a snowstorm. It went away on its own. It's now back, at 10,800 mi. I also needed an extra quart of oil at 6,400 mi. I'll be bringing it in soon for the fill.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 04-20-2010, 10:03 AM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,479
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf Dreisig View Post
Have you been driving that baby like it was stolen?


Funf Dreisig
No, actually. In fact I rarely drive it.

Wife drives it and is VERY easy on cars. I don't think she's every pressed the accelerator hard enough to kick it down a gear.

Just a LOT of rural roads.

A
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 04-27-2010, 05:01 PM
tharris48 tharris48 is offline
Registered User
Location: Virginia
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10
Mein Auto: X35D
My 09 35D is in the shop right now for the DEF low level warning light came on. I have 11K miles on her and was surprised the DEF would be consumed so quickly. But from this forum it doesn't sound like it is so unusual. Have all your dealerships had you all pay for your DEF fills? I must be naive because I didn't think the fluid would require a fill so quickly and also that this refill would not be covered under the promised maintenance provided. Any and all input appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 04-27-2010, 05:08 PM
fonger fonger is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Virginia
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 101
Mein Auto: 2004 330Ci
Quote:
Originally Posted by tharris48 View Post
My 09 35D is in the shop right now for the DEF low level warning light came on. I have 11K miles on her and was surprised the DEF would be consumed so quickly. But from this forum it doesn't sound like it is so unusual. Have all your dealerships had you all pay for your DEF fills? I must be naive because I didn't think the fluid would require a fill so quickly and also that this refill would not be covered under the promised maintenance provided. Any and all input appreciated.
Is your dealership making you pay? If so how much and what's the dealership name? I'm in VA as well and is concerned about this as well. If it's expensive then you might want to fill it up yourself, from what I read the stuff isn't expensive(non-bmw branded).
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 04-27-2010, 05:49 PM
Penguin Penguin is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Illinois
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,915
Mein Auto: Z4 and X5 Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by tharris48 View Post
My 09 35D is in the shop right now for the DEF low level warning light came on. I have 11K miles on her and was surprised the DEF would be consumed so quickly. But from this forum it doesn't sound like it is so unusual. Have all your dealerships had you all pay for your DEF fills? I must be naive because I didn't think the fluid would require a fill so quickly and also that this refill would not be covered under the promised maintenance provided. Any and all input appreciated.

The DEF flush and fill at the time of indicated oil changes should unquestionably be covered under the BMW free maintenance. And at 11K you should be close to an oil change. If they wanted to charge me, I would just fill the easily-reached small secondary tank myself and wait for the oil change to get a free "full" refill.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-27-2010, 06:52 PM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,479
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tharris48 View Post
My 09 35D is in the shop right now for the DEF low level warning light came on. I have 11K miles on her and was surprised the DEF would be consumed so quickly. But from this forum it doesn't sound like it is so unusual. Have all your dealerships had you all pay for your DEF fills? I must be naive because I didn't think the fluid would require a fill so quickly and also that this refill would not be covered under the promised maintenance provided. Any and all input appreciated.
As mentioned BMW will absolutely cover a full flush and refill IF IT IS DONE WHEN THE CAR SAYS "Oilservice".

HOWEVER, BMW will cover these on a 'case by case' basis. Here's the deal: the legal language they've used in the manual and in the "Maintenance and Warranty" document is defective- and they know it. However there are not many people that will challenge them on this...if you can mount a cogent challenge they will cover it.

tharris- did you sign anything agreeing to pay a dime? If not, refuse to pay for it. Especially effective if they went ahead and did it and now seeking payment.

The issue is that they say in the legal agreement: 'DEF will only be covered it done when the car tells you it is necessary'. BMW has 'redefined' this to mean "when the oilservice warning comes on'. But the legal agreement has no such distinction- in fact the owners manual clearly describes the DEF warnings and service process- and when the 'fill DEF' message comes up, it does in fact meet the terms in the policy.

How did this happen? Some lazy BMW lawyer-flunky just copied the same text they use to restrict the maintenance to only when the CBS requires it. So they say 'oil changes outside the oilservice warning will not be covered'. This makes sense. We all know they only cover the oil change when the car says change oil...unfortunately (for them) they just replaced 'oil' with 'DEF' and used the same text to address the DEF fills... problem is they didn't realize the DEF has it's own independent warning! and the DEF warning is, in fact, a "condition based service" warning.

My 2 cents. It will take some research, a letter and a conversation with BMWNA back in jersey, but based on my experience I think it likely they will cover it.

A

Last edited by ard; 04-27-2010 at 06:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-27-2010, 06:53 PM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 404
Mein Auto: 77 530i & 09 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
The DEF flush and fill at the time of indicated oil changes should unquestionably be covered under the BMW free maintenance. And at 11K you should be close to an oil change. If they wanted to charge me, I would just fill the easily-reached small secondary tank myself and wait for the oil change to get a free "full" refill.
I agree.

At 11k a 35d must be due for a condition based oil change real soon now. Adding DEF to the small "active" tank would probably be cost effective even if you purchased the DEF from BMW in their fancy 'no spill' bottle.

Of course, the next step would be to find a competent BMW service department -- ASAP.

Funf Dreisig
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 04-28-2010, 07:10 AM
tharris48 tharris48 is offline
Registered User
Location: Virginia
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10
Mein Auto: X35D
Thanks so much for your input. I am supposed to pick up my vehicle today and even though my service rep thinks it is crazy that BMWNA has even suggested that I am responsible for the in between DEF fills, he says that the newest service bulletin states that the owner is responsible. I again, now with the input received here on the forum, I will try and get them to cover the costs. I appreciate all the info I have read online here and now know that this is something my husband can easily do at home with some Cummins DEF himself (luckily he is very mechanically inclined). On that note, the question came up about resetting this warning. Does it reset itself once the DEF is refilled or is it one of those things that you need a reset tool to do? Please advise...............
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 04-28-2010, 07:15 AM
tharris48 tharris48 is offline
Registered User
Location: Virginia
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 10
Mein Auto: X35D
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonger View Post
Is your dealership making you pay? If so how much and what's the dealership name? I'm in VA as well and is concerned about this as well. If it's expensive then you might want to fill it up yourself, from what I read the stuff isn't expensive(non-bmw branded).
I have been told it would cost $140 for the fill. I am going to question how much was used to actually fill the DEF and go from there. The dealership in question is CASEY BMW in Newport News. We bought our X5 from Checkered Flag in VA Beach but they are just too far for us to go to for service (about an hour and a half). CASEY BMW is closest (about 45 min away) for our service needs. I regret to say that we have had to bring the truck in for several maintenance concerns in the 10 months we have owned it but CASEY has always provided us with a decent loaner car and been very good about keeping us abreast of what is going on with our vehicle.
But now that I have learned about refilling the DEF ourselves, we are definately going to approach this maintenance ourselves in the future. It doesn't sound too complicated and my husband is very capable of handling this himself. Overall, we LOVE this vehicle, it has just required more trips to the dealership than we thought we would be having to do.........................

Last edited by tharris48; 04-28-2010 at 07:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 04-28-2010, 10:22 AM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: USA
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 404
Mein Auto: 77 530i & 09 35d
Quote:
Originally Posted by tharris48 View Post
... On that note, the question came up about resetting this warning. Does it reset itself once the DEF is refilled or is it one of those things that you need a reset tool to do? Please advise...............
I don't have first hand experience. But from what I've read, the warning resets itself soon after the sensor realizes that the smaller "active" tank has enough DEF. Several people have reported having the sensor come on and go off by itself (e.g. ARD).

Note: the manual explains how an owner can top up the small tank DIY. So this is an 'approved' DIY maintenance item when you use the special BMW DEF filling bottle. OTOH I don't see how BMW could ever know whether you used Cummins or BMW DEF since it is a generic product.

Funf Dreisig
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 04-28-2010, 10:31 AM
0428's Avatar
0428 0428 is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: East Coast
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,566
Mein Auto: X5 35i Sport Sapphire
Sounds like the diesel is a handful for the miniscule fuel savings, just saying.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 04-28-2010, 10:35 AM
Penguin Penguin is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: Illinois
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 1,915
Mein Auto: Z4 and X5 Diesel
Quote:
Originally Posted by 0428 View Post
Sounds like the diesel is a handful for the miniscule fuel savings, just saying.
Depends.


My X5 has 8,000 miles on it with no problems or issues whatsoever.

It has loads of power for passing, gets about 26-27 mpg, and with the eco credit and tax credit was a couple of grand cheaper than the lower performance gasoline six.

Great deal for me so far...

Last edited by Penguin; 04-28-2010 at 10:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 04-28-2010, 11:27 AM
twssas twssas is offline
Officially Welcomed to the 'Fest
Location: alabama
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 121
Mein Auto: 2011 X5 35D
Today 2200 mile DEF warning

Driving home today, got a 999 mile warning. Low DEF levels. 2200 miles of relatively easy driving. Got home shut vehicle down....restarted a couple of times, remembering that I had read here that others had the warning, shut down, restarted, and then it cleared, without any additional problems. My warning stayed on.

After I wrote a couple of threads on Bimmerfest, thought I would go ahead and run over to the dealer.....started the vehicle for the 3d time (after receiving warning), and low and behold, it had cleared. No more warning. Shut it down again, restarted. Still no warning. Went to the idrive functions, checked systems....reported all system OK. Did this twice.

So.......guess I will just monitor for now. I remember bmwfans posted they took their vehicle to the dealer after a similar incident, and the dealer could not even find where there had been a message with a warning.

Just wondering....any other similar experiences here? I really didn't want to start the process with the dealer about the addition of fluid......
__________________
2010 535i, Premium, Cold Weather, Step,Sport, Nav, PDC, Logic 7, Platinum Grey/Grey Dakota

2011 X5 35D, Premium, Cold Weather, Nav, Tech, Premium Sound, Sat, Rear Climate Package, Roof Rails, Space Saver Spare, Multi-contour Seats, Space Grey/Black

Totaled: 2010 X5 35D, Premium, Cold Weather, Nav, Tech Package, Premium Sound,Sat, Rear Climate Package, Roof Rails, Space Saver Spare, Space Grey/Black

Retired: 2007 530i Premium, Cold Weather, Step, Black Sapphire/black dakota

Last edited by twssas; 04-28-2010 at 05:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 04-28-2010, 08:01 PM
ard ard is offline
Resident Curmudgeon
Location: CA
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 9,479
Mein Auto: '12 X5 35d/E39M5/996TTX50
Quote:
Originally Posted by tharris48 View Post
, he says that the newest service bulletin states that the owner is responsible. .......
Like I posted above, it is a legal issue- BMW can put out all the service bulletins they want- it doesn't correct the defect in the language in the warranty. I am sure the dealer hasn't a clue to the crux of the issue either. They, like most owners will just say "Oh, it must be true, BMW has a document".

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0428 View Post
Sounds like the diesel is a handful for the miniscule fuel savings, just saying.
Again with the diesel bashing dude... you and Craig... ever since his lexus got pulled off the road, he's fallen silent. What's it gonna take with you? Is it that your city dwelling, sophisticated sensibilities somehow offended by the unwashed hordes of BMW diesel owners??



I got the diesel for performance and the sound, BTW.



twssas- I had a warning at 2000 miles or so- cleared with the next restart. Made it to 9600 miles when I had an oilservice done (based on the CBS indicator) and they did a flush and fill of DEF. 6.5 gallons
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Forum Navigation
Go Back   Bimmerfest - BMW Forums > BMW Model Discussions > X Series > X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
Today's Posts Search
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On



Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
© 2001-2011 performanceIX, Inc. All Rights Reserved .: guidelines .:. privacy .:. terms