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E63 / E64 6 Series (2003 - 2013)
The E63/E64 BMW 6 Series builds on BMW's sporty heritage with aggressive lines and an incredible motor to back the design up. Available in coupe and convertible trims with a standard 4.8 liter engine producing 360 horsepower and 360 lb-ft of torque, the 6-series is a popular choice that exceeds expectations.

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  #1  
Old 04-14-2010, 03:47 PM
Beemie Beemie is online now
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pre-purchase questions on a 645

Hello all - I'm new to the forum but not to BMWs (have had them since '97, when I graduated from driving exclusively VW Bugs...) Have since turned my husband on to them (he used to be a big truck guy) and now he's upgrading to a 6-series convertible. Done a fair amount of research on cars.com, autotrader, edmunds, and now the forums, where the real nitty gritty details are! Bimmerfest seems like one of the most active forums (at least for 6ers) - I've already learned a ton from the "what did you learn after you bought your 6" thread - very cool.

We've been shopping around, and found what seems to be a good deal on a 2005 645 convertible - less than $15k miles, under $40k, although a little stripped down on options (no seat heaters!!). Here are some questions I have before we pull the trigger - hope you guys can help!

- seller says it has "premium sound" - how can I tell? It has 6 speakers, but no 6-disc changer. If its the Logic 7 speaker where is the 7th speaker (or how many speakers are the)? I didn't see this in the downloadable owner's manual. Also, where would it be branded "Logic" (if anywhere)?

- The production date is October 2004 - so it is an early 2005. In your experience, will we still encounter electrical bugs, i.e. with the iDrive? Anything we should test for or have a mechanic check during our prepurchase inspection?

- We actually did take it to get inspected at a separate dealer; unfortunately they found a leaky transmission pan and a "noise" coming from the front, a "possible strut brace" or something. The seller (also a dealer, but independent) is fixing these problems and we'll have it re-inspected again by the non-selling dealer. However, would these issues on a 15k mile car worry you?
Edited to add that the seller-dealer is now "replacing the front arm bushings" - does that change anything? (can you tell I'm a researcher but not a mechanically-inclined person.... )
(possibly related, when we tried out another 2005 645, it had major creaking when turning tightly - not sure if this is strut related also, but might front-end noise/clunks/creaks be a common problem in 6s?)

Anything else we should know?

Thanks so much for your collective knowledge - looking forward to browsing around! This car is our first step out of the 3series and it seems to be a whole different animal!

Last edited by Beemie; 04-14-2010 at 04:13 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-14-2010, 04:49 PM
Beemie Beemie is online now
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I should add that regarding the sound system, I found this very useful thread here: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/pri...d.php?t=374584 but unsure if it also applied to 2005 645s... Thanks.
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  #3  
Old 04-14-2010, 05:54 PM
docpaulo docpaulo is offline
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too expensive... for that price you can get an 06 if you look hard enough... I'd go with something around 30K miles as in a year or so warranty will be gone and miles won't matter. 06's are 650i vs 645 and just a bit different in power.. (nothing against our beloved 645 owners)...

also these are driving cars, so if they're not driven much, some of the problems may not have showed up until the warranty is gone... (warranty is worth a lot as these can be expensive to fix)... also there are some convertible unlocked problems that are just more common in the 645's...

the 7th speaker is on the dash behind the navigation.. it's a center speaker...

if you can find one with HUD... get it... until you'e driven with HUD you won't know what you're missing... I really don't even know how to read my gauge cluster as I'm so dependent on HUD...

either way good luck... others will chime in
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  #4  
Old 04-15-2010, 05:37 AM
chasz17 chasz17 is offline
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You should get the build sheet and it will tell you what the vehicle has. The car that you're looking at doesn't have the premium sound system; if it did there would be a disc changer in the glove box. It also doesn't have the cold weather package. Also make sure that you have the sport package. The resale value on the six series is awful if it is a stripped example.

Do NOT buy one of these cars if there is anything wrong with it. You are looking at a lot of money to start fixing and chasing things. Also, do yourself a favor: get an expert pre purchase inspection, spend the money, it is well worth it.
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  #5  
Old 04-15-2010, 07:07 AM
Solution Six Solution Six is offline
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I'd highly recommend purchasing a warranty for it as well... and make sure the one you are looking has full electronics coverage and a low per visit deductible. As others have stated, repairs (and maintenance) on these cars can be very spendy.

Mileage is one thing to worry about, but age of the car is also a big factor.
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  #6  
Old 04-15-2010, 08:12 AM
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pablo645 pablo645 is offline
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It seems you have been doing your home work on the 6. Good. Now try and get a detailed vehicle maintenace history. Pull the VIN and call any dealership and they can give you details over the phone or if there is a dealer close by, go there and see the folks in the service department. They will also let you know if that particular 6 came with the premium system because sometimes the previous owner might have removed the 6 disc changer to put in a ipod interface. you never know. Depending on who you deal with, they can be very helpful. You are doing the right thing by having the inspection done. You mentioned dealer but was it a BMW dealer doing the inspection? Also, look for any reoccurring maintenace issues. On some of the earlier models, some folks have issues with the convertible top sensors. The price to me seems a bit high if this car is the basic version. Get sport package, bigger wheels and better seats as well. Unless you are in a very warm area, the heated package is very nice to have.
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  #7  
Old 04-15-2010, 08:27 AM
Beemie Beemie is online now
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Wow, thanks so much for your helpful responses! Good points re warranties and repairs (vs. just considering low miles). I wonder if a higher mileage car (30k miles) that had BMW's 6 year, 100k mile extended warranty would be wiser? We have seen a couple of those. It really seems owning a 6 is like owning a horse - the purchase price is by far the LEAST of the expenses you will incur.

The car we're looking at is at an indepdent dealer that sells a variety of luxury car makes. Presumably they do some dealer reconditioning, although the fact that the car had a leaky transmission pan and something wrong with the suspension makesme wonder how carefuly they check the cars before putting them on the lot.

The prepurchase we did was at an official BMW dealership down the road (Sterling BMW in Newport Beach) - they did their standard 31-point inspection and turned up those two issues. The independent dealer is fixing those problems using their preferred mechanic, so we are going to have Sterling BMW re-inspect today make sure the work was done.

You guys are right - no cold weather package; also no HUD, no wood trim (only the aluminum looking stuff). The premium sound question is still being debated. My husband said he DID find 11 speakers afterall (versus 8, I think, based on the info in the thread I linked to above). But there's no 6-disc changer (and no mp3 alternative there). It does have the sport package and chromed stock rims. In fact, it seems the main reason my husband likes this particular so much is the color combo of GRAY soft top (plus silver gray metallic paint), beige int., and the chromed rims. The starting price was $39,900 - dealer is willing to go down only to $38,500 - is that still high and should we push for lower? Of course, the dealer has just completed repairs like replacing the bushing arms (or something like that) and repairing the leaky pan - which I think they'd have done before placing the car on the sales floor...

I'm personally a little hesitant on this particular car based on all you've said and all of the above, but I also don't want to rain on my husband's parade since it's really going to be his car.

Thanks so much again for your thoughtful responses!

Last edited by Beemie; 04-15-2010 at 08:50 AM.
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  #8  
Old 04-15-2010, 08:56 AM
chasz17 chasz17 is offline
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If the car doesn't have the sport package it is WAY TOO expensive. Also a 39 point inspection won't scratch the surface of all the items that need to be checked.
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  #9  
Old 04-15-2010, 09:09 AM
Beemie Beemie is online now
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One of the few options it DOES have is the sport package (phew) - does that change thoughts on the $38,500 price?

chasz17 - this is good to know! An official BMW dealer is doing the prepurchase inspection we're for a re-inspection today - what else should we ask them to check aside from their standard 31-points?
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  #10  
Old 04-15-2010, 09:18 AM
m4hk33 m4hk33 is offline
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car is way overpriced, for a maintnance extensive car, regardless of miles, with no warrenty or maintnance plan, i would go low blue book/trade in value, knowing the maintnace and issues are going to be comming out of the owners pocket. remeber this is a down economy and its a depreciating asset

i payed $29.5k for my fully loaded 2006 650, with 60,000 miles on it, with CPO and maintnance plan, for an 04, i would go 22k-25k, there is no way i would pay 3 to 5 thousand over blue book excelent value

my advice go to BMW ask for a maintnace schedule for the potential car, as the service advisor if you could get an estimate for what each maintnance would cost and factor that into your decision,



look around and you will find somthing

Last edited by m4hk33; 04-15-2010 at 09:30 AM.
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  #11  
Old 04-15-2010, 09:52 AM
Beemie Beemie is online now
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Good suggestion re asking for a maintenance schedule from the dealer - will definitely do that, thanks.

Sounds like you got an amazing deal on your 650! I agree we could find a lower price, especially as this car is a bit stripped. (My personal fave so far was a stratus gray 2005 645 that was loaded -HUD, heated seats, wood trim, 6-disc and 30k miles - the private seller dropped the price to $36k on the spot so I'm sure he'd go lower.) Docpaulo made a good point that these are dirving cars and problems show up when you drive them (not when it's resting in the garage) - so the low miles could almost be a liability...

Problem is, the hubby is now set on silver/grey top color combo and low miles....and I'm sure you guys don't like your wives nagging you re car choices...ARGH! But I'm a lawyer and very risk-averse, and I patiently and compulsively research things before making any decision. He just wants to find a car, strike a bargain, and drive off the lot - he initially didn't even want a prepurchase inspection!
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:08 AM
m4hk33 m4hk33 is offline
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somthing to consider, are you looking local only what is your search region? when i was looking for mine, i opened it to a nationwide search for the car that i wanted at a the price that i wanted, i.e,low blue book/trade in value, with CPO, it took about 6 moths but i found the exact car i wanted on the other side of DC.

basically find the car you absolutly love, options, miles, warrenty, color, coverage, what ever, at a great deal. when you find that car, that is thousands less then local, you can pay carchex or some other car evaluation firm a couple hundred bucks to verify its condition, and put it on a flat bed and have it delivered for less then a thousand bucks.

average nationwide price on autotrade is 31,k

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/search...=1271347590933

the money save on finding the perfect car can buy a lot of maintnace down the road if you guys are going for an 04
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  #13  
Old 04-15-2010, 10:22 AM
Beemie Beemie is online now
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m4hk33 - really good point also. That's how I bought my 325 wagon - I had to have manual trans. and heated seats, and ended up finding The One through a broker/auction in San Diego while we were living in Houston. I'd do the same for my next upgrade (which will be a 5-series manual, heated seats, HUD wagon - even if it takes 6 mos to find).

For the 6 we have primarily been looking locally for test drives, although have not ruled out looking further afield. I don't think Mr. Beemie could be as patient as you were, and there's obviously a trade-off in dollars for instant gratification... That's why I was trying to see if there were red flags raised with this particular car that would allow him to move on for the moment - or at least dig for more bargaining chips!

Thanks again for your thoughts - it's helpful to hear from others who are enthusiastic but also very calculated and deliberate in their purchases.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:12 AM
chasz17 chasz17 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemie View Post
One of the few options it DOES have is the sport package (phew) - does that change thoughts on the $38,500 price?

chasz17 - this is good to know! An official BMW dealer is doing the prepurchase inspection we're for a re-inspection today - what else should we ask them to check aside from their standard 31-points?
Beemie, I'm glad that a BMW dealership is doing the PPI. Of course you're going to get a lot of opinions on price/value/condition. In the SoCal market while there a significantly more of these, they are in great demand because of SoCal (I lived there for five years).

I looked for a long time and finally found mine, the perfect car. I'll explain why: The car was purchased from a local independent dealer whom I know. He was able to supply me with the complete history of the car from the day it was ordered, the two previous owners names, telephone numbers and addresses (granted very unusual), the entire service history of the vehicle, all the paperwork including windown stickers, the reason the right front fender was replaced, and a decent number on my trade in. The purchase price, as is, was $31,900 with 34500 miles on the car and is in pristine condition and needs nothing as I just replaced the horrible RFT's. It is a 2005 645Cic with the sports package, cold weather package, and premium stereo system. I added an Easy Care warranty and am all set.

The advantage that I had in this is that I purchased a convertible in November in New Hampshire. I also work as a senior manager at a major car dealership and "have been around the block."

Please take your time to locate the perfect example of one of these. Make sure that you have a PPI done by a BMW dealership whom you trust. If you are paying a premium price, as your car is, it should be flawless, that is no known issues at all!!
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:56 AM
docpaulo docpaulo is offline
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you should test drive a local car (which you did) to know you like it, then go nationwide and buy there... I would walk away (no run) from this car and dealer... you're getting an awful deal (not just average - awful)

I got my CPO from a BMW dealer in the east coast (I'm in WA state) and paid about 47K with CPO shipped to me... you can see my sig for the package I got...

for an 05 nothing more than 38K for fully loaded... for what you're looking 32-34K sounds about right...

dont' discount looking at BMW's website as that's where I found mine and we talked the price down a bit from their number...

get CPO if you can... it's worth the peace of mind...

you're hubby's a man... tell him he needs 360hp and 360 torque.. (650i) so he can go find an 06 or 07 even... we guys like HP so I'm sure he'll agree...

don't discount flying in to an out of state dealer and shipping or driving the car back... for the savings you'll be a few grand ahead...
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Old 04-15-2010, 12:39 PM
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Bk650 Bk650 is offline
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I wudnt..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemie View Post
One of the few options it DOES have is the sport package (phew) - does that change thoughts on the $38,500 price?

chasz17 - this is good to know! An official BMW dealer is doing the prepurchase inspection we're for a re-inspection today - what else should we ask them to check aside from their standard 31-points?
38,500 for and 05 with few options i wouldnt. My suggestion to you like others have mentioned is to keep searching you can find an 06 well equipped for that same price maybe in the 40kmiles range..
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  #17  
Old 04-15-2010, 01:28 PM
Beemie Beemie is online now
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BK650 and Docpaulo - thanks for your thoughts. Consensus definitely seems to be that we should not pay $38.5k for this car, which I suspected but didn't have a basis for. Sometimes it's hard to figure out what cars hav actually *sold* for (versus what the average asking prices are...) so your personal experiences help there. I know for the same asking price there is at least one '06 650 , still under factory warranty (for a few months anyway), better equipped in our area ... not the right color, but it shows they're out there, as you all know. And yeah.. I suspect that since he's a man, he secretly would prefer more HP, even though he's being impatient - I mean, he was talking about removing the 645 badge from the car already!!
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  #18  
Old 04-15-2010, 01:30 PM
SHAARK SHAARK is offline
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Try cars.com i looked up there too...and if you are planning on spending $35K, i am sure you can get a 650i within 40K miles but depends on what color and if you are going for a Coupe or Vert may increase the miles a bit but definitely don't go over 50K miles.

And also don't try to spend everything on the car because you will need to buy the Extended maintenance and Warranty
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  #19  
Old 04-15-2010, 01:49 PM
docpaulo docpaulo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beemie View Post
And yeah.. I suspect that since he's a man, he secretly would prefer more HP, even though he's being impatient - I mean, he was talking about removing the 645 badge from the car already!!
he definitely wants a 650i... get him on this forum so we can help him make an informed decision... and he will be very welcome to the board as well as you can see it's fairly active...

I know about being impatient.... it took 14 days for them to deliver my car and I couldn't wait... but he'll be stuck with the car for a few years and getting the perfect one up front will make more long term sense...

must have's in my opinion...
1. cold weather package, the heated steering wheel is wonderful... since you're in SoCal, this may not be important for you... but it is to me
2. HUD - unless your near vision is bad (when you're in your 60's) then it's an awesome feature... once you have it, you can't go without it...
3. I like the dark birch color - but titanium silver is fine and others prefer the metal vs wood... it's a personal taste thing (light birch goes well with lighter leather color)
4. sports package is optional really as honestly you'll likely replace the tires and rims eventually and the M6 replicas look great and tire/wheel will run 2K+ and the shadowline trim vs chrome will make your car unique as well all have the dark trim but chrome's not bad...
5. 360hp/360ftlbs torque -- sorry to the 645 folks but a bit more power is just awesome - when you hit pedal to metal (plastic in reality) while in sport mode... snapping your head back to the headrest just reminds you why you're paying a lot for this car...
6. wind screen - runs about 450$ - tampamark will talk you into it if you're undecided...
7. comfort access although not a must is too convenient to pass up... start the car and leave the keys in your pocket... no more fumbling around... my keys are in a vest pocket of my coat and has been there for 3 mos without seeing daylight...
8. CPO or some BMW warranty keeps you sleeping better.. or a cash fund to offset repairs
9. rims are optional, but a man's gotta have new shoes sometime... so he's going to want some rims down the road... plan for it... the stock rims/tyres are not bad but could be better....
10. clean service history and preferrably brakes that got serviced/replaced just before warranty expired.

post pics when you eventually get on board and have him browse through the "what did you discover after buying your car" thread to see what other nifty features this car has...
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Black Matte Grill
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Logic 7 Sound
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  #20  
Old 04-15-2010, 04:49 PM
stelb03l stelb03l is offline
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I just bought my 650 convert three weeks ago.

2006 Dark Grey/ Black Top
41K Miles
Sports Package
Logic 7 System (does not have CD changer in glove box, but has I Pod adapter)
Metal Trim
Illuminated Door Sills (looks great at night when I open the doors)
Cold Package
3M protection on front and side of vehicle
Lojack system

Asking Price 45,000
Priced Paid $38,500.00 (however, have to pay additonal cost for extended warranty and BMW maintenance warranty)

I was also looking on ebay today, looks like your dealer is asking a little too much for this 645i, my advise would be to go on ebay print out some comparable prices and show it to the dealer. They will come down in price if they want your business. Good luck
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  #21  
Old 04-15-2010, 07:21 PM
sporty2k sporty2k is offline
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here are the latest 06 650 conv sales sold at auction

Date Location Sales Price Mileage condition clr*******> ********>
04/13/10 FAAO
$35,900 43,252 Avg CHAMP
04/13/10 ARENA
$35,250 33,460 Avg BLACK
04/08/10 RIVRSIDE
$40,250 21,446 Above BLACK
04/08/10 RIVRSIDE
$37,500 17,848 Avg GREY
04/08/10 RIVRSIDE
$33,500 46,246 Avg BLACK
04/08/10 RIVRSIDE
$30,500 63,739 Below GRAY
04/01/10 MANHEIM
$39,500 29,050 Above SILVER
04/01/10 MANHEIM
$38,900 33,409 Avg GRAY
04/01/10 MANHEIM
$37,750 25,808 Avg MAROON
04/01/10 MANHEIM
$34,500 45,636 Avg SILVER
04/01/10 MANHEIM
$33,500 29,198 Avg BLACK
04/01/10 MANHEIM
$31,600 50,972 Avg MINERAL
04/01/10 ATLANTA
$34,000 47,079 Avg BLACK
03/31/10 CHICAGO
$29,500 89,980 Below SIL
03/31/10 CEN FLA
$28,200 76,652 Below BLACK
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  #22  
Old 04-15-2010, 07:38 PM
WGMc WGMc is offline
Greg
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You have received alot of great advice. Just for a comparison, I purchased my 05 645 Vert 8 months ago. It is a CPO car so I have plenty of warranty left if there are any problems. It had 49K miles on it when purchased. Options are Sport Pkg and Logic 7 system, wood trim package. Purchase price was $32,500...I feel very good with the deal I got although I did have to travel about 400 miles to get the car. The car has been great and I've not had any issues. Keep looking, you will find what you want at a fair price.
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  #23  
Old 04-15-2010, 08:42 PM
docpaulo docpaulo is offline
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http://www.ebautobrokers.com/detail-...d-5403544.html

I'd consider this over the 645 you saw... the miles should not scare you as both are out of warranty...

just to give you and idea of what's available... but ultimately buy what makes you happy...
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Black Matte Grill
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Logic 7 Sound
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  #24  
Old 04-21-2010, 12:52 PM
docpaulo docpaulo is offline
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dunno if you found one but this may be what you're looking for...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-6...fCarsQ5fTrucks

other than brakes, I wouldn't worry too much about the miles.. and I'm sure that price is negotiable... and if you really want to you can spend more money on a BMW warranty...

shipping should be less than 1500$...
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07 650i Cabrio CPO, Titanium Silver
Black Matte Grill
Dark Birch Wood Interior and Shifter
HUD, Cold Weather and Sports Package
Logic 7 Sound
Aluminum Racing Pedals
K&N Air Filters
Rays Master Piece REM 20" Forged wheels w/ Conti Extreme DWS

Last edited by docpaulo; 04-21-2010 at 12:55 PM.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:11 PM
ngraz617 ngraz617 is offline
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Location: Long Island, New York
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 31
Mein Auto: 2011 750I X M sport
I purchased a 2005 645 coupe, 23k miles in Oct. 08. I had a trade in which came from another dealer that I made the deal with and brought with me so I know figures are 100%. Black/Black, sport package, premium sound, satellite radio built in on I drive in factory radio which I love, wood trim, 6 CD in Glove, Cold weather, heated steering wheel, run flats, extended BMW 6yr/100K warranty, full maintenance, Road hazard wheel insurance, paid off the $825 it cost 2 tires 1 rim later, clean car fax, Illuminated door sills, Standard blacked out chrome around windows as with all BMW sport packages, New rubber, Every option available I think except HUD which I wish it had but car was so flawless I had to do it. It is absolutely perfect and aside from the tires and rim that I hit something that fell off a truck in the road (his exhaust system) The car, knock wood has been excellent with not one problem. Anyway my point, Oct, 08 about $42,000.00 and change from a BMW dealer certified pre owned with everything out the door including any taxes DMV Extended warranties, wheel insurance, 1 year satellite, the works and again had 23k miles so back then with everything mentioned from a dealer I think not a bad deal. I'm listing this for you to use as a reference. I think with what I got I paid high but it was a justifiable price, not too high and I need piece of mind so had to use BMW dealer with all available protection.
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