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7 Series - E65 / E66 (2002 - 2008)
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  #1  
Old 04-19-2010, 06:41 AM
stlbmw stlbmw is offline
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DSC error, reduced power, ABS error

Well....getting an error code this morning of Reduced Power/Engine Malfunction. Also briefly, 2 days prior, got an ABS error. I believe a fairly lerge pothole started all this.
The family was out in the 7 that evening going to a hockey game when we hit a pothole with the right front tire/wheel, 2-3 miles later the DSC error popped up with an immediate Reduced Power/Engine Malfunction error. Limped it home and walked away from it for about 30min. Came back, started her up....error gone. Driving with no problem for over a week.
2-3 days ago, got this ABS code that popped up and then DSC. Drove for a few miles more and it all went away. Once these messages appear, they seem to go away after the car is shut off for 30min or more...drive for about a week and keep getting the random error from time to time pertaining to DSC error. Got an ABS error ..once. All these are always met with Reduced Power/Engine malfunction...
Have to get it on the code reading tool tonight, maybe that would reveal some more info

Any Ideas ?? Could it be a bad ABS sensor on the front right where we hit the pothole
or a bad DSC module ?

Any thoughts would be appreciated
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  #2  
Old 04-19-2010, 07:32 AM
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wilson009 wilson009 is offline
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The DCS calculates the vehicles movement based on data that's obtained by sensors. If a unstable condition is detected, the DSC takes control of your car... and throttles back the engine....

So it sounds like its all related. You will defineately need the codes to figure it out.

The pothole could have thrown something out of wack, seems plauseable.
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:04 AM
stlbmw stlbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wilson009 View Post
The DCS calculates the vehicles movement based on data that's obtained by sensors. If a unstable condition is detected, the DSC takes control of your car... and throttles back the engine....

So it sounds like its all related. You will defineately need the codes to figure it out.

The pothole could have thrown something out of wack, seems plauseable.



Thanks Wilson, I'll read the codes on the scan tool tonight and post up.
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Old 04-20-2010, 12:33 AM
TechGuy TechGuy is offline
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Look at the wheels when the steering wheel is dead straight and they should be exactly alike angle wise. You may also have a speed ensor faulty as the result of the pothole. But these cars are very sesitive to wheel angles and front/rear height comparisons. Therefore have a browse through it and see if you notice any irregularities. Remember, diagnostic tools can only do so much. A lot of it is left to the mech. in charge.
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Old 04-20-2010, 08:03 AM
stlbmw stlbmw is offline
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Thanks for the suggestions. Didn't have time last night to scan for codes on the 745. Will do tonight and post up. According to Cindy, the car would start up all day long and
at each start up the code would clear and then within 1-2min come back again. DSC Error ...Reduced Power. So many things tied into the DCS that its nerve
wrecking at best to fix this car. I sure wish this car would't be so fussy, I like the car when it works, but hate the frequency this thing needs attention.
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Old 04-20-2010, 10:43 PM
stlbmw stlbmw is offline
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Got the codes tonight. The same as just about 1 month ago. DK Poti-sensor and the throttle valve potentiometer 1.
Cleared the codes with My key in the ignition...not the Mrs. key...Codes cleared as well as the message on the screen of
"vehicle stability fault...Engine malfunction-RED" "drive Moderately"....Reduced Power"
All this went away after clearing the codes. Went for a spirited drive...no codes were tripped on this trip.
Went home checked for codes...came back as NO CODES. Went for another longer drive and then back home..
....NO CODES.
Took the Mrs for a ride, showed her no codes...no reduced power..no problems.

HERES THE KICKER....I stopped the engine and went ahead and put in her keys..she drove 50feet
and "BING" All the same codes came back and the car did all the above mentioned suff.

Limped home and could not clear the codes no matter what I did...now the idle is surging again.
...hasn't done this for over a month...its like I'm back to square one.

What else can I do ?
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Old 04-21-2010, 06:33 AM
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hmmm

All those errors are related to your throttle valve.

I would take off the air housing and make sure the throttle flap is ok 1st. Then make sure the boots from the throttle to the airbox are all sealed up. Then make sure your airbox is seated and sealed correctly.

Make sure the electrical connections to the throttle are all seated as well. Maybe the bump threw something loose.

http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E6...ration_system/

I'm not sure what else could cause that. You need to get the codes read again though to confirm what errors it threw.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:38 AM
stlbmw stlbmw is offline
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Thanks Wilson...I can always count on you to add support. I have come along way learning about these cars especially
with help from this forum. I'm determined to get all this settled.

Still kinda wonder if the Cold Air induction that I installed about one month ago is the root cause to this problem.

After going to a great local shop we cleared the codes after the Cold air was on and it ran great with no problems.

Maybe its a coincidence.
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:40 AM
Keif Keif is offline
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Regarding the ABS/DSC issue...

Can your code reader pull faults that have happened but are no longer active? Have you checked the electrical connector at the wheelwell for the wheel that hit the pothole, and the bolt holding in the wheel speed sensor itself? +1 to TechGuy's reference to the wheel speed sensor...I've had 3 of these go bad so far on my E38 (its design is nearly identical to that on an E65/E66) in this area --> part #7 here.
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Last edited by Keif; 04-21-2010 at 10:43 AM.
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  #10  
Old 04-21-2010, 01:48 PM
stlbmw stlbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keif View Post
Regarding the ABS/DSC issue...

Can your code reader pull faults that have happened but are no longer active? Have you checked the electrical connector at the wheelwell for the wheel that hit the pothole, and the bolt holding in the wheel speed sensor itself? +1 to TechGuy's reference to the wheel speed sensor...I've had 3 of these go bad so far on my E38 (its design is nearly identical to that on an E65/E66) in this area --> part #7 here.
Thanks Keif. My tool cannot pull codes that are not active...only current ones.
I've yet to pull the right front wheel off and inspect the assembly. I kinda figured
since my drive was uneventful after I cleared the current codes, I was in the clear.
In fact, I was until the wife's key went into the ignition and it started this allover again..
.....surging idle and all.
Can the key store codes/faults ? Why would I have no codes when I drove vs.
seeing them now. Makes no sense
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Old 04-21-2010, 02:34 PM
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keys do store faults but only those that pop up on the idrive
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Old 04-21-2010, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlbmw View Post
Why would I have no codes when I drove vs. seeing them now.
Likely just luck. Keep in mind the surging idle and ABS/DCS issues are likely independent of each other.
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Last edited by Keif; 04-21-2010 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 04-21-2010, 09:52 PM
stlbmw stlbmw is offline
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Heres what I found out at my local shop after the BMW Tech scanned the car.
During troubleshooting, I was hanging with the tech that has been chasing this problem with me. The BMW scanning software picked up a fault in the DSC Module...as the scanner stated it was an internal fault in the DSC module. The tech tells me this may be the root cause of all the codes/events that have occurred since hitting the large pothole. The scanning tool also said a lt sided steering angle sensor may be bad. The tech mentioned that a front end alignment may be needed as TechGuy mentioned above in terms of the steering angle fault...all from the jolt from the pothole knocking the front end alignment out of whack. He felt the brief ABS message would have come back after I cleared the codes if indeed the sensor at the wheel was bad, therefore he didn't think it was the culprit. The internal fault in the DSC was his biggest concern. Being how all my codes/errors have been traced back to the operation of what the DSC does and its related parts, I think that after a good front end alignment, we'll reassess. It was gettinng late so I'll go back tomorrow to put it back on the scanner again. I think the surging idle was unrelated, although the DSC usually tripped first and then all hell breaks loose. So again, we erased the DME and all adaptations on the car before I left to see what fresh codes may appear by the time we scan again tomorrow. The car drove home great after all the adaptations we cleared and had no codes. I did pay particular attention to the steering wheel position as I drove home and felt the front end alignment may be out of whack because the wheel is a bit off center and that it pulled a bit at speed. So, the DSC module may have an internal fault as well as the front end needing a good front alignment to make the steering angle sensor
happy again. More to come.
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Old 04-24-2010, 04:42 AM
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I'm voting your cold air installatiion is triggering your idle pedidometer faults

I was amazed at how sensative the car is to airflow

I had similar issues when I didn't tighten my airbox correctly.
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Old 04-25-2010, 01:44 AM
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This reminds me of a mad X3 we once had in the shop. It came in with the 4*4 light on and seriously the transfercase was in good shape. All I could read out was a fault within the resistor and all I saw abnormal was a bunch of speakers, subwoofers, etc. I tore all out. Put the car back to it's original state, cleared the faults, re-taught the resistor in the transfercase and the car was fine. I took it around the corners at zillions of miles an hour and it still did not throw me anything. Remember, BMW says put everything back to it's original like new shape and go from there.

Also, your air mass flow sensor is a PTC resistor really and fluctuations as the result of that cold air induction system maybe throwing false values causing the potentiometer inside your EDK (throttle body) to go wakko. Why the DSC, well doesn't the DSC control the throttle valve at times? I think we're getting close.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:03 PM
stlbmw stlbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy View Post
This reminds me of a mad X3 we once had in the shop. It came in with the 4*4 light on and seriously the transfercase was in good shape. All I could read out was a fault within the resistor and all I saw abnormal was a bunch of speakers, subwoofers, etc. I tore all out. Put the car back to it's original state, cleared the faults, re-taught the resistor in the transfercase and the car was fine. I took it around the corners at zillions of miles an hour and it still did not throw me anything. Remember, BMW says put everything back to it's original like new shape and go from there.

Also, your air mass flow sensor is a PTC resistor really and fluctuations as the result of that cold air induction system maybe throwing false values causing the potentiometer inside your EDK (throttle body) to go wakko. Why the DSC, well doesn't the DSC control the throttle valve at times? I think we're getting close.

So, are you saying the DSC module is causing the problem or the cold air ?

It seems as though when you wipe out the DME and all adaptations and start fresh, the car
runs great for 3-2 days and then out of the blue you get the Engine Malfunction/Reduced Power message follwed by a DSC error. No matter how may times I clear my codes(not the DME, I cannot do this with my tool) it will not run good again unless I go to the BMW Tech have him wipe out the DME and adaptations again and the whole cycle starts over again.

Is the cold air causing all this or is it the DSC module that triggers all this ? And why
does it run OK and then go wacky ? Does it not like the increased airflow the cold air
provides ?

I think if we answer that question, It'll solve the problem.
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Old 04-26-2010, 08:54 PM
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I think there are too many variables in that that we don't know.... BMW isn't very forthcoming on the interworkings of their systems so we have to figure it all out by trial and error.


I agree though. You need to put your car back to its original condition and see if that fixes it.

If that does indeed fix and then its probably something with the programs getting variables that they simply don't understand and as a result go to emergency mode. But that is simply me theorizing.
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:41 PM
TechGuy TechGuy is offline
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Remember the air mass flow sensor is as I mentioned a PTC resitor which is positively charged as the temprature decreases. We also have NTC resistors used in diesel vehicle heater systems but never mind that. The DME has a defined resistence range and anything outside that will cause fluctuations in the EDK opening/closing operation meaning undulating voltage values reported from the potentiometer on the EDK and then the DSC going nuts.

But, remember these are all what we have concluded based on all that's been said so far. Mechanical issues do indeed need a little bit of trial and error no matter how experienced you are when it comes to Bimmers (they could be quite tough at times). Just put back your original stuff and let's see if that works.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:14 AM
730dMaster 730dMaster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stlbmw View Post
HERES THE KICKER....I stopped the engine and went ahead and put in her keys..she drove 50feet
and "BING" All the same codes came back and the car did all the above mentioned suff.
Seems like your car suffers from woman driveitis
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:49 AM
stlbmw stlbmw is offline
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Quote:
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Seems like your car suffers from woman driveitis
LOL , Yea, I think the Bimmer is a jealous girl
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Old 04-27-2010, 11:51 AM
stlbmw stlbmw is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechGuy View Post
Remember the air mass flow sensor is as I mentioned a PTC resitor which is positively charged as the temprature decreases. We also have NTC resistors used in diesel vehicle heater systems but never mind that. The DME has a defined resistence range and anything outside that will cause fluctuations in the EDK opening/closing operation meaning undulating voltage values reported from the potentiometer on the EDK and then the DSC going nuts.

But, remember these are all what we have concluded based on all that's been said so far. Mechanical issues do indeed need a little bit of trial and error no matter how experienced you are when it comes to Bimmers (they could be quite tough at times). Just put back your original stuff and let's see if that works.

Thanks Tech Guy, I'm with ya. I will put the original stuff back on and let you know what I experience. Thanks to all for the input.

I guess, like you mentioned, it does not like the increased airflow.

I post back later.
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Old 04-28-2010, 04:34 PM
stlbmw stlbmw is offline
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OK. Put the original air filter box and associated parts back on. So, the Cold Air is completely removed.
Ran like crap for the first few minutes and continues to do so. Still getting emissions fault codes and idle in park is
about 1300rpm. Checked for codes..got a "abort adapataions because of environment". Car is stalling in drive, idles
erratically and then goes into limp home mode. Can't get it to run correctly at this point. Any suggestions
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Old 05-02-2010, 12:32 AM
TechGuy TechGuy is offline
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I understand that you no longer are getting the DSC error. What is the reading on your HFM or air mass flow sensor. This is measured in kg/hour (air, that is) and should be reading 20 or so on average at idle.
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Old 05-02-2010, 12:50 AM
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oh man

i feel your pain, buddy

at the end it will be something cheap to replace or something left unplugged or ripped...

everything will work out so dont worry too much
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Old 05-02-2010, 09:05 AM
TechGuy TechGuy is offline
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So let me know about the HFM but as I was thinking about your problem, it reminded me of a mad E46 we once had in the shop with an N42 engine, stalling at would you believe it speeds higher than 155KM/h. Now imagine how we tested this car which as you can imagine would take some time to reach 160km/h being a 4 cylinder and to stall at that speed in Iran's traffic, wonderful. And it was the throttle body. My next test for you is to remove the air ducts and watch the behaviour of that huge flap of the throttle body of you V8. Let me know.
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