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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #101  
Old 02-03-2012, 06:45 AM
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morrisroad morrisroad is offline
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Check out the list earlier, they have been changed twice.
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  #102  
Old 02-14-2012, 03:55 AM
engel engel is offline
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Hi Everyone (I've just joined to this forum, 1st post)

MorrisRoad, I've got an E39 530i (2001). I've got near or exactly the same problem as you mentioned here before - and maybe got a solution for your car also.

Symptoms are:
1. rough idle when cold (engine shaking), stall sometimes when it was really cold but only once after start;
2. very subtle jerk (some may not even notice) when it's warm, and hit the gas gently at low RPM-s, below 2-3000

Now let's what I did with the car just to eliminate these problems. I don't want to write down all the details - it will be a very long post. Please just accept that these parts of my car are in a flawless condition (some parts I've replaced, like the VANOS sealing, some unused or new parts I've borrowed from Shops, mechanics, etc. and give it back after the test):

done compression test (only 2-5% drop of compression after 217.000 miles not bad mr. BMW )
new fuel filter with regulator
new air filter
perfect condition air boots
clean throttle body
new vacuum hoses
new Vanos seals (Beisan systems kit)
new Vanos oil line
perfect Vanos solenoids
new CCV valve / hoses / tubes / dipstick cleaned (dipstick o-ring changed)
new plugs and plugs boots
new valve gasket set
cleaned air distribution piece
NO SAP (European model with blanked connectors)
tested coils (temporary replaced all, etc.)
cleaned Injectors (I've 2 set of them, one is from a car with 45k miles - flow tested, cleaned)
new Injectors seals (2 for every Injector)
new seals around the engine (oil filter house, crank, oil pan, etc. - not because of these problem but the oil was leaking so I decided to eliminate these also)
NO fault codes
new camshaft position sensor (without reason )
MAF is in perfect condition (proven with a new one also)
DISA is flawless
(no coolant or oil loose by now, drive train is stiff with manual gearbox)

NOW ABOUT THE SOLUTION:
Finally I've changed the intake air temperature sensor (don't ask why). The jerk gone and the cold idle is also fine now. In fact the problem not caused by the sensor itself but the O-ring on it I think.
The sensor is in it's small "pit" in the intake manifold. When I was removing the sensor noticed that the borehole was full of SAND around the sensors body. So be careful before replace clean the hole and all the staff.
By the way meanwhile the repair I don't really care about that sand because it's in the engine bay - it's not a sealed place, dirt can be here. ...or... Can it be?? It's covered with that plastic cover, the sensors body very tight plugged in it's place. I mean the engines vacuum draws the dirt into this small place and making the sand deposit. I think that was the other proof of that the o-ring was faulty.

And some additional observations meanwhile the servicing process:
- Faulty CCV and hoses really made that famous knocking noise one cold morning - it was a little bit scary for the first time - after CCV repair the engine shake on cold starts did not stopped but a new problem (the small jerk at warm) came along.
- I think I will replace my DISA gasket also despite it is not in a very bad condition - but also not perfect I think - by the way I've ordered the DISA O-ring (from ebay) before the VANOS repair KIT and I've replaced already the Vanos seals last week but the DISA ring is still NOT here!!!
- As you can see I've reconditioned nearly the whole engine (I also replaced the whole serpentine (alternator, etc.) belt system of the car). After this whole procedure the car has more power and response became faster. Now it can go for another 200.000 mile

PS: Sorry for the long post - and maybe also sorry for my English
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  #103  
Old 02-14-2012, 08:13 AM
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doru doru is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engel View Post
Symptoms are:
1. rough idle when cold (engine shaking), stall sometimes when it was really cold but only once after start;
2. very subtle jerk (some may not even notice) when it's warm, and hit the gas gently at low RPM-s, below 2-3000
NOW ABOUT THE SOLUTION:
Finally I've changed the intake air temperature sensor (don't ask why). The jerk gone and the cold idle is also fine now. In fact the problem not caused by the sensor itself but the O-ring on it I think.
The sensor is in it's small "pit" in the intake manifold. When I was removing the sensor noticed that the borehole was full of SAND around the sensors body. So be careful before replace clean the hole and all the staff.
By the way meanwhile the repair I don't really care about that sand because it's in the engine bay - it's not a sealed place, dirt can be here. ...or... Can it be?? It's covered with that plastic cover, the sensors body very tight plugged in it's place. I mean the engines vacuum draws the dirt into this small place and making the sand deposit. I think that was the other proof of that the o-ring was faulty.
Excellent observation and fix. And I thought I knew everything about this car.....
Great post
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  #104  
Old 02-14-2012, 10:52 AM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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any REAL picture with this intake air temperature sensor location ?

just to give my recent feedback on this issue
i just picked up another 2003 530i 75k miles with a lot of engine work done on it and it has NO cold engine start issue
what i try to say ,- my impression was that ALL M54 after 60-80k miles have this issue but i was wrong
This issue CAN BE FIXED
my 0.02c
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Last edited by champaign777; 02-14-2012 at 10:56 AM.
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  #105  
Old 02-16-2012, 04:52 AM
engel engel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champaign777 View Post
any REAL picture with this intake air temperature sensor location ?

just to give my recent feedback on this issue
i just picked up another 2003 530i 75k miles with a lot of engine work done on it and it has NO cold engine start issue
what i try to say ,- my impression was that ALL M54 after 60-80k miles have this issue but i was wrong
This issue CAN BE FIXED
my 0.02c
I'll remove the plastic cover and take a picture for you - maybe today or tomorrow. But until that you can see on this drawing also. Marked with red on the attachment.

Can I ask about "lot of engine work done on it" - what was it (just a list or like that)? Thx
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  #106  
Old 02-16-2012, 09:03 AM
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doru doru is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by engel View Post
I'll remove the plastic cover and take a picture for you - maybe today or tomorrow. But until that you can see on this drawing also. Marked with red on the attachment.

Can I ask about "lot of engine work done on it" - what was it (just a list or like that)? Thx
Here's Champaign's thread with the work he is doing on his 2nd car - the silver one. He has 2, a black one as well. For the black one you can do a search with his name, and it will pop up.
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  #107  
Old 02-16-2012, 08:14 PM
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morrisroad morrisroad is offline
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I'll have to take a look and see if the air temp is culprit...
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  #108  
Old 02-16-2012, 08:29 PM
kgorczyn kgorczyn is offline
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How difficult was it to change this temp sensor? I think I'm going to give it a shot on my 528i
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  #109  
Old 02-17-2012, 10:12 AM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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i have the same question

How difficult is it to CHANGE this o-ring on a temperature sensor?

Do we need to remove the air distribution piece ?
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Last edited by champaign777; 02-17-2012 at 10:13 AM.
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  #110  
Old 02-18-2012, 06:35 AM
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morrisroad morrisroad is offline
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I was taking a look yesterday, you need to remove the cover over the intake. For my car it is in the middle of the intake, and it looks like a small clip. It looks like it will take a minutes, but I wasn't going to mess with it until I have the part in hand. Maybe this week I'll try....
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  #111  
Old 02-18-2012, 09:42 AM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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common
people ask for a single photo of this temperature sensor

JUST DO IT
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  #112  
Old 02-19-2012, 04:15 AM
engel engel is offline
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Here are the pictures...
I think no explanation required this time, on the first 3 pictures you can see the location of the sensor. I've replaced the whole sensor, so what you see on the last 2 pictures is my car's old sensor.
You can also notice the sand on the sensor's grill which was stick on it while the removal process (and also around the other parts of the engine - I haven't cleaned yet).
It's not difficult the change this sensor. You don't have to remove anything else except the plastic cover. The sensor itself fixed with it's small clip. It wasn't so easy to remove because it's stuck a bit in. I've used pincers (carefully) to grab it.

The reason is why I've replaced the whole sensor was that I've ran a couple of times the whole module diag process and found a strange thing. Sometimes the intake air temperature was 0.0 C (only for a few seconds under ignition, not when the engine running) even if the air was colder or hotter for sure. But this was not registered as a failure by the car's computer (not even the diag tool). Maybe it's part of the normal operation - heat up? But that was the reason why I replaced the sensor - I bought a FEBI made one (made in Germany and it's around $14).

One of my friends has an 528i (M52TU engine, so nearly the same as mine M54) and he's got the same problem. He bought only the O-ring this time. I'll help him in the replacement. It will be in the next few days. If someone interested in how the o-ring replacement went I'll write it down...
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Last edited by engel; 02-19-2012 at 05:33 AM.
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  #113  
Old 02-19-2012, 05:24 AM
engel engel is offline
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Another thing what I've noticed when I made these photos. The o-rings around the lines of the air distribution piece are may also fail after a while. On the picture below you can see that there is some oil/dirt/grease above the hole/o-ring. I think now I have to order these 7X3 rings from BMW... (at the moment in my garage only got regular rubber o-rings in this size - I don't want to use them because of the heat of the engine).
I wonder if there will be any effect of these o-ring replacement - because after the air tem. sensor replacement the jerk of the car has gone.
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  #114  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:38 AM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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So this is the same electrical connector under air distribution peace ??
COOL , mucho appreciated, this was a big question to me all time

how you removed it ?
do we need to twist it or just pull it out ?
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  #115  
Old 02-19-2012, 09:47 AM
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and

you need to replace 6 o-rings on air distribution peace



06 O-ring 7X3 6 11617502761 $0.88
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  #116  
Old 02-19-2012, 11:18 AM
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blz456 blz456 is offline
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I am going to order just the o-ring for the temp sensor soon and am interested on how it goes on for your friends 528. I too have the 528 with the m52tu.
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  #117  
Old 02-21-2012, 02:14 PM
engel engel is offline
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Meanwhile in Europe:

Air distribution piece seals: Today I've managed to get to my favorite O-ring shop and buy 6 pcs. of 7X3 o-rings (viton). I've replaced the rings in the evening. It was a little bit harder than I expected. I have to use quiet a big force to pull out the air distribution piece from the intake manifold - I was a little afraid of breaking some plastic Tomorrow I'll write again if there are any changes in the behavior of the car. The old o-rings were a little bit smaller that the new ones (12.3-12.6mm instead of 13mm).

Weeks before I've checked if my DISA or it's seal is in a good condition or not. It was okay not leaking but the seals profile was totally flat. I decided to change it just for prevention. In a few days I'll change that ring also.

Last edited by engel; 02-21-2012 at 02:17 PM.
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  #118  
Old 02-21-2012, 03:32 PM
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I also had that sand/grit around the last 2 of my injectors O-rings (close to the firewall) - when I changed the injectors a few months back - just FYI.
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  #119  
Old 02-23-2012, 05:41 AM
engel engel is offline
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also a FYI post...

Yesterday I've replaced the DISA o-ring. The old gasket was so worn that during the removal it fell into pieces - despite I seemed okay for the first inspection.
I found a regular O-ring size (57 mm X 2.5 mm) which was perfect for my M54 3.0L engine. Pushing back the DISA+new ring into it's place was quiet hard - the new ring is made from that "hard" Viton rubber. Actually I was unable to push it back to fully it's place (okay I did not tried so hard... I haven't got any work space because I left the whole intake rubber boot on engine. I was lazy I just removed the DISA and it's 2 screws). Finally it's snapped in when I was fastening the bolts.
(Not) Surprisingly the engine response is even better now especially on low RPM-s, and maybe the car got stronger with 5-10NM of torque (As I've mentioned above I replaced it just because... - I didn't get any misfire codes, nor SES light, etc.) It was worth it. Easy, cheap and nice improvement.

And a little summary about these E39 (even E60) with M52TU or M54 engines. I really swapped many things on the in the engine (look a few post before) but these small gaskets give the 70% of the improvement*. I suggest everybody to start with them just because maybe your cars ignition, fuel injection is in good condition (or not that bad). I also advice to change all these rubber gaskets because they start to fail after 5-8 years anyway. After these rubber parts replaced you still can swap the ignition coils if the problem still exists.

EDITED:
* - the other 30%? - I think they were: ignition coil BOOTS, Vanos seal, injector cleaning - I have to say again the car was not in that bad condition. There were no problems like: MAF failure, head-gasket problem, bad AC pump, ignition coils or anything like that.

Last edited by engel; 02-23-2012 at 05:52 AM.
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  #120  
Old 02-24-2012, 02:41 PM
bbones bbones is offline
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Have a '99 528i w/54,000 orig. miles & SUDDENLY in afternoon had Rough idle and sputtered out of the garage. Never had this issue before. Got rougher & almost stalled. Starts fine every time AM or PM ( South Florida) Cleaned ALL filters, pulled & cleaned MFS, added injector cleaner to fuel. Pulled ALL plugs (only one was 'slightly dirty' but no oil on any. Put in ALL new plugs and installed new valve cover gaskets (had leak, gaskets over plugs shot but large gasket around cover was still intact). STILL rough idle, only SLIGHTLY better then before, STILL sputters on driving on road. Drove around for a while & let idle a bit. NO change. Pulled plug to check & still looked fine. Disconnected vanos with no change. Don't have access to diagnostics equip., vacum chks, senors, etc..
Same boat as the rest of you. Afraid a trip to BMW maybe called for.
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  #121  
Old 02-24-2012, 09:42 PM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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engel interesting info , thanks for sharing
ignition coil BOOTS you mean part of VCG ?
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  #122  
Old 02-25-2012, 06:43 AM
engel engel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by champaign777 View Post
engel interesting info , thanks for sharing
ignition coil BOOTS you mean part of VCG ?
Sorry, maybe it was not the best description of it .. I mean the "Spark plug socket" (part no.: 12131740477 or 12139067831 if you search for it in parts catalog).
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  #123  
Old 02-25-2012, 09:33 AM
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champaign777 champaign777 is offline
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These coil boots give some improvement for a cold start issue ?
If you don't have misfire do you need to replace them ?
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  #124  
Old 02-25-2012, 02:26 PM
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morrisroad morrisroad is offline
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Replaced the temperature sensor (Vemo brand) from Canada online auto parts. These guys have the best shipping.

Its pretty basic to replace this sensor. You might to clean around the sensor with a small brush or use a vacuum, as there is some accumulated sand there.

1) Remove the vanity cover
2) Press the clip in, remove the plug
3) Press the sensor clip in, I used a long screw driver to pry out.

Replacement is plug it all back the same way you removed it.

I don't believe this will solve the issue, but given the cost of the sensor and other posters experience with it, worth a try.

Since the problem of rough running occurs when it is cold, we'll see.
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  #125  
Old 02-25-2012, 07:51 PM
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why you replaced the whole sensor if you can replace just a o-ring ?
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