Loose gas cap has triggered Service Engine light

Originally Posted by AnotherGeezer

Bee, I can also add that I got my SES light at 7 degrees Fahrenheit after my car sat for 4 days.

That variable might be tough to replicate.

Especially in Santa Cruz.

I have fond memories of tearing up Hecker Pass from Gilroy on the way to the Pajaro Dunes.

Great ride for us kids that went to school in Morgan Hill.

It's even more fun on 2-wheeled BMW.

Originally Posted by AnotherGeezer

for us kids that went to school in Morgan Hill.

You went the other way!

From left to right, while I went from right to left.

What I love about the area here are the wonderful hikes in the hills, with the scent of the laurel is ever so sweet and nary a hiker in sight.

The beaches at Santa Cruz are never crowded (nothing like the Jersey Shore!) and the water is always crisp! (A bit too crisp for my tastes though.)

And, oh, that stinkin' rose!

Bee, as much as I loved the Cruz (both of my graduation parties were spent at the Coconut Grove at the Boardwalk), I spent most of my time up on highway 9 (4-corners)and then either at Castle Rock or Summit Rock as well as highway 35 from Half Moon Bay south. I had a lot of friends that lived in Saratoga.

I was an original Valley Boy.

The roads up there are absolutely amazing. I even tipped a few beers at Alice's.

It didn't matter whether the ride was on 2 or 4 wheels, the scenery was magnificent. That is the California I miss the most.

Originally Posted by AnotherGeezer

I spent most of my time up on highway 9 (4-corners)

I love the drive! I go up from the fire station in Saratoga, through the town, and then winding up to the top at Skyline. Alices restaurant is always filled to the brim with bikers on the weekends, and I park just outside Castle Rock (so as not to pay the fee) and hike the skyline ridge towering just above the San Andreas fault line. I do agree. The scenery is magnificent.

One thing about (native) Californians I've found out, is that they never had to 'fight' the weather, day in and day out. It affects their personalities.

Instead of waking up in the morning shivering, shoveling the snow off the driveway, scraping the ice off the windshield, yanking the frozen door handle up, shivering on the cold leather seats, eking juice out of the battery to start the car, skidding up the driveway slope, plowing through the hump at the edge of the driveway left by the plow, waiting for honking cars to let you onto the road, holding at stoplights three or four iterations before it's your turn, being honked at, having snowballs thrown at you by the kids off from school, stepping into the street in the only parking spot you could find not in 3 inches of water, getting splashed as you wait at a corner to cross the street on the way to work, and finally making it into the warm work place to "start" your nice day among comrades.

Instead of all that ... they wake up toasty, walk to the car and don't even notice the pleasant weather (since it's almost always pleasant), get to work (note all the stuff missed!), and have a nice day among your comrades.

Notice the difference? It affects their personalities out here. Both good and bad. In the good way, they'll stop on the road for anything. I mean it's amazing how you can walk across the street and both sides politely stop until you get back on the sidewalk. Heck, they'll even wait, as pedestrians, at a crosswalk until/unless the little white hand shows up beckoning them, (get this) even if there are no cars for a full two minutes! Native Californians are absolutely amazing. They'll let you merge. They'll wait in line at an intersection without honking (of course, they almost never fall prey to the back-east hysteresis where, at a light, you only move bit-by-bit forward when it's red).

I've even seen (very many times) someone wanting to enter right into a three-lane road like Montegue Expressway yet they immediately want to turn left so they wait wait wait wait as the cars go by until all three lanes on Montegue are empty and then they enter right and cross all three lanes to turn left ... meanwhile - and this is the amazing thing - a dozen cars behind them patiently wait without a single honking of the horn or diatribe against mom and apple pie!

(Native) Californians are simply amazing. They have it so easy (never ever having to 'fight' the weather) that they don't even realize it affects their psyche!

Of course, they'll tell you all about their 'weekend in Tahoe' but even then, they don't realize how benign Tahoe weather is (although the sheer snowfall amount is astoundingly huge). You can often ski in short sleeves for heaven's sake.

< end of diatribe >

Funny how leaving California and living in New England for the past 11 years has giving me new appreciation for that rare sunny day.

Originally Posted by bluebee

...this morning, on an errand, did 'any' warning show, and even then, it was 'only' the cluster alphanumeric display flashing "CHECK FILLER CAP" ever so surreptitiously.

What amazed me is that I then checked the OBDII DTCs and there were "NO CODES".

Unfortunately, I couldn't get to the camera in time (it was in the trunk), so, I'll have to keep the camera around my neck and report back when I do the next drive cycle. ...

Did or do you have the status arrows illuminated on each side of the 20 digit alpha/numeric display? If so, just press the right button on the cluster, and it should bring up any Priority 2 warnings. If the status arrows aren't there...then I guess we'll have to wait for it to happen again and hopefully you can "safely" take a pic.

I'll tell you my experience with this 'check engine light" ..

It came on and I thought it meant "oil change"... so I did that, several day after seeing it. I then reset the oil interval and the light didnt turn off... Then I learned what it was for. In the time that I saw the light and did the oil change, I did get a fuel refill and found the cap to not be tighten properly. So, by the time I did the oil change and realized the CEL was not going to be fixed by the reset, I had been over 100 miles and nearly a week.

I went Autozone, who gave me the P0455 code read out, and refused to reset it for me. So I hung in there for a few more days and another 100 miles.. I opened the cap a few times, the CEL still did not turn off.

So, I got a friend to bring in his code reader and I manually turned it off. It has been 1500 miles and no more code...???? My research showed people waiting up to 2 weeks for that light to turn itself off.

It takes approx 40 drive cycles to clear a code from memory once a problem is properly fixed and a "tool" isn't used to clear and reset the system. The light could possibly go out after 2 drive cycles but the code will still be in memory so it will still fail until approx 40 drive cycles have occurred.

A "drive cycle" (see the chart posted in previous replies) starts when the engine is cold then reaches operating temperature. So it could take up to 40 days if your car is a "garage queen" and you only drive it once a day. If you drive to work 5 days a week and the engine cools down completely before driving home...you could cut the interval to 4 weeks (2x5=10...10x4=40)

You must also realize that not every "driving event" may cover the criteria for a "drive cycle" for the various emissions systems in the car. The various emission systems are divided up into FOUR different categories...with each category having specific criteria that must play its course. Again, see the chart below for what categories and criteria required to accomplish a "drive cycle". This can increase or decrease the amount of time for the CEL/SES to reset itself without the use of a tool...or clearing its memory completely (even with the use of a reset tool):

FTP = federal test procedure

Originally Posted by QSilver7

Did or do you have the status arrows illuminated on each side of the 20 digit alpha/numeric display? If so, just press the right button on the cluster, and it should bring up any Priority 2 warnings

I haven't had a fuel filler cap on my Bimmer since I started this test about a month ago for the team. However, this has been a frustrating test for the team because of intertwined factors.

The main frustration is the fact that the drive cycle is not often run on its own (at least by my driving habits). Since I began this test, the CHECK FILLER CAP has lit up only three or four times in all those intervening weeks (using my normal driving habits).

One problem is that the CHECK FILLER CAP message is frustratingly momentary. As you know, I like to document results, generally with pictures ... so I was frustrated to no end because by the time I stopped the car to snap a picture, it would go away ... and not come back until the NEXT drive cycle was completed!

Following QSilver7's suggestion, it would be great if those two little arrows actually indicated this CHECK FILLER CAP message, but when I press the button as suggested by QSilver7, only my (known) WASHER FLUID LOW message shows up, no matter how often I press the little button.

Basically, here's what (seems to) happen without a fuel filler cap for weeks on end:

1. Every week or so (under my normal drive actions), the BMW drive cycle is at a point where it senses the lack of a fuel filler cap.
2. A warning 'ding' is heard while I'm turning or maneuvering the car in my constricted driveway.
3. The CHECK FILLER CAP message is so momentary that you barely can see it if you're turning your steering wheel.
4. By the time you stop to look, even if you were going only 5 miles per hour, the warning is gone.
5. Typically, the warning happens again, within a few moments of resuming your drive out of the garage down the driveway; and yet again, it lasts barely a second or two before it's gone.
6. Frustratingly, it does not reappear until the NEXT drive cycle (which could be a week or so later!).
7. At some point (I haven't determined exactly when), the SES will light, and the DTC fault code will be P0455.
8. P0455 on my engine computer (ECU: MS43, Engine: M54, from 01.09.01 till 31.08.02) is defined as "Evaporative Emission System Leak Detected (large leak)" ... which isn't surprising since I removed the gas cap.
9. When I clear the P0455 fault code, the error sequence repeats within a week or two as described above (under my normal supermarket-and-coffee-shop shopping driving habits).

Here are pictures of the frustrating sequence, as best as I can record them during the month I've been running this test.


At some point, always in my garage or driveway, a DING is heard and the CHECK FILLER CAP appears for a frustrating second or two only!


Then, that CHECK FILLER CAP message goes away, leaving only these two arrows (you think - but that's wrong) and the SES to indicate the hidden message.


When I press the right instrument cluster button, I do NOT see the CHECK FILLER CAP message! I see only the WASHER FLUID LOW message.


This WASHER FLUID LOW message is known to me as it is due to a separate problem as shown in this thread below:
- Pre-winter inspection of my 2002 windshield washer system


Sadly, when I press again on the cluster right button, I see NO OTHER MESSAGE!

Clearly, I do NOT see "CHECK FILLER CAP" which is what I'd expect to see!
Unfortunately, that CHECK FILLER CAP is an ephemeral message; hard to get; and hard to read; and it lasts only a second or two; and it flashes when you're in the middle of negotiating your garage or driveway!


Looking at what triggered the SES each time (I've run this test two or three times now but with the same results), I see the enigmatic "P0455".


Now, YOU and I know that is telling me my fuel cap is missing; but looking it up properly, I find the following result for a P0455 on what I believe is my engine computer:
- Where are ENGINE-specific BMW P1xxx trouble codes anyway?
"Evaporative Emission System Leak Detected (large leak)"

In summary, please realize I like to be clear and scientific; but reporting on this test is anything but clear and scientific. I'm confused as to a few things:

1. Why is the CHECK FILLER CAP message so ephemeral (lasting only seconds and not repeating like the WASHER FLUID LOW message does)?
   • You'd think they'd want you to KNOW your filler cap is missing the moment it's left on top of the gas station pump.
   • But, this test shows you won't know for a week or more!
2. Where is my fuel filler cap anyway?
   • I seem to have lost it in the intervening weeks since starting this test?
   • I 'thought' I put it on the shelf; but it's not there!

For the cross-linked record, see this thread today:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > E39 gas cap filler/SES light

Originally Posted by daaschoe

I have a 2002 530i with 180k miles. Got SES light and took to non-BMW repair. Mechanic said it was gas filler cap and reset warning lights. A day later my wife got "Ck Filler Cap" warning light briefly and then SES came on again.

Spoke to mechanic and he said it is probably a leak in the fuel vapor control system and to bring it back for a smoke test to search for a leak.

Does this make sense? Also, on other posts on bimmerfest I saw a comment about turning key to position 2 for 10 to 15 seconds to extinguish SES. What does this do?

For the cross-linked record, this related thread was opened today:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > E39 gas cap filler/SES light

Originally Posted by daaschoe

I have a 2002 530i with 180k miles. Got SES light and took to non-BMW repair. Mechanic said it was gas filler cap and reset warning lights. A day later my wife got "Ck Filler Cap" warning light briefly and then SES came on again.

Spoke to mechanic and he said it is probably a leak in the fuel vapor control system and to bring it back for a smoke test to search for a leak.

Does this make sense? Also, on other posts on bimmerfest I saw a comment about turning key to position 2 for 10 to 15 seconds to extinguish SES. What does this do?

BTW, I lost my gas cap during this test, and for months, I've had the SES light ... (every once in a while I look for that cap in my messy garage)

Originally Posted by bluebee

BTW, I lost my gas cap during this test, and for months, I've had the SES light ... (every once in a while I look for that cap in my messy garage)

So you drove for months without a gas cap? Why didn't you just get another for $10? Moreover, how big is your garage to have "lost" it?

Originally Posted by dvsgene

So you drove for months without a gas cap? Why didn't you just get another for $10?

The main problem is that I haven't actually thought about it all that much during this time. Plus, it's kind of interesting to see what happens if you drive for a thousand miles sans a gas cap. Not much (so far).

To be more explicit, I actually had bought the Autozone $39.99 gas cap three times over the past few months!

Three times they tried to ship it to the Autozone store here in California. Three times the order was canceled! The store guy says they give no reasons. He thought it was due to some legal problem somewhere.

I didn't try all that hard for a second source; but, calling the stealer just now, I see that the worst BMW dealership on the planet, Stevenscreek BMW, in San Jose, has it in stock for $35.

Originally Posted by dvsgene

Moreover, how big is your garage to have "lost" it?

It's not so much the size, but the stuff.

I've moved a few times and still haven't unpacked a LOT of boxes in the garage that are scattered about on shelving. Plus the fact that I forgot all about the gas cap and tried already to get it (halfheartedly) three times.

I keep hoping it will just turn up along with the round tuit.

BTW, where do you get the gas cap for $10?

Originally Posted by bluebee

BTW, where do you get the gas cap for $10?

Interesting, if I didn't know any better, I'd say you're just try to get back at Cali for their strict emission standards. Doesn't the gas evaporate from the fill hole without the gas cap?

$10 was what I paid 2 years ago. It is now $12. P/N is 16111184717 for a 98 540.


http://www.trademotion.com/partlocat...&siteid=214760

http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...1-1-184-717-M8

only $8 here.

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...er=16111184717

Seems more expensive for the 2002. P/N 16116756772

http://www.autohausaz.com/search/pro...er=16116756772

Originally Posted by dvsgene

I'd say you're just try to get back at Cali for their strict emission standards.

You do know me well! I'm so mad at them. They just gave me a ticket for putting my 'tags' on wrong (by way of protest) in fact. The bastards!

Originally Posted by dvsgene

Seems more expensive for the 2002. P/N 16116756772

I may as well use this opportunity as my 'round tuit' ... to get a few things that I've needed for a while ...

1. I called your first link, BMW Partz Direct, 203-239-7878
   • The gas cap is $24.82
   • I also need a center brake light bulb socket, which is $7.28
     • They don't give part numbers over the phone
2. I called that second link, Pelican Parts, 888-280-7799x3
   • Fuel cap, P/N 16117222391 $23.75
   • Bulb socket P/N 63258375599, $7.00
3. Calling the third, AutohauzAZ, 800-240-4620
   • Gas cap $19.94
   • They don't stock the bulb socket PN 63258375599

Then I hit pay dirt!

I was glad I called Bavarian Auto Parts in NH, at 800-535-2002 (http://www.bavauto.com).

One reason I haven't gotten these various & sundry parts is the effort involved but Bavauto actually made it easy.

First off, Jesse answered the phone & he cheerfully told me they the three parts in stock (gas cap, center brake light socket, & bulb); and secondly, he helpfully offered to price match when I explained the price searches I had done.

So he kindly matched the AutohausAZ price for the gas cap, at $19.94 and the DDM Tuning price for the center brake lamp bulb (PN 63128370309) $1.51, along with the bulb socket (ooops. I forgot the price he quoted).

Here's a picture of my fuel filler area, just waiting for the gas cap to arrive! (The white arrow shows where all my money goes lately.)

Many many moons ago when I owned my 1983 735i....I simply replaced the rubber gasket on the gas cap.

Is that an option for the E39, i.e. replacing only the rubber seal?

Originally Posted by cn90

Is that an option for the E39, i.e. replacing only the rubber seal?

I think that part number (#18 in the diagram below) has ENDED.

Anyway, the cap is what I need because I lost mine doing that experiment of checking exactly how long and under what conditions the EVAP codes pop up (as explained in the EVAP test thread).

For the record, here are the Realoem part number & nominal prices for the gas cap & rubber seal:
- Gas cap $18.43 P/N: 16116756772
- Rubber Seal ENDED P/N: 16116755071
- Filler Cap Pin ENDED P/N: 16111184156

Originally Posted by cn90

Many many moons ago when I owned my 1983 735i....I simply replaced the rubber gasket on the gas cap.

Is that an option for the E39, i.e. replacing only the rubber seal?

Good question. I just replaced mine with the new updated BMW part this past spring. Mine is an '01, though. It cost about $19 plus shipping.

Blue, here's a link if you're interested:

http://www.eeuroparts.com/Main/PartD...id=16116756772

Originally Posted by menhir

Good question. I just replaced mine with the new updated BMW part this past spring. ...Blue, here's a link if you're interested:
http://www.eeuroparts.com/Main/PartD...id=16116756772

It's great when we look out for each other!

Thanks for the link. I already ordered mine, yesterday, from Jesse at Bavarian Auto Parts in NH who kindly price matched the AutohauzAZ listing, along with having the center brake lamp and bulb in stock so that I could combine what I've needed for a while into a single order.

You see, I buy stuff when I find my round tuits, so, dvsgene's knowing response for me was the impetus to get me going.

I'm like inertia that way: I'm hard to get moving on a BMW problem; but, once I'm on it, I keep going all the way until it's done.

BTW, the Realoem diagram doesn't show the part number for the fuel cap was ever superceded (but it does show the separate components of the fuel cap have been ENDED).

I am under the impression that the fuel cap I will be receiving will have all three components listed in the Realoem diagram; I'll let you guys know when it arrives.

Since links are ephemeral, here's Menhir's link, in screenshot format: PN 16 11 6 756 772 BMW Fuel Tank Cap

Originally Posted by cn90

Many many moons ago when I owned my 1983 735i....I simply replaced the rubber gasket on the gas cap.

Is that an option for the E39, i.e. replacing only the rubber seal?

Naw... they just want your money these days.

I do like the new cap though....rather spiffy it is.

Originally Posted by AnotherGeezer

I do like the new cap though....rather spiffy it is.

Here's a picture of the new cap, from Jesse at Bavarian Auto Parts, which (I presume) has the three components shown in the Realoem diagram:

BTW, it wasn't obvious, at first, how to detach the old hose and how to attach the new hose.

Here, you see it fits into a slot, much like a telephone fits into a wall faceplate.

In a somewhat related cross-link, this thread today has a lot of good information about the fuel system charcoal canister & purge valve operation:
- E39 (1997 - 2003) > EVAP Purge Valve Flow

Originally Posted by hasamu84

My service egine light came on my 2000 528i and the code show P0441 EVAP Incorrect Purge Flow. I need to know where the Purge Valve is located

Note: We need a picture of the charcoal canister in situ on the E39!