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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #26  
Old 05-14-2010, 01:17 PM
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540iman 540iman is offline
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Hey, read the threads guy. I'm EPA section 609 certified and I don't recall anyone talking about adding freon to the high side. Did I miss a post?-I was away- where did someone say thay were adding to the high side? Second, the can said to turn it upside down. Third, even if it didn't it's done all the time. Read the entire thread and then weigh in based upon what you KNOW and not what you THINK.

Really, this is exactly how bull crap gets started. Exactly where do you see ANY comment about someone adding or even thinking about adding freon to the high side? Where? which post? what number? Do you just invent stuff? You need to hang around with Chicken Little.

Last edited by 540iman; 05-14-2010 at 01:22 PM.
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  #27  
Old 05-14-2010, 02:25 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Gentlemen,

Watch the video from the mfg of the gauges and adaptor (Interdynamics):
http://www.id-usa.com/how_to_recharging.asp

1. Always charge through the low-pressure side, regardless of cars.
This is important!

2. Now charging with the can facing upward or upside down: it does not matter much. There are 2 schools on this.
Interdynamics (watch the video) recommends that the can stays up.
This is because R134a (or even the old-fashion freon) evaporates quickly from liquid to gas format (have you ever open a R134a can to the atmosphere, it disappears very quickly!).
This R134a gas is sucked into the low-pressure port anyway.

On the other hand, if you invert the R134a can so the liquid flows into the low-pressure port, there is no harm anyway.

Anyway, stop arguing and wait for Fudman to report back the Fuse #75 and #76 issue LMAO!

Last edited by cn90; 05-14-2010 at 07:51 PM.
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  #28  
Old 05-14-2010, 04:16 PM
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Fudman Fudman is offline
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First off, thanx to everyone for helping put here. I really appreciate it. BTW, I did turn the refrigerant can upside down for a few seconds, per the instructions. They said it was necessary to get the lubricant out of the can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 540iman View Post
The newer fans will have three wires going to them. Two good size wires Like #10 and one puny wire from the DME to control speed.
I can't find the #75 and #76 fuses in the glove box panel. That fuse box only goes to fuse 45. Bentley says it is behind the glovebox so I'll take the glove box off and keep looking.

I looked at the passenger side of the radiator and found a rubber wiring sheath with three wires coming out of it. Two are large (could easily be #10 or so). The third is small, like #16 or #18. This small wire is cut cleanly. Could've been cut during my Vanos job this winter. It must have happened months ago as the tip of the wire is showing some green corrosion. Is this the one to the DME? I'm gonna connect it up tommorrow AM. Bentley says the aux fan should come on during startup. I have not heard it in a while so this could be it.

I'll keep you all posted on what happens. Wish me luck!
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  #29  
Old 05-14-2010, 06:01 PM
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I connected up the small wire but no change. Still no compressor activation. The aux fan did not come on either. Hmmm...
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  #30  
Old 05-14-2010, 06:04 PM
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See attached. color code is black/green to compressor clutch
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  #31  
Old 05-14-2010, 06:43 PM
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Why is it that some who have absolutely nothing to add to a thread except incorrect information or to state the obvious must butt in and ruin a man's quest for facts? Just make assertions that no one has even brought up...like warning people not to charge through the high side...I'm still waiting for waveho to show me where someone ever said to do this or to "read the instructions" brilliant! Read the whole thread before you show your brilliance.

There is no argument here Cn90. I usually find you to be very helpful, but how would you feel if someone jumped into your cooling system re-build DIY to instruct everyone to NOT ADD COOLANT THROUGH THE ALTERNATOR..uh, duh or to find it necessary to shout read the instructions. good luck Fudman. Why clutter a good post with fact when so many are willing to add nothing to your question? Have fun boys and girls! And remember, NEVER turn the can upside down-even if the instructions tell you to. they are wrong and you will lose an eye.
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  #32  
Old 05-14-2010, 07:30 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Fudman,
Fuses #75, 76 are here:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...-fan-fuse.html
LMAO...


540iman,
Please educate me. I have been inverting the R134a cans for years in diff cars. No problems.
From what I have read, it does not matter much whether the can is facing up or down.
I simply followed the instructions on the can over the years and maybe the instruction on the can has been wrong all the way through! Wow....

However, I think you are probably right that the can should be facing up.
Everyone should read this re can facing up or down:
http://www.caraircompressor.net/part...ioning-system/

Last edited by cn90; 05-14-2010 at 07:51 PM.
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  #33  
Old 05-14-2010, 07:45 PM
Waveho Waveho is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 540iman View Post
Why is it that some who have absolutely nothing to add to a thread except incorrect information or to state the obvious must butt in and ruin a man's quest for facts? Just make assertions that no one has even brought up...like warning people not to charge through the high side...I'm still waiting for waveho to show me where someone ever said to do this or to "read the instructions" brilliant! Read the whole thread before you show your brilliance.

There is no argument here Cn90. I usually find you to be very helpful, but how would you feel if someone jumped into your cooling system re-build DIY to instruct everyone to NOT ADD COOLANT THROUGH THE ALTERNATOR..uh, duh or to find it necessary to shout read the instructions. good luck Fudman. Why clutter a good post with fact when so many are willing to add nothing to your question? Have fun boys and girls! And remember, NEVER turn the can upside down-even if the instructions tell you to. they are wrong and you will lose an eye.
Why is it that every thin-skinned kid with a dipstick up his butt, who claims to be a "certified" this or an "expert" that, has to take potshots at people who are in fact trying to help. Obviously my comment about reading the instructions is in direct response to your DEMAND that a can of r134a must NOT be added upside down. Again, talk about misinformation! Explain that one Mr. Brilliant. Still waiting buddy.

And my comment about not adding to the high pressure side was a general warning, not directed toward you (oh, but it's all about you in your world Mr. Thin-skinned Brilliant). There has been a lot of chatter about the relative pressure on each line and I was merely pointing out that one ought not attempt to add refrigerant to the high side without proper equipment and training. Not everyone may realize this. Oh, but I'm sure that you do Mr. Brilliant since you are a certified EPA gobledee****, eh? I stand by my comments and my dismissive assessment of you Mr. Brilliant 540iKid.
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  #34  
Old 05-14-2010, 08:01 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Well,

I look at this issue a bit further since I have been doing this with the can inverted (b/c I followed the instruction on the can!) but apparently no ill effect on the AC compressor!

Anyway I think 540iman is correct. This procedure below is written by the car guru. These gurus write hundreds of articles on car repair and I trust them.

http://www.aa1car.com/library/ac_recharging.htm

Quote:
3. SLOWLY turn the valve back out to release a small amount of refrigerant into the hose. This will blow air out of the hose (which you do not want in your A/C system).

4. Close the valve so no more refrigerant escapes, then quickly connect the other end of the service hose to the LOW pressure service fitting on the A/C system.
CAUTION: DO NOT connect a can of refrigerant to the HIGH side service fitting. The operating pressure inside the A/C system when it is running may exceed the burst strength of the can, causing the can to explode! This should be impossible to do because the service hose for recharging the A/C system will only fit the smaller LOW pressure service fitting. Even so, you should be aware of the danger.

5. Hold the can UPRIGHT so no refrigerant liquid enters the service hose. You only want VAPOR to be pulled into the A/C system (the compressor may be damaged if it sucks in a big dose of liquid!).

Last edited by cn90; 05-15-2010 at 08:13 PM.
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  #35  
Old 05-14-2010, 08:17 PM
Rjim Rjim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
First off, thanx to everyone for helping put here. I really appreciate it. BTW, I did turn the refrigerant can upside down for a few seconds, per the instructions. They said it was necessary to get the lubricant out of the can.



I can't find the #75 and #76 fuses in the glove box panel. That fuse box only goes to fuse 45. Bentley says it is behind the glovebox so I'll take the glove box off and keep looking.

I looked at the passenger side of the radiator and found a rubber wiring sheath with three wires coming out of it. Two are large (could easily be #10 or so). The third is small, like #16 or #18. This small wire is cut cleanly. Could've been cut during my Vanos job this winter. It must have happened months ago as the tip of the wire is showing some green corrosion. Is this the one to the DME? I'm gonna connect it up tommorrow AM. Bentley says the aux fan should come on during startup. I have not heard it in a while so this could be it.

I'll keep you all posted on what happens. Wish me luck!
I have posted several times on aux fan issues as has Jim Rolando. Do a search. The fuses (75 & 76) are not in the glove compartment. They are behind the glove compartment toward the front of the car if you are sitting in the passenger seat; not easy to get to. The broken wire has to be your problem as to the aux fan. Don't know about the refrigerant over/under fill issue. If you can get the aux fan electrical connector mounted on the aux fan housing loose and disconnected (I could not do this), you should find 12+ volts on one of the larger guage wires with ignition off. If you have power to one of the wires ( mine had brown and black going to the connector and blue and black going to the fan or vise versa) then your #75 fuse is ok. The connector itself, I later learned, can be turned about 1/3 left or right, don't remember, and it will disconnect from the aux fan housing. I'm not talking about separating the two halves of the connector, just getting the connector free of the housing so you can get your hands/fingers on it. If you have long, thin strong piano player fingers, you may be able to do this. Good luck.
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  #36  
Old 05-14-2010, 09:24 PM
99SK04GTX 99SK04GTX is offline
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Don't fault the mechanic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
That's a good point. He is supposed to be an A/C specialist, recommended to me by my Honda mechanic (kid's car), who has a Honda specialty shop. However, his logic was not exactly clear. I seem to recall that the pressure was down to about 45-50 psi when the air temp was around 80-85 F but the car's ambient temp guage was reading 76F. Humidity was average. I will recheck the pressure tonite. Thanx.
The compressor was not engaging and you asked him to bleed off all freon. You can't add freon back if the compressor is not running and that would leave the system empty (not good for it).
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  #37  
Old 05-15-2010, 05:23 AM
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540iman 540iman is offline
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First, at 55 I am hardly a kid...been working on AC systems for 30 years. Home systems mainly, but I do hold a Section 609 license which I tested for just so I would be able to by
R12...still think I'm a kid. Read post #7. I was responding to someone telling the OP to never turn the can upside down. I believe I address it there. We do it all the time. Best if you know what you are doing OR the instructions ON THE CAN TELL YOU TO! Reading skills are important boys and girls. I am not an expert on BMW wiring although I have do my share of work on car systems. Fudman obviously is frustrated and therefore talked about getting all the freon out. How do you guys think we get the freon back into a system when we change a compressor and the system is vacuumed down 100%?? I told him not to do that. I still believe based on the ENTIRE thread that he has a tad too much freon-in the system. It is worth a chance bleeding A LITTLE off. I was being sarcastic about never turning the can upside down as someone who does not know crap about A/C "volunteered" what a huge mistake this would be and he is totally wrong.Fudman is confused enough and he need not worry that by doig so,he hurt his system. This topic is one that should be left alone unless you know what you are talking about. I am just always surprised by the bad information people are so willing to volunteer. I'm un-subbing and let you experts help him. No offense CN90. Just don't need to be lectured about being argumentative. When I see total B being tossed around I have to call a spade a spade.

Oh,BTW we already addressed the competence of Fudman's choice of HVAC "experts" who don't know how to refill a car that is empty of freon. We see empty systems everyday-thank God or we would be broke.
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  #38  
Old 05-15-2010, 07:37 AM
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Fudman Fudman is offline
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All:
I just want to say that I greatly appreciate ALL input. As this is an open forum, I fully understand that any response or posting could be right or wrong, whether well intentioned or otherwise. Since it is I who has sought these opinions, it is my responsibility to evaluate the validity of any response and determine whether or not to implement said opinion/recommendation. While I may not fully agree with or even understand every response, I do appreciate everyone who takes the time to express their opinions. The point is, we are all trying to help each other. It is not my intention to start an argument as to who is right or wrong. That serves no productive purpose. I know that we have all been right and wrong at times, so it doesn't really matter. All of your feedback has been extremely helpful in increasing my understanding of the A/C system and my problem. So please keep the feedback coming.

To better describe what I fixed, there is a wiring connector tie wrapped to a vertical member direclty behind the right side of the hood kidney. There are two large (blue & brown) conductors that probably carry power. The third severed conductor is quite small (#16 or #18) and is black. This appears to be close to what Bill (540iman) described so I was optimistic this was the problem. I reconnected (stripped, twisted, soldered and shrink wrapped) that severed wire last night but there was no change to compressor function. This AM, I checked and the error code was still there. I cleared the error code but could not try the A/C or check the #75/76 fuses before my wife took the car (I'm changing the struts on her Explorer this AM). Just wondering if the error code may have precluded compressor function.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.
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  #39  
Old 05-15-2010, 07:48 AM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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540iman,

Actually I appreciate your input. Whether home HVAC or Car HVAC, they are very similar.
Sorry if I cause any bad feeling to anyone, but here are my 2 cents:
- I have been inverting the can for years b/c the can says so, apparently this is wrong ---> OK learned my lesson!
- but as I said I will follow 540iman's advice from now on (R134a can upright), I think 540iman is correct.

I am almost 50 now, never too late to learn, unless you are "6 feet under"...haha!

Thanks 540iman!
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  #40  
Old 05-15-2010, 09:07 AM
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540iman 540iman is offline
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Think there still is a misunderstanding possibly, so I will stop the sarcasm and be straight here. Those in the industry turn freon cans upside down literally "all the time". You just need to know what you are doing. There is a big difference between adding a partial charge to a system that has some freon already in it and charging a system that is empty. No tech will add liquid only to an empty system (turning the can upside down). If the system already has say 1/2 the recommended freon or more, we often turn cans upside down for just the reason you point out CN90 (it turns to gas almost immediately anyway) and it adds freon faster saving time for the tech, but you do NOT want to just only add liquid right from the start to an empty system. You can easily overfill and having all liquid can cause damage. Adding liquid to a system with a decent amount of gas already in it is a different matter and will not hurt a home or car system. It is also MANDATORY with some R134 canners to do so to first get the freon out and then to get the oil into your system as it is not always carried fully in the gas. The can also states when to do so and Fudman read the can and was simply following the correct instructions when someone who doesn't know jumped in and possible scared the crap out of Fudman by telling him by all means DO NOT TURN CAN UPSIDE DOWN. I have an issue with this person who often either gives people the wrong information or calls people "stupid" for doing things like testing fan clutches with a rolled-up newspaper. I was being sarcastic as once again you can't argue with an idiot as they will pull you down to their level. Also, I am very confused why Fudman's DME control wire is "cut" to his fan, yet his system worked a short time ago and the wire has been broken or cut for longer than his system has not worked- which is why I am STILL recommending he bleed off a little freon..My profound apologies to the tree huggers. I have a machine to reclaim, but he does not and I just think in the whole of things the little bit of R134 he would need to bleed off will not cause more than a dozen polar bears to die at most..there I go again...being sarcastic. I'll end up arguing with someone about loving animals...gheez. I can pull out my Bentley which I have not felt the need to do, but I don't think a working aux. fan is necessarily an A/C run permissive.

Hope that clears things up. And to the guy who found it neceesary to warn everybody to not add freon to the high side, I'm not sure why you felt that necessary...you do know that the high and low side schrader valves are different sizes right and that you can't hook a R134 can to anything but the low side, right? Fudman, if you need help, PM me. Bill

Last edited by 540iman; 05-15-2010 at 09:18 AM.
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  #41  
Old 05-15-2010, 09:10 AM
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540iman 540iman is offline
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sry dbl post

Last edited by 540iman; 05-15-2010 at 09:14 AM. Reason: double post
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  #42  
Old 05-15-2010, 05:43 PM
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http://www.id-usa.com/how_to_recharging.asp
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  #43  
Old 05-15-2010, 07:02 PM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Hi guys. I usually hang out in the E9X section but the title of this thread caught my eye. My advice to the OP is: Take it to a professional. You don't know whether you have the correct charge in your system now.

Your AC system is known as a 'critical charge' system. It won't tolerate refrigerant quantities much outside + or - .05 kg, thats five hundredths of a kilogram. A can nowadays-what we used to call a "one pounder" -now holds 14 oz. That is roughly .4kg, or EIGHT TIMES the tolerance band of a proper charge.

No matter what the OP finds out about his fan, he is going to need the system vacuumed down to remove moisture, and properly recharged. He should take it to someone properly trained and licensed to do the work.

Now, about how to charge an AC system. I will tell you how a professional (not a DIY with hand held cans!) does it. He does it with liquid through the high side. In fact, many cars now do not come with a low side fitting specifically to prevent low side charging. Of course the system is 'off' and therefore the compressor isn't running. The refrigerant is heated slightly in our recharge machines which brings the source pressure up to the low hundred range. As long as the underhood temperature is not too high we can easily get the total charge in as liquid through the high side.

Occasionally the underhood temps are too high which results in the refrigerant system pressure being higher than the charging machine. At that point, if there is no low side fitting, we have to put a fan on the condenser to cool things off and lower the system pressure. Otherwise we can swith over our machine, start the engine and ac system, and recharge liquid through the low side.

Notice I said liquid through the low side. That's because all machines only put out liquid. BUT since the low side pressure is a lot lower than machine pressure the liquid vaporizes as it enters the low side. So even though we are pumping liquid, the liquid is a gas before it ever gets to the compressor. (I repeat; the system is RUNNING. If liquid is added to the low side of a system which is 'off' and then it is started there is a good chance of liquid hitting the compressor. Liquid is not compressible. Very bad things instantly will happen to a compressor which gets liquid slugged.)

540iman, I understand your frustration. You tried to help someone who needed a lot more information to get the job done right, and as these things do, it turned kind of ugly. I have 32 years experience in automotive AC, I am a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers, ASE certified in HVAC, and was one of the first in NH to be EPA licensed.

It is very difficult to help someone on any forum because of all the misinformation thought to be fact, and harmful 'help' from armchair experts. I hate to go around saying I'm an expert in this or that, but how else do we establish that we know what the heck it is we are talking about?
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  #44  
Old 05-15-2010, 07:24 PM
cn90 cn90 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
...I have 32 years experience in automotive AC, I am a member of the Society of Automotive Engineers, ASE certified in HVAC, and was one of the first in NH to be EPA licensed...
Expertise from someone like yourself is always appreciated here. Most of us here are Saturday mechanics.
When it comes to HVAC, it is a "different animal", so your expertise comes in handy! Thanks for your input though!

---------
Fudman,
Once you have the system properly charged, hope the system runs, if not then think through all the steps involved when you activate the AC:
- HVAC button: is it OK
- HVAC Panel in the center dash: hope it is OK
- Circuit
- Relay (if any)
- AC compressor switch/solenoid
- AC compressor itself.
- High-side Switch
- Low-side Switch
- Wiring itself.

Last edited by cn90; 05-15-2010 at 08:10 PM.
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  #45  
Old 05-15-2010, 08:07 PM
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540iman 540iman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtxragtop View Post
You kept the can with the valve on the top right side up at all times correct so that only gas, not liquid entered the system?
Did you alert Interdynamics that they are doing it all wrong as they show a can upside down or is this your way of saying "sorry, I gave incorrect information and will make sure I know what I'm talking about before posting in the future"? You should try it one time... you'll feel better for admitting you are still learning like the rest of us =)

Fudman, if you have the ability to leave a pressure gauge on the system low side and can still release freon, Make sure it is at least 70 degree outside and set the system to 60 and select A/C. As you release freon, hopefully you system will start when enough has be released. Continue to release an additional 5 pounds at least. Make sure radiator coolant is up to temp as if it is cold, AC will not come on as turning on blower recirc. air is detected as cold and would function as A/C until coolant temp is sufficiently high so that it is not able to lower cabin air temp just by use of blower. A/C high pressure cut-out switch has four wires coming from it and BMW does not tell us the pin out connections for all four wires. On O warm day with engine coolant plenty warm, then try the A/C as you let freon out.
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  #46  
Old 05-15-2010, 08:34 PM
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540iman 540iman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Your AC system is known as a 'critical charge' system. It won't tolerate refrigerant quantities much outside + or - .05 kg, thats five hundredths of a kilogram. A can nowadays-what we used to call a "one pounder" -now holds 14 oz. That is roughly .4kg, or EIGHT TIMES the tolerance band of a proper charge.
You are 100% right, except I would charge the low side as it is safer for the diy'er. I had not seen your post DSXMachina when I posted my last one. I agree in principle that a licensed HVAC expert should be used, but most don't know BMWs and while the WEIGHT of the charge is somewhat critical, the pressure is not that critical since temp and humidity will take that 750 grams of refrigerant +/- 10 grams and create a fairly wide band of pressures and it is an incorrect pressure that can keep his system from functioning at all and not an incorrect weight of freon in the system. You need to know this weight of freon so that you can properly charge an empty system and that weight of freon should create the right pressure across all temps and humidity's, but only an incorrect pressure will keep a BMW system from running and not an incorrect charge. Obviously the incorrect weight charge will translate to an incorrect pressure, but he can still bleed off some freon until his compressor starts *IF* it is due to him adding too much freon which is likely as he said his system worked not long ago. He may find that when he releases freon that his compressor will start and then if the next day is hotter and the humidity is far different he may need to release more to get the system to run again. I agree this is a rather 1/2 ass way to back into a working amount of freon, but that is what this forum is all about-DIY. Money is often an issue so I say he has nothing to lose by letting freon out as long as he remembers he is releasing from the low side (that is where I would release as an amateur) and it may seem to be a whole lot of freon escapes before he makes much change in pressure to get into the right range. Welcome to the E39 group and your advice here will be greatly appreciated as an offset to some of the BS being tossed around here! I always try to help people by assuming they are on their last dollar and really are willing to do whatever work is necessary to get a problem fixed. If money is not an issue, he can always take to a reputable shop and have his wallet in hand!

Welcome-welcome-welcome DSXMachina!!! good information is at a premium-please stay with Fudman. He's a good guy from what I have seen of his posts as is CN90. great contributors.

Last edited by 540iman; 05-15-2010 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 05-15-2010, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudman View Post
The forum consensus was to simply add refrigerant.
Just a quick question please ... if i may ...

If the air coming out of the A/C set to 60F isn't all that cold ... is it the general consensus that the freon level is low?

I don't know A/C systems but I would think there is a "level indicator" somewhere because, I would think, lots of things might cause the A/C to not be cold.

Can you edify me on how to tell if your freon level is low?
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Old 05-16-2010, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by 540iman View Post
Did you alert Interdynamics that they are doing it all wrong as they show a can upside down or is this your way of saying "sorry, I gave incorrect information and will make sure I know what I'm talking about before posting in the future"? You should try it one time... you'll feel better for admitting you are still learning like the rest of us =)

Fudman, if you have the ability to leave a pressure gauge on the system low side and can still release freon, Make sure it is at least 70 degree outside and set the system to 60 and select A/C. As you release freon, hopefully you system will start when enough has be released. Continue to release an additional 5 pounds at least. Make sure radiator coolant is up to temp as if it is cold, AC will not come on as turning on blower recirc. air is detected as cold and would function as A/C until coolant temp is sufficiently high so that it is not able to lower cabin air temp just by use of blower. A/C high pressure cut-out switch has four wires coming from it and BMW does not tell us the pin out connections for all four wires. On O warm day with engine coolant plenty warm, then try the A/C as you let freon out.
For what it is worth, this particular can is designed to be used upside down NOT right side up. Do we know that it is injecting liquid? Nope! We do know that your supposed to shake well, add some, the remove shake well and add more. Perhaps it is liquid and it has a very small metering valve that allows the liquid to become gas before it enters the compressor.

I do not see any info here telling you to turn the can upside down. http://www.id-usa.com/pdf/inst/MAC-134.pdf

I do see where it is stated that gas goes into low side, and liquid can go into high side.
http://www.id-usa.com/pdf/inst/MG-134.pdf

Then there is another set of instructions here stating that upside down is only relevant on an EMPTY system. Once you reach 85%, then use right side up.
http://www.id-usa.com/pdf/inst/RK-9.pdf


I'm not about to go read the instructions on every different variant of refrigerant. With the pointers I've posted, you can take the time to read every one if you wish in an attempt to back up your claims. I personally believe you are taking basic knowledge and are applying it to all situations which you clearly cannot. In general, adding in liquid to a system that is mostly charged by back yard mechanics like 99% of us is not a good thing to do. When in doubt, follow the detailed instructions exactly on the product your using. Does this apply to all situations no. And lastly, since 99% of us are not experts on BMW AC systems, there may be special requirements NOT covered by a generic can of refrigerant. The BMW TIS does NOT discuss pressures for charging, only the total amount of charge which is very specific and requires you to remove and recharge.


Fudman, exactly which product did you use?


Here is some additional pressure data from the TIS (see attachment)
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Last edited by gtxragtop; 05-16-2010 at 07:51 AM.
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  #49  
Old 05-16-2010, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 540iman View Post
You are 100% right, except I would charge the low side as it is safer for the diy'er. I had not seen your post DSXMachina when I posted my last one. I agree in principle that a licensed HVAC expert should be used, but most don't know BMWs and while the WEIGHT of the charge is somewhat critical, the pressure is not that critical since temp and humidity will take that 750 grams of refrigerant +/- 10 grams and create a fairly wide band of pressures and it is an incorrect pressure that can keep his system from functioning at all and not an incorrect weight of freon in the system. You need to know this weight of freon so that you can properly charge an empty system and that weight of freon should create the right pressure across all temps and humidity's, but only an incorrect pressure will keep a BMW system from running and not an incorrect charge. Obviously the incorrect weight charge will translate to an incorrect pressure, but he can still bleed off some freon until his compressor starts *IF* it is due to him adding too much freon which is likely as he said his system worked not long ago. He may find that when he releases freon that his compressor will start and then if the next day is hotter and the humidity is far different he may need to release more to get the system to run again. I agree this is a rather 1/2 ass way to back into a working amount of freon, but that is what this forum is all about-DIY. Money is often an issue so I say he has nothing to lose by letting freon out as long as he remembers he is releasing from the low side (that is where I would release as an amateur) and it may seem to be a whole lot of freon escapes before he makes much change in pressure to get into the right range. Welcome to the E39 group and your advice here will be greatly appreciated as an offset to some of the BS being tossed around here! I always try to help people by assuming they are on their last dollar and really are willing to do whatever work is necessary to get a problem fixed. If money is not an issue, he can always take to a reputable shop and have his wallet in hand!

Welcome-welcome-welcome DSXMachina!!! good information is at a premium-please stay with Fudman. He's a good guy from what I have seen of his posts as is CN90. great contributors.
I understand what your method is trying to accomplish, and agree that if it is "DIY" or nothing then that's the way to go. If the OP follows your method, the system starts and is blowing cold air, he's golden. If not he should stop and take it to someone who will ensure the correct charge is in the system before trouble shooting. The OP shouldn't just start to jump relays and switches until he knows that the system is properly charged. A lot of harm can be done, very quickly, if an error is made.

To those who may not know, when we talk about "pounds" we are sometimes referring to pressure, and sometimes to weight. The terms are not interchangeable, and in fact may have no relationship. When 540iman talks about "5 pounds" above, he is referring to pressure.

When systems are tested we are almost always exclusively referring to pressure. When a system is charged a quantity of refrigerant is added, it is dispensed by weight. That is the only sure way to add the correct charge because pressure will vary with the ambient temperature.
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Old 05-16-2010, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by gtxragtop View Post
Fudman, exactly which product did you use?
Dave: Sub Zero R-143a Synthetic A/C Booster from Autozone.

I attempted to find the #75 fuse but there is a panel blocking the way with no apparent fasteners. I'll have to give this more thought. Too tired to make any attempts as I spent all weekend attempting to replace the struts on my Explorer only to end up with a FAIL! I fractured a Craftsman 1/2" drive 15/16" socket and a 4 inch 1/2" extension while loosening the control arm bolt! Now that is tight!

I think it is time for the pros. After this and my recent Explorer experience, my DIY skills clearly are lacking. Clearly, the compressor was working (because I could add refrigerant) but it is no longer working. That would also mean the activation circuitry should also be functional. While the severed wire looked like it was related, it was not the cure (also it appeared cut well before I loaded the refrigerant). Excess pressure on the low side did not seem to fix it either as my pressure appears to be OK now. Either way, I need to have the system drained and refilled properly, so that looks like step 1. It could be the fuse, as those can go quickly. Possibly a relay but that is not as likely. This may take a few days as I travel this week. I'll keep you all posted on the outcome.

Last edited by Fudman; 05-16-2010 at 01:25 PM.
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