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F10 / F11 (2011 - Current)
The new chapter in the highly successful story of the BMW 5 Series Sedan (F10) and wagon (F11)

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  #1  
Old 05-02-2010, 09:54 PM
NVJeff NVJeff is offline
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Mein Auto: 2003 BMW 540i Sport
2011 535i Lease, Has anyone got close to $700 per month???

I am wondering if anyone has gotten anywhere close to $700 per month (pre-tax)on a 2011 535i (sport package etc. equipped) with minimum down payments??

I recently turned in my beautiful 2008 550i with M Sport Package and am considering the 2011 535i.

I really want to downsize my lease costs at the same time and have been fooling around with some estimated lease pricing. Using factors I saw posted here (.0025 factor for 535i and 60% residual for 12K miles at 36 months) I calculate a payment before taxes of $813 per month.

I came up with an estimated sticker price of $61,750 with eqt I need (hmm, maybe I should look at the 550i again) and figured on getting a car for around $1,000 over invoice or about $57,810. I got $500 over invoice on my last 550i so maybe I will do a little better.

I did notice the lease factor on the 550i is a little better and wonder if there is any wiggle room or negotiating leverage for a lower lease factor (but with minimum down payment).

I am not really sure I am estimating the lease correctly though as I don't know how to account for destination charges and things like that. Since I am coming off a BMW lease I do recall some of the security fees are waived or reduced.

Any comments or insights will be greatly appreciated!
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  #2  
Old 05-03-2010, 12:49 AM
pharding pharding is offline
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You need to determine what the BMW Buy Rate is and assume that you can achieve that with negotiation skills. You need to determine what the fees and taxes are. Determine what fees are taxed. You need to run the numbers yourself using LeaseWizard software or this http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm or similar calculator at Edmund's. If you do not make the effort yourself, it will be difficult to get a fair deal for yourself.
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  #3  
Old 09-21-2010, 12:52 PM
moonsault270 moonsault270 is offline
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Mein Auto: 2011 535i
I was able to get @ $699 per month. Put $1,228 down. 2011 535i, M sport package, Ipod(6FL) Sports Trans (2TB).

Im in NY so all tax are paid up front.
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  #4  
Old 09-21-2010, 01:03 PM
BlackBerryCubed BlackBerryCubed is offline
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you dint get the navigation?
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  #5  
Old 09-21-2010, 01:47 PM
moonsault270 moonsault270 is offline
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Nope.Coming off the 08 E60 that had navi, NEVER used it. Wont miss it at all. Grew up in NYC can get around blindfolded! Plus my wifes truck which I use in the winter and to haul the kids around on road trips has Navi if i go out of town.

Wanted to put the $ into performance rather that all the convenience /comfort/electronics etc.. Got the sport to include EDS ARS and Adaptive drive , plus the Sport transmission.

If im not mistaken ( i can be though) the lease rates are negotiable, destination of $875 is built into MSRP. Bank Acquistion Fee of $725 is non-negotiable as its charged by BMWFS and your security deposit is waived if your coming off a BMW lease. The $350 disposition fee is also not charged if you re-lease a BMW.
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  #6  
Old 09-21-2010, 02:14 PM
BlackBerryCubed BlackBerryCubed is offline
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so the non nav cars come with the smaller 5 inch screen? does that look ok?
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  #7  
Old 09-21-2010, 02:35 PM
moonsault270 moonsault270 is offline
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I dont know. Have not taken delivery of car yet. Hopefully by late October. M Package just went into september production models. I thought it was 7" without Nav and 10" with Nav.
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  #8  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:19 PM
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Elias Elias is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moonsault270 View Post
I was able to get @ $699 per month. Put $1,228 down. 2011 535i, M sport package, Ipod(6FL) Sports Trans (2TB).

Im in NY so all tax are paid up front.
Would you care to give more details on your deal, $699 a month that's what you pay for a great deal on a 335i. I would love to get that deal on a 535i do share?
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  #9  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:27 PM
shortcut3d shortcut3d is offline
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Mein Auto: '11 535i F10
I got down to $729/mo but essentially doubled the minimum "drive-off" amount. Sport Package, Premium 2, Comfort Access Package, Sport Auto Transmission.
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  #10  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:30 PM
jimefam jimefam is offline
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Yeah non-nav screen is 7". Nice payment amount though!

Last edited by jimefam; 09-21-2010 at 03:39 PM.
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  #11  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:36 PM
DXK DXK is offline
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Metalic paint,sport auto, sport and dynamic drive packages, premium, nav, sat radio, cold weather, you can do just under $800 pre-tax, with lease buy rate and $1k over invoice or $730 for euro delivery (with $725 acq fee rolled in)
This is just a sample, it is the best you can do.
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Last edited by DXK; 09-21-2010 at 04:43 PM.
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  #12  
Old 09-21-2010, 05:21 PM
moonsault270 moonsault270 is offline
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If my math is correct I feel I received a good deal This is my second car from dealership and my father has been leasing his from them for the last 15 years or so. I basically walked in said lets negotiate a fair price and we agreed that $55,450 (MSRP $58,975 incl destination) is fair which would be between 6-7% off MRSP, which is good, not quite jaw dropping spectacular...may have been able to push for another point but Im satisfied. He didnt nickle and dime me with fees, was very straigh forward and i didnt do the same with the options. I hear guys walking into dealerships w confidential wholesale price lists and want everything under the sun for nothing!! Not my style.

Loaded my 08 E60 w the lux items, Navi, Premium etc.. and did not purchase the handling performance options 3 years ago so I kind of went the opposite this time around.

011 F10 w M sports package, Dakota Leather, Metallic Paint, IPOD. Thats all.
36 Months 10k per year, $1,228 down (drive off amount??) I requested nothing down but i was told I had to on the M pcke order. Didnt fight it. No Biggie. $699 1st month, $0 Deposit, tax @ $2338, Bank Fee $725 no MACO or Training Fee..tire, fuel inspection blah blah and $5137 due at signing.

If you read the other posts regarding the DHP ZSP packages I too did not realize what the 2TB was. Thought it was just paddle shifters. Was able to add yesterday and my payments are about $708 per month or so.

If you see i screwed up big time somewhere PLEASE dont even bring to my attention been crunching numbers for weeks and ill be up all night tossing and turning just waiting for the dealer to open tomorrow morning!!!!
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  #13  
Old 09-24-2010, 08:42 AM
bklyn550 bklyn550 is offline
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Anyone in NYC needs a good deal just PM me I do leasing and wouldlove to help my fellow board members out.....dealers are in business to make money....you did a good job but calling someone like me takes the worry our of the job i shop the price around and get you the lowest number...at this point at 7off i can tell you that you got a very good deal.
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  #14  
Old 09-24-2010, 11:37 AM
Newmanium Newmanium is offline
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You never have to put anything down - they can ask for a deposit at time of order, but that's separate. Much better to do MSDs than put anything down - if you total the car, the down payment is lost, whereas you get your MSDs back (and enjoy the discount on the MF in the meantime).
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  #15  
Old 09-24-2010, 01:57 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is online now
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Are you sure of that? Have you run the numbers? How many cars have you totalled? How many folks do you personally know, in your age group, have totalled high end cars? The higher the MSRP of a car, the less likely it is to be written off in an accident, all other things being equal.

You can save a lot by putting money down, especially if the MF is high. For example in both cases, if I max MSDs, and put $0 down on the first, and $17,000 down on the other (basically buying the cap cost down to the residual), on the same spec of a 535i European Delivery, 9.25% sales tax:

With $0 down and max MSDs:
Monthly Payment: $770.78
Total Payments: $27,748.10

With $17000 down and max MSDs:
Monthly Payment: $215.69
Downpayment (incl tax): $18,572.50
Total Payments: $26,337.34

Savings: $1,410.76

That's a 2.5% (tax free) return on your downpayment. In these days of 1% return on CDs (before taxes), money down may not be as bad as it used to. And you won't be able to apply all of that downpayment to a CD, since you'll have to start using it gradually to make the higher monthly payment.
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3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454

Last edited by chrischeung; 09-24-2010 at 02:28 PM.
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  #16  
Old 09-24-2010, 02:44 PM
Newmanium Newmanium is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
Are you sure of that? Have you run the numbers? How many cars have you totalled? How many folks do you personally know, in your age group, have totalled high end cars? The higher the MSRP of a car, the less likely it is to be written off in an accident, all other things being equal.

You can save a lot by putting money down, especially if the MF is high. For example in both cases, if I max MSDs, and put $0 down on the first, and $17,000 down on the other (basically buying the cap cost down to the residual), on the same spec of a 535i European Delivery, 9.25% sales tax:

With $0 down and max MSDs:
Monthly Payment: $770.78
Total Payments: $27,748.10

With $17000 down and max MSDs:
Monthly Payment: $215.69
Downpayment (incl tax): $18,572.50
Total Payments: $26,337.34

Savings: $1,410.76

That's a 2.5% (tax free) return on your downpayment. In these days of 1% return on CDs (before taxes), money down may not be as bad as it used to. And you won't be able to apply all of that downpayment to a CD, since you'll have to start using it gradually to make the higher monthly payment.
Gap insurance is included in BMW leases - if you total the car, you won't have to pay a cent to walk away. If you put a downpayment down, you don't get a refund. I haven't totalled a car, but it happens. If you put $17k down, that's a chunk of change to worry about trying to claw back from your insurance or BMW's gap.

For me, a 2.5% return isn't worth tying up 17k in cash for 3 years. Also don't have to worry about losing the money if the car was totalled.
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  #17  
Old 09-24-2010, 03:04 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is online now
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From memory, the median household income of a 5er buyer is $180K+ (this was a few years ago). I doubt $17K is a large amount to those folks - say $500,000 conservatively in net assets. So if it is a small amount (meaning that the client would not miss the money if it were suddenly gone), and the odds of totalling are less than the ROI difference, I personally cannot see any reason not to put money down (with MSDs) if you're planning on seeing out the full length of the lease.

What would you do with an extra $17K that would get a better return for similar risk of totalling a car? It's also buying you a MUCH lower monthly payment.

Sure, if you think you can do better investing in stocks or business, then do so - but likely the risks will be greater. If you lose that money in the market, it's gone. But put it down on a lease, and you'll still be enjoying that monthly payment - for 3 years no less. Arguably, you're risking just as much (if not more) financing or paying cash for a car - and a lot of people do that.
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3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454

Last edited by chrischeung; 09-24-2010 at 04:40 PM.
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  #18  
Old 09-24-2010, 05:37 PM
Jack Stefano Jack Stefano is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrischeung View Post
From memory, the median household income of a 5er buyer is $180K+ (this was a few years ago). I doubt $17K is a large amount to those folks - say $500,000 conservatively in net assets.
Ha! I doubt more than 5% of households making 180k have anywhere near 500k in assets. As a money manager, I'm actually quite sure of that. People who make 180k and buy 60k cars do not have money in the bank generally, nevermind 500k net.
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  #19  
Old 09-24-2010, 10:59 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is online now
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I can't say I agree (or disagree). The stats I saw, interestingly enough, included other demographic/financial data, but not net worth - only income. I guess with leasing, car makers don't really need to care about net worth, just what's coming through each month. The median age was in the 50s.

I've also read about the HENRY's - High Earners Not Rich Yet. Generally professionals making $250K+ household incomes saddled with student loans and perceived lifestyles. As with any journalism, I'm a little sceptical of the examples given being represented as mainstream, when in fact they may be atypical.

Let's flip the argument the other way. Someone who makes $540K in 3 years, IMHO, is not really going to mind if they spent $450K or $470K. The difference would be slight in many cases?

Or how about saying this - for those folks with sufficiently high income and net assets, wouldn't it generally make sense to max out MSDs and Downpayment on leases that carry a high MF rate?
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3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454

Last edited by chrischeung; 09-25-2010 at 05:39 AM.
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  #20  
Old 09-25-2010, 06:31 AM
smhoer smhoer is offline
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It's all about your tolerance for acceptable risk. I would not hesitate to put a couple thousand down to get a lease payment into a specific target range. However, I would not risk more on the chance the car would get totaled and I would lose that money when the GAP paid only what I owed on the lease. Everyone has their own risk tolerance level (income, personality, spouse ).
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  #21  
Old 09-25-2010, 07:07 AM
Newmanium Newmanium is offline
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Overall average age of BMW owners = 49, with a median income of $170k

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...8023174411.htm

170k sounds like a lot, but after you subtract college savings, tax, mortgage, 2 or 3 car payments, credit cards, 401k matching, etc. - you're not left with as much as you'd think. And for most people, 2.5% return isn't worth sinking 17k into a semi-risky investment.
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  #22  
Old 09-25-2010, 07:21 AM
Financeman Financeman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smhoer View Post
It's all about your tolerance for acceptable risk. I would not hesitate to put a couple thousand down to get a lease payment into a specific target range. However, I would not risk more on the chance the car would get totaled and I would lose that money when the GAP paid only what I owed on the lease. Everyone has their own risk tolerance level (income, personality, spouse ).
Essentially you are saying you would NEVER purchase a new car because the risk of an accident related loss is too high for you. I respect that and tend to agree that a lease is a good way to mitigate risk in this area.

New or a lease, your insurance company will pay what the car is worth if it is totalled. Gap insurance will make up the difference if you are upside down with your lease. If you were to pay cash for a new car, in the event of a total loss, you would lose the difference between the market value and what you paid. I've have done the large down payment leases several times....I have visited with my insurance rep about this issue....the financial risk of this type of lease is no different than if I made a cash purchase or a large downpayment credit purchase (except for the loss of the lease inception fee).

Concerning high income/high net worth buyers, I too was in the financial management area for a few years and very much agree with the comment that high earnings does not equal high net worth. By the way, $500,000 is not a high net worth in my opinion. It is simply amazing the number of people with good income who spend it all and never accumulate wealth. I suspect there are alot of BMW owners that fit this profile. An expensive car, lease or purchase, is a very poor investment.....but we all know that........

Last edited by Financeman; 09-25-2010 at 07:23 AM.
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  #23  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:35 AM
smhoer smhoer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newmanium View Post
overall average age of bmw owners = 49, with a median income of $170k

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...8023174411.htm

170k sounds like a lot, but after you subtract college savings, tax, mortgage, 2 or 3 car payments, credit cards, 401k matching, etc. - you're not left with as much as you'd think. And for most people, 2.5% return isn't worth sinking 17k into a semi-risky investment.
spot on!
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  #24  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:38 AM
smhoer smhoer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Financeman View Post
Essentially you are saying you would NEVER purchase a new car because the risk of an accident related loss is too high for you. I respect that and tend to agree that a lease is a good way to mitigate risk in this area.
Not true, I lease because I get a new car every two to three years. Leasing makes much more sense for short term ownership. The only cars I purchase are those I know we will keep until they die. Like our Honda soccer mom mini-van which gets massive mileage piled on it. Or the 67 Camaro I restored and kept for 15 years.
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  #25  
Old 09-25-2010, 08:57 PM
chrischeung chrischeung is online now
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2012 ActiveHybrid 750i ED

3/12 ED 7 - thread ID 610350
1/11 ED 6 - thread ID 5767556&postcount=175
4/10 ED 5 - thread ID 453501
5/08 ED 4 - thread ID 290679
3/07 ED 3 - thread ID 201013
3/06 ED 2 - thread ID 136454

Last edited by chrischeung; 09-25-2010 at 09:00 PM.
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