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X5 E70 (2007 - 2013)
E70 BMW X5 produced between 2007 and 2013. Discuss the E70 X5 with other BMW owners here.

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  #1  
Old 05-03-2010, 02:17 PM
2011x5d 2011x5d is offline
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X5 35d vs 35i

Ordered 35d on April 15 and was told it would be available on mid May. Got a call from dealer today and told me the car won't be ready until the first week of June. However, the 35i is sitting on their lot and give me the option to switch to 35i. I know the 35i got more powerful engine and a new 8 speed transmission which gives the 35i better 0-60 performance over 35d and very close gas/mileage.

The car I ordered has identical options as the 35i on their lot. My question is should I switch to the 35i or wait my 35d?
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  #2  
Old 05-03-2010, 02:58 PM
twhit1 twhit1 is offline
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Negative. The 35i will never be close to the 35d in terms of mileage performance. The EPA's estimates for diesel cars materially under reports the true mileage performance of the vehicle (not just for BMW, but for all diesel cars). For example, I am currently getting north of 24mpg in the city alone and easily get +30mpg highway. I have a 335xi coupe as well and that engine eats gas if you don't watch it. I typically get 15 in the city with the 335xi coupe vs the EPA number of 17. For real-world driving, I bet you will be hard pressed to notice which vehicle is faster. The massive torque in the diesel is great around the city and passing on the highways. I would also bet the 35d will hold its value more so than the 35i (diesel cars typically have better residuals than their gas counterparts). Just look at the old 3.0i, they are a dime a dozen.
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  #3  
Old 05-03-2010, 02:58 PM
XXX555 XXX555 is offline
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Go and drive the 35i.
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  #4  
Old 05-03-2010, 03:06 PM
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0428 0428 is offline
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The monster toque is mostly useful when trying to pass and you are at speed already. In city stop & go traffic it moves like, well...........
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  #5  
Old 05-03-2010, 03:13 PM
sdbrandon sdbrandon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2011x5d View Post
Ordered 35d on April 15 and was told it would be available on mid May. Got a call from dealer today and told me the car won't be ready until the first week of June. However, the 35i is sitting on their lot and give me the option to switch to 35i. I know the 35i got more powerful engine and a new 8 speed transmission which gives the 35i better 0-60 performance over 35d and very close gas/mileage.

The car I ordered has identical options as the 35i on their lot. My question is should I switch to the 35i or wait my 35d?
Questions?
1. What is the cost difference?
2. Are you buying or leasing (if leasing don't pay extra for diesel)
3. How many miles you drive a year?

4. At $4 per gallon for fuel, and a 22 gal tank,a fill up costs $88.
So, let's assume the gas version averages 18 MPG, and you drive 12k miles per year. Over 10 years, you will drive 120,000 miles and will need 6,666 gallons of gasoline which will cost approx. $26k.

Now let's assume you bought the diesel and average 30MPG. Doubtful but will be generous. To drive the same 120,000 miles, you would use 4000 gallons of diesel ($4 per gallon as well). So it would cost you $16k for fuel over 10 years.

So you would save $10k, but it will take you 10 years to save the $10k. Factor in the additional cost of the diesel and maybe you save $6k total.

In the end you would have to drive the diesel at least 5 years to even make any difference at all.

Buy a diesel truck for more torque/towing ability;n ot to save money on gas. You would buy a $15k VW rabbit diesel for that.
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Last edited by sdbrandon; 05-03-2010 at 03:36 PM.
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  #6  
Old 05-03-2010, 03:15 PM
twhit1 twhit1 is offline
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Originally Posted by 0428 View Post
The monster toque is mostly useful when trying to pass and you are at speed already. In city stop & go traffic it moves like, well...........
...like a rocket.
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  #7  
Old 05-03-2010, 03:18 PM
twhit1 twhit1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbrandon View Post
Questions?
1. What is the cost difference?
2. Are you buying or leasing (if leasing don't pay extra for diesel)
3. How many miles you drive a year?

4. A $4 per gallon for fuel, and a 22 gal tank,a fill up costs $88.
So, let's assume the gas version averages 18 MPG, and you drive 12k miles per year. Over 10 years, you will drive 120,000 miles and will need 6,666 gallons of gasoline which will cost approx. $26k.

Now let's assume you bought the diesel and average 30MPG. Doubtful but will be geneous. To drive the same 120,000 miles, you would use 4000 gallons of diesel ($4 per gallon as well). So it would cost you $16k for fuel over 10 years.

So you would save $10k, but it will take you 10 years to save the $10k. Factor in the additional cost of the disel and maybe you save $6k total.

In the end you would have the drive the diesel at least 5 years to even make any difference at all.

Buy a diesel truck for more torque/towing ability; ot to save money on gas. You would buy a $15k VW rabbit diesel for that.

Given that the 35d is as cheap or cheaper than the 35i, this analysis is mute. Thank you $4,500 eco-credit and $900 government tax credit. Assuming diesel doesn't cost you 30% more than premium fuel, you will be saving money every mile you drive.
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  #8  
Old 05-03-2010, 03:37 PM
sdbrandon sdbrandon is offline
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Originally Posted by twhit1 View Post
Given that the 35d is as cheap or cheaper than the 35i, this analysis is mute. Thank you $4,500 eco-credit and $900 government tax credit. Assuming diesel doesn't cost you 30% more than premium fuel, you will be saving money every mile you drive.
True,

But don't forget gas models can be had at invoice too. Sometimes even more. It is all relative. And gas models are in stock.

For me, the cost savings is not enough to gain a little low end torque and lose all the mid range power.
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  #9  
Old 05-03-2010, 03:49 PM
twhit1 twhit1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdbrandon View Post
True,

But don't forget gas models can be had at invoice too. Sometimes even more. It is all relative. And gas models are in stock.

For me, the cost savings is not enough to gain a little low end torque and lose all the mid range power.
Net, net with the Eco-credit, you should be able to purchase a 35d for less than a 35i period (you can also negotiate the 35d off invoice too). Have you driven the 35d? In my opinion, the diesel has made the gas 6 cylinder irrelevant. I think the real choice is between the 8 cylinder or the diesel. If you want super speed, get the 50i. If not, get the diesel.
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  #10  
Old 05-03-2010, 03:56 PM
2011x5d 2011x5d is offline
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Thanks for the replies.

I'm buying the car and the cost for the 35d(MSPR 63,125) is almost the same as the 35i(MSPR 61,875). The 35d has the eco credit and the 35i has the spring drive credit. The car is going to have less than 8K miles/yr so you may not even consider the fuel cost difference.

Fun to drive, reliability, and long term maintenance are the things more improtant to me.
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  #11  
Old 05-03-2010, 04:00 PM
twhit1 twhit1 is offline
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Originally Posted by 2011x5d View Post
Thanks for the replies.

I'm buying the car and the cost for the 35d(MSPR 63,125) is almost the same as the 35i(MSPR 61,875). The 35d has the eco credit and the 35i has the spring drive credit. The car is going to have less than 8K miles/yr so you may not even consider the fuel cost difference.

Fun to drive, reliability, and long term maintenance are the things more improtant to me.
Two of your three attributes that you look for in a car are clearly diesel advantages, not gas (reliability and long term maintenance). I would also argue that the 35d is as fun to drive as the 35i.
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  #12  
Old 05-03-2010, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twhit1 View Post
...like a rocket.
Quite imaginative! But unfortunately it's not the case, I test drove both the diesel and the gas six cylinder, and find the gas version pull off the line much smoother and respond quicker. Also I want a lux suv that's quiet and not tick tick tick, that drove me completely nuts. I drive mostly in the city so the gas version is the better choice.
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  #13  
Old 05-03-2010, 06:48 PM
XXX555 XXX555 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 0428 View Post
Quite imaginative! But unfortunately it's not the case, I test drove both the diesel and the gas six cylinder, and find the gas version pull off the line much smoother and respond quicker. Also I want a lux suv that's quiet and not tick tick tick, that drove me completely nuts. I drive mostly in the city so the gas version is the better choice.
I'd check under your X5d tester and pay off any past due debts because my X5d does not go tick, tick,tick...

To the original poster, as I said before, drive both and pick what you like. If this is the worst problem you have then god bless.
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  #14  
Old 05-03-2010, 06:56 PM
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Let me just add that I tested the 2010 with the older six, to me even that drives better than the diesel. So you can imagine the 2011 with the twin turbo. BMW says it performs just as well as the outgoing 4.8, so essentially you are paying six cylinder prices for 8 cylinder performance. A no brainer right there.
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  #15  
Old 05-03-2010, 07:01 PM
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0428 0428 is offline
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Originally Posted by XXX555 View Post
I'd check under your X5d tester and pay off any past due debts because my X5d does not go tick, tick,tick...

To the original poster, as I said before, drive both and pick what you like. If this is the worst problem you have then god bless.
pull up next to a gas x5 and you tell me you don't hear a difference, lol, even my wife who couldn't tell the difference between a first gen vs a second gen told me she doesn't like the loud sound coming from the front. She doesn't even know what a diesel was!
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  #16  
Old 05-03-2010, 07:47 PM
waxking1 waxking1 is offline
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I have a 35D but think I would rather have the new gas model with the 8 speed. Its quicker and gets decent mileage. You won't have to worry with DEF and you won't have to look for diesel stations. I've stopped at a few stations where the diesel nozzle wouldn't even fit the tank. Also the noise of a diesel may bother some, although when I use BP diesel the noise is almost a non factor. The only time I ever notice is outside the vehicle.

Having said all that, I have grown to like the diesel powerband and I'm sure it will get better mileage than the gas version. My wife only gets about 20 mpg around town, but she got less than 14 mpg in our old GL450. I can squeeze out two or three more mpg when I'm driving, but I tend to make a game out of getting good mileage. My mileage figures come from the BMW computer only, I've never actually checked to confirm accuracy.

And what about BP(they make the best diesel that I've found, Exxon is the worst). Will they even be in business in the USA a year from now?
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  #17  
Old 05-03-2010, 07:50 PM
swajames swajames is offline
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Originally Posted by twhit1 View Post
Given that the 35d is as cheap or cheaper than the 35i, this analysis is mute. Thank you $4,500 eco-credit and $900 government tax credit. Assuming diesel doesn't cost you 30% more than premium fuel, you will be saving money every mile you drive.
The eco-credit may be no more... BMW has already updated the 335d finance content on their website, there is no eco-credit but they now offer better finance rates. The X5 35d web page still shows the credit, but has it expiring as of 5/2 - as did the 335d credit before the latest updates... It may be that BMW has yet to update the web page for the X5...
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Last edited by swajames; 05-03-2010 at 07:59 PM.
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  #18  
Old 05-03-2010, 08:26 PM
twhit1 twhit1 is offline
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Originally Posted by 0428 View Post
Let me just add that I tested the 2010 with the older six, to me even that drives better than the diesel. So you can imagine the 2011 with the twin turbo. BMW says it performs just as well as the outgoing 4.8, so essentially you are paying six cylinder prices for 8 cylinder performance. A no brainer right there.
Am I missing something here? 6.9 (35d) vs. 6.4 (35i) is not a noticeable difference in real world driving. What is absolutely noticeable is the gas mileage delta. Getting 30mpg on the highway will never get old. Lets be clear, gas will get back to $4 to $5 gallon sooner rather than later.

I own both a 35d and a 335xi coupe. Both engines are great, don't get me wrong. However, if you want a sports car, buy a 335i coupe. If you want a SUV/Truck, diesel engines make more sense. The performance difference between the 35d and the 35i is minimal while getting significantly better mileage.
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  #19  
Old 05-03-2010, 08:34 PM
twhit1 twhit1 is offline
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Originally Posted by swajames View Post
The eco-credit may be no more... BMW has already updated the 335d finance content on their website, there is no eco-credit but they now offer better finance rates. The X5 35d web page still shows the credit, but has it expiring as of 5/2 - as did the 335d credit before the latest updates... It may be that BMW has yet to update the web page for the X5...
Interesting. Perhaps the waiting list for the diesel was an indication that the deal was too good. It was very unlike BMW to offer $$ on the hood of the car in such an overt way. Thats what you would expect F/GM/Chrysler to do, but not a German OEM.
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  #20  
Old 05-04-2010, 07:09 AM
fonger fonger is offline
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Eco Credit

Look like the eco credit for the X5d is no more, it's no longer show up under the 'Special Offer' page for the X5d: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ialOffers.aspx
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  #21  
Old 05-04-2010, 07:59 AM
Penguin Penguin is offline
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Look like the eco credit for the X5d is no more, it's no longer show up under the 'Special Offer' page for the X5d: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ialOffers.aspx
I myself was surprised when they extended it to 2011 MY orders.

With the eco-credit, X5 Diesel vs. gasoline was, for me, pretty much a no-brainer... lower initial acquisition cost, better mileage, better performance, longer range -- why pay more for less performance with worse mpg? But take away the eco-credit, then add-in the improved gasoline engine, and it becomes a 50/50 proposition, IMHO.
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  #22  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:37 AM
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hsindogg hsindogg is offline
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Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
I myself was surprised when they extended it to 2011 MY orders.

With the eco-credit, X5 Diesel vs. gasoline was, for me, pretty much a no-brainer... lower initial acquisition cost, better mileage, better performance, longer range -- why pay more for less performance with worse mpg? But take away the eco-credit, then add-in the improved gasoline engine, and it becomes a 50/50 proposition, IMHO.
Same reasoning I had, except I also extended it deciding between the MDX Advanced, and a loaded Enclave CLX2.

Spend about $6K more for a BMW with similar options (after the eco/tax credits at invoice pricing + $500) and get better gas mileage, and a less polluting car.

It was simply a no-brainer for me.
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  #23  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Penguin View Post
I myself was surprised when they extended it to 2011 MY orders.

With the eco-credit, X5 Diesel vs. gasoline was, for me, pretty much a no-brainer... lower initial acquisition cost, better mileage, better performance, longer range -- why pay more for less performance with worse mpg? But take away the eco-credit, then add-in the improved gasoline engine, and it becomes a 50/50 proposition, IMHO.
We don't have the eco-credit here in Canada and the 35i is about $3k less than an identically equipped 35d. I still went and ordered a diesel because:
1. diesel is cheaper than premium fuel here
2. re-sale value on a diesel up here is always better
3. Better fuel economy by a slim margin (probably more in real-world driving)

If premium gas cost as much as diesel, I would have gotten the 35i because I wouldn't have to worry about DEF fluid. I did test drive both and the 35i was a little smoother and exhibited no discernible turbo lag but neither car had more than 100 km on them so they were not at all broken in. I could have chipped my teeth several times on the steering wheel due to how touchy the brakes were
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  #24  
Old 05-05-2010, 08:36 AM
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AzNMpower32 AzNMpower32 is offline
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The diesel is the better, more well-rounded powertrain, without a question.

As for numbers and costs, it depends. Here in Virginia, diesel is noticeably cheaper than premium fuel and on par with mid-grade petrol, so therefore diesel running costs are lower.

(Off-topic, but can someone tell me why E85 is ridiculously cheap when it's a pretty bad idea in the first place?)
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  #25  
Old 05-05-2010, 08:49 AM
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0428 0428 is offline
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The diesel is the better, more well-rounded powertrain, without a question.
only an opinion.......... gas engine is better.
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