X5 35d vs 35i

Originally Posted by AzNMpower32

(Off-topic, but can someone tell me why E85 is ridiculously cheap when it's a pretty bad idea in the first place?)

I'm fairly certain E85 is subsidized either by state, or the federal government, hence the low cost.

It's not a bad idea...it's just that it will not catch on this decade because of the existing infrastructure.

Originally Posted by 0428

only an opinion.......... gas engine is better.

The rest of the world would disagree with you.

twhit

Eco credit aside, the biggest argument for the diesel is its fuel economy, right?

now take a look at the following:
2010 30i 15 City / 21 Hwy
2011 35d 19 City / 26 Hwy

Since the 2011 35i EPA numbers are not yet published, and BMW said in their official press release that its going to have better numbers than the outgoing 30i, and plus the fact that it has an EIGHT speed transmission with a tall final gear for cruising......... its not far fetched at all to guesstimate the EPA numbers of the 35i will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 City / 24 Hwy......... or slightly higher even if you don't have a dumbbell of a shoe. So the minuscule savings on fuel is not at all that big a factor anymore now, am I right??

I am not bashing the diesel & for my purpose its just not as good a choice as the gas. But you know what? who cares about what I think or what I have to say? After all I am the loner while the "rest of the world" is on your side.

Now, just ask yourself honestly, if BMW takes away the Eco credit and the $1800 tax write off, how many of you will no doubt choose to sign up for the 35i in a heart beat?

Think about it.

Originally Posted by 0428

Let me just add that I tested the 2010 with the older six, to me even that drives better than the diesel. So you can imagine the 2011 with the twin turbo. BMW says it performs just as well as the outgoing 4.8, so essentially you are paying six cylinder prices for 8 cylinder performance. A no brainer right there.

You're serious? Did you really compare them back to back? The outgoing 3.0 was EXTREMELY doggy down low - and posts numbers NOWHERE near the diesel (or the 35i either).

I suggest you drive the 35i - that engine behaves very similarly to the diesel - lots of low down torque - the top end power really isn't much different either. And FWIW, BMW compares the 35d to the V8 performance as well.

I highly doubt you're going to see more performance from the 35i and preserve your gas mileage - I can get 27 mpg in my 335i coupe - IF I keep my foot out of it - and I rarely see other 335i owners getting anywhere near that number. City is around 22 - and the 335i weighs significantly less than the X5. I love the 335i engine, the exhaust - but your usuable power band in it without flooring the accelerator is going to be taking advantage of your low end torque - which the diesel has 125 ft/lbs more. Mash the gas from a stop light, and you might see a slight advantage to the 35i - but are you going to mash the gas from every stoplight?

[QUOTE]

Eco credit aside, the biggest argument for the diesel is its fuel economy, right?

now take a look at the following:
2010 30i 15 City / 21 Hwy
2011 35d 19 City / 26 Hwy

Since the 2011 35i EPA numbers are not yet published, and BMW said in their official press release that its going to have better numbers than the outgoing 30i, and plus the fact that it has an EIGHT speed transmission with a tall final gear for cruising......... its not far fetched at all to guesstimate the EPA numbers of the 35i will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 City / 24 Hwy......... or slightly higher even if you don't have a dumbbell of a shoe. So the minuscule savings on fuel is not at all that big a factor anymore now, am I right??
QUOTE]

I think those numbers are a little optimistic. Coming from a 335i (which weighs a MORE than grand less - about 1300-1400 pounds, actually) - I'm lucky to get 26-27 with my foot out of it, with a manual transmission. City is about 22, depending on whether the AC is on or not. If the AC is on, it's more like 20-21.

In addition to the MPG debate, I would also argue 20% less CO2 emissions. That's significant over the life of a vehicle.

I'm by no means a "green" fanatic, but I try and do my part. And to be honest, I had no idea what I do now about modern diesel cars a few weeks ago when shopping for a SUV. Knowing more about modern diesel engines, and testing driving the 35d and experiencing the torque...I'm definitely going to be looking for diesel vehicles in the future (caveat - after I take delivery of the 2011 35d and all goes well *knocks on engineered wood in my office*)

Having a Camry Hybrid for 3 years now, going for a full petro oil engine just seems so "stone age" when there are very viable and comparable options. I will be looking forward to the day someone comes out with a diesel/hybrid vehicle.

I've figured buying and leasing both the 35i and the 35d, but it's a straight up toss up when it comes to leasing, especially since BMW disallows you to build the gas version exactly the way you want it. In my instance, I would spend more for the X5 Sport Activity, when I can get a sport package on the 35d without having to pay extra for other options. Buy the X5 premium, and I am still left with options I don't want to order - and I can't get the sport package. Go for the base model, and you aren't even allowed to get Comfort Access or Leather. WTF? In a vehicle model with an MSRP of almost 50K, you can't add LEATHER, or a myriad of other options, without spending more? You can do that in a 1 series or 3 series all day long for MUCH less

The thing that annoys me about the 35d is that the rest of the world is getting a newer replacement, the 40d which is probably THE choice drivetrain for the facelifted X5. Since BMW just certified the old 35d, they see no point in re-certifying a new diesel just 2 years after launch in the NA market. So just the idea of "everyone else is getting something new" would bug me, but not to the point where I'd consider the petrols.

With a petrol, you have to be trying pretty hard to get anything above EPA estimates. But for the sake of comparision, let's look at the European combined cycle stats:

xDrive35i: 13,8 l/100km urban, 10,1 combined............236 g CO²/km
xDrive40d: 10,5 l/100km urban, 7,5 combined...........198 g CO²/km

For non-metric folk, the combined figures are 23,2 US mpg versus 31,3 US mpg. Even allowing for the fact that the older 35d is slightly thirstier, I'd say there's a substantial difference. Plus, the emissions are lower for the diesel than the petrol anyway.

Originally Posted by 0428

Eco credit aside, the biggest argument for the diesel is its fuel economy, right?

No, I got mine as it was better performing than the gasoline six cylinder. If the diesel had performed the same or worse than the gasoline six, I would not have purchased it, in spite of it's superior mpg.

Now that they have improved the gasoline six performance, I would have to compare again if I were making a new purchase decision. I would guess a 50/50 chance of me choosing diesel over the new gasoline six if the eco-credit and tax incentive were gone. But again, I'd have to compare the performance.

Originally Posted by AzNMpower32

The thing that annoys me about the 35d is that the rest of the world is getting a newer replacement, the 40d which is probably THE choice drivetrain for the facelifted X5. Since BMW just certified the old 35d, they see no point in re-certifying a new diesel just 2 years after launch in the NA market. So just the idea of "everyone else is getting something new" would bug me, but not to the point where I'd consider the petrols.

With a petrol, you have to be trying pretty hard to get anything above EPA estimates. But for the sake of comparision, let's look at the European combined cycle stats:

xDrive35i: 13,8 l/100km urban, 10,1 combined............236 g CO²/km
xDrive40d: 10,5 l/100km urban, 7,5 combined...........198 g CO²/km

For non-metric folk, the combined figures are 23,2 US mpg versus 31,3 US mpg. Even allowing for the fact that the older 35d is slightly thirstier, I'd say there's a substantial difference. Plus, the emissions are lower for the diesel than the petrol anyway.

Perhaps BMW delays some new tech here as it has something to do with US being litigious whiners.

Originally Posted by XXX555

Perhaps BMW delays some new tech here as it has something to do with US being litigious whiners.

Could be. In the U.S. if they screw-up something, they are much more likely to be forced to "put it right" than in a lot of other countries, considering all the "Lemon Laws" and such. In some other countries they are much more likely to get away with telling customers to go pound sand if there is a design flaw.

Originally Posted by 335i

I've figured buying and leasing both the 35i and the 35d, but it's a straight up toss up when it comes to leasing, especially since BMW disallows you to build the gas version exactly the way you want it.

Your dealer is messing with you right there. I ordered my 35i Sport exactly to my likings, all the options that I wanted and nothing more.

What's going to get me excited is when they come out with the X5 Electric Hybrid, 40+ mpg on the highway. Keep working on that BMW!

Originally Posted by Penguin

Could be. In the U.S. if they screw-up something, they are much more likely to be forced to "put it right" than in a lot of other countries, considering all the "Lemon Laws" and such. In some other countries they are much more likely to get away with telling customers to go pound sand if there is a design flaw.

True, but I still maintain the cost of recertifying would be prohibitive. Plus, it would probably not be 50-state legal like the current BluePerformance system that's unique to our market. Y'all can thank California for that. (I don't really consider Cali as part of the country, but that's another matter )

Hey don't knock Cali! I'm dreaming of driving the 35d from Monterrey down to Big Sur, then back up to Napa...I did that 2 years ago........in a Prius.

Just test drove the 35i and make my decision right away. I will wait my 35d!!

I drove about 5 miles on 405 N and 3 miles local. The 35i has NO way to compare with the 35d as for the fun to drive & fuel economy. The picture shows you the black carbon accumulation on the left exhaust pipe even at 16 miles on the odometer (had 8 miles on it before I took the test drive) and got 12.8 mpg read from the dash computer.

Low speed acceleration better than 30i but no comparison with the 35d. Could not tell the big difference on the 8 speed transmission over 6 speed. Highway speed at 65 - 75m/h, 35d got much better response from the pedal.

If you're on the market of X5 6 cylinder, 35d is your ONLY choice!!

Originally Posted by 0428

Your dealer is messing with you right there. I ordered my 35i Sport exactly to my likings, all the options that I wanted and nothing more.

What's going to get me excited is when they come out with the X5 Electric Hybrid, 40+ mpg on the highway. Keep working on that BMW!

Dealer isn't messing with me - try and configure a base 35i with leather or Comfort Access. You can't do it. You have to upgrade to the 35i Premium. Then, you can have leather and Comfort Access - and you'll get the best MF - but if you go with the Sport Activity package, you get a different MF/residual than the 35i premium.

There's a $5K difference in the base and premium 35i - and the only difference I can see is that leather is included in the premium, along with different wheels - but you are still required to get the convenience package to complete the true BMW "premium" package, (BMW assist, auto dimming mirrors, etc). On the 35d, the premium pkg is $3400. Net difference of $350, in favor of the 35i. This is also before the eco-credit of $4500. I don't see how the 35i is significantly cheaper than the 35d.

I can order a 35d any way I like. If I want just comfort access and the sport package for the seats, wheels, and steering wheel, I can - and my residual doesn't get worse upgrading from the 35i premium. No need to change the model and residual.

Originally Posted by 335i

Dealer isn't messing with me - try and configure a base 35i with leather or Comfort Access. You can't do it. You have to upgrade to the 35i Premium. Then, you can have leather and Comfort Access - and you'll get the best MF - but if you go with the Sport Activity package, you get a different MF/residual than the 35i premium.

There's a $5K difference in the base and premium 35i - and the only difference I can see is that leather is included in the premium, along with different wheels - but you are still required to get the convenience package to complete the true BMW "premium" package, (BMW assist, auto dimming mirrors, etc). On the 35d, the premium pkg is $3400. Net difference of $350, in favor of the 35i. This is also before the eco-credit of $4500. I don't see how the 35i is significantly cheaper than the 35d.

I can order a 35d any way I like. If I want just comfort access and the sport package for the seats, wheels, and steering wheel, I can - and my residual doesn't get worse upgrading from the 35i premium. No need to change the model and residual.

I think its impossible to discuss saving money when referring to purchasing a brand new vehicle, its an oxymoron, when you consider the depreciation rolling off the lot, NEW car purchase is the absolute worst investment(not really an investment) one can make, that being said if your buying a luxury car and are really trying to get the best bang for your buck, your always going to get the best deal on a 1.)A car already on the lot and 2.) A CPO or DEMO vehicle bottom line, those are the models that are going to be most haggle friendly, let the dummies buy brand new get something with a few miles and save yourself between 10K and 15K right off the top!!!

Originally Posted by 335i

Dealer isn't messing with me - try and configure a base 35i with leather or Comfort Access. You can't do it. You have to upgrade to the 35i Premium. Then, you can have leather and Comfort Access - and you'll get the best MF - but if you go with the Sport Activity package, you get a different MF/residual than the 35i premium.

There's a $5K difference in the base and premium 35i - and the only difference I can see is that leather is included in the premium, along with different wheels - but you are still required to get the convenience package to complete the true BMW "premium" package, (BMW assist, auto dimming mirrors, etc). On the 35d, the premium pkg is $3400. Net difference of $350, in favor of the 35i. This is also before the eco-credit of $4500. I don't see how the 35i is significantly cheaper than the 35d.

I can order a 35d any way I like. If I want just comfort access and the sport package for the seats, wheels, and steering wheel, I can - and my residual doesn't get worse upgrading from the 35i premium. No need to change the model and residual.

You are right - and that was a factor in my decision to go with the 35d instead of the 35i.

Originally Posted by ftgambit

I think its impossible to discuss saving money when referring to purchasing a brand new vehicle, its an oxymoron, when you consider the depreciation rolling off the lot, NEW car purchase is the absolute worst investment(not really an investment) one can make, that being said if your buying a luxury car and are really trying to get the best bang for your buck, your always going to get the best deal on a 1.)A car already on the lot and 2.) A CPO or DEMO vehicle bottom line, those are the models that are going to be most haggle friendly, let the dummies buy brand new get something with a few miles and save yourself between 10K and 15K right off the top!!!

Life is too short to be cheap.

I am as (or more) frugal than the next guy but I get a rise researching/shopping/dealing for a new car/truck and driving it off the lot. Like most of the folks here, I sacrificed and work very hard and its my gift to share with family/friends. Useful/necessary, safe, entertaining...

Saving 8-10K off list price feels good enough with no regrets and I never have to second guess or feel cheap buying someone else's used 'problem' or less than babied demo. I would ride a bicycle/walk and pass on any vehicle to pay for my family's health, home or education but as long as I can afford it, I'll continue to get my best deal on a NEW car every five years or so .

Originally Posted by XXX555

Life is too short to be cheap.

I am as (or more) frugal than the next guy but I get a rise researching/shopping/dealing for a new car/truck and driving it off the lot. Like most of the folks here, I sacrificed and work very hard and its my gift to share with family/friends. Useful/necessary, safe, entertaining...

Saving 8-10K off list price feels good enough with no regrets and I never have to second guess or feel cheap buying someone else's used 'problem' or less than babied demo. I would ride a bicycle/walk and pass on any vehicle to pay for my family's health, home or education but as long as I can afford it, I'll continue to get my best deal on a NEW car every five years or so .

I agree cars have a definative life span. If you are only going to own for two years the depreciation on a new car is a killer, however in the end it all averages out.

Originally Posted by ftgambit

I think its impossible to discuss saving money when referring to purchasing a brand new vehicle, its an oxymoron, when you consider the depreciation rolling off the lot, NEW car purchase is the absolute worst investment(not really an investment) one can make, that being said if your buying a luxury car and are really trying to get the best bang for your buck, your always going to get the best deal on a 1.)A car already on the lot and 2.) A CPO or DEMO vehicle bottom line, those are the models that are going to be most haggle friendly, let the dummies buy brand new get something with a few miles and save yourself between 10K and 15K right off the top!!!

When I spend money on a luxury vehicle, I want it exactly how I can have it built. I don't have to settle at all on something off of the lot. These aren't run of the mill Acura TL's, where the only thing that changes is the paint color - so each vehicle is usually very different in terms of options. I guess I'm picky about my car, and I don't usually settle very easily.

I disagree that you'll get the best deal on something on the lot (brand new). You very well might in some instances. But more often than not, with several local dealers, I've found I can get a better deal negotiating on an allocation with out of state dealers at $XXX over invoice, which is usually better than what they have on the lot to sell - and you get to pick out everything on the vehicle. That's mainly why I have a hard time picking up something used - it's never exactly what I want. I don't consider it an investment by any means - it's just what I spend my allowance on

I ordered a X5 35d BRAND NEW for less than what you can pick up a used '10 at. Unique scenario with the $4500 eco credit. It's not impossible to discuss saving money on a new vehicle - some folks will pay full price on everything they buy - from electronics, cars, etc. I just choose to make my dollar go a little further on the things I want. And I look for the best deal I can, no matter if I'm buying new camera gear, a new laptop, new hard drives, etc. Most folks wouldn't consider any of those an investment, but it's all how you look at things. Monetarily, no - they aren't going to increase in value. But I find other value in those things - As a photographer, good camera gear is worth its weight in gold to me, as is a reliable hard drive, and a laptop that saves me time processing images. For a vehicle, it's not a monetary investment - but I'm happy with it's performance, the way it looks, and its functionality. I know I could find another vehicle that gets me from point A to point B for less money - but life is short. And it makes me happy. So I'm investing in happiness

Originally Posted by 2011x5d

Just test drove the 35i and make my decision right away. I will wait my 35d!!
...
If you're on the market of X5 6 cylinder, 35d is your ONLY choice!!

Thanks for the report. I am in the same dilemma as you are. My 35d is 'awaiting release to carrier' since Apr 15. My dealer has a 35i in his lot. The highway mileage rating of 25 on the new 35i is tempting. So is the 0-60 time, and the new wheels that comes with the 35i premium package that is not offered on the diesel and the 8 speed tranny which would make the 35d much better and widen the mpg gap.

Btw, when you drove the diesel, was it broken in? Did you check the MPG reading from the computer under similar driving conditions? I plan to drive both the vehicles at the same time and make my choice. If 35d had the 8 speed and same set of 19" wheels as the 35ip, my choice would have been made. BMW, why do you do this to us?

Originally Posted by travel4B

You are right - and that was a factor in my decision to go with the 35d instead of the 35i.

Yep - $350 difference BEFORE the $4500 eco credit - and better performance, mpg, etc.

Originally Posted by wannabebimmer

Thanks for the report. I am in the same dilemma as you are. My 35d is 'awaiting release to carrier' since Apr 15. My dealer has a 35i in his lot. The highway mileage rating of 25 on the new 35i is tempting. So is the 0-60 time, and the new wheels that comes with the 35i premium package that is not offered on the diesel and the 8 speed tranny which would make the 35d much better and widen the mpg gap.

Btw, when you drove the diesel, was it broken in? Did you check the MPG reading from the computer under similar driving conditions? I plan to drive both the vehicles at the same time and make my choice. If 35d had the 8 speed and same set of 19" wheels as the 35ip, my choice would have been made. BMW, why do you do this to us?

0-60 time looks good on paper (truly, though - it's like .5 seconds), but when I drove both, I drove real world traffic, and was more impressed with the diesel and its ability to get up and go while at speed. With the 35i, I felt like I needed to get a bit of a running start. If your life happens a quarter mile at a time.. then the 35i will perform a little bit better but from a roll, or going up and down hills/mountains, the 35d felt WAY beefier. If I need a racecar, I've got a 335i

Originally Posted by 2011x5d

Ordered 35d on April 15 and was told it would be available on mid May. Got a call from dealer today and told me the car won't be ready until the first week of June. However, the 35i is sitting on their lot and give me the option to switch to 35i. I know the 35i got more powerful engine and a new 8 speed transmission which gives the 35i better 0-60 performance over 35d and very close gas/mileage.

The car I ordered has identical options as the 35i on their lot. My question is should I switch to the 35i or wait my 35d?

If they discount the 35i enough take that one.
A new 35d should also have the 8 speed box, they do over here, so they must be running out "Old stock" of tranny's to you guys. Check the Torque figures, diesel to Gas, and you'll know why the Diesel is the right choice when ordering a car.

your reason for wanting a discount would be that the 35d will use less fuel, go further on a tank, and has more torgue, and will require less service visits, and is the fuel of the future.
so if the dealer wants to sell his lot car, he should discount it. remember, it's costing him money sat there, he has already paid for it.

The V8 will sound great !!!