How to CHOOSE the right oil for you for your E39

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

Yes, if you are looking for a definitive answer.

Again, I'm totally unsure where you're going with this. Sorry.

To be clear, we have a reasonably definitive answer for what it means to the OP when he reads "Use Castrol" on the oil filler cap.

And, we have three reasonably definitive answers (depending on what 'religion' you subscribe to) to what oil you'd use.

1. If you're in the first camp - you'd use only what BMW says to use.
2. If you're in the second camp - you'd use that - or anything you deem reasonably equivalent.
3. If you're in the third camp - you'd use all of the above - plus many others that are of reasonable quality based on well known and well used and well published standards.

So, from a 'definitive' standpoint, I think if someone asked me "what oil would I use", I'd have absolutely no problem.

The problem comes with someone asking me what oil YOU would use; or what oil "MatWiz" would use; or what oil "Doru" would use; or what oil cn90 would use (actually I know exactly what oil cn90 would use because he thinks like I do).

My point is you just can not answer that question until you know what religious punch the user wishes to subscribe to. Once you know that, it's easy to tell them which oil fits the criteria.

If that's what you mean by "definitive", well then, it's definitive as lone as you define the religious camp the "questioner" wants to live in.

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

The only way to it is to drop your often repeated "dogma" term and start looking at this by DOCTRINE.

Well, we 'did' ask in the thread what to call it, whether it be 'camp' or 'dogma' or 'doctrine' or 'religion' or whatever. The camps will be the same no matter 'what' you call them (a rose is a rose ... ).

Call them categories. Call them thought models. Call them mind sets.

You can call it whatever you like. I use all those terms interchangeably.

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

The first information comes from the builder of the engine, they made it, and they should have a very good idea of what is required to ensure reliability and longevity

Ummm.. this is the same "builder of the car" who specified plastic DISA valves, plastic pulleys, a plastic cooling system, buton VANOS seals, recycled rubber window molding, idiotic FSUs, leaky thrust-arm bushings, ridiculous window regulators, asinine cluster & MID pixel tape, brittle PBT plastic headlight adjusters, poorly tack welded ABS control module steel wires, weak vapor barrier adhesive, 20K mile shocks, too-short wiring looms, fragile steering wheel & seat controllers, etc. (all that just from memory).

BMW gets no credit for engineering on any of those issues. But, what's your point?

1. Everyone in the 1st 'mind set' agrees with the BMW-approved list.
2. Everyone in the 2nd 'mind set' agrees with the BMW-approved list.
3. Everyone in the 3rd 'mind set' agrees with the BMW-approved list.

I don't see a single person 'disagreeing' with the BMW-approved list of motor oils to use in the E39.

What I see, at both ends, is people in the first list disagreeing with everyone else - and people in the last list agreeing with everyone.

You just happen to (probably) be in the first list. That's all. It's pre-ordained, based on which list you're already in, by your very nature. And that's OK.

Since I'm in the third category, I think everyone is right. And that's OK.

The problem isn't you or me. We're set for life. (And that's OK.) Neither one of us is going to have an engine failure because of what oil we used. Never ever ever. It just isn't going to happen.

The problem is the confusion of the NEWBIE who asks "what oil?" and then gets lists of oils in the three different categories and then, confusingly to him, all the arguments in between (almost exclusively from those in the first category denouncing all the other thought models).

Nobody in the third category is doing the argument. I doubt anyone in the second category is either (all they do is select oils).

All the argument comes from those in the first category ... which is hilarious ... when you think of it ... 'cuz ... for them ... the decision is so very simple!

This is a philosophical discussion (not a technical one) that has far reaching social implications.

Here's my new epiphany:
- Those in the first 'mind set' argue AGAINST all other mind sets.
- Those in the second 'mind set' don't disagree; but they find additional oils meeting the same criteria.
- Likewise, those in the third 'mind set' agree with everyone above & choose their own oils based on standard criteria.

The epiphany is that almost all the argument seems to be coming from those in the first philosophical category who, it seems, just can't stand the mind set of the other two philosophies.

That, it appears (to me, just now), is the fundamental reason for the 'endless oil' arguments!

The only way for the arguments to end is for the first mind set to destroy the other two mind sets (which isn't going to happen); so the first mind set will propagate the argument forever. The other two mind sets aren't doing the endless arguing.

This, I think, may be a fundamental philosophical insight.

Agree? Disagree? Add value?

There is a big difference between Doctrine and Dogma. You may wish to google each individually to see the difference in definitions. I try to make my choices on vehicle maintenance based on Doctrine, not Dogma. Thus, I avoid the philisophical , and stay technical.

Regardless of BMWs shortcomings with the many systems on the car, they know considerably more about the engine and its requirements than you, I or anyone else is likely to ever know....that is a fact. They have also taken into consideration many factors that we may not have ever even thought of.

I must apologize for the tone of my prior couple of posts. I'm just sick and tired of the 'what oil' discussion. I'm OK with the 'what philosophy' discussion; but there is nobody on the planet who can MOVE anyone from one mind set to the other. It just won't (realistically) happen anymore than I can talk a Jew into being a Christian or a Muslim.

It's my opinion, after reading hundreds of 'what oil' threads, that the oil people choose has more to do with the way their brain is wired than anything we will ever say in these forums.

And, what oil they use can be predicted with almost 100% certainty (within a range of equivalents, of course) if you know what 'mind set' the person belongs to.

• BMW-approved oils only
• BMW-approved oils and similar oils only
  
• BMW-approved oils and similar oils and quality oils only

So, it just irked me that anyone would even think to try to move me out of my 'mind set' with ANY argument, let alone the argument that the pope knows best (it's just not going to happen and my car isn't going to blow up either because of it).

So, I apologize for my tone. Knowing all that I know now, I absolutely refuse to get into a 'what oil' discussion (other than to point people to the mind-set descriptions to let them choose their own religion).

Anyway, as a courtesy, I will address your points directly.

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

There is a big difference between Doctrine and Dogma.

As I said, the oil mind sets can be called whatever anyone wants to call them (they would still be the same). I used 'em interchangeably as I'm rather secular. It really doesn't matter to me what the 'camps' are called.

But, for the record, here is a google result of the doctrine vs dogma:
- Doctrine: What the church believes is truth;
- Dogma: What the church proposes as truth.

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

I try to make my choices on vehicle maintenance based on Doctrine, not Dogma.

I guess, converting this to BMW, that makes sense from 'your' standpoint:
- Doctrine: What BMW (the pope) believes is truth;
- Dogma: What BMW (the pope) proposes as truth.

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

Thus, I avoid the philisophical , and stay technical.

Ah, you're missing the point. Either that, or you're arguing with the absolutely wrong person. Because I refuse to get into a 'what oil' argument now that I've researched this and tried to boil down hundreds of 'what oil' threads into a cohesive 'what oil' thread (I'm no longer the same idealist that started this thread).

When I started this holy quest for the right way to choose oil for your BMW, I was wholly unaware that the result would be impossible because of differences in the people's inherent belief systems.

• Jew
• Christian
• Muslim

You can argue all the technical dogma/doctrine you want but you're never going to convert a Muslim into a Jew (at least not realistically). That's precisely why there is so much "which oil" argument here! People don't realize this is a dogmatic discussion! It can never end.

All I will say from now on is that the belief systems exist. And I'll characterize them, but not the oil to use because that easily falls out of the belief system itself:

• BMW-approved oils only
• BMW-approved oils and similar oils only
  
• BMW-approved oils and similar oils and quality oils only

The reason for the endless 'what oil' discussions is that people are wired for different decisions when the end result really doesn't matter. If, for example, people were putting in Marvel Mystery Oil into their oil, no matter what they believed as truth, the real truth would end up with a ruined engine.

They'd learn the real truth, the hard way.

But, as with all religious arguments, there IS NO REAL TRUTH when it comes to what oil is best for your BMW! (You 'think' you know the truth; but so does everyone else. And you don't agree. And, it doesn't matter because nobody is putting Marvel Mystery Oil in there. They're all putting decent oil in their engine.)

Do you see what I'm saying? The whole problem is that the philosophies (or mind sets or religions, or whatever you want to call the wiring in people's brain) falls into THREE categories:

a) Those who use what BMW says to use
b) Those who use that plus what seems similar
c) Those who use those two plus whatever else works just as well

After all this research, my only role on bimmerfest, from now 'till the day I die, is to advise people of those three 'mind sets'.

You don't get to choose your mind set anymore than you chose your religion (for the most part, it is foisted upon you by your belief system).

So, if you're of the first mindset, then 'you know' exactly what oils to use; and if you're in the second mindset, then you know exactly what oils to use plus you'll find equivalent oils; and if you're in the third mindset, you'll have all of those oils plus anything else that works to use.

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

they know considerably more about the engine and its requirements than you, I or anyone else is likely to ever know....that is a fact.

It is.

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

They have also taken into consideration many factors that we may not have ever even thought of.

You believe in the infallibility of the BMW god. And that's OK. I don't. And that's OK.

Just like religion, the real proof is that nobody is dying because of which religion they chose (yeah yeah, I know, they're being KILLED by each other but that's not what I mean).

It turns out cn90 and I are not ruining out engines by using the oil that we chose to put in there, the fact that BMW knows engines notwithstanding.

If I chose to be a Christian or a Jew, the 'real' God wouldn't be sending lightning bolts down on me any more than the God of Engines will destroy my engine because I just today put Mobil1 5W30 from Costco.

So, the whole point of arguing oils (just like arguing religions) is pointless.

Let the people choose their own religion and let them choose their own oil. It won't make a difference either way.

Nobody's engine is blowing up either way.

WELL SAID.

For the record, in response to a 'what brand of oil' question over here:
- E46 (1999 - 2006) > First Oil change (brand of OIL)

One reply was:

The main point is we analyzed why so many people ask the same question, and, why, at the same time, there was no easy agreement like there is on other issues.

We found out, collectively, that it's a dogmatic issue - and therefore - like religion - has no true right or wrong answer - while - at the same time - has a right answer for everyone (which depends on the doctrine they wish to believe in).

We also looked far and wide to find to find evidence of engines 'ruined' by conscientious use of non-BMW-approved quality oils (e.g., Mobil1 10W40) ... and found nothing to support the oft-stated claims.

In addition, we looked at 'similar' engines - and again - found nothing to substantiate sole use of any one of the three doctrines.

Like religions, they all serve the same purpose to the same end.

The beauty of this analysis was that we simplified the results so that there was no disagreement - among similar doctrines.

If someone asks 'which oil', we merely need to determine 'which doctrine', each of which has their clearly defined favorite oils!

Originally Posted by cn90

Thanks bluebee.

However, I have my own personal thoughts about engine oil. Having had a Honda Civic, Volvo etc. with 300K miles using standard dino oil, I have mixed feeling about synthetic and BMW LL01 oils.
If one has money to buy synthetic, by all means, use synthetic.

I am a "practical" kind of person and am also cost-conscious (I have a tight budget to operate the car) and go for the most bang-for-the bucks and since I live in cold climate:

- WINTER: 5W30 synthetic oil for easier cold start.
Whatever brand I can get for $3.99/qt. Menards hardware store here goes on sales quite often and I can buy synthetic for $3.99/qt.

- SUMMER: 10W30 dino oil for $2/qt.

I change my engine oil every 4-5K.
My daily trip is 12 miles/each way.
At 106K, my engine runs smooth like butter.

BMW "LL" is for marketing purpose of long-life oil change and does not sound very scientific at all. So I don't pay attention to LL01 spec. since I change my oil every 4-5K.

My 0.02...

First, I believe Cn90 knows what he's talking about... and I have read such kinds of posts by many others also. I try to stay within specs, but oils are so hard to find and price through the roof. So, I just use any oil as long as it's "good". Right now I'm using Mobil1 0-20 fully synthetic. I normally use 5-30W Mobil1 fully synthetic, or 5-30W Penzoil full synthetic - I mostly stick with Full Synthetic oill in 5-30W, unless a great deal comes along, like this time 0-20W (which I'll be changing in 2,000 miles). I figures it'll be a good way to wash out the engine (with quick oil change within 2K miles). I've got 140K miles. P.S: I usually change within 5K miles.

Originally Posted by bluebee

If someone asks 'which oil', we merely need to determine 'which doctrine', each of which has their clearly defined favorite oils!

I realized, after handling scores of these 'what oil' threads, that if someone actually asks what oil, they 'probably' (based on anecdotal evidence) want you to give them the BMW-approved list.

The second group never asks, other than to doublecheck their comprehensive calculations.

And the third group can read the 'quality' on the can so they don't ask either.

Originally Posted by Newbie528

I believe Cn90 knows what he's talking about...

Yes. He's pragmatic. Logical. And sane.

Originally Posted by Newbie528

I just use any oil as long as it's "good".

That's logical for the third group of people in this group; yet it's anathema to the other two!
a) Use only bmw-approved oils (based on LL standards)
b) Use only bmw-approved & similar oils (based on LL standards and specs)
c) Use only bmw-approved & similar oils & any other 'good' quality oil (based on LL standards and specs and other well-established standards)

Originally Posted by oilsschmoils

What utter bollocks! There's a specific spec in the owners manual (LL01) and it even mentions the temporary use of ACEA A3,B3 oil (0/5W30 or 0/5W40) when LL01 isn't available. But wait I forgot that BMWNA forgot to put that info into the U.S owners manual, and consequently we have all this confusion, but on U.S BMW forums. BMWNA have a lot to answer for.

That recent post above from this thread below:
- E46 (1999 - 2006) > First Oil change (brand of OIL)

The response:

I think you wholly missed the point!

In doing so, you unwittingly made my main point!

To wit, some clearly have a 'dogmatic' attachment to the BMW LL/ACAE doctrine. Nothing wrong with that.

But, plenty of other people don't have that dogmatic attachment to the BMW doctrine; they don't disagree with BMW's dogmatic selection of motor oils ... they just have other high-quality oils in mind that work just as well for their BMW.

As in most religious fervor, some (apparently) can't comprehend any other opinion than the LL01/ACEA doctrine clearly espoused by BMW.

On the other hand, others fully understand that dogmatic opinion; yet they simply aren't as fundamentalist about it.

That dogmatic disagreement is fundamentally why there is so many inconclusive 'what oil' discussions on the forums!

For further dogmatic details, see:
- Fundamentally, why are there so many 'what oil' threads?

For further technical details, see:
- How to CHOOSE the right oil for you for your BMW

To further fan the flames:

I don't plan to go 15,000 miles between oil changes. Likely will do 5,000 between changes, which is less than I have typically done on my other vehicles (every 10,000 miles with M1 5w-30). If I'm not trying to get "long life" from my oil, how badly does my oil need to meet the LL-01 spec?

Originally Posted by crazy4trains

To further fan the flames:

I don't plan to go 15,000 miles between oil changes. Likely will do 5,000 between changes, which is less than I have typically done on my other vehicles (every 10,000 miles with M1 5w-30). If I'm not trying to get "long life" from my oil, how badly does my oil need to meet the LL-01 spec?

That is part of the debate. No one really knows. Posts have been made that the LL-01 spec covers more than just the oils ability to stay in grade for 15,000 miles. It would appear that many people have gotten away with using non LL-01 oils...so the choice is really yours. I have occasionally strayed from using non LL-01 oils on rare occasions. In fact I have Mobil 1 5w-30 in my car now...but I never go more than 7500 miles.
As much of this thread shows, it is much debated, and "up to what you are comfortable with". BMW is clear on their recommendations...

Since we have many highly knowledgable oil gurus here, I thought I'll ask 2 questions ~

1. I have seen many photos posted here of Mobil1 5-30W. Many people mentioned the Mobil1 5-30W also.... BUT it's not LL-01 approved. There's no LL-01 mentioned on it. The Mobil1 0-40W is LL-01 approved, however. So, why we have so many guys who encourage the "approved" BMW oil, say Mobil1 5-30W is a good choice? (It is however, Corvette recommended, so I guess good enough for BMW too, but not LL-01 mentioned)

2. I have put 0-20W (full synthetic) recently. I know it's not the right voscosity recommended. But I needed to change oil quickly, becuase the old oil was getting dirty. I intend to run this oil for only 2K miles or so. I figured this will also flush the engine, and will go back to 5-30W. Is that bad for the car? (by the way I'm getting better gas milage with it. Getting 23.5 MPG, before 21-22 mpg) I intend to go back to 5-30W, but now not sure if I should use the Mobil1 5-30W (full synthetic, since it's not LL-01 approved). Castrol 5-30W European is hard to find.

What are you views on the metioned concerns?!!! Thanks in advance!

Originally Posted by Newbie528

Since we have many highly knowledgable oil gurus here, I thought I'll ask 2 questions ~

1. I have seen many photos posted here of Mobil1 5-30W. Many people mentioned the Mobil1 5-30W also.... BUT it's not LL-01 approved. There's no LL-01 mentioned on it. The Mobil1 0-40W is LL-01 approved, however. So, why we have so many guys who encourage the "approved" BMW oil, say Mobil1 5-30W is a good choice? (It is however, Corvette recommended, so I guess good enough for BMW too, but not LL-01 mentioned)

2. I have put 0-20W (full synthetic) recently. I know it's not the right voscosity recommended. But I needed to change oil quickly, becuase the old oil was getting dirty. I intend to run this oil for only 2K miles or so. I figured this will also flush the engine, and will go back to 5-30W. Is that bad for the car? (by the way I'm getting better gas milage with it. Getting 23.5 MPG, before 21-22 mpg) I intend to go back to 5-30W, but now not sure if I should use the Mobil1 5-30W (full synthetic, since it's not LL-01 approved). Castrol 5-30W European is hard to find.

What are you views on the metioned concerns?!!! Thanks in advance!

Why do you think 0w-20 will "flush the engine"?....other than a lower viscosity, what properties does it have that would give it the ability to "flush" your engine?

BTW the Castrol product many of us use (me included, most times) is Castrol Syntec 0w-30 European Formula. With rare exception, it can only be found at AutoZone stores.

As far as a general answer to your question...I think we will never know, unless we got into the head of a BMW engineer to understand the reasons for the LL-01 specification, and if we knew the exact technical requirements of the LL-01 spec. Bluebee will tell you it is all about "marketing" and some conspiracy between oil manufacturers and BMW to corner the oil market.

If you are uncomfortable or question your actions, the simplest, and safest answer is to simply follow the manufacturer's recommendations:http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx

If you feel you are smarter than BMW, you may wish to study up a little on oil here:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles

Best wishes

Originally Posted by Newbie528

Since we have many highly knowledgable oil gurus here, I thought I'll ask 2 questions ~

1. I have seen many photos posted here of Mobil1 5-30W. Many people mentioned the Mobil1 5-30W also.... BUT it's not LL-01 approved. There's no LL-01 mentioned on it. The Mobil1 0-40W is LL-01 approved, however. So, why we have so many guys who encourage the "approved" BMW oil, say Mobil1 5-30W is a good choice? (It is however, Corvette recommended, so I guess good enough for BMW too, but not LL-01 mentioned)

2. I have put 0-20W (full synthetic) recently. I know it's not the right viscosity recommended. But I needed to change oil quickly, because the old oil was getting dirty. I intend to run this oil for only 2K miles or so. I figured this will also flush the engine, and will go back to 5-30W. Is that bad for the car? (by the way I'm getting better gas mileage with it. Getting 23.5 MPG, before 21-22 mpg) I intend to go back to 5-30W, but now not sure if I should use the Mobil1 5-30W (full synthetic, since it's not LL-01 approved). Castrol 5-30W European is hard to find.

What are you views on the mentioned concerns?!!! Thanks in advance!

I would use the Castrol 5w-40, or the Mobil 1 5w-40, or Mobil 1 0w-40 before using the Mobil 1 5w-30.

Castrol 0w-30 is close to 0w-40, and is LL01, which is good.
There is NO way I would use a 0w-20 in these cars, no way.
20 weight is no where near the 30 weight you need for your E39.
IMO, 0w-20 is only out there because of the governments BS of trying to run more efficient cars.

Originally Posted by Jason5driver

I would use the Castrol 5w-40 or the Mobil 1 5w-40 before using the Mobil 1 5w-30.

Castrol 0w-30 is close to 0w-40, and is LL01, which is good.
There is NO way I would use a 0w-20 in these cars, no way.
20 weight is no where near the 30 weight you need for your E39.
IMO, 0w-20 is only out there because of the governments BS of trying to run more efficient cars.

Jason, you should definitely read this article by Aehaas on oil and oil viscosity, I think you may have a different opinion about 0w-20 after reading it....I do. I am still unconvinced I will use 0w-20 outside of a manufacturer recommending it, but Aehaas makes a good argument for it: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

Jason, you should definitely read this article by Aehaas on oil and oil viscosity, I think you may have a different opinion about 0w-20 after reading it....I do. I am still unconvinced I will use 0w-20 outside of a manufacturer recommending it, but Aehaas makes a good argument for it: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles

Yes, I know you COULD use the 0w-20 oil, but I would not.

Thanks!
Jason

Originally Posted by Newbie528

Many people mentioned the Mobil1 5-30W also.... BUT it's not LL-01 approved.

This thread is asking for advice on how to choose oil for your BMW.

It's clearly not titled "What oil does BMW tell you to use in your engine?".

For that, you need to read:
- What is the definitive list of BMW-approved motor oils (1)

Originally Posted by Newbie528

why we have so many guys who encourage the "approved" BMW oil, say Mobil1 5-30W is a good choice?

Ummm... because LL01 is just one specification that you can use to select oils, maybe?

Despite what the Germanic M A R K E T I N G team would want you to believe, there 'are' other specifications for motor oil that work perfectly well for similar cars manufactured outside the Bavarian gates.

Originally Posted by Newbie528

I have put 0-20W (full synthetic) recently. I know it's not the right voscosity recommended.

The viscosity isn't really all that important (within reason). Especially for the area that you live in (I live in the same area). We have to have just about the mildest climate on the planet for cold-start temperatures.

Taken slightly out of context, from a BMW owners manual, read what BMW has to say themselves about viscosity ranges for their approved oils:

Originally Posted by Newbie528

I needed to change oil quickly, becuase the old oil was getting dirty.

Huh? That makes little sense. How 'critical' can an oil selection be, in terms of immediate time?

I mean, it's not like you need to change your oil while you're stuck in traffic at rush hour with people honking behind you as you're pondering which oil to use while you're in the middle of a suspension bridge which is beginning to open to let the cruise ships through ...

Originally Posted by Newbie528

this will also flush the engine, and will go back to 5-30W. Is that bad for the car?

Does that question make any sense to anyone reading this?

Is he asking whether changing oils at 2,000 miles instead of, say, 7,500 miles, is 'bad for the car'?

Originally Posted by Newbie528

not sure if I should use the Mobil1 5-30W (full synthetic, since it's not LL-01 approved)

This thread is about HOW to choose oil.

If LL01 is your schtick, then by all means, ONLY buy LL01 approved oils. Period.

Just bear in mind nobody has ever blown up their engine by using Mobil1 5W30 oil.

It's your choice. It won't matter either way. It's like choosing religions. It makes you feel good; but in the end, no matter your religion, you get eaten by the same worms and your car gets crushed by the same salvage yard no matter which (quality) oil you choose to employ.

For religious details, see:
- BMW motor oil Petrolism & why people choose the oil they do (1)

Originally Posted by Newbie528

What are you views on the metioned concerns?!!!

Two views.

ONE: You worry too much.
TWO: You really should only use LL01 approved oils from now on!
Note: No rush: you have 7,500 or so miles to make the decision ... but do go back to LL01 when it's time to change your oil ... you'll then feel a 'lot' better about yourself.

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

Why do you think 0w-20 will "flush the engine"?....

That's what I was wondering too!

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

the Castrol product many of us use ... is Castrol Syntec 0w-30 European Formula.

I hold nothing against Castrol oils, but, on that brand name, you gotta' really hand it to BMW M A R K E T I N G!

Molding "Use Castrol" on the engine itself is a stroke of genius!
- Why does BMW mold "Use Castrol" on the oil filler cap (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6)

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

Bluebee will tell you it is all about "marketing" and some conspiracy between oil manufacturers and BMW to corner the oil market.

Close. Very close!

BMW marketing is very clever. They know that the typical BMW owner wants desperately to believe that his engine is, somehow, different than all the rest ... and ... by extension ... that 'he' is, somehow, different (better?) than all the rest.

Of course, marketing always requires the gullible; and for that, they have their market almost completely sewn up. It's impressive how well they select their customers, and, if anyone here thinks they spend those millions in marketing costs in vain, let me dispel those notions here and now.

Marketing works! BMW can sell LL01 approved snow to an Eskimo. They're that good! (BTW, I have a few years' experience in marketing myself). The whole point is to saturate logical thinking until it shuts down and you simply follow their leash. It's a game well played.

While marketing messages work best on the most gullible (i.e., the most willing to believe ... ask Goebbels), BMW marketing is so pervasive and determined, that we all succumb (in one way or another) to their marketing hype. It's human nature. We're herd animals to the core.

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

If you are uncomfortable or question your actions, the simplest, and safest answer is to simply follow the manufacturer's recommendations:

Exactly what I told him! (Only you said it better & more succinctly than I could have.)

Bluebee,
Remember also, that BMW recommends a whole host of other oils that also meet their LL-01 specification. One is never "required" to use Castrol products, they are only "recommended" And even more manufacturers claim to meet the specification, though they may not have BMWs tacit approval. The Castrol Syntec 0w-30 European Formula has BMWs approval, but it is NOT the "official" oil used or sold by BMW. It has not more relevance than any of the other oils approved by BMW, such as Mobil 1 0w-40.

I've simply found it easiest, and the least risk involved, to tell any new BMW owner to simply follow BMW's recommendations. While one can use whatever they like, most probably would want some justification for why...and then the discussion gets bogged down for pages and pages of opinion, technical data sheets, and even a little hocus pocus.

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

One is never "required" to use Castrol products

I know.

It's all about marketing dollars.

Your religion to oil analogies are...interesting.

When I bought my 2002 530i sport in July I had the car serviced in Asheville, NC (where purchased) before I drove the 350 miles home. The indy used Kendall GT-1 5w-30, which also meets the LL-01 spec requirements. My local auto zone does not list the Euro Castrol but does list the Kendall Gt-1, although it is a special order.

Right now my next change will be with Mobil 1 0w-40 as I have already purchased the oil and Mann filter. May look into the GT-1 later. I will do the changes myself.

Originally Posted by 540 M-Sport

Why do you think 0w-20 will "flush the engine"?....other than a lower viscosity, what properties does it have that would give it the ability to "flush" your engine?

Many have asked this question, how do I intend to flush my engine? I may have used a wrong "word/term". But what my intention was that I'll run THIS (0-20W full synthetic Mobil1) oil for about 2K miles only. So, I won't allow it to get too dirty or break down...and will change it with quick 2K miles on it. I theory is, with 2 oil (and 2 filter) changes in a short period (2K miles), I'll be able to clean up the inside of the engine. I usually go 5K-7K miles. But this time I wanted to do two quick oil/filter changes. Maybe I'm not able to explain well, but I hope you understand my point.

Originally Posted by bluebee

I know.

It's all about marketing dollars.

Secondly, I'd like to say, I'm not sure why everyone's making such a big deal about CASTROL name on the oil filler cap, and BMW's recomendation. This is Normal guys. Have you ever looked at the oil filler cap on a Corvette? It's the same as BMW! It says, Mobil1 5-30W. Yeah, and it must meet GM Corvette specs....just like we have BMW LL-01 specs. How ironic, I see people on the BMW forum using the SAME oil (Mobil1 5-30W, which is not LL-01 tagged). Generally I try to stay with a quality 5-30 Synthetic, sometimes Penzoil Platinum (5-30W). Bottom line, every maker has some kind of oil the recommend - BMW, Corvette, and I'm sure Mercedes does too.... The world of Marketing we live in.

Is this a right oil ?

Originally Posted by King540i

Your religion to oil analogies are...interesting.

After much thought (and even more discussion), we figured out the religious nature of the 'what oil' arguments was 'why' there were arguments.

Someone aptly termed the remarkable similarities, "Petrolism".

See also:
- Fundamental BMW fluids decision-making religious camps (1) and algorithms specific to motor oil selection (1), coolant choice (1), & gasoline dogma (1)

• Jewish
• Catholic
• Protestant

...

• BMW-approved oils only
• BMW-approved oils and similar oils only
  
• BMW-approved oils and similar oils and quality oils only

...
Either way, your beloved bimmer will live a long and happy life.

• HOWEVER: When it's time to meet it's Maker, your beloved departed bimmer ...
  • blissfully rises to mythical Bavarian Marketing pearly gates
  • knowingly lingers in mythical Bavarian purgatorial limbo
  • unrepentantly suffers in mythical Bavarian hell