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X5 E53 (1999 - 2006)
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  #1  
Old 05-12-2010, 03:03 PM
Ayrton Ayrton is offline
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Navigation map updates: why do we have to pay for those?

I just got our 2010 X5 35d last month and it is my first car with a nav system. Going through the forums I found out if one wants to keep the system up to date one has to buy map updates for the system from BMW at $200+ per update. Don't you guys find this to be ridiculous? I mean we are talking about a $60K+ car which includes maintenance on it. Shouldn't map updates be part of "scheduled maintenance".

Is this standard practice for other luxury brands?

I haven't even checked what version my car came with and I haven't found myself in a situation where the nav system is inconsistent with reality, but just think that we are being short changed on this.
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  #2  
Old 05-12-2010, 03:22 PM
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hsindogg hsindogg is offline
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Maybe because they have a third-party vendor doing the ins and outs of programming the NAV database or something. Since the third party would charge them for the NAV license, the cost is passed on to you.

That's just an example of why it may not be free, I really don't know if that's the case or not.
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  #3  
Old 05-12-2010, 04:47 PM
metro metro is offline
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I have a"06" 4.8 and the up date to your nav. will cost you 200.00, cause the c. d. is not up dated by bmw . i got a post card in the mail from bmw and i asked the same question you did, they do not make the c.d. just offer the up date as a service. i my self will keep my money, the up dates are new motel's and service station, etc.
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  #4  
Old 05-12-2010, 08:07 PM
BJKBerg BJKBerg is offline
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There are plenty of glitches in TeleAtlas maps. Every time you find one complain to your service advisor. Map updates are for new roads but defects in the map for existing roads should be covered under the warranty. If your service advisor does not take care of you see the service manager, if that does not work call BMW NA and demand a meeting with the regional service director. Simply put BMW NA is responsible for everything in the vehicle. You do not go to Bosch because the traction control module fails. It is crap that they try to deflect their responsibility to their supplier.
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  #5  
Old 05-12-2010, 09:44 PM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJKBerg View Post
There are plenty of glitches in TeleAtlas maps. Every time you find one complain to your service advisor. Map updates are for new roads but defects in the map for existing roads should be covered under the warranty. If your service advisor does not take care of you see the service manager, if that does not work call BMW NA and demand a meeting with the regional service director. Simply put BMW NA is responsible for everything in the vehicle. You do not go to Bosch because the traction control module fails. It is crap that they try to deflect their responsibility to their supplier.
Good approach. We'll see if it works....
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  #6  
Old 05-12-2010, 10:50 PM
DWill DWill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayrton View Post
I just got our 2010 X5 35d last month and it is my first car with a nav system. Going through the forums I found out if one wants to keep the system up to date one has to buy map updates for the system from BMW at $200+ per update. Don't you guys find this to be ridiculous? I mean we are talking about a $60K+ car which includes maintenance on it. Shouldn't map updates be part of "scheduled maintenance".

Is this standard practice for other luxury brands?

I haven't even checked what version my car came with and I haven't found myself in a situation where the nav system is inconsistent with reality, but just think that we are being short changed on this.
200.00??? That's just the cost of the maps.

I just had my 2010 X Nav updated; you can double that price.
Plus they bricked my car in the process and had for 10 days trying to fix it.
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  #7  
Old 05-12-2010, 11:21 PM
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b-y b-y is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJKBerg View Post
There are plenty of glitches in TeleAtlas maps. Every time you find one complain to your service advisor. Map updates are for new roads but defects in the map for existing roads should be covered under the warranty. If your service advisor does not take care of you see the service manager, if that does not work call BMW NA and demand a meeting with the regional service director. Simply put BMW NA is responsible for everything in the vehicle. You do not go to Bosch because the traction control module fails. It is crap that they try to deflect their responsibility to their supplier.
To put it clearly, that is nonsense. (a) Read the warranty for specific exclusions. (b) There isn't a road map made that does not have at least one error in it. No one gives you free repacement maps because of that. (c) This is true for other systems as well. The BT modules only work with a limited number of then-current phones, and no one expects them to work with all new phones. Or what about the radio...was there an obligation to replace all terrestrial AM/FM units with satellite radios when that service started?
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  #8  
Old 05-13-2010, 12:13 AM
335i 335i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b-y View Post
To put it clearly, that is nonsense. (a) Read the warranty for specific exclusions. (b) There isn't a road map made that does not have at least one error in it. No one gives you free repacement maps because of that. (c) This is true for other systems as well. The BT modules only work with a limited number of then-current phones, and no one expects them to work with all new phones. Or what about the radio...was there an obligation to replace all terrestrial AM/FM units with satellite radios when that service started?
This is just one of the many reasons I don't option any vehicle with navigation. When I need to get directions somewhere, I've got an iPhone that is much faster, and is WAY more capable. And for the places that aren't on the map, you've got a better chance finding them on the iPhone than on a map that hasn't been updated for a while. In the age of digital, I'm actually quite surprised this hasn't come farther in almost 10 years

Moreover, the price has barely decreased for the option I still am quite confused at how the option doesn't cost less after being on the market for 10 years? I'm sure I'm a minority here, but I'd rather upgrade the stereo and add a sport package and other goodies
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  #9  
Old 05-13-2010, 08:21 AM
jdibber jdibber is offline
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hmmm...can you display your phone GPS on the nav screen via usb?
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  #10  
Old 05-13-2010, 10:09 AM
hotrod2448 hotrod2448 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayrton View Post
I just got our 2010 X5 35d last month and it is my first car with a nav system. Going through the forums I found out if one wants to keep the system up to date one has to buy map updates for the system from BMW at $200+ per update. Don't you guys find this to be ridiculous? I mean we are talking about a $60K+ car which includes maintenance on it. Shouldn't map updates be part of "scheduled maintenance".

Is this standard practice for other luxury brands?

I haven't even checked what version my car came with and I haven't found myself in a situation where the nav system is inconsistent with reality, but just think that we are being short changed on this.
I understand where you are coming from but, why would an update be part of scheduled maintenance? It doesn't wear out it, doesn't "need" to be updated for the vehicle to function. It's a luxury just like satellite radio.

Honestly I don't really see the need to update the software very often even. It's not like most roads drastically change from year to year. I had the same disk in my 335 for 3 years and it still got me everywhere I wanted to go.
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  #11  
Old 05-13-2010, 10:26 AM
ard ard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b-y View Post
To put it clearly, that is nonsense. (a) Read the warranty for specific exclusions. (b) There isn't a road map made that does not have at least one error in it. No one gives you free repacement maps because of that. (c) This is true for other systems as well. The BT modules only work with a limited number of then-current phones, and no one expects them to work with all new phones. Or what about the radio...was there an obligation to replace all terrestrial AM/FM units with satellite radios when that service started?

Actually, have YOU read the warranty?

I can find NO exclusion for "software errors" or "navigation data shortcomings" or anything of the short- simply stated, BMW simply covers ALL 'defects in materials or workmanship' and then proceeds to limit that broad coverage (ie due to misuse, due to lack of maintenance, etc)

It is easy for people to say "Oh, they don't cover that"... and they might say they don't... but it is the document that defines the liability and it seems they never address navigation performance or maps data. YOUR expectations or experiences with what you as a lay person believes is 'right' or 'usual' is not applicable to the question of 'does the BMW warranty cover this?'


If nothing else, collecting and documenting shortcomings will help BMW just say "fine, upgrade him and bill us- lets be done with this"
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  #12  
Old 05-13-2010, 10:39 AM
335i 335i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdibber View Post
hmmm...can you display your phone GPS on the nav screen via usb?
Not that I'm aware of.. it would be nice to be able to display a mobile device though
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  #13  
Old 05-13-2010, 10:46 AM
335i 335i is offline
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Originally Posted by hotrod2448 View Post
I understand where you are coming from but, why would an update be part of scheduled maintenance? It doesn't wear out it, doesn't "need" to be updated for the vehicle to function. It's a luxury just like satellite radio.

Honestly I don't really see the need to update the software very often even. It's not like most roads drastically change from year to year. I had the same disk in my 335 for 3 years and it still got me everywhere I wanted to go.
I liken it to a firmware update for a computer, camera, phone, etc. Even Garmin only charges $120 for LIFETIME updates for your nav unit. And theirs doesn't cost anywhere NEAR what BMW charges for nav.

Google maps/mapquest, etc all provide free, updated maps.
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  #14  
Old 05-13-2010, 12:23 PM
hotrod2448 hotrod2448 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i View Post
I liken it to a firmware update for a computer, camera, phone, etc. Even Garmin only charges $120 for LIFETIME updates for your nav unit. And theirs doesn't cost anywhere NEAR what BMW charges for nav.

Google maps/mapquest, etc all provide free, updated maps.
But they still charge you something for it.

You can't compare online map sites with one in your vehicle. You could just as easily liken it to upgrading your OS on your computer, which you usually have to pay for.

We can make comparisons back and forth all day but the bottom line is currently BMW purchases the data from a 3rd party and that costs them money so, unfortunately it costs you and me money to update it.
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  #15  
Old 05-13-2010, 12:32 PM
Funf Dreisig Funf Dreisig is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335i View Post
This is just one of the many reasons I don't option any vehicle with navigation. When I need to get directions somewhere, I've got an iPhone that is much faster, and is WAY more capable. And for the places that aren't on the map, you've got a better chance finding them on the iPhone than on a map that hasn't been updated for a while. In the age of digital, I'm actually quite surprised this hasn't come farther in almost 10 years ....
I agree

Compared to an iPhone running FREE apps with very current aerial photos (Google Maps, Google Earth, etc. ) the BMW NAV system appears quite lame NOW and will become a mere conversation piece after a few more years and +/- a grand in updates. Anyone want to see my collection of antique technology, e.g. Sony Beta VCR, BMW iDrive NAV system, computers, .... ?

Of course there's the issue of using an iPhone while driving vs using a screen built into the dash and the iDrive while driving. IMHO BOTH are dangerous. And BMW agrees, as evidenced by the warning screen displayed EVERY time you start your X5. So if I'm alone, I just pull over and check my location, get the address of the nearest BBQ place, etc. via the iPhone. And if my wife is with me, she use the iPhone while I keep driving. But even then, we often pull over to discuss options, routes, etc.. But we're both retired. So the rest of our lives are quite a bit more precious to us than getting to the BBQ place a few minutes quicker

BTW my favorite view of the iDrive screen is OFF. I programed one of the steering wheel buttons for that purpose before I drove our X5 off the lot at delivery.

Funf Dreisig

Last edited by Funf Dreisig; 05-13-2010 at 03:53 PM.
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  #16  
Old 05-13-2010, 02:15 PM
DWill DWill is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf Dreisig View Post
I agree

Compared to an iPhone running FREE apps with very current aerial photos (Google Maps, Google Earth, etc. ) the BMW NAV system appears quite lame NOW and will become a mere conversation piece after a few more years and +/- a grand in updates. Anyone want to see my collection of antique technology, e.g. Sony Beta VCR, BMW iDrive NAV system, computers, .... ?

Of course there's the issue of using an iPhone while driving vs using a screen built into the dash and the iDrive while driving. IMHO BOTH are dangerous. And BMW agrees, as evidenced by the warning screen displayed EVERY time you start your X5. So if I'm alone, I just pull over and and check the location, get the address of the nearest BBQ place, etc. via the iPhone. And if my wife is with me, she use the iPhone while I keep driving. But even then, we often pull over to discuss options, routes, etc.. But we're retired. So the rest of our lives are quite a bit more precious to us than getting to the BBQ place a few minutes quicker

BTW my favorite view of the iDrive screen is OFF. I programed one of the steering wheel buttons for that purpose before I drove our X5 off the lot at delivery.

Funf Dreisig
Now you have me wondering...

I frequently like to drive the display off; I wonder if I can program one of the radio button for "display off".

Not that it's so hard to simply push the voice command button and say "display off" but it would be nice to just push a button and have the display turn off. I'm going to have to see if that works this afternoon...
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2010, 10:39 AM
Ayrton Ayrton is offline
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Originally Posted by hotrod2448 View Post
But they still charge you something for it.

You can't compare online map sites with one in your vehicle. You could just as easily liken it to upgrading your OS on your computer, which you usually have to pay for.

We can make comparisons back and forth all day but the bottom line is currently BMW purchases the data from a 3rd party and that costs them money so, unfortunately it costs you and me money to update it.

True, but under that logic any part BMW replaces as part of the maintenance program and which it pays for to a third party should be charged to us... The logic to say it should be part of scheduled maintenance is because if the system is giving wrong directions or is uncapable of providing directions it is not working properly and the map updates could fix that (though I can understand people finding this to be a stretch...).

As for the operating system comparison I would say to me it is more like the patches to an existing operating system, I am not asking for additional functionality, I am just asking for updated data...

I am glad we are having this discussion as my whole purpose was to get people's points of view. As I said I haven't had issues with the current maps and do not expect to require the updates any soon (probably never).

Last edited by Ayrton; 05-14-2010 at 10:44 AM.
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  #18  
Old 05-14-2010, 11:33 AM
335i 335i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayrton View Post
True, but under that logic any part BMW replaces as part of the maintenance program and which it pays for to a third party should be charged to us...

As for the operating system comparison I would say to me it is more like the patches to an existing operating system, I am not asking for additional functionality, I am just asking for updated data...

I am glad we are having this discussion as my whole purpose was to get people's points of view. As I said I haven't had issues with the current maps and do not expect to require the updates any soon (probably never).

Exactly. As much as the nav system costs, updates should be included. Free of charge.

Maybe limit any update to once per 12 months, etc.

But if the nav is incomplete, not working, has errors, etc, it should be patched, fixed, updated, etc. Software peeps do this regularly to correct their oversight or to further improve, and therefore market and sell their product.

I'd like to see BMW's sales pitch on this.. "And check out the iDrive and Navigation. Each update costs $400. It already needs an update to be current. And if it freezes up, don't worry, we're working on a solution for that. It will be provided in a future update."

Sounds like a windows problem
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Last edited by 335i; 05-14-2010 at 01:48 PM.
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  #19  
Old 05-14-2010, 11:38 AM
hotrod2448 hotrod2448 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayrton View Post
True, but under that logic any part BMW replaces as part of the maintenance program and which it pays for to a third party should be charged to us... The logic to say it should be part of scheduled maintenance is because if the system is giving wrong directions or is uncapable of providing directions it is not working properly and the map updates could fix that (though I can understand people finding this to be a stretch...).

As for the operating system comparison I would say to me it is more like the patches to an existing operating system, I am not asking for additional functionality, I am just asking for updated data...

I am glad we are having this discussion as my whole purpose was to get people's points of view. As I said I haven't had issues with the current maps and do not expect to require the updates any soon (probably never).
In my experience if you are having problems they will update it at their cost, although those were disc based systems where they could update the software without effecting the map data. Not sure how that works now.

I did not get the impression that is what this thread was originally discussing. I was interpreting it as "There is a new map out every year. I should automatically get that like an oil change even if everything is functioning normally."

Last edited by hotrod2448; 05-14-2010 at 12:53 PM.
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  #20  
Old 05-14-2010, 01:16 PM
Ayrton Ayrton is offline
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That was exactly what I meant. When I was alluding to the system giving improper directions or being uncapable of giving directions I didn't mean it as an event that actually happened (in which case the update would be a reactive action), but something that could potentially happen (which meant the update would be a proactive action). By developing updated maps the manufacturer is acknowledging that the current maps have issues and therefore are subject to provide improper directions (I am not referring to additional functionality just updated data), therefore it should provide the updates to avoid that situation.

This would not imply unlimited updates, but something like an annual update (like 335i suggested), or an update as part of the key service inspections.

Last edited by Ayrton; 05-14-2010 at 01:18 PM.
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  #21  
Old 05-14-2010, 02:58 PM
spyderdoc spyderdoc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Funf Dreisig View Post

BTW my favorite view of the iDrive screen is OFF. I programed one of the steering wheel buttons for that purpose before I drove our X5 off the lot at delivery.

Funf Dreisig
Ditto. I have one of my steering wheel buttons to shut off display. Only one annoying thing tho is that the screen seems to turn "black", but still has backlights on...It is not truly "off". Too bad.
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  #22  
Old 05-17-2010, 06:43 AM
hotrod2448 hotrod2448 is offline
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Ditto. I have one of my steering wheel buttons to shut off display. Only one annoying thing tho is that the screen seems to turn "black", but still has backlights on...It is not truly "off". Too bad.
They must have changed that for 2010. In my wife's 7 and my old 3 it would do what you are talking about but, in my X5 it goes completely dark, no back light at all. I was pretty happy to see that.
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  #23  
Old 10-23-2012, 11:27 AM
benny224 benny224 is offline
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NAV CD's load on my 2001 x5

I have a 2001 x5 we just bought my wife a new x3 it came with a set of CD's for the NAV system. Can I re-load them on my 2001 X%?
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  #24  
Old 11-01-2012, 04:27 PM
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QSilver7 QSilver7 is offline
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Are you sure both vehicles use CDs? Or does one use CDs and the other uses DVD?
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