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E90/E91/E92/E93 (2006 - 2013)
The E9X is the 4th evolution of the BMW 3 series including a highly tuned twin turbo 335i variant pushing out 300hp and 300 ft. lbs. of torque. BMW continues to show that it sets the bar for true driving performance! -- View the E9X Wiki

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  #51  
Old 05-19-2010, 10:28 PM
Fredric Fredric is offline
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CA, I am truly sorry about your tire experience. But what I am most curious about is what might have caused you sidewall to rupture like that, without your being aware of it. IIRC your first awareness of it came when the tire pressure warning light came on.
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  #52  
Old 05-19-2010, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredric View Post
CA, I am truly sorry about your tire experience. But what I am most curious about is what might have caused you sidewall to rupture like that, without your being aware of it. IIRC your first awareness of it came when the tire pressure warning light came on.
I really have no idea. I do not recall hitting any major potholes. I was very surprised when I got the warning, The rupture was on the inside wall of the tire so the damage may have been there for a while and I just did not notice it.

CA
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  #53  
Old 05-19-2010, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by tturedraider View Post
Couldn't mount the donut tire on the donut rim? I'd love to hear their explanation for that.


I'm not aware of any car manufacturer that designs their RFT designed cars with provision for a spare.
I believe Maserati may but I can't find any documentation,
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Last edited by captainaudio; 05-19-2010 at 11:08 PM.
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  #54  
Old 05-19-2010, 11:03 PM
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Orient330iNYC Orient330iNYC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I really have no idea. I do not recall hitting any major potholes. I was very surprised when I got the warning, The rupture was on the inside wall of the tire so the damage may have been there for a while and I just did not notice it.

CA
likely you hit a pothole that bubbled the inner sidewall. hitting a mild bump in the same spot is enough to rupture it for good. happened once, drove on a bubble, managed to hit a very mild ridge in the road in just the right spot, instant pressure loss.

i've had to use my compact spare 4 times so far across both cars.

in all the cases, as you are likely to find in NYC, the damage causing the flat was severe enough that the conti kit i carry in the trunk would have done nothing. lets face it, in NYC, you're most likely going to be dealing with sidewall damage or a bent/cracked rim. i've never gotten a normal puncture in the past 10 years. every instance has been a catastrophic failure of some kind.

i will say that after the last one, i went with a higher profile tire. still running 19s, but my overall diameter is close to 26" versus the standard 25" 3.5" of sidewall, same as running 18s.

the conti kit is, for what you will encounter in NYC, useless. more likely than not, its going to be a pothole or plate or some other road hazard that does you in, and it wont be tread damage, it will be sidewall/ rim damage.

any thoughts of putting on 17s?
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  #55  
Old 05-20-2010, 03:06 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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  #56  
Old 05-20-2010, 03:46 AM
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CA here are my thoughts on some of what you said in your original post.

Low profile tires/large rims-

BMW uses the size rims, on the 335i for example, for a reason. You have pretty large brakes if you took a look. They are fundamental requirements for a powerful or performance vehicle, I mean look at 60s and 70s muscle cars and see how many went into a tree because they couldn't stop from the speed they were capable of achieving.

As for the tire, it comes with the territory. A big thick tire will not fit in the fender wells of the typical BMW, at least not the 3er. The RFTs came out of necessity for weight and weight distribution I believe. Obviously it couldn't be to cut cost. Their "defect" of not being able to handle rough roads isn't exactly the tire's fault. It just comes with the necessity of the design. Most roads, at least in the US, are not in the best of shape. Most road hazards on these roads can be avoided if the driver tries to do so, let alone normally aren't an everyday occurrence. So how can a tire manufacturer design a tire that needs to be stiff to meet the design requirements and be able to handle large, destructive side wall abuse and flex? In all reality, they can't. Technology can only go so far and designing for instances that do not happen all that often can not be a deciding factor when it only affects maybe less than 5% of users. So 5% of dissatisfied customers really isn't that much to a corporation when the other 95% of users are content or have accepted that something can and may happen. The latter is my mindset and also why I have insurance on my rims and tires for such an event.

Suspension-

You drive a BMW. If it wasn't for that suspension you hate, it wouldn't be what makes it a BMW. The camber is what makes it drive like it does. You can't have proper handling without a little bit of camber, a live rear axle car is proof of this, a few cars being an exception of course. Then there's the stiffness that ties into that camber, once again a design tradeoff. Regardless you should expect things to not last as long on a high maintenance car, that is why it is a high maintenance car in the first place. In this price bracket that these cars are in, to some degree, BMW expects their customers to have some "disposable" funds for things such as this. $600 for a set of tires every 2 years or so should not be a burden to someone who buys a $60k automobile.

Where you live-

It is your own fault for having a car that doesn't suit your surroundings or requirements. For example, people who live in colder climates with lots of snow often have AWD or 4 wheel drive modes of transportation to help cope with that and a set of snow tires in the garage in addition. By the sound of it you should have a car with thick tire side walls.

My biggest thing is that you are complaining about, at least what it seems like to me is, your weekend car. A weekend car isn't meant to be practical, that's why it is a weekend car in the first place. If your weekend car isn't practical enough, then I don't think you need a weekend car in the first place IMO.

I apologize for the negative tone of this post, but this is my opinion of your circumstance.
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  #57  
Old 05-20-2010, 04:07 AM
pony_trekker pony_trekker is offline
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Given the current state of NY roads, I think this may be my next car:



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  #58  
Old 05-20-2010, 04:08 AM
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  #59  
Old 05-20-2010, 04:20 AM
supermick supermick is offline
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Question? Do you think the high pressures you run lead to this mishap?

Can you give me your new short list of the 335i replacement.

THanks
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  #60  
Old 05-20-2010, 04:37 AM
jmsent jmsent is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
I really have no idea. I do not recall hitting any major potholes. I was very surprised when I got the warning, The rupture was on the inside wall of the tire so the damage may have been there for a while and I just did not notice it.

CA
Every time I drive the NY metro area, I feel like I'm in a war zone. Driving a ZSP equipped BMW there has to be a real crap shoot. After reading your complaints over the past couple of years, I'm surprised you haven't considered going to a 17" wheel/tire package instead of sticking with 18's. This, combined with perhaps bumping up the sidewall profile to a 50 series tire would go a long way towards preventing a lot of damage along with improving the ride quality substantially. It would also make the speedo more accurate. A softer riding tire like a Turanza Serenity or Conti DWS would also make a considerble difference. Yes, you sacrifice a bit of handling, but in your case that sounds like a reasonable compromise.
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  #61  
Old 05-20-2010, 04:43 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minicrazy592 View Post
CA here are my thoughts on some of what you said in your original post.

Low profile tires/large rims-

BMW uses the size rims, on the 335i for example, for a reason. You have pretty large brakes if you took a look. They are fundamental requirements for a powerful or performance vehicle, I mean look at 60s and 70s muscle cars and see how many went into a tree because they couldn't stop from the speed they were capable of achieving.

As for the tire, it comes with the territory. A big thick tire will not fit in the fender wells of the typical BMW, at least not the 3er. The RFTs came out of necessity for weight and weight distribution I believe. Obviously it couldn't be to cut cost. Their "defect" of not being able to handle rough roads isn't exactly the tire's fault. It just comes with the necessity of the design. Most roads, at least in the US, are not in the best of shape. Most road hazards on these roads can be avoided if the driver tries to do so, let alone normally aren't an everyday occurrence. So how can a tire manufacturer design a tire that needs to be stiff to meet the design requirements and be able to handle large, destructive side wall abuse and flex? In all reality, they can't. Technology can only go so far and designing for instances that do not happen all that often can not be a deciding factor when it only affects maybe less than 5% of users. So 5% of dissatisfied customers really isn't that much to a corporation when the other 95% of users are content or have accepted that something can and may happen. The latter is my mindset and also why I have insurance on my rims and tires for such an event.

Suspension-

You drive a BMW. If it wasn't for that suspension you hate, it wouldn't be what makes it a BMW. The camber is what makes it drive like it does. You can't have proper handling without a little bit of camber, a live rear axle car is proof of this, a few cars being an exception of course. Then there's the stiffness that ties into that camber, once again a design tradeoff. Regardless you should expect things to not last as long on a high maintenance car, that is why it is a high maintenance car in the first place. In this price bracket that these cars are in, to some degree, BMW expects their customers to have some "disposable" funds for things such as this. $600 for a set of tires every 2 years or so should not be a burden to someone who buys a $60k automobile.

Where you live-

It is your own fault for having a car that doesn't suit your surroundings or requirements. For example, people who live in colder climates with lots of snow often have AWD or 4 wheel drive modes of transportation to help cope with that and a set of snow tires in the garage in addition. By the sound of it you should have a car with thick tire side walls.

My biggest thing is that you are complaining about, at least what it seems like to me is, your weekend car. A weekend car isn't meant to be practical, that's why it is a weekend car in the first place. If your weekend car isn't practical enough, then I don't think you need a weekend car in the first place IMO.

I apologize for the negative tone of this post, but this is my opinion of your circumstance.
1. What does a lack of practicality have to do with regularly blowing out tires? That is not a lack of practicality, that is a lack of reliability.

2. Drive around the potholes. Thanks for the tip. That would never occured to me.

3. What relevance camber has to this issue escapes me.

4. "BMW expects their customers to have some disposable funds". Once again thanks for the tip.

The assertion that in order for a car to handle properly it has to have a rock hard suspension and the ride quality of a covered wagon is not valid. As a matter of fact, as many here have noticed, the extreme stiffness of the OEM Bridgstone RFTs is detrimental to handling. They bounce around on bumpy curves and the contact patches loose contact with the road. I am certainly not the only one here who has had this issue.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...ole+explosions

CA
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  #62  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:01 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supermick View Post
Question? Do you think the high pressures you run lead to this mishap?

Can you give me your new short list of the 335i replacement.

THanks
That occured to me but I am only running 3 or 4 PSI above the recommended pressure and should be well within the specs of the tire. Also it happened on a wet chilly morning and I has not driven the car very far so they were not hot. I suspect the damage may have been there for a while and gone unnoticed since it was on the inside side wall on a rear tire.

I was very frustrated when I posted last night but I think I verbalized what a lot of BMW drivers have felt at one time or another. I should have said "I am extremely frustrated by this car" rather than "I hate this car".

I expected to get a certain amount of "BMWs are perfect, how dare you criticize them" responses but as many have posted here the RFTs, while good in theory, are not all that great in execution. I would be interested in seeing how the new third gereration RFTs are but so far they are not available.

Not sure what I will get next or if (in spite of my rant) I will explore options such as Koni FSD shocks, donut spare, etc. for the 335i.

CA
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  #63  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:05 AM
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DSXMachina DSXMachina is offline
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Good morning Captain. Just tuned in. Don't do anything drastic until after The Climb. I promise you good roads in NH, and you'll have the P9'ers to discuss some of your options with.
If you have tire trouble here I will lend you a mounted tire with BMW wheel until you get back to the City!

Here is a pic of my car next to what I drive into NYC.
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  #64  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orient330iNYC View Post

any thoughts of putting on 17s?
OP - Read Here, above suggestion is your solution ... seriously !!!


This is exactly what I was thinking, the difference in ride comfort from the 17" standard wheel to the 18" sport wheel (both with run flats) is huge IMO. The 18's are very harsh and I never felt to provide as much grip as they should have for a high performance tire.

I had both when I had my 335i ... with that said if you still want out of the BMW you should consider looking at the C350 ... I have one and the ride is much smoother there are no run flats, it comes with a spare tire but it also provides the similar type of drive that the 3 series offers.


Anyway OP I am not a fan of the run flats but BMW designed the suspensions around them and I like the safety factor if god forbid there is a blow out which is why I keep them on the 650. Hopefully the next generation of runflats are coming soon and will hopefully work out the negative kinks.

Best of luck and sorry to hear of your problem.
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  #65  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:23 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by DSXMachina View Post
Good morning Captain. Just tuned in. Don't do anything drastic until after The Climb. I promise you good roads in NH, and you'll have the P9'ers to discuss some of your options with.
If you have tire trouble here I will lend you a mounted tire with BMW wheel until you get back to the City!

Here is a pic of my car next to what I drive into NYC.
I have a solution. I just hired this guy to follow me around.



CA
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  #66  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:25 AM
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I guess I went to bed a little too early last night to miss these shenanigans!

CA, all RFT arguments aside, you're lucky you weren't killed on the side of the Saw Mill. Too be honest, I always thought you were a little nuts running 19" wheels in NYC regardless of the tires on the vehicle. Even when we had the 328xi sedan with 16" wheels, the GF and I would always opt to take her SUV down to Presbyterian Hospital.
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  #67  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:29 AM
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Bob Shiftright Bob Shiftright is offline
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Originally Posted by pony_trekker View Post
Given the current state of NY roads, I think this may be my next car:



Body on frame construction works in NYC.
Highway maintenance has been a basic function of government since the Roman Empire. I'm not sure what happened to Roman highways during the "Decline and Fall" but I can imagine it's something like this. Today is May 20, and I'm planning on switching from my 16" winter tires and wheels. This is an all-time record. I don't blame BMW, however. I blame the people who I'm paying to maintain the roads and who aren't doing their jobs.

I won't drive a car into NYC. New Jersey is bad enough.

BTW, this is an "original" BMW 325 convertible. It looks like it would do OK with NYC potholes. Maybe BMW should dust off the old plans.

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  #68  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:37 AM
LawrenceSmith LawrenceSmith is offline
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I feel for you. I want to take the 335 to to New England this summer but I'm not too interested in having a similar experience to yours. I've still got the RFT's on but it doesn't really matter as if I have a problem the best outcome is I can go a few miles down the road before I'm screwed. Let's see... wife, kid me all stranded somewhere on 95. Nope, doesn't sound too attractive.

Lawrence
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  #69  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majikthese42 View Post
Highway maintenance has been a basic function of government since the Roman Empire. I'm not sure what happened to Roman highways during the "Decline and Fall" but I can imagine it's something like this. Today is May 20, and I'm planning on switching from my 16" winter tires and wheels. This is an all-time record. I don't blame BMW, however. I blame the people who I'm paying to maintain the roads and who aren't doing their jobs.

I won't drive a car into NYC. New Jersey is bad enough.

BTW, this is an "original" BMW 325 convertible. It looks like it would do OK with NYC potholes. Maybe BMW should dust off the old plans.

I saw a picture of a whole string of those 'verts driving under L'Arc de Triomphe.
(Kind of an ironic name for it at the time.)
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  #70  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:42 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Originally Posted by E92Submarine View Post
I guess I went to bed a little too early last night to miss these shenanigans!

CA, all RFT arguments aside, you're lucky you weren't killed on the side of the Saw Mill. Too be honest, I always thought you were a little nuts running 19" wheels in NYC regardless of the tires on the vehicle. Even when we had the 328xi sedan with 16" wheels, the GF and I would always opt to take her SUV down to Presbyterian Hospital.
I am running 18s. I got rid of the RFTs but I am on style 196 rims that are the same size as the 189s that came with the car and the tires are the same as the OEM size as well.

CA
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  #71  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:48 AM
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I am running 18s. I got rid of the RFTs but I am on style 196 rims that are the same size as the 189s that came with the car and the tires are the same as the OEM size as well.

CA
Ah, my mistake. They looked larger. You say you've been able to bend one of those rims? One would think a 14 spoke (If I can count this morning) wheel would be hard to bend.



How does Mrs. Audio's Jaguar perform on the same roads?
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  #72  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:52 AM
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I have a solution. I just hired this guy to follow me around.



CA
It will be sorry to see you go. I agree that the later BMWs have had some quality issues and decisions made with respect to the vehicle "features" are in reality reliable only for 4 years or 50k miles. If you decide to stay with BMW, look for an E34 535i, those things are bulletproof and put the would-be car payment into restoration of one of the best BMWs made (5MT of course!).
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  #73  
Old 05-20-2010, 05:55 AM
anE934fun anE934fun is offline
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Originally Posted by captainaudio View Post
That occured to me but I am only running 3 or 4 PSI above the recommended pressure and should be well within the specs of the tire. Also it happened on a wet chilly morning and I has not driven the car very far so they were not hot. I suspect the damage may have been there for a while and gone unnoticed since it was on the inside side wall on a rear tire.

I was very frustrated when I posted last night but I think I verbalized what a lot of BMW drivers have felt at one time or another. I should have said "I am extremely frustrated by this car" rather than "I hate this car".

I expected to get a certain amount of "BMWs are perfect, how dare you criticize them" responses but as many have posted here the RFTs, while good in theory, are not all that great in execution. I would be interested in seeing how the new third gereration RFTs are but so far they are not available.

Not sure what I will get next or if (in spite of my rant) I will explore options such as Koni FSD shocks, donut spare, etc. for the 335i.

CA
If you are exploring 'other' options, I would add 17 inch non-RFT tires (and obviously wheels as well) to your list of options.
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Old 05-20-2010, 05:56 AM
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captainaudio captainaudio is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92Submarine View Post
Ah, my mistake. They looked larger. You say you've been able to bend one of those rims? One would think a 14 spoke (If I can count this morning) wheel would be hard to bend.



How does Mrs. Audio's Jaguar perform on the same roads?
There is no comparison. The Jaguar is much better at handling bad surfaces.

The pothole that I hit when I bent the rim was extreme. It was more like a crater. There was a section the full width of the lane and about 10" deep with sharp edges. There was a large truck in front of me so I did not see it until the last moment. I could not steer around it because there was a car in the lane next to me. In that case I don't know of any car that would not have taken a hard hit. The rim bent and the tire bubbled but it held air and I was able to drive back to the city.

CA
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Last edited by captainaudio; 05-20-2010 at 06:02 AM.
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Old 05-20-2010, 06:01 AM
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SeeYal SeeYal is offline
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I feel your pain, Cap! It has been 2 years for me - just got my pen - and I am down 2 rimms and 2 tires... AND I DRIVE 90% ON I-10...
2" pothole at 80-90 mph does not forgive... when it is not some other junk... it really comes down to that BMW are built for countries who have autobahns, not farm roads...
I am going back to a silverado, or a denali in 10 months...
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