Why so hard to price Axxis Deluxe Advanced brake pads on the Internet?

EDIT: According to Zeckhausen, Axxis is no longer sold in the USA (I couldn't find any front pads for my 2002 525i; folks are just dumping their existing stock, according to Zeckhausen (but not confirmed by other sellers).


Is it your experience that is it rather confusing to price Axxis Deluxe Advanced brake pads on the Internet?

I want to try the oft-recommended low-dusting Axxis Deluxe Advanced brake pads, but, I find that the web sites I surveyed have an extremely confusing array of similar-sounding selections, with vastly different prices!

A quarter of the time, I can't tell WHAT they're selling because they don't provide enough information.

Sure, if they said they were selling the "Axxis Deluxe Advanced Ceramic FRONT Brake Pad Set", I could easily price compare. Even if they said they were selling them by the previous name, "Axxis Deluxe Plus Brake Pad Set", I could easily compare.

But nooooo! I find these same pads (apparently) go under a variety of brand names (with different prices!) such as "PBR", "MetalMaster", "Repco", "Axxis" ... all of which are (apparently) the same pads made by Bendix Mintex in Australia.

Half the time the web sites don't even specify the model name; they just specify the brand (generally PBR, MetalMaster, or Axxis, but, sometimes Mintex). Some of them specify "organic" or "ceramic" ... but apparently the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads are "ceramic-enhanced organic pads" and "formulated from ceramic NAO materials", whatever that means.

Given that huge plethora of confusing lookups, I made a first-pass survey on the Internet at the current price and availability for the 2002 BMW 525i sedan - and was shocked that well-recommended houses (such as Zeckhausen and EAC Tuning and Pacific BMW, etc.) didn't even stock these often-recommended brake pads.

Here's the result of my preliminary survey this morning:
- alloembmwparts.com ($50, PN:W0133-1620925)
- apexperformance.net (NA)
- bavarian autosport ($45, very confusing, mintex, PN:MDB 1817D)
- bimmerpartswholesale.com ($50, but confusing words, PN:W0133-1620925)
- bmaparts.com ($65, confusing name PBR Ceramic PN:BMW077021)
- bmwautobodypartstore.com ($70, PN:N1010-65135)
- buybrakes.com (NA)
- catalog.brakewarehouse.com ($60)
- catalog.worldpac.com ($68)
- circlebmw (NA, couldn't find the parts & price listed)
- crevier (NA, couldn't find the parts & price listed)
- crownbmw (NA, couldn't find the parts & price listed)
- eactuning.com (NA)
- europartsdirect.com ($48, hard to tell brand & model, PN:BMW077021)
- getbmwparts.com (NA)
- KO Performance (NA)
- Pacific BMW (NA, couldn't find)
- Pelican (NA)
- performance.importrp.com ($41)
- ***********.com ($50)
- Turner Motorsport (NA, only serve other BMW models)
- Zechhausen (NA, only have the rears)

My (confused) question is ... is it just me or is it terribly confusing to get price and availability on something as simple as the PBR/Axxis Deluxe Advanced Ceramic FRONT Brake Pad Set?"

Seems to me you've spent more time than you'll save in money so far; just buy them from a reputable supplier, and don't worry about saving $15.

BTW, I've been using them on all my German cars for more than 30 years, and I'm quite satisfied. They're easy on rotors, too, besides the lack of dust.

An alternative are the Akebono Euro - also low dust.
I mounted those last weekend on my car paired with Zimmermann cross drilled (for bling).
So far so good. Almost OEM feel.
Not sure about pricing (more or less $$ compared to Axxis).
Concerning the physical aspect - as opposed to the Axxis, the Akebono look identical to any of the OEM pads (Pagid, Jurid etc)

Originally Posted by edjack

just buy them from a reputable supplier

I understand this recommendation ... but ... you have to then add the caveat:

"Just buy them from a reputable supplier AND you MUST call them up to confirm they are actually the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads ... because ... you can't tell from their Internet web sites!"

It's my experience (from this search), that you MUST use the telephone (unfortunately)!

Turner sells them.
You have to ask them on the phone though.
I would just get the Metal Masters or the Axxis Ultimates instead though.
I would also call here too:
http://www.speednetmotorsports.com/index.html

What's wrong with using the telephone?
I prefer it.
That way, I can make SURE the vendor understands, and gets my order correct.

Originally Posted by Jason5driver

What's wrong with using the telephone?
I prefer it.

I was trying to do a survey of the entire Internet; the telephone isn't as efficient as the web for that kind of data collection. Besides, I did all that research overnight so nobody would have been there to pick up the phone!

If I wasn't doing a survey, and, if I already KNEW the top-3 suppliers to go to for price & quality for the Axxis Deluxe Advanced front brake pads, the telephone would have been fine (as in this thread).

BTW, thanks for the information about Turner (it wasn't on the web site) and Speednetmotorsports is a new one to me (it's not in the top-20 suppliers thread).

As for MetalMasters & Axxis Ultimates ... it's hard to tell the difference between 'em since MetalMasters is (apparently) the same company as "Axxis" according to the links I previously posted. There may be absolutely no difference between 90% of the "things" called "ceramic MetalMasters" or "ceramic Axxis" or "ceramic PBR", or "ceramic Mintex", etc. I'm thoroughly confused about all this name-brand duplication (and I think that's what they had intended from the start).

As for the ceramic versus the semi-ceramic Axxis-branded front pads, I wanted to try the low-dusting of the Axxis Deluxe Advanced and I don't race ...

Bluebee:

For MANY years PBR/Axxis made:

1. Deluxe (less dust, not up for track duty)
2. Metal Masters (lots of dust, OK for DE, not racing)

These were the only two options and though they didn't admit it ... the compounds eventually changed (progress no doubt).

In the last several years they have re-introduced and re-marketed basically the same product, updated as necessary. From my understanding, pads are a lot like batteries, there are only a few manufacturers and LOTS of re-branders (excluding the high-end race pads form Pagid, Carbotech, Porter, Performance Friction, etc...). Getting what you are asking for can be a challenge and I have found that working with one supplier that also races the same MFG pad can get you the true info on pad life, performance, hidden gotchas.

I have Mintex reds on my touring and they have pitted my ASA AR1 wheels with hot pad material flaking off. They also produce a red dust within one or two driving cycles after a wash. I would not buy them again even though they are barely worn after lots of miles. I also noticed they have even pitted the black paint on the inside of the rim (take the wheels off often to make repairs, etc...).

I'm going with the recommended dustless pads (Akebono Euro) next....just hope to not ruin they wheels more. I'll do somoe research and see if they are made at the same plant as several others and whether the formula is truly proprietary or it is marketing hype.

Originally Posted by Jase007

I'm going with the dustless Akebono Euro next....I'll do some research ... whether the formula is truly proprietary or it is marketing hype.

Thanks. I wish EVERYONE would post some actual research on the most-recommended brake pads (e.g., Axxis Deluxe Advanced, Axxiss Ultimates, Akebono Euro, etc.) so we can separate the marketing from the hype.

I suspect they change the wording by ten words or so, and they can get an extra ten dollars per set out of the dumbest of us who rely solely on the marketing hype!

Like you, I hope not to be one to fall for the hyperbole so I appreciate anyone posting FACTS about the most-often-recommended pads!

Just go to Dave Zeckhausen's site and order them. That's where I get my brake parts (including Axxis Deluxe). Fair prices and great service.
http://store.zeckhausen.com/catalog/...6uk70unut1fhm2

Wow. I knew about PBR/Axxis, did not know all the other brand names were same manufacturer.

LOVE the PBR Deluxe on my 530, feels OEM to me for street driving and so little dust its amazing.

Chief -- thanks for link, will check out when I need to replace.

Originally Posted by Edgy36-39

Wow. I knew about PBR/Axxis, did not know all the other brand names were same manufacturer.

All I want is the best price for Axxis Deluxe Advanced front pads!
But I agree, it's terribly confusing to me as I try to sort out this information.

Half the time the ad just says "Axxis ceramic" or "Axxis organic" (which is meaningless, you'll see, by the end of this post. Others say PBR. Still others say Bendix or MetalMasters (confusing brands and parent companies).

Even the "reputable" guys are hard to follow.

This Zeckhausen article says "Axxis pads are manufactured by Bendix Mintex in Australia" and that "Axxis Deluxe Advanced were formerly called Axxis Deluxe Plus" (yet see below how Zeckhausen can't possibly be correct) and it says they're "ceramic-enhanced organic pads"; yet the Axxis Ultimates are supposedly the "ceramic" pads.

While the word ceramic in brake pads is almost meaningless, people here seem to refer the Axxis Ultimates as the Axxis ceramic pads (yet, clearly the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads also have ceramics in them).

Even as I knew the word ceramic, is meaningless, it seems, in the context of choosing amongst Axxis pads, it seems half the Internet ads classify the Axxis pads as ceramic or organic and you're supposed to choose between them. You can't possibly do this scientifically based on the ads themselves!

To make it even more confusing, listen to the genesis of the Axxis/PBR Deluxe Advanced/Plus pads in this article where it says:
- First there was the original Axxis Deluxe Brake Pads (presumably asbestos)
- Then came Axxis Deluxe Plus Brake Pads, an asbestos-free organic
- Today it's Axxis Deluxe Advanced, a family of ceramic materials

See? Zeckhausen equates Axxis Deluxe Plus with Axxis Deluxe Advanced, yet, they can't possibly be the same because one is organic the other organic with ceramics.

To confuse things even more, they call the material in Axxis Deluxe Plus "ceramic NAO" where NAO, I think, means non-asbestos organic, so, what is it? Ceramic? or Organic? It's sooooo confusing!

This link, among others, intimates these are all from the same company:
Repco Mintex Axxis PBR MetalMasters and to that we can add Bendix (as in Bendix Mintex) and Deluxe (as in Axxis Deluxe) and Ultimates (as in Axxis Ultimates).

All I want is to purchase from a web site a low-dusting great front pad at a good price without having to wade through miles of advertising BS (even the revered Turner Motorsport apparently doesn't put their availability truthfully on the Internet).

Even where they come from is confusing, as most people say Axxis pads are made in Australia but they're apparently actually made in Australia, Thailand, Malaysia, the U.S. and Canada.

I'm just wondering if it's just me or do they make it really hard to make an informed decision on the Internet?

I'm soooo confused!
All I want is the best price for Axxis Deluxe Advanced front pads!

Like I said, TALK to Turner.
CALL them.
They will clarify.

Also CALL Dave Zeckhausen.
Don't be afraid to call.

IMO, you can't wrong with the Axxis Metal Masters, or the Ultimates from what I have heard.
The tech at Turner says that the Deluxes just have a little bit better cold bite, but sacrifice that cold bite for some of the warmer bite.
Talk to Doug at Turner.
He has an E39 525i.
He also has the Axxis Deluxes on his car too.

Also try talking to Michel/ mmm635.
He is VERY knowledgeable.

All of this picking apart really does nothing IMO.
All to save a few bucks...?
It's not really worth it IMO.

Thanks!
Jason

Like I said, TALK to Turner.
CALL them.
They will clarify.

I've had good experience with Turner, if they sell them I'd agree good idea to get them there.

Also try talking to Michel/ mmm635.
He is VERY knowledgeable.

Agree with this too -- always a good idea to ask Michel almost anything about these cars.

I agree that the labeling of Axxis pads is a bit misleading. From what I have seen, the original Axxis Deluxe has been replaced by the Deluxe Plus and is non-ceramic and "organic" (carbon based?). The Advanced appears to be their newer ceramic formulation. You left one vendor off your list: OEMBimmerparts.com. They carry PBR/Axxis and have the Deluxe Plus for $50 and the Ceramic for $59 for the 528 & 525 e39s. They also have the same pad sets labeled for "530i & 540i" which is for 01+ 530s and 96+ 540s. I am guessing you need the former. I've had the older Axxis Deluxe all around on my previous e39 and now have the Akebono Euros on the front and the Axxis Advanced (ceramic) on the rears on my current e39. The older Deluxe would squeal occasionally, requiring rebedding the pads. The Euros are quieter and never squeal. Dust levels are about the same (the Euro dust is a fine white powder making it almost invisible). Brake bite and feel (linearity) are about the same, both are notcieably not as good as OEM pads, but you get adapt to the differences very quickly

Originally Posted by Fudman

both are noticeably not as good as OEM pads

Oh my! I thought the whole point of the non-OEM pads was to get just-as-good braking with less dusting?

The picture in post #1 above says (verbatim) "Axxis Deluxe Advanced gives you uncompromising performance – equal to or better than the O.E. brake pads – with an exceptionally smooth pedal feel and hardly any detectable level of brake dust".

And, the Zeckhausen advertising says (verbatim) "Axxis Deluxe Advanced ... has the grip and fade resistance required for performance cars. These ceramic-enhanced organic pads continue to work well at temperatures up to 716 °F, similar to OEM pads. The only thing you give up is the dust!"

This is very important!

I don't want LESS braking than the OEM (Jurid/Textar) pads I have on now!

Are you SURE the Axxis Deluxe Advanced ceramic non-asbestos organic pads "are noticeably not as good as OEM"????? (that would nix them as a selection, if that is true)

Originally Posted by Jason5driver

Turner sells them.
You have to ask them on the phone though.

Turner doesn't "stock" the ceramic non-asbestos organic Axxis Deluxe Advanced front pads; nor do they sell them on their web site; but, you are correct, it will only take Turner Motorsports (800-280-6966) an extra day to get them at $54 plus an extra $10 to ship from Massachusetts to California.

Originally Posted by Edgy36-39

Wow. I knew about PBR/Axxis, did not know all the other brand names were same manufacturer.

It gets even worse.

Another equatable manufacturing synonym is apparently "FMP Group" according to this Turner Motorsports FAQ PDF (see attached).

More confusing yet, their FAQ (see attached) says the MetalMasters are the same as the PBR Ult and the Axxis ULT ... so anyone who suggests MetalMasters, for example, over the Axxis ULT or the PBR Ult, would be spreading even more confusion (as they're all the same thing apparently)!

So, that makes these (probably) all the same manufacturer:
- Axxis
- Bendix Mintex (aka Mintex)
- FMP Group
- PBR
- Repco
- (and probably some more)

And, that makes these pads exactly the same thing (apparently):
- Axxis ULT
- PBR ULT
- Axxis MetalMasters

And, these pads are (practically) the same thing (by some accounts):
- Axxis Deluxe Plus (non-asbestos organic)
- Axxis Deluxe Advanced (ceramic, non-asbestos organic)

So, it seems, before I can even begin to understand how to BUY these things, I have to understand the confusing myriad of manufacturer and brand names which all refer to exactly the same thing!

Pick up the phone and call Dave Zeckhausen. He will answer any questions you have, and when it comes to brakes he is the expert on that topic.

Originally Posted by bluebee

Oh my! I thought the whole point of the non-OEM pads was to get just-as-good braking with less dusting?

The picture in post #1 above says (verbatim) "Axxis Deluxe Advanced gives you uncompromising performance – equal to or better than the O.E. brake pads – with an exceptionally smooth pedal feel and hardly any detectable level of brake dust".

And, the Zeckhausen advertising says (verbatim) "Axxis Deluxe Advanced ... has the grip and fade resistance required for performance cars. These ceramic-enhanced organic pads continue to work well at temperatures up to 716 °F, similar to OEM pads. The only thing you give up is the dust!"

This is very important!

I don't want LESS braking than the OEM (Jurid/Textar) pads I have on now!

Are you SURE the Axxis Deluxe Advanced ceramic non-asbestos organic pads "are noticeably not as good as OEM"????? (that would nix them as a selection, if that is true)

Braking performance is somewhat subjective since most of us don't actually measure our minimum braking distances. When it comes to actual braking distance, my theory is that all pads should have similar braking distances since in a max braking situation with current ABS, the driver simply mashes the brake pedal. The braking system should immediately lock-up the wheel but doesn't because of the ABS, which modulates the brake pressure to prevent wheel lockup. Hence actual braking distances, irrespective of pad types, should not vary significantly.
However, braking is much more than simply minimum braking distance. In a high performance setting, a driver must modulate the brakes to optimize braking performance while maintaining max car speed. This requires the proper brake "feel". The OEM brake pads have great "feel". The initial brake bite (the initial brake pad response to brake pedal pressure) is immediate and the braking feels very linear with respect to brake pedal pressure. With the Axxis and Akebonos, I find the initial brake bite is less than the OEM pads (e.g. greater initial pedal pressure is required to get noticeable braking) and the overall relationship between pedal pressure and braking performance feels non-linear. Now I am no Michael Schumacher and I don't drive hard but that is what it feels to me. Some say the performance of these pads is very similar. Many agree with my observations. Either way, it doesn;t realy matter as you adapt to the braking of the car subconsciously so the pad type really makes little difference in normal street driving. What really makes a difference is the lack of dust. These pads are near dustless. They require a light cleaning (spray and rinse) about 4-5 times a year vs. taking out the wheel brushes every other week. I have Style 42s, so that is a major PITA. That alone makes these dustless pads worth every penny.

Originally Posted by Jason5driver

I would just get the Metal Masters or the Axxis Ultimates instead though.

The Metal Masters are (almost assuredly) exactly the same thing as the Axxis Ultimates ... See why I'm so confused!

I would also call here too:
http://www.speednetmotorsports.com/index.html
What's wrong with using the telephone?

I was on the phone forever with Speednetmotorsports in California and determined the following:
- Their web site does NOT show they sell the Axxis Deluxe Advanced
- When you ask them, they try to sell you the Axxis Ultimates instead
- If you tell them you don't want the Axxis ULTs, they try like crazy to sell you the Australian Centric Parts Posi Quiet pads instead
- And, if you keep on insisting, they'll actually look up the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads
- But they'll get back to you in a few minutes saying they have the Axxis Deluxe Plus in stock
- And when you mention that half the web sites say that the Axxis Deluxe Plus are different (the other half saying they're the same) as the Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads ... they go off for a few minutes to confirm or deny
- And, rather a long time later, they say they are the same thing.
- After all that, you get a price of $45 + 10%tax + $10 shipping = ~$60

See what's wrong with the telephone?
Of course, the web sites are all wrong too (since they don't even mention ANY of this on the web site!) ...

So, that's why I asked in the beginning ... why is this so hard?
All I'm trying to do is get a survey of about 10 prices for the Axxis Deluxe Advanced front brake pads for the 2002 BMW 525i!

Lesson learned! It's hard, not because it's a hard job - but because they WANT you to be confused and to not shop scientifically!

Originally Posted by chiefwej

Pick up the phone and call Dave Zeckhausen.

I've already read everything on his web site and I did talk to him last time I put on the Jurid/Textars (front/rear) ... but it's too late to call him now.

I'll call him in the morning. But, the problem is that it's soooo confusing all this data that makes no sense that it will be hard to pose the right question to him.

All I want is to survey prices & availability for the most recommended low-dusting OEM performance pads, which I think is the ceramic non-asbestos organic Axxis Deluxe Advanced pads (based on what many people say here and on web sites such as Dave Zeckhausen's and others already quoted).

It shouldn't be this hard to price 10 suppliers!

Originally Posted by Jason5driver

All of this picking apart really does nothing IMO.
All to save a few bucks...?
It's not really worth it IMO.

What I'm trying to do is survey and report back results.

The point isn't only to save a few bucks.

The point is to select the BEST (top 3) suppliers for the most-recommended low-dusting street pads (i.e., Axxis Deluxe Advanced).

The PROBLEM with that survey isn't my fault:
- Very many brand names are the same thing! (with differential pricing!)
- Many manufacturers are the same thing! (again, with different prices!)
- Even models are often listed as the same thing (witness the Axxis Deluxe Advanced half the time being said to be the same as the Axxis Deluxe Plus, while the other half the time they're said to be different materials!)

If the only intent of all my posts were to find the immediate answer, then I wouldn't have made 99% of the two thousand or so posts I have on Bimmerfest in the past two years.

The point is to LEARN and to ADD VALUE such that the next person can pick up where we (the royal we) left off.

At the moment, I don't have the top-3 suppliers (by price) for the Axxis Deluxe Advanced brake pads ... not for lack of trying ... but for lack of consistent information!

But, I'll keep trying until we do!

Originally Posted by Fudman

Braking performance is somewhat subjective

Tell me about it! I'll bet I can find a dozen references where someone says they like the MetalMasters over the Axxis ULT or PBR Ult when they're all the exact same pad!

These pads are near dustless.

Yup. That's what I want. Low dust, OEM performance!

I did my research BEFORE I posted this thread, and what came up most for low-dust OEM street performance was the Axxis Deluxe Advanced ...

So that's why I'm trying to report back to the team the top-3 suppliers for the Axxis Deluxe Advanced (only I'm stymied by the sellers themselves).

Anyway, at the moment, here's the survey results (tentative):

THESE GUYS (apparently) DO NOT SELL Axxis Deluxe Advanced front pads for the 2002 BMW 525i:
- apexperformance.net
- buybrakes.com
- circlebmw
- crevier
- crownbmw
- eactuning.com
- getbmwparts.com
- KO Performance
- Pacific BMW
- Pelican
- Zeckhausen (? ... certainly not from their web site)

These guys (apparently) do sell Axxis Deluxe Advanced brake pads (but more research is needed because of confusing and conflicting information on their web sites & on the phone):
- alloembmwparts.com (Note: Found out later they do NOT sell Axxis Deluxe Advanced; they sell PBR ULT & MetalMaster & Deluxe only)
- bavarian autosport ($45, confusing may be mintex, PN:MDB 1817D)
- bimmerpartswholesale.com ($50, confusing ad, PN:W0133-1620925)
- bmaparts.com ($65, confusing ad PBR Ceramic PN:BMW077021)
- bmwautobodypartstore.com ($70, PN:N1010-65135)
- catalog.brakewarehouse.com ($60)
- catalog.worldpac.com ($68)
- europartsdirect.com ($48, hard to tell brand & model, PN:BMW077021)
- performance.importrp.com ($41)
- ***********.com ($50)
- Turner Motorsport ($54 + $10 shipping = $64 telephone price only)
- Zeckausen (?)

Now I'm gonna take these top 12 suppliers, one by one, and find out if they REALLY sell what they "say" they're selling (or if they're spouting lavender instead of facts).

The confusion starts with the very first test (alphabetically):

- alloembmwparts.com does not list Axxis as available brake pads
- they have Bendix pads (but is Bendix the same as "Bendix Mintex" who makes the Axxis pads???)
- they have PBR pads (and PBR is another name for Axxis)
- but, the PBR pads are merely listed as "Deluxe"
- I can't tell if they are Deluxe Advanced or Deluxe Plus or just Deluxe
- I can only assume they are PBR Deluxe (which is what it says they are); and therefore they are not Axxis Deluxe Advanced.
- Therefore, I must strike them off the list.

Note: As an aside, notice they sell the PBR Ultimates and PBR Metal Masters, which, we've been told, I believe, are the same pads. Yet they sell for a different price!

Well, the second (alphabetically) on the list also needs to be stricken from the list of sellers of Axxis Deluxe Advanced brake pads.

- http://www.bavauto.com lists Mintex pads but not Axxis pads
- But wait, isn't the Axxis company also known as Bendix Mintex?
- So, um, wouldn't that make Mintex pads the same as Axxis pads?
- Who knows. I don't.

So I have to strike bavauto off the list of potential Axxis Deluxe Advanced brake pad suppliers.