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E39 (1997 - 2003)
The BMW 5-Series (E39 chassis) was introduced in the United States as a 1997 model year car and lasted until the 2004 when the E60 chassis was released. The United States saw several variations including the 525i, 528i, 530i and 540i. -- View the E39 Wiki

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  #276  
Old 07-02-2012, 06:36 AM
dvae74123 dvae74123 is offline
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Mein Auto: 98 528i
Oh ok cool. That's one of the steps I was going to do but I didn't know the that's what the aux pump was for.
Thanks
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  #277  
Old 07-02-2012, 07:46 AM
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Albo Albo is offline
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Great thread.. I just ponied up the dough for three gallons of NPG+C ...cooling system is the next maintenance item on my list.
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  #278  
Old 07-02-2012, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Albo View Post
Great thread.. I just ponied up the dough for three gallons of NPG+C ...cooling system is the next maintenance item on my list.
Na...
Not me...
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...112&highlight=

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=626202
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  #279  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:19 AM
Bwood1 Bwood1 is offline
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Mein Auto: 1999 528i, 2002 540i
Used Evans NPG+ for years

I posted this before, but I switched over my 99 528i to Evans many years ago when I did the cooling renovation (on recommendation of Bav Auto). I lost a bearing in my water pump in traffic and the car probably ran for 5 minutes before I could get to where I could stop the car. Temp. guage was pegged in the red. I had it taken to my indie thinking it was toast. All that was needed was to replace the water pump - not even change the coolant. Evans saved my engine! I have 218k on the car and it still runs great. Would not change and I set up my daughters 01 325i the same way.
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  #280  
Old 07-02-2012, 10:43 AM
pleiades pleiades is offline
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Mein Auto: '99 528i, M52TU w/stick
I've installed NPG+ in my 528i anyway and the car still does not heat up beyond 96 C or run any differently. Evans performs as advertised. I like what I read about the NPG+C being thinner but I already had the older product on the shelf.
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  #281  
Old 07-02-2012, 02:23 PM
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Albo Albo is offline
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I'll take the chance and let you know...
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  #282  
Old 07-05-2012, 08:38 PM
12volt 12volt is offline
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How hot is your bimmer coolant?

I have been driving my 1998 e39 since I purchased it with 39k miles on it. It has 63k on it now. Once in the fall of 2009 I accidently left the coolant cap off then a trip to SoCal and not one drop of coolant came out of the expansion tank!
In the past few years I have flushed out all the fluids except brake and PS fluid but that’s on my todo list. In spring of 2010 dumped what ever coolant was in there and simply replaced it with prestone 50/50…
Now after reading these forums for the past few weeks..
A) I’m scared my entire cooling system will explode any minute! :-0
B) Im thinking maybe quite possibly I drained evans coolant out in 2009??

What else could have withstood a drive over the grapevine grade to OC without even spilling one drop?? In 2009 I’d never heard of evans zero pressure coolant thus I would have probably left it in there.

So now I’d like to address the temp gauge in the dash. Can anyone confirm this is a real working temp gauge or is it a “dumbed down gauge” meaning it doesn’t move from center until you have a dead engine? All this talk talk talk on forums for years without an working temp gauge? Or are peeps running the car in OBDII test mode to display what the ECM reads from temp sensors?

I have modified both my other vehicles to show real time temps in the dash. My Mazdaspeed required a new sending unit and dash cluster mods. My Toyota required only the dash cluster mods to display real time analog coolant temps! Why do OEM’s not want owners to know whats going on under the hood?? Simply put.. bean counters and lawyers run big OEM’s not the racetrack marketing most car peeps drink up! Any non koolaid drinker knows OEM engineers can and have designed autos to go 300k miles plus! However… Their is no money in making cars last 30 years!! Sad fact
Nowadays there is even more to the longevity or lack thereof when you factor in the oil, gov, and OEM’s. Employing the engineers to design in failure! The clever computer programmer, meets bean counter, meets oil, gov and finally will it run long enough without killing anybody for the duration of the warranty period? All this while maximizing profits for the all mighty shareholder? Seriously a no maintenance car?!? A trans with no fill tube/dip stick?? Sad fact BMW engineers are not at the top of the food chain.. they engineer what they are paid to engineer. kay point made.

So has anyone “fixed” the broken analog temp gauge to see the coolant temps?

I want to simply buy a $130 bucks of evans magic coolant and fix everything as well as the next guy.. but I have learned a very expensive head gasket lesson with my Toyota and dummy temp gauges.. Therefore necessitating the temp gauges to actually display the temp?!?

Anyone do a temp gauge mod?? Why who would want at a glance at all times know what our coolant temps are?

If I call Evans they will swear up and down there stuff is safe… if I ask a BMW tech he will swear by the Bimmer blue koolaid that has paid his mortgage for years!
I don’t want another head gasket repair due to not knowing my engine coolant is hot even though Im staring at a centered temp gauge!
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  #283  
Old 07-19-2012, 11:17 PM
PanzerWagon PanzerWagon is offline
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12volt,
You can't just modify your cluster. The gauge you see is something between an analog gauge and an idiot light. The cluster's computerized and sophisticated and the whole thing is tied into your dme computer. If you screw it up, the car won't start and you'll have to buy a new one and get it coded to your car.

The thermostat stays closed to warm the engine on start and opens at the appropriate temp. The car turns one fan on when the temp reaches a certain point and another fan (or cranks fan speed up - I can't remember which) to bring the temp down when it hits the top of the normal operating temp range. If the car can't get it down, the needle goes up to red. The idea is that that it doesn't matter what the temp is in these cars and as long as its safe, its going to read normal. The car might go up and down 10 degrees C but it'll point at 12 noon the whole time. The needles in simpler cars aren't calibrated and no one knows what 3/4 means - whether it's close to boiling over or right in the middle of the optimal temp range - so their usefulness is debatable.

I doubt that you drained Evans coolant out of your low mileage car. I think it was likely the factory stuff. Your 6-cyl has a normal operating temp that's below 100c and that'll probably be why it didn't boil over on you. The v8s run 105 to 110c and will. Ask me how i know. The way I see it, this Evans solution is a more valuable one to us 540i drivers. IMHO

...and there's a lot of attitude up there ^^^^ for a guy with 2 posts. I'm just sayin'.
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  #284  
Old 07-20-2012, 12:06 AM
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doru doru is offline
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Here's a fact, and who wants to believe me good, who doesn't so be it.
I drove the car with and without NPG.
When I had the NPG, I was happy because of the "0" pressure. It's a great benefit. The pusher fan going on every time I arrived from work however, was an alarming sign for me. So as you know about that "dummy" unreliable temp gauge we have in our cars, I unlocked the OBC and drove with test #7 on. The "dummy" temp gauge moves to 12 o'clock around 72°C-75°C and stays there until the head gasket is very close to desintegrate. Then it start moving to the right. At what temperature? In short: I don't know. I didn't grenade my car yet and I don't intend to do this. But with NPG, in heavy stop-and-go traffic, the OBC temp was reading sometimes 102°C, which in my books is waaaay over the acceptable limit. Some people might be okay with that, but I'm not. The 3 l engine has narrower walls between cylinders than the 2.8l or 2.5l or 4l engine. So I don't take chances. Also, with NPG, in heavy traffic, the pusher fan and the regular fan were working overtime big, big time. I take a total cooling overhaul over an exploded fan anytime. A new hood is more expensive, not to talk about overheated T-stats (electronically controlled jokers), gaskets etc. With those 2 fans working overtime in tandem, the OBC temp was dropping to....78°C. That's a huuuge drop from 102°C, ja?

Since I have the blue cool aid, however, the max temp I see is 96°C, and this only BRIEFLY. The 102°C was staying on for way too long. And the temp gauge was bang on in the middle. You might say: what's 6°C more? Ha, ha..
Well, only 4°C above 96°C is the boiling point at sea level... And what about 105°C? That's only 3 °C above the 102°C experienced, right? At 105°C she starts pegging in the red, folks. The i6 at least.

In both cases I had the Stewart high performance WP on the car, which compared to your guys NPG setup, was pumping 20% more than the stock pump. And probably should cool a tad better. Which was not the case.

So unless one has a REAL temp gauge on the dash, you probably should NOT say that NPG is running cool. Because it's NOT. But again, in hindsight I'm sorry I wasn't smart enough to video capture all those things. But I know that even than there would people out there saying that all this is fabrication etc.

There, I can't believe I let it out.
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  #285  
Old 07-20-2012, 05:12 AM
WDRAcing WDRAcing is offline
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If you want to measure AND datalog your temps, or any other ECU input for that matter, just use the ELM327 with bluetooth and the Torque APP. Total cost is under 25 bucks and it lets you see ALL of the sensors in real time.

You can also set alarms on ANY sensor input. Why more people don't use this is beyond me. This was one of the first things I purchased after I picked up my 540 and it is an awesome tool that every mechanic should have. Compatible with any OBDII vehicle. If you really want to know what your temps are doing, you need several days worth of data to compare. With the Torque APP, not only does it show you everything in real time, and datalog for you, it sends the datalogs to your email.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/V1-5-ELM327-...item27c612d314

http://torque-bhp.com/

You're handicapping yourself by not having this.
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  #286  
Old 07-20-2012, 05:25 AM
Whorse Whorse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WDRAcing View Post
If you want to measure AND datalog your temps, or any other ECU input for that matter, just use the ELM327 with bluetooth and the Torque APP. Total cost is under 25 bucks and it lets you see ALL of the sensors in real time.

You can also set alarms on ANY sensor input. Why more people don't use this is beyond me. This was one of the first things I purchased after I picked up my 540 and it is an awesome tool that every mechanic should have. Compatible with any OBDII vehicle. If you really want to know what your temps are doing, you need several days worth of data to compare. With the Torque APP, not only does it show you everything in real time, and datalog for you, it sends the datalogs to your email.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/V1-5-ELM327-...item27c612d314

http://torque-bhp.com/

You're handicapping yourself by not having this.
What more does that do than unlocking the obc Test menu? I'm pretty sure the m62tu doesn't have an oil temp sensor, does that thing you have give you oil temp readings?

Even when i use INPA or EasyDIS i don't see any readings for oil temp.
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87 325 300k (project for life) aka 1BADETA/Christine
00 540is 6spd 214k (daily driver) Timing chain guides just failed. In the middle of a full rebuild instead of repair. I wonder how much longer it would of gone if i just repaired it.
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  #287  
Old 07-20-2012, 06:18 AM
WDRAcing WDRAcing is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whorse View Post
What more does that do than unlocking the obc Test menu? I'm pretty sure the m62tu doesn't have an oil temp sensor, does that thing you have give you oil temp readings?

Even when i use INPA or EasyDIS i don't see any readings for oil temp.
I've never unlocked the OBC test menu so I can't compare. I just went and checked, no oil temp. Which makes sense if there isn't a temp sensor

The Torque APP does all kinds of great things aside from being very simple to use. The layout alone makes it worth the purchase imho.



You can set any of those gauges to display whatever you want to look at, or customize several different screens. It will graph data for you, so you can compare rpm vs temperature, or temperature vs engine load. Any number of things really.

It also does cool stuff like measure HP, G's, 1/4 times and lap times. You can plot the routes you took around a course and compare the times for each lap to see which route was the quickest.

To me, it's probably the best $25 I've spent in a long time. It's worth the price just to play with.

Setting warning alarms is a pretty cool thing to have. That way you are free to drive while the device records the data for you and will alert you when you reach whatever predetermined alarm value you set. Like water temp. Wouldn't it be nice to have an alarm go off well before you overheated?

Last edited by WDRAcing; 07-20-2012 at 06:19 AM. Reason: Edited for grammar - clarity
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  #288  
Old 07-20-2012, 09:15 AM
crazy4trains crazy4trains is offline
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Will it display in real time the transmission fluid temperature? That would be really helpful during a fluid change/topoff.
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  #289  
Old 07-20-2012, 09:29 AM
WDRAcing WDRAcing is offline
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I'll check, but I don't remember seeing that as one of the items listed.

The temperature of the fluid isn't all that important imho. It's just to provide for thermal expansion. If you fill it until it's coming out of the servicing hole, then drive it until it reaches operating temp, when you open the port the next time it will over flow some. It's hard to fill a BMW tranny up to the wrong level since there is no dip stick servicing port. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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  #290  
Old 07-20-2012, 09:56 AM
WDRAcing WDRAcing is offline
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No trans temp.

Sent from my SCH-I405 using Bimmer App
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  #291  
Old 01-04-2014, 01:40 PM
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chiefwej chiefwej is offline
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Mein Auto: 2003 540i/6 //m-tech
Just an update for anyone still following the discussion:
I have now competed FOUR full summers here in Tucson, where a "nice summer day" is about 105 degrees. No problems, no engine melt down, no overheating, no loss of coolant. I keep a gallon of coolant in the trunk, just in case, but each time I check the level, it's always the same.

Use what you want, but I am still very satisfied with my switch to Evans NPG.
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Last edited by chiefwej; 01-04-2014 at 03:30 PM.
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  #292  
Old 01-04-2014, 01:40 PM
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chiefwej chiefwej is offline
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Sorry, duplicate post.

Last edited by chiefwej; 01-04-2014 at 03:32 PM.
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  #293  
Old 01-04-2014, 01:47 PM
WDRAcing WDRAcing is offline
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I appreciate the update, thank you very much. I'm down for the winter and have been debating on what maintenance I'm going to do.

WD
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  #294  
Old 01-24-2014, 07:25 AM
Tcnj Tcnj is offline
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Great info....

Last edited by Tcnj; 01-26-2014 at 05:49 AM.
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  #295  
Old 01-27-2014, 09:52 AM
joeyvaz joeyvaz is offline
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I'm also going to try this out. Waiting for the warmer weather so I can drain, flush, and fill. Thanks for all the information in this thread.
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  #296  
Old 02-18-2014, 05:17 AM
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bluebee bluebee is offline
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Wink

For the record, this was posted today:
> E39 (1997 - 2003) > Evans WATERLESS COOLANT

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryingreenback View Post
DOES ANYONE HAVE EXPERIENCE WITH THIS PRODUCT? GOOD OR BAD?

TOUTED BY JAY LENO FOR HIS CARS. NO MSDS SHEETS AVAILABLE, BUT IT APPEARS TO BE PROPYLENE GLYCOL, AS OPPOSED TO THE NORMAL ETHYLENE GLYCOL.
See also:
E39 Engine coolant: phosphate free (for Europe's high-mineral-content water), amine & nitrite/nitrate free (for USA long-life requirements), & low-silicate or silicate free (for Japan requirements) 50:50 mixture of ethylene glycol & water (the Bentleys say distilled water (Bentley 020-11), aka de-mineralized or de-ionized water, some call it purified water, and the BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:56 specifies water with a pH from 6.5 to 8.0, maximum total hardness of 3.6 mmol Ca++/liter, maximum chloride content 100 mg/liter, and maximum sulphate content 100mg/liter; interestingly the BMW TIS says "potable tap water usually fulfills these requirements". EPA reports show San Jose & NYC tap water easily fulfill these requirements. The BMW TIS expressly states additives are not helpful and are not recommended. BMW lists a score of recommended coolants in their BMW AG TIS 12.11.2007 18:55 which meet the BMW N 600 69.0 standard, some of which are BMW PN:81.22.9.407.454 1.5-liter; BMW PN:88.88.6.900.316 1 gallon; Castrol Anti-Freeze NF; BASF Glysantin Protect Plus G48, & Havoline AFC (BD04); but most of which are not easily found in the USA. Many Bimmerfesters recommend BMW coolant; however other Bimmerfesters recommend Prestone Extended Life 5/150, Valvoline Zerex G-05, and Service Pro Universal Formula. Others (e.g., chiefwej, aioros), have tested Evans NPG+ but be aware propanol entails a different maintenance philosophy than the aqueous fluids listed above and is not compatible with them. [Total Volume: 1997 I6=10.5 quarts (2.6 gallons), 1997 V8=12.0 quarts (3.0 gallons), 1998-2002 I6=11.1 quarts (2.8 gallons), 1998-2002 V8=12.7 quarts (3.2 gallons), 1997-2002 V8 with latent heater=13.5 quarts (3.4 gallons)]. Prestone says the only reason for phosphate free is the extremely high mineral content of water in Europe - and that in the USA, it's not needed. Replacement Interval: Every three years (Bentley page 020-9) or every four years (aforementioned BMW AG TIS) starting from date of manufacture (except for M-Power vehicles which have 3-year intervals). Note: Mixing BMW-recommended coolant brands is permissible; but mixing types is not permissible unless it's an emergency.
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See also: E39 Bestlinks & How to easily find what you need
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  #297  
Old 02-18-2014, 05:38 AM
Whorse Whorse is offline
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I'm 40k miles in on Evans NPG+ no problem other than when it got really cold here i had to add a 1/2 cup, looked like the big pipe that goes across the Vally pan sprung a spontaneous leak at the rubber seal. very weird happened once on the coldest day every since installing this stuff. once i started the car it hasn't leaked since. the valley pan is showing signs of micro leaks. I dont know if that's cause of the seal that comes with the new pan was bad or the NPG+ likes to seep??
I torqued the valley pan to spec and it seemed a little to tight for me. maybe the seal got squashed to much?

The other tiny problem using NPG+ cause is still there. My oil temps run 4-8 degrees higher than normal with bmw coolant. confirmed on 4 of my friends with e39 540s
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Queens NY
BMWCCA# 186796
86 325es (wrecked by careless driver)
87 325 300k (project for life) aka 1BADETA/Christine
00 540is 6spd 214k (daily driver) Timing chain guides just failed. In the middle of a full rebuild instead of repair. I wonder how much longer it would of gone if i just repaired it.
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  #298  
Old 02-18-2014, 05:38 AM
Whorse Whorse is offline
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Location: Queens, Ny
 
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Mein Auto: e30, e39
I'm 40k miles in on Evans NPG+ no problem other than when it got really cold here i had to add a 1/2 cup, looked like the big pipe that goes across the Vally pan sprung a spontaneous leak at the rubber seal. very weird happened once on the coldest day every since installing this stuff. once i started the car it hasn't leaked since. the valley pan is showing signs of micro leaks. I dont know if that's cause of the seal that comes with the new pan was bad or the NPG+ likes to seep??
I torqued the valley pan to spec and it seemed a little to tight for me. maybe the seal got squashed to much?

The other tiny problem using NPG+ cause is still there. My oil temps run 4-8 degrees higher than normal with bmw coolant. confirmed on 4 of my friends with e39 540s
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Andreas
Queens NY
BMWCCA# 186796
86 325es (wrecked by careless driver)
87 325 300k (project for life) aka 1BADETA/Christine
00 540is 6spd 214k (daily driver) Timing chain guides just failed. In the middle of a full rebuild instead of repair. I wonder how much longer it would of gone if i just repaired it.
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  #299  
Old 02-18-2014, 10:09 AM
dholland17 dholland17 is offline
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Mein Auto: 97 540i
Whorse,
I converted a few months ago when I picked up my new to me 540i and I replaced the valley pan gasket (URO) and seals and developed a valley pan gasket leak too. I have not taken it apart yet but suspect I over torqued it too. Did you take yours apart yet or just leaving it? I did not chase the threads when I replaced it with a tap but will do so this time. I think it is only 7ft/lb or something to low like that.
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  #300  
Old 02-22-2014, 09:42 AM
guberot guberot is offline
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Mein Auto: 2002 540i6
Converted to NPG+

thanks to this thread I have converted 540i/6 to Evans Waterless coolant. I have an ELM327 with Torque app on my Android to monitor the coolant temp sensor.
So, before switching over to waterless, the normal BMW blue coolant was reading around 221-228 F. After installing Evans NPG+, I was getting the same reading, as expected. The coolest part is, I'm able to open the radiator cap right after arriving home to let the residue water in the radiator to evaporate from the expansion tank. I'm at 1 month with Evans NPG+.
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